EastStreet
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So looking at the poll trend after a day, C or C- on value, C or C+ on need/fit. Pretty consistent with all the talking heads.
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7 hours ago, krunk said:
With all of Funchess supposed "dropping problems" and "drop rate" that you guys want to keep on bringing up I say this. In Funchess best year he had 8 TD. Nobody else you guys were talking about bringing in here got in the end zone that many times. Not Humphries(who doesn't really get in the end zone much other than last year), not Cole Beasley, not Tyrell Williams(who is supposed to be this big deep threat). In his 2018 he scored 1 less TD(4) than Humphries, and Tyrell Willams and he only had 44 catches in a down year. Funchess 2018 numbers were basically on par with Tyrell Williams in terms of yards, catches and TD but the reaction would have been totally different had we paid big or bigger money to get Williams. I haven't even seen where the Colts even contacted Adam Humphries so I can't even say if there was ever any interest. I saw some brief flirtation with Cole Beasley, but they passed on him. Williams is still out there but I doubt he will be a Colt.
Give me the guy who can score the points, make contested catches and is a noticeable mismatch on almost any DB or linebacker. Pairing this guy with Luck in this offense with this coach and OC I'm betting he gets closer to that 8 TD figure from a couple years ago. His supposed dropping problems haven't kept him out of the end zone. I don't think he's any worse than Ebron and I don't believe the coaches saw it that way either. That's why they got him and passed on the other guys.
It's worth mentioning, that in 2017 when he had 800 yards and 8 TDs, he was WR1. While the TD production was great (due to RZ targets), his play between the 20s was sub par. 800 yards is at the bottom of WR1 play. That combined with the drops is why they drafted DJ Moore last year as a new WR1. DJ went on to pass Funchess in his first/rookie year by 240 yards with pretty much the same amount of targets. In addition, Curtis Samuel in his second year had similar yards in 2018, with 25ish less targets.
In short, he didn't work out as WR1, and younger guys were challenging for WR2 targets/yards. That's why Carolina passed on him. I truly hope Devin turns it around and excels with Luck tossing him the ball in Reich's system. I absolutely hope he balls out and helps us take things to another level. I just don't see him as a long term legit WR2. I see him has depth, and an additional RZ threat. Would love it if he proves me wrong. Regardless I'll be cheering for him to be a beast.
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3 minutes ago, MFT5 said:
if most “folks” grade the deal as poor that implies they have a better grasp on the teams construct than ballard does. will this thread void the contract lol. if it’s not a flier on a player what is it. losing interest en this by the second bye.
oh, you're one of the "ballard can't be questioned" guys. you should start a fan club.
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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
GusFring had a huge steak and mashed potatoes and is laughing in his sleep right now
with this wonderful thread 
Gus eats chicken brother.
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1 minute ago, MFT5 said:
not even finna read that. if yu think 1yr 10-13 is the same as 2+ at that same rate is the same. you win enjoy this worthless thread you started lol
lol. i never said they were the same. but you act like 10-13M for one year is nothing. a flier...
anyway most folks grade the deal as a poor value. i'm sure you don't care. like you said, you don't have to agree. neither do it.
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12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
It will be tough for him to hit 1000 with TY and Ebron on the team but I can see 800. Doyle will be back too. Luck loves to spread the ball around.
I agree (tough hitting 1000). i picked 600-800 range.
At WR2, we were WR committee last year. our next best (after TY), was ranked 99th (Rogers). After that Grant at 129, and Inman at 143. That's bad considering most in the top 10 of Os have 2, 3, 4, or even 5 guys in the top 64.
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4 minutes ago, MFT5 said:
lol this is my opinion, i don’t need you to agree.
top 20 money to me means incorporating financial responsibility. does his contract make it hard to operate. No. Would it make a difference if we gave him the same contract with more years attached, Yes.
truthfully my opnion is also yu want attention. his contract being that it’s only for one year implies it’s value and downside. Specifically if he plays well, he gets years added, he plays avg. he’s probably gone. It doesn’t matter either way.
No you shouldn’t have expectation. it’s called a flier. Expectation is reserved for commitment
lol. shouldn't have expectation. pretty funny.
you talk about financial responsibility. no one invests 10M short or long term without expectation. and it doesn't matter if he plays poorly? i'm sure ownership shares this view lol.
in terms of ease of operation, not sure what your point is. just because we have a ton of cap doesn't mean you invest recklessly. if you think Irsay will have zero expectations, or is fine with fliers, you'd be wrong. i'm sure Ballard has a plan that he communicated to Irsay. we'll see.
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2 minutes ago, KB said:
If he hits all of those incentives then most likely he had a pretty good season and most likely be would be worth it. Would of course need to see the terms.
If he hist his incentive at 1000 yards (which is basically a top 20 production target), then he'd be paid top 15 for the year. I'd love to pay him that extra 3M. I just don't think we will.
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1 minute ago, MFT5 said:
are there any commitments beyond 2019 ??
we are paying him top 20 in 2019. yes or no.
should we have no expectations or opinions on value just because he's not under contract beyond 2019? good grief. would you pay iphone contract/rental prices for a flip phone this year, even though you're not tied to it in 2020?
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9 minutes ago, MFT5 said:
we didn’t pay him top 20 money there’s no commitment en the grand scheme he’s a lottery ticket
from an average $/year, we absolutely paid him top 20 money. If he hits the incentive and makes 13M, He'll be top 15 money. hell, he's already listed as the 20th on many sites...
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was torn between C and D in terms of Needs.
C+ lol
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He's a Colt now, so all of us want him to succeed!
But how do you feel about financial, value, and "needs" aspects of the acquisition?
Opinions are awesome, but try to stay fact and data, and stay away from the whole "Ballard can't make a bad decision" sad song.
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58 minutes ago, BOTT said:
I don't need old combine reports to tell me....I have seen them both play in the NFL. If we went strictly by old combine numbers and college scouting reports Coby fleener is a freak athlete, but we all know he isn't.
well if you've watched them both (I see a lot of the Panthers down here in the South unfortunately), then you know. he's exactly what he was in college. huge drop problem, and not dynamic. and here's a look at advanced stats since both have been playing......
2018
Metric / Ebron Ranking / Funchess Ranking
Air Yards / 3 / 39
YAfterCatch / 14 / 113
YPerRec / 16 / 62
YPerTarget / 25 / 81
TotalTargetDist / 3 / 41
AvTargetDist / 6 / 36
Catch Rate / 34 / 84
Cushion / 3 / 88
TargetSeparation / 10 / 91
Funchess should improve with Luck, but he's got a long way to go to be playing at the comparative level of Ebron. HUGE disparity in advanced stats from a position perspective. At 25-30lbs heavier, Ebron is playing at elite level for a TE. Funchess is outside of the top 50 in production and most advanced stats at WR.
YAC, Cushion, Separation is a pretty big indicator of athleticism.... no?
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7 hours ago, Nate! said:
Think will be shocked now if don’t draft a WR in R1 or R2.
Think some of the hate on the move is overblown. It’s a lot of money no doubt at max value considering his past record, but risk is completely mitigated. If he blows up to exceeding value greatly, can lock it up. It matches value and Colts decide to let walk, comp pick potential.
I'll be an unhappy camper too, as most will be I'd bet.
If they get a true WR2 in the draft, that can extend the D, and take double coverage off TY, nobody will care about the money spent on Funchess.
7 hours ago, ztboiler said:It costs more to rent than own. Always has always will. Yet...
Some assets are better to rent than own. We’re renting this one.
yup. 20-30% premium on 1 year rental deals.
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33 minutes ago, Stephen said:
His 40 time is not my concern. Can he catch and get separation.
his stats say he drops it a lot (going back to even his college days). his advanced states aren't all that good relative to separation.
i just hope luck throwing him balls helps improve in both of those areas. i just don't want to move production from Ebron to Funchess. I want Funchess to get true WR2 production, and help keep TY out of double coverage.
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4 hours ago, BOTT said:
Funchess is more athletic than Ebron
sorry, disagree. within their position groups, Ebron is absolutely more athletic. And the fact that Ebron is 25-30 pounds heavier, speaks volumes.
And sorry, not buying UM's pro Day. Grading them out Ebron was a 6.4 (that's close to "potential NFL PB" vs Funchess 5.64 "potential NFL starter". That's a pretty decent gap in ratings. Ebron was THE top performer at his position group in both the 40 and broad jump. Funchess has a decent vertical, but that in no way translates into ability to high point balls. I've watched both (Funchess all the way back to UM days), and Ebron is much closer to "Freak Status". Not saying he's a bonafide freak athlete, but much closer than Funchess.
Below are NFL.com's scouting report on both.
From NFL.com, who said he was a "stock down" losers at the combine.
Michigan WR Devin Funchess: He started his Michigan career as a tight end and moved to wide receiver this season. But he clocked just 4.7 in the 40 Saturday, which was disappointing. He remains a matchup problem because of his size (6-4 1/4, 232), but those expecting a 40 time in the high 4.5s/low 4.6s left shaking their heads. A wide receiver running a 4.7, no matter how tall, is disconcerting.
Here's from DF's draft profile
Pass-catching is labored. Allows throws into his frame and catches back half of football at times. Tagged with 20 drops over last three seasons. Isn't a lock to high-point a throw and doesn't attack throws. Won't win enough 50/50 throws. Tends to show monotone, one-note play speed. Hard to find a second gear on tape. Gears down into cuts and slow to accelerate out of breaks.
BOTTOM LINE
Has mismatch-caliber size, but lack of vertical talent and below-average hands might negate the size to an extent. Funchess was used outside and inside at Michigan and had success from the slot. He has the feel of a hybrid player who can be a big guy at wide receiver or a mismatch nightmare as a move tight end with more weight on his rangy frame.
vs Ebron's combine reports.
Outstanding athletic ability and receiving skills. Threatens every level. Advanced route runner. Releases cleanly and accelerates into patterns. Pierces the seam and is a mismatch vs. man coverage -- regularly bested defensive backs. Terrific balance, agility and body control. Catches cleanly off his frame. Makes one-handed grabs look routine. Big catch radius. Catches on the move and has an extra gear to pile up yards. Had 875 yards receiving as a junior, breaking Vernon Davis' ACC record. Will be a 21-year-old rookie.
BOTTOM LINE
Highly athletic, highly productive "F" tight end dripping with upside and mismatch capability. Ebron might not be in the "freak" category, but his speed, movement skills, hands and run-after-catch skill puts him in the next tier, as he has ample ability to be a playmaker at the next level.
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18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
I don't have to sell. I'm not a fan of the signing. I'm not a fan of Funchess.
I ***am*** a fan of Ballard's. He's earned it and then some. I don't think he has anything to apologize for. He's not perfect, and he owns his mistakes. Which is more than most GM's do.
You Bill Belichick, the defensive mastermind, has a relatively low success rates on drafting defensive backs. Plenty of quality picks of his have flamed out. It's been written about.
Everyone makes mistakes in the personnel game. It comes with the job.
When Ballard starts making bigger mistakes and not just little mistakes, then we'll have something to talk about. Otherwise, this barely registers on my meter.
Again. Not a fan of Funchess. Not a fan of the signing. But I admire Ballard and so should all of us and with good reasoning.
I love Ballard. He's a F'ing rock star coming off of last year's draft. Doesn't mean I have to like everything he does. To me, it doesn't fill the WR2 need, and spending top 20 WR money on a guy 81st in production is silly. I wasn't a fan of some of the higher dollar and longer term options (like TW), but at least that would have filled a need, and had better production.
I really hope this works out. Even if he only hits 800 yards, I'll be very happy. 800 yards is top 30ish money. 1000 yards is top 20 money, which is what we are paying him. But if he hits that, he's actually getting paid top 15 money (which top 15 production is 1200).
In short, I think he'll improve simply by getting better balls thrown to him. But, his snap count and opportunity are a huge question marks. If we just end up lowering Ebron's snap count or production to get DF more balls, it's not really a plus.
If he works out at the true WR2, I'll be very happy. I certainly won't be cheering against him, I just don't think he hits 800+ while not taking away production from Ebron.
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18 hours ago, akcolt said:
Funchess 4.47 40 Alshon 4.48
Funchess ran an electronic 4.7 twice at the combine. UM Pro Day had him 4.47 and 4.53. Keep in mind that College Pro Days have been historically very "generous" to their players. There's a reason that 90+% of players turn out better time at Pro Days than the NFL Combine.
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40 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:
I take it you aren’t a fan of the Funchess signing?
no. overpaid. top 20 pay for being the 81st WR in YPG... outside of the top 50 in all advanced stats. poor catch rate, not as athletic as Ebron who is 20+Lbs heavier. the biggest thing though, is he just doesn't fill the WR2 need (someone that can extend the D, and take double coverage pressure off TY).
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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:
It's a good deal because when the rest of the receivers that Ballard might have preferred had offers far higher than Ballard wanted to pay, Ballard signed the best receiver he could for one year.
Not much of a sell. But there it is. The bar on Funchess is low. $10 Mill doesn't hurt us for one year. As you yourself noted, if he hits all incentives we'll be happy to pay the extra $3 mill.
I hope we'll have better options next year.
Come on lol.... you did nothing to explain why this is a good deal. Zero fact or detail, or any reasoning of substance. You made assumptions that are not fact based. All you did was pull the "Don't question what Ballard does" card.
$10M (which is top 20 pay) is overpaying the 81st ranked WR. That's just math....
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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:
I agree about Ballard and I've made that post countless times here on the website.
But he doesn't care when it comes to making the decision, and nor should he.
But he has to care --- at least, a little bit --- when the decision is made and he has to go before the media and sell it. Afterall, were a smaller market, we fight for every dollar we can make, tickets, food, parking, gear, you name it. They want our money.
So. Ballard does have to care a little bit when he sells it to the media and fans base. He's not going to sit up there and say "write what you want, I don't care."... He's going to try and explain his thinking about why we signed Funchess, and why we DIDN'T sign anyone else. Just like he explains his views on his draft picks. He's got to sell it. It comes with the job.
Yup, it's his job to sell it. "Caring" is part of the sales job.
Fans may not like the move, but no one if going to beat him too much on this, simply because he's coming off a great draft, and has a bunch of cap. If Funchess turns out like Grant, then folks might start questioning him on his WR strategy, and that will be fair. With his job, comes questioning when things, even small things, don't work out.
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11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:
I put little stock in what a group of “experts” in Bristol, Connecticut have to say about the Colts
There is a reason why they are working in the media and not running a team
I don't care for many at ESPN, but to discount them without fact/data is pretty silly. Many are good at what they do. Some aren't. Many are x-players, x-GMs. The guy that wrote that review is very big on advanced stats, and is not a stupid guy.
So tell me. Give me fact/data as to why this is a good deal. Save the "because Ballard knows best" routine.
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2 minutes ago, Superman said:
Because for the money that Chris "I'm not going to spend A+ money on B-level players" Ballard is giving Funchess, we could have had a more desirable player at the same position.
Instead, it appears he's giving A+ money to a B-level player (at best).
I promise you, people who don't like the deal are able to comprehend the dynamics of the one year deal and its future ramifications.
Yup, that's top 20 money. Top 15 if he hits the 13M. His production is not even top 50. He was 81st YPG... That's "A" money for a C player. He's outside of the top 50 in all advanced stats. If he does hit 13M that means he's likely at 1000 yards, so I'd be more than happy to give him 13M. I don't see him hitting 1000 unless TY gets hurt though.
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Espn gave us a D+ lol. They were a + more than me. I haven't seen higher than a C from any serious site or analyst. All have said that we've overpaid. PFF said he's graded as a WR4 lol (Fantasy).
Here's ESPN's write up.
Devin Funchess, WR, Indianapolis Colts
The deal: One year, $10 million (with an additional $3 million in incentives)
Grade: D+While some were suggesting that the Colts and their $100 million war chest were going to be big spenders in free agency, it was always more likely that general manager Chris Ballard's organization would pick its spots and wait for prices to go down. There are no discounts on day one of the legal-tampering period. Although Indy did make a signing, it's going to raise some eyebrows.
It seemed likely that Funchess would have to settle for a one-year, prove-it deal after the Michigan product was excommunicated from the Panthers' offense during the second half of 2018, but I didn't expect him to get this sort of cash. If the Colts were willing to pay this much for a one-year deal on a young player, they should have been able to toe the line and get an option year to use if Funchess returned to form. There's always a middle ground -- maybe the second year would void if Funchess had a 1,500-yard season or something truly spectacular -- but speculative one-year deals for young players just don't make a lot of sense.
The closest equivalent to this last offseason was the one-year, $9.6 million deal Donte Moncrief signed with the Jaguars. I gave that deal an F for many of the same reasons. I'm a little more sanguine on Funchess' deal, if only because Funchess was better at his pre-free-agency peak (in 2017) than Moncrief was in his (2015). Funchess should take over the Dontrelle Inman role in Indy's lineup, but I wonder if the Colts would've been better off re-signing Inman at a lower rate.
with this wonderful thread 
Projected WRs
in Colts Football
Posted
If we take a WR with one of the first two or three picks, I'd absolutely put them in front of both Cain and Funchess. Not because I think Cain sucks, it's just going to be hard coming back from injury at the same time he is trying to build first year chemistry with Luck. Funchess on the other hand, got passed up last year by 200+ yards by a rookie (DJ Moore) from the draft who displaced him as WR1.
Cain I think will come on late in the season, and will be 100 next year. Funchess is a wildcard based on if we draft a WR early, Cain's progress, if Reich diverts targets from Ebron to Funchess, and a lot of other factors.