Bad Morty
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Posts posted by Bad Morty
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A lot of reports are saying only one ball was 2psi under. Rapaport said 6-8 balls were at around 1psi to just a tick under. The 2-4 balls that aren't mentioned would seem to be between 1psi and 2psi, or Rapaport would have included them when he mentioned the other 6-8 balls.
If PSI in the ball makes such a difference, then wouldn't it make less sense for all the balls to be at different levels of inflation? Wouldn't it make more sense for every ball to feel the same, rather than have 12 balls, all at different levels?
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1 psi is such a small amount of air pressure though. This is why I have a tough time believing they were tampered with. I really don't think 1 psi buys you much of anything which was proved in the second half when the offense scored more points with balls inflated higher. I think if the Pats are guilty of anything it is like Bill said where they should have inflated the balls higher than 12.5 to begin with so they would not fall out of compliance during the game. As with everything though, the devil is in the details. We shall see what Wells uncovers ...
I agree - my money is on nothing going on here. This doesn't seem like a risk they'd intentionally take given the marginal potential gain...and I emphatically don't believe that anybody stuck a needle in a bunch of balls after the refs approved them. That makes zero sense. So that's about the only thing I can say with confidence that Wells will NOT find.
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Yes, I agree. The ball prep seems to be a stretch. First of all, leather does not conduct heat well so you would have to be doing some real vigorous rubbing and Bill emphatically said heaters would not used. So were all 12 balls being rubbed simultaneously right before inflation? That is the only plausible way that this one psi could happen. Unless they were being rubbed outside and then brought inside for inflation. I think a better explanation may be the integrity of the leather being compromised from the prep causing the ball to lose air especially in poor weather conditions. Given the QBs can do whatever they want to these balls that would make more sense than this ball prep explanation.
Technically, Bill said emphatically that they did not inflate the balls in a heated environment, such as a sauna (because that IS illegal). But that doesn't preclude (in my mind) using hot air to inflate the balls or heck - even using a different gas to inflate the balls (I don't even know if there is a type of gas that would drop more quickly or not)....in other words, IF they did *something*, I would almost bet my house that whatever it was, it was technically within the rules (or not specifically prohibited by the rules).
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But he knew the rules for the balls. Why give them one that isn't marked? Why didn't he say, "Umm, thanks for the ball but they won't use it, because it's not a K ball.". Or "Hey what're you trying to pull here? This isn't an official ball."
When a league official hands him a ball to use, why would he even suspect it's not a legit ball? It's not his job to check that - it's the refs.
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That's about the same conclusion I have and tend to think it's #2. I also don't think the NFL expected teams to kick the urine of of balls like BB explained. But I agree that it at least extremely likely that there is no rule violation here. In fact it might ben explain why you had such a variance in NE balls.
It would not in any way surprise me to learn that they figured out a way to do this, determined that what they were doing wasn't prohibited by rule, and they went ahead and did it. It's never been noticed before because they've never re-checked balls at halftime before. I get why fans of other teams get angry over this stuff, if that's in fact what happened....because it comes off like the smartest kid in school who gets all A's already figuring out an alternative way to answer a test question that is technically correct but not necessarily in the spirit of the question that was asked. The anger comes in part from the fact that he got away with something in your eyes, but also in the fact that he thought about it first before you did.
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*sigh*
How come every time something else is covered ad nauseum that looks bad for your team you refuse to believe it?
Has there been anything that meets that criteria since the original Mort and Kravitz reports?
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You mean one of those 12 that magically rubbed things that deflate while the opponents Wilson's don't ?
I think they have a vault where there are tanks of Bill Parcell's flatulence stored...they inflate the balls with it, then they magically deflate.
In all seriousness, I believe there are only 2 realistic possibilities as to what happened here:
1) Nothing whatsoever
2) They figured out some way to treat the balls such that they'd pass the pre-game inspection and then soften up as the game went on.
I have said from day 1 (and I believe it now more than ever) that I can't under any circumstances believe that they would be dumb enough to tamper with the balls after the refs had approved them by sticking a needle in them to de-pressurize them. I think that is a more outlandish theory than the "Colts deflated the one ball" theory. I can't see any way that somebody could get away with sticking a needle in a ball (let alone 11 of them) on the sidelines without getting caught on camera doing it.
So what does that leave us with? Neither 1 or 2 above is illegal. You can do whatever you want to the balls as long as the refs measure them within the range and then you don't tamper with them.
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A league official steals the "K1" ball. McNally tries to put an unapproved ball in. Why would McNally do that?
I suspect it's because Belichick ordered him to replace the official balls with magical super-power balls.
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True on that part, but the instance being referenced here is this statement from DQwell Jackson during play in first half. The Patriots bag of approved footballs should still have been available-
"Jackson does, however, recall one interesting moment during the first half that has something to do with the latest controversy. He recalls, during a television timeout, there was an especially long delay that prompted him to approach an official. The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game."
I don't recall any "especially long delays" other than at the start of the 2nd half. This just sounds like it was a minor sideline issue getting a ball into play, which is probably normal for bad weather games (maybe they couldn't find a dry one or something?). The fact that the Pats apparently played with a Colts ball is more evidence to me that they weren't particularly concerned about the ball pressure...that sounds like "whatever - just give us a ball and let's go".
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If that was the case here, then back to the temp science. So then, who guards the backup balls in the officials locker room if all of the officials have already went to the field for the game? And who is in the replay booth if they are taken there? Not that it has any difference as far as temp exposure, but seems to be a lapse of security protocol compared to all of the steps taken before that.
Given that an employee of the league was just fired for stealing game balls in the middle of the league championship game, I'd say "lapse of security protocol" is the understatement of the year. Meanwhile, if a guy tried wearing his shirt slightly un-tucked, he'd be fined before he could blink...shows you how little the league actually cares about the footballs.
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Former ref Jim Daopoulis described the process in this article http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/24/expert-explains-protocol-with-nfl-game-balls/fCtQ38pBjBFXId0WJC2wpL/story.html
Q: Who from the team brings the balls to the officials, and does the testing take place in the officials’ locker room?
JD: “The equipment manager will bring a bag of 12 or 24 footballs — it depends on the weather. The backup balls they’ll keep in the locker room or the replay room during the game. But those footballs come directly from each equipment manager in a bag, and once they go into the officials’ locker room, nobody has access to them except for the officials. So nobody can sneak in there and let the air out or put air in or do anything. There’s usually a security guard in there, so the footballs sit in the officials’ locker room for two hours until they go out onto the field
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So, according to this, the Pats 12 primary balls were approved along with the 12 backup balls before the game, yet at halftime, only the Pats 12 backup balls remained within spec. Interesting take.
The backup balls didn't sit outside for the half...they stay inside.
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When the radio station told Schefter:"OK Adam, here’s the latest. The Colts deflated the one ball that D’Qwell Jackson intercepted, and all the other balls were just a tick under."
Schefter said four Times..."There are people who believe that."
The first part is just a conspiracy theory, but the second part is a lie. All other balls were not reported to just be a tick under. The media who's pushing that narrative are linking to Rapaport. Rapaport didn't say that. You don't see Schefter correcting them. Even Rapaport's not correcting any of this.
As far as the full 2 psi drop, I linked a video that's trying to show that exact thing.
How is that a lie? What if "the people" who believe that are Kraft, Belichick, and Brady?
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What I read where the balls that did not fall into the "many category" were as much as alb to 1.25 pounds under. Most Pat fans took the many to mean the remaining 11 but that's not the case. I don't think there was a report that said exactly what the balls that fell into that category measured at. I did read that what I stated was the case but I really don't remember where it was. If that wasn't the case then there probably is no issue. If you read my post , I state this clearly and give credence to both arguments. Something that you won't find in one post from you people.
"you people"? Ok then...When/if the NFL actually releases credible information on exactly what the weights of the balls were at halftime, how they were measured pre-game (actual gauge in each and every ball or or "feels ok to me"), etc, I'll render an official judgment as to whether or not I believe the Patriots violated any rules. If there is a believable story that clearly shows that the balls were at 12.5 pre game and were so far deflated at halftime as to stretch the bounds of believability that it happened naturally, then I will acknowledge that wrong-doing very likely happened. If they did it, then they did it...I have no issue accepting that. But there is really not a lot of evidence out there to suggest they did anything wrong at this point. Just the opposite, to be fair.
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I think the issue that is most difficult to explain is if Pat balls deflated as much as 1.25(forget the one at 2LBs) due to weather , why did all the Colt balls stay over the limit ? Seems really strange that if the maximum PSI allowed is 13.5 and some of the Pat balls were over 1LB under the 12.5 min . , that a few of the Colt balls would at least be a tick under 12.5 . No...? I'm going by the report that SEEMS to indicate the following. 1 Ball 2PSI under , many just a bit below and it seems to say that the remaining ones were from 1 to 1.25 under. Maybe that's not the case but if it is , it seems like the weather affected the Pat balls more than the Colts balls.
Also I would think that it's unlikely that all the Colt balls were pumped up to the max of 13.5 PSI. Possible but you think maybe that would have leaked out ? Also if that were the case , I would think the officials would remember it as this investigation started at half time. So even though they didn't document the PSI of the Colt balls , I would think Anderson would remember the next morning that they all measured in at the very max. Now if all the Colt balls actually did start out at 13.5 and there was only the one ball that measured more than 1LB under the 12.5 , then really looks to be no issue. If otherwise , it would explain why this investigation is still ongoing.
Where are we getting the "from 1 to 1.25 under" reports? I have not yet heard that one.
If the last 2 reports (Schefter and Florio) are to be believed, we now have Kensil himself doing the half-time testing of the balls without the game officials being involved. It also seems to be the case that Kensil is very strongly connected to at least one of the leaks that has spun the story negatively for the Pats (his connection to the Naqi story can't be overlooked). So in my mind, what seems to be emerging is a narrative that Kensil acting without the refs knowledge came to that game with the intention of trying to catch the Pats red-handed at something. He found some balls at halftime that were under the limit to some extent or other and he presumed that he had nailed them..so the story gets leaked, the circus begins, and as time goes by we are learning that Kensil probably didn't think this thing through enough. He probably figured that just the fact that there were balls below the limit at halftime would be all the evidence anybody needed, but as it turns out there are scientific explanations that introduce very reasonable doubt to the story that the balls were tampered with, AND there is no physical or video evidence that the balls were tampered with....and here we are.
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I also find it extremely circumspect, how the narrative changes after every leak.
Examples;
Leak: 11 of 12 balls are 2 psi under regulation.
Reason given for anomaly: cold weather caused it. Every C- physics student was showing how the ball could lose up to 3 psi by game time.
Leak: All balls except one were just a tick under.
Reason given for anomoly: nothing happened except for the one ball. That ball must have been deflated by the Colts.
This is an example of the moving goal posts in this thing. All of a sudden in the middle of a physics frenzy, people abandon the idea for no reason. So which is it? Did the weather cause deflation or not?
I think you have the timeline confused...there was a leak about all 11 balls being 2lbs under...then the Patriots responded with a press conference outlining how their process and the weather was found to account for 1 lb of pressure loss....which left everyone thinking "OK...but the report is that the balls lost 2lbs"...then after that, the stories on how much pressure loss occurred all started to suggest that the first report was wrong and/or highly exaggerated. The Patritots story has been consistent. They are saying 2 basic things:
1) they believe the balls could deflate 1lb due to natural causes
2) they did not under any circumstances violate league rules by tampering with balls after the refs had certified them for play.
They haven't wavered from that one bit, and the leaks since then have all pretty much served to support their story.
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This also contradicts Blandino's statement that the NFL did not know about concerns regarding the footballs until the second quarter and makes this look more like a sting operation ...
Superbowl week:
Dean Blandino, the NFL’s head of officiating, finally spoke publicly on Thursday for the first time since the Patriots’ “Deflategate” incident broke two weeks ago.And while he was hamstrung because of the NFL’s investigation led by attorney Ted Wells, Blandino stated that the officials did everything properly before the AFC Championship game, that the Colts had footballs tested at halftime along with the Patriots, that the NFL will discuss logging the results of each ball test in the future, and, to his knowledge, this was not a “sting” operation by the Colts and the NFL. “The issue came up during the first half, as far as I know,” Blandino said at a news conference. “There was an issue that was brought up during the first half, a football came into question, and then the decision was made to test them at halftime. There’s an investigation going on, can’t really get into specifics.”
Today:
General manager Ryan Grigson said Thursday that the Colts had contacted NFL officials before last month's AFC championship game about their concerns with New England's game balls.
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Doesn't Grigson's admission contradict what Blandino said at the Super-Bowl? I thought he said the league hadn't been tipped off and this wasn't a "sting" operation - it just came up during the game and they investigated.
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If this is true, why wasn't it brought up by BB or BK in their respective press conferences? Seems that bringing up this would have immediately helped their case...so why not bring it up?
Is it possible they weren't aware of any of this? It sounds like this Scott Miller guy was just recently fired, and I'm certain the Pats wouldn't have had any idea who this guy was to begin with, let alone be aware of the fact that he had a pattern of stealing game balls. So at the time, it might just have seemed like an irrelevant side note to the story of the game balls being deflated...it was a kicking ball that was misplaced for an extra point, then replaced...end of story.
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Yes the turn around was like lightning less than 24 hours. OTL was in the middle of their report when Schefty broke in with his news. Kraft is not playing around on this one.
And again - I have to applaud the guy in this case. McNally would have had to go into hiding if that ridiculous story had been allowed to stand for several days. I'm sure he's willing to keep quiet about sensitive matters (someone DID lose their job after all), but you have to protect your own. What an ugly mess this is. Is there any doubt left that somebody/bodies have a SERIOUS agenda to slander this team by any means they can find, and ESPN seems to be a more than willing accomplice to this.
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What has happened is Kraft has gone on the offensive here. He is hanging the league out to dry on this one ... big time.
Again - from his perspective, he probably saw a long time good employee in McNally getting his life turned upside down for a day and a half because of the irresponsible reporting by Kelly Naqi. So I'm sure he felt he had no choice but to put this story out there to Schefter in order to protect that guy...and good for him for doing that.
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This part of Florio's article is interesting:
In this specific case, the Patriots weren’t told that the ball marked K1 would be removed from play. After the Patriots scored the first touchdown of the game, the Patriots noticed on the extra-point attempt that the ball had not been prepped the same way that K1 had been prepped. So the Patriots raised the issue with the game officials, and the process commenced of trying to track down the K1 ball.
In-stadium video, according to the source, shows Miller later bringing the ball back toward the playing area.
If this is to be believed, then we have the Patriots noticing something amiss with the balls and then notifying officials about it...does it make sense for a team that had supposedly deflated 11 of 12 balls after the refs had approved them to go out of their way to bring attention to something being out of whack with the game balls?
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Correct - I did say that would be unprecedented but you would think in a championship game the other team has to be made whole somehow.
I would recommend that they add 37 points to the Colts score in the game. That seems fair.
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Florio now in on the latest story http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/19/patriots-alerted-nfl-to-issue-with-special-teams-ball/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
Scott Miller, per the source, is the employee who was fired. It’s unclear whether the termination arose solely from the incident during the AFC title game, or whether investigation by the league unearthed other evidence of Miller removing footballs from play and selling them on the side. Predictably, the league declined PFT’s request for comment on Miller’s termination or the reasons for it.
So what does all of this mean? As it relates to the question of whether footballs intentionally were deflated by the Patriots, nothing. As it relates to whether the NFL will be able to generate sufficient proof of tampering, plenty.
As we gradually learn more about the manner in which footballs are handled, it’s becoming more clear that the NFL doesn’t secure footballs in the kind of way that would allow a presumptive finding that deflated footballs necessarily means a team employee intentionally deflated them. Apart from potential atmospheric conditions, too many people have too much access in too many different ways to the footballs to ever conclude that evidence of deflation is per se evidence of tampering.
Absent a confession or other smoking-gun evidence of tampering, the challenge for the NFL will be explaining this in a way that seems at least plausible to those inclined to believe the league office will simply brush the entire matter under the rug.
Patriots investigation (merge)
in NFL General
Posted
That wasn't my question...how is it an advantage for a QB to have 12 balls, all different feels? Wouldn't the QB want every ball to feel the same?