BlueShoe
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Posts posted by BlueShoe
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I generally agree. But Grigson isn't saying "we're looking to move back." My interpretation of his comment is that he's willing to move back if he's not in love with the value of the players there at #24, because getting the added pick would make it worth it. I don't think he is or should be worried about any player's feeling about not being drafted at #24, and instead being drafted at #30 or #40 or wherever. Be glad you got drafted, and get to work.
I agree that it's hard to have a strong feeling about what's going to happen in this draft. I think we'll see a couple of trades within the top ten, and then everyone's projections go out the window. The board changes drastically. I'm not one who is going to come back and say "I knew it all along." I'm admitting now, and have been for weeks, that I have NO IDEA what Grigson is going to do at #24. Him trading up would be the most surprising, given his comments and given the depth in this draft, but I suppose it's possible.
We are pretty much the same reason here, I just believe that I picked up on a tell-tell sign with Grigson. We will find out soon though. I was able to do this with Polian as well; however, Polian took a few extra years. To this day, I would not want to play poker with Polian for money. I believe Grigson is going to be much easier to read.
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You really think that player even knows what Grigson said in a 30 minute interview? Teams trade back every year. They select a player in a lower spot that they could've taken in a higher spot. Your argument in each case then is the team has just insulted their new player.
Have you ever heard some player selected say that the team who picked him insulted him by trading back first? I've been following the draft for more than 40 years and I've never heard a player say that.
I've heard players selected lower than they thought they'd go say they want to make every team that passed on them regret their decision..... but I've never heard of a player say the team that picked them insulted them.
They do not make statements like that and then trade back. He has painted himself into a box. He didn't have to say anything about trading back, but he did. Why would he tip his real hand? He wouldn't. Its a week until the draft so don't believe anything you hear or read.
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And yet, he wasn't just taken in the first round, he was taken 1st overall.
My point is when it comes to the draft, everyone has an opinion. There are lots of articles proclaiming this and that. Heck, Skip Bayless still thinks Tim Tebow is a starting, winning NFL quarterback. Even though 32 teams say otherwise....
Just because someone offers an opinion doesn't mean that opinion carries weight. Even an ESPN opinion.
Even on a message board. lol
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Really?
Have their been internet fan message boards for 20 years?
I didn't find one until 1999. You found one in 1993? Really?
Yep.
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After what statement?
Practically nothing any GM says in a press interview locks him into anything......
Grigson basically said, if he doesn't love the guy at 24, he's willing to trade back. I think that gives him all the flexibility he needs.....
So lets say Grigson moves back 6 spots and then makes a pick. I am sure the player he takes is going to feel welcomed after Grigson said he is not taking a player at #24 unless he can feel proud of it. Yeah, new player, we didn't like you at #24 but you grew on us at #30. LOL
Not the way to start a good relationship. If you don't think players are paying attention to things like this then you haven't been paying attention the past 30 drafts. I have.
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That's a different topic. I'm not arguing where Woods should go, or whether we should draft him. This draft and the board is all over the place, and I'm done trying to predict where anyone will be picked. I just used Woods as an example.
But Grigson very plainly said he's willing to trade down, assuming he's not excited about anyone there at #24. Most people take that to mean that he's willing to trade down. You're somehow getting the exact opposite impression, which is weird. There's not a lot to decode.
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I wonder if you read anything beyond where you want me to stop.
You can't believe what teams say about the draft a few weeks from the draft. I will agree that I have no idea where these players are going to fall this year. Usually I am very good at predicting most of the first round players taken, but this year it is very tough to figure out. It is more of a guessing game than I can ever remember.
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The thing I get tired the most as the draft approaches is the endless speculation. Grigson proved last year that he knows how to draft based on his experience as a scout and watching a lot of video material. I believe he knows what he is doing, he's got certain principles he follows, which is good. Therefore this year I just can't wait to get to the draft and see what Grigson gets out of the cookie jar.
I agree. That said, I like to have an opinion about what is going on. That is what a message board is for, even though some members think they own all of the opinions. Don't worry though, if we trade up or stay put then all of the people arguing with me will say they knew it all along. I have seen this ugly trend for 20 years on Colts boards.
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so did Polian and/or Irsay do all of the other scheming and game-planning too? Caldwell wasn't exactly a total rookie head coach. they'd announced Caldwell would be Dungy's succesor well over a year prior to hiim taking over so he was being "trained" by Dungy during that time about game management, game-planning etc etc.
Tell us something we don't know about Caldwell. He was a puppet head and horrible game manager. There is no way Caldwell was left to make that decision on his own. I would be surprised if he had any real input on the decision.
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Yes Caldwell - THE HEAD COACH - had a say in EVERYTHING that was going on.
Whats going on in this thread? Are these actual football fans speaking?
Maybe you're one of the majority on this board who believed Polian and Caldwell would not be fired if we only won a few games in 2011. Sounds about right to me.
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Trading down is a routine occurence in the NFL draft.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, he likes Robert Woods, but believes he'll be there at #40. He can trade down from #24, draft Woods....
I just want to stop you right there. If Grigson believes that Woods is the right pick for us then he will take him at #24. GMs rarely take chances like you are talking about unless there are several players left on the board that they want. Woods is a possible, and we could even go as far to say, likely 1st round pick. He is one of the guys I believe is on our radar at #24. If he is a guy that Grigson wants, and he is there then why gamble it away? He wouldn't. He would just make the pick.
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yes, I do. I don't believe he was just a closed-mouth puppet like many people claim. He was the head coach, and he was essentially a clone of Dungy. I don't buy that Polian much, if any, say in in-game decisions.
Well I disagree. It was either Polian or Irsay making that decision. Not a rookie head coach.
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yet teams do it every year
They do not do it after they make a comment like that. Don't believe anything you hear from teams the last few weeks of the draft. We aren't trading down.
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Why is there no option 3?
3. It was Caldwell's idea, seeing as how he was the HC and the one responsible for scheming, strategy and GAME-PLANNING. He's a disciple of Tony Dungy, who has said many times that he prefers to rest starters.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20081224/SPORTS15/812240382/Resting-starters-right-thing-do
People like to call Polian's schemes stupid, but those were Dungy's schemes, not Polian's. Neither Buffalo nor Carolina played a tampa 2 defense during Polian's tenures with those teams. Indy did because that was the scheme that Dungy and Monte Kiffin came up with. Therefore Polian simply brought in players that would work with Dungy's scheme.
People like to blame Polian for resting the starters, but what players play and how much they play is overwhelmingly up to the coaching staff, not the general manager.
I was as ready as anybody for Polian to be replaced and I was ecstatic when he was. However my reasons for wanting him gone were the contracts he made, some very questionable draft choices and the fact that he was a horrible scout of offensive linemen, which he has since admitted to. I think some people hold Dungy to such high regard that they can't put any of the blame on him, and Caldwell was obviously just a puppet without a mind of his own even though he had pretty much the exact same demeanor, both on and off the field, as Dungy and he "grew up" in the NFL under the tutelage of Dungy.
You really believe Caldwell had a say in anything? LOL
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This is strange to me.
Grigson's words: We’re going to probably look to trading out if there’s a player there that we feel is just OK.
How do you translate that to "no intentions of trading back"?
If he moves back, then what does that say about his first pick? I am sure players like to come to camp knowing they were the "OK" pick. No GM in his right mind would make that statement and then do it.
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We don't have the ammunition to trade up.... just a 1/3/4 in the first 5 rounds....
So, if we offer a 1 and a 3 to trade up then we'll have no other picks until the late 4th round.
I will be beyond shocked if that happens. This is a draft that is tailor made for Grigson. I don't see the draft ending with the Colts standing pat and simply using their picks at 1/3/4. Just 3 players in 5 rounds? Not for Ryan Grigson. Not in this draft. I just don't see it.
I think this draft is perfect for him..... perfect.
There are several options. I am not saying we will trade up. I am saying that I believe we will trade up before we trade down.
For example, lets imagine that cooper falls to 15. If the Colts are high on him (and might be), it would be worth giving up our 3rd with NO to secure him, over taking an extra 4th to move back to 30 and pick up another 4th.
This thing can go down several ways, but I don't see us trading back just because we are starting off down two picks in the first 5 rounds.
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YES.....
Likely that.... the only other possibility is that the offers to trade back weren't right. Meaning, too far back for Grigson's liking or not enough of the right draft picks.... something like that....
But I think the leading choice would be, if we stay at 24 and use the pick, it's someone that Grigson and his staff really like....
I agree. Which is why I think we would trade up before we trade down. If his players start disappearing off the board then I can see him get aggressive and move up about 5 spots or so.
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You may be right...
He may havelearned a thing or two from some of Phillies mistakes too...
That is absolutely something we have to consider, and I have. They made some good moves trading up in Philly.
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he said we would be willing to trade back. you are the one not comprehending.
He said a lot of stuff, but that one I am not buying, because it doesn't fit with everything else he said, or has done.
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teams do it every single year. if there isn't s player that he feels is a first round talent, then he will look to trade out of that pick. we have very few picks. i could see him trading out of the first
There is a difference between Bill Polian GMs of the NFL and Grigson GMs. I think fans do not understand that yet, but if I am correct then we will all see soon enough just how differently they approach the draft. Grigson is going to be aggressive. Just my two cents.
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You may be right, I get that...
Wouldn't say trading back as settling though, would look at trading back as an aggressive move to add multiple players that the team is high on...
as I said earlier I will be surprised if Grigson trades up in the draft, but I am always surprised on draft day so really I won't be surprised...
We have to remember that Grigson comes from a draft team in Philly that was always very aggressive in trading up in the first round, when a player they wanted was in sight. Last year we had the first pick so we didn't see it. His comments have me believing he will be very aggressive.
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That's part of the draft. Everyone is clamoring for Xavier Rhodes, but there is no guarantee that he will be there. We like to assume that we have a general idea of who will fall where. What I'm saying is that if a player that we want has a second round grade, would it really make sense for us to grab him in the first, even though we don't have a second? No! I'd rather have two project players because we traded out than have a player that we took just because we were scared to lose him
We don't even know if Rhodes is on our boards, or if CB is as important to the Colts draft team as people on this board believe it is. It is all just speculation form fans. I have watched drafts for 30 years, and teams do not trade back and take chances on players they want. When it is in the line of sight, they pull the trigger. Grigsons team has shown us aggression and I do not expect for that to change now. I believe we will move up before we move down, but my guess is that we are staying put at #24.
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I understand this line of thinking, but he can still move back in the draft, say he got guys that can help the team then just throw in the word value somewhere in the press conference and be fine...
Buck,
I don't see Grigson and company as the type who settles for anyone. They are very aggressive in getting who they want, and have proven that. Nothing about this regimes personality is about trading back and settling. They are attackers and will move up before trading down. Just my two cents.
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(this isn't the post i disagree with, but it was the latest one, so i quoted it)
I'm 100% with Dustin and TK here. If Grigson has a player in mind that he really WANTS, but isn't a great value at #24, I could easily see him trading down to (since this has been thrown around) 30 to get said player. We'd swap picks with the Falcons, and also gain at LEAST a 3rd rounder in the process, making the value of taking said player much better for us.
GM's pretty much know what the other teams needs and boards are, and trading down just 6 spaces wouldn't be a very large risk at all. Of course, there's ALWAYS a risk, but... I really wouldn't be surprised to see us trade down as far as the top 15 of the 2nd to try and capitalize on the mid-round talent of this draft.
Trading up would be an absolute shock to me...
I have to disagree with just about everything you said. ;)
We would not receive a 3rd round pick to move form 24 to 30. More like a 4th. It is just not worth the risk of losing a player we covet. I don't know who all of the players are that we have on our board. Only the Colts draft room does. I would be shocked if we trade down.
Grigson Speaks
in Colts Football
Posted
Sure. Do you feel better now? I don't think that smacking yourself in the head is helpful, but maybe in your opinion it works. lol