Bad Morty
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Posts posted by Bad Morty
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Yeah, it's pretty silly to argue against it when the Pats have already admitted guilt.
When did the Pats admit guilt again? I must have missed that. I recall an NFL owner not want to risk taking his own league through an expensive court proceeding that would have cost him more than the million dollar fine. But I never saw anybody admit guilt, and for good reason...nobody deflated any footballs. The science proves that.
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The refs don't touch the psi unless it's outside of the parameters when they test them. Doh.
no that's completely false. The refs routinely add or take out air based on feel alone. It's anything but an exact science, as we've learned from the Wells report.
But none of that matters anymore. The scientific conclusion of the Wells report relies on the fact that the Patriots balls, when measured at halftime, had deflated by more than the Colts balls had deflated. This new report proves that that is exactly what the ideal gas law would predict would happen given the fact that the Colts balls sat in a warm room for 15 minutes before they were measured.
Again - I don't expect a lot of objectivity among this crowd, but the reality is that the science has always been inconclusive and flawed. If you can't scientifically prove that balls were deflated, that takes a major bite out of the circumstantial case that was built around text messages.
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Game. Set. Match.
As table 6 shows, the Patriots balls do not significantly deviate from the prediction of the Ideal Gas Law in the direction that one would expect based on the Wells report’s conclusions and the NFL’s disciplinary measures. The only significant result, in fact, indicates that the Patriots balls were more inflated than the Ideal Gas Law would imply.
By contrast, as shown in table 7, all the results for the Colts are statistically significant at the 5 percent level and are higher than the bottom of the range implied by the Ideal Gas Law for all possible gauge combinations.
The difference between the Patriots pressure drop and the Colts pressure drop, then, is significant, but only because the Colts ball pressure dropped too little rather than because the Patriots ball pressure dropped too much. This can be fully explained by the order in which they were tested. When the Colts balls were sitting in the room, estimated by the Wells report to be between 71 and 74 degrees Fahrenheit, for much of the duration of the 13-minute halftime, their pressure rose (Wells Jr., Karp, and Reisner 2015, XII). The Patriots balls, by contrast, were tested earlier on.
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From the new report:
The pressure of a football depends on the ambient temperature of the atmosphere in which it is located. Footballs inflated to 12.5 PSI at room temperature will drop in pressure when taken into the cold. The pressure in the football will increase when it is brought back into a warm room. Estimating how much the pressure in the ball will decline when the external temperature changes involves straightforward physics.
An investigation that identifies wrongdoing on the part of the Patriots should document three things: that the pressure in the Patriots balls declined more than the pressure in the Colts balls, that the pressure in the Patriots balls was significantly below the level predicted by basic physics, and that the pressure in the Colts balls was not statistically above or below the level predicted by basic physics. The confluence of these three results would represent a smoking gun. However, the statistically different reduction in pressure could result either because the Patriots balls declined more than predicted or because the Colts balls declined less than predicted. The Wells report provides no statistical analysis on this key point.
The problem here is that ideally, measurements would have been taken simultaneously for all balls, outdoors, at the end of the half, and with the same gauge that was used before the game. Instead, the balls were taken inside and measured
there, but not measured simultaneously. The pressure was checked twice for the Patriots balls (once with each gauge), after which the Patriots balls were reinflated and the Colts ball pressure was measured. Only 4 of the Colts balls (instead of all 12) were measured because halftime ended and the officials ran out of time. The fact that the officials ran out of time is highly material: it implies that the Colts balls were inside a warm room for almost the entire halftime before they were measured and thus had a chance to warm up.
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Actually, not at all. I was saying that I haven't read the entire thing and I was actually hoping you could direct me to what pages on the Wells report it says the things you claim it says. I'm not trying to say anything about whether or not you've read it. I just want to read what parts you're talking about so I can make a more educated response
ah gotcha....I'll dig it up and post it...but tomorrow. It's past my bedtime.
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I saw no texts that said anything bad about the Patriots. Can you show me what page on the Wells report those are on?
Can you show me what page that's on? Appendix 1 is quite long
Oh I get it - you're suggesting I haven't read the report. Lol. I read it...sorry - didn't commit it to memory. Does that make the point invalid? The logo gauge gave readings that were within the ideal gas law. The other gauge did not. The logo gauge was 'rationalized' away using speculative "logic" despite the ref saying that was the gauge. This is far from OJ's DNA at the crime scene. It's a substantial reach. And now we have another research institute that thinks the same thing.
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Is your answer yes or no?.
I don't know why they were suspended. No explanation has been given. I'm guessing it's because text messages surfaced that made it clear these people were not exemplary employees.
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The text messages talk smack to Tom Brady, but not the NFL (as far as I've read, perhaps I missed some texts messages).
The team suspended them, not the NFL (there was a report that the NFL requested they be suspended, but the NFL has denied this)
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Can you direct me to the page(s) on the Wells report where that information can be found?
It's in the appendix where the Exponent "analysis" that dismisses the logo gauge readings can be found. Are you denying that the report HAD to find a way to get the readings from that gauge dismissed in order to prove the conclusion it arrived at? If all they had were the logo gauge readings, there's no case here whatsoever...and that happens to be the gauge that the ref recalled using.
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So the suspension has nothing to do with football but trashing the boss?
If you had written texts like that about your employer and your employer discovered them, would you expect to remain employed?
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The reason I find it ridiculous is because the evidence isn't even remotely in line with what you suggested.
That's your take. I think the dismissal of the logo gauge that would validate the ideal gas law as the cause for deflation is pretty sketchy. It's shoddy research that wouldn't pass a community college science class.
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Mods - How is this thread not trolling when the OP ignores and makes selective responses?.
We can leave this thread open for fun though.
Sorry I haven't answered you personally. Was your question about the suspensions? I don't think the texts of them trashing their boss were known until the Wells investigation uncovered them. So how could the team suspend them for texts after the Jets game when they didn't know they existed.
It's funny...I just posted a theory that acknowledges they tampered with the balls...not sure why that's being ridiculed. I'll ask seriously...what if McNally had a pin/gauge and deflated the balls from 13 to 12.5 before the game? Is It not possible that that's what the "arrangement" was? Does that change how anyone would view this if the motivation behind it was that Brady wanted 12.5 balls, not balls that were below the legal limit?
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I'd buy this theory:
1) Brady asked for 12.5 balls as usual
2) Refs inflated the balls higher than that...we know from the Wells report that they aren't too rigid about this, so those balls might have been closer to 13 when they left the refs room
3) McNally takes them to the bathroom. "takes the top off"...a violation no doubt, and one that should be penalized
4) But because the refs over-inflated the balls, the action McNally took resulted in balls pretty much at the 12.5 level Brady requested to begin with by the time he leaves the bathroom...i.e. McNally's job was to get the balls to the 12.5 he wanted...legal balls, but tampered with.
5) Then mother nature takes it's course during the first half deflating the balls further
That left the league with the awkward situation of KNOWING that the Pats were doing this but NOT knowing that the refs weren't inflating the balls properly to begin with OR that the cold would explain deflation more than they thought....
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And why did the guy claim to have to taken a leak in a bathroom urinal that doesn't exist? lol
The guy broke a rule by taking the balls. None of that matters...what matters is the science. If the science can't prove that balls were intentionally deflated, then guess what? None of the rest of it matters. And the fact is, the science can't prove it. That was pretty clear in the Wells report itself, when they tossed out the idea that the logo gauge was used even though that's what the ref said he used. But now, with this new report, it's crystal clear. Those balls were not deflated.
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Answer my question other than "who knows".
Why are 2 employees suddenly suspended?. Why does one of them calls himself 'Deflator'?.
If you give me another who knows, you are clearly trolling.
The logical answer is that Brady got * at the over-inflated balls in the Jets game and tore both of these guys a new bung hole over it. That prompted a lot of unflattering texts about their boss. When those texts came to light and made their boss and employer look bad, they got suspended.
I know that doesn't fit your narrative, but the fact is that the science is incredibly weak in the Wells report. I'll be the NFL had NO clue before they went into this that balls actually do deflate naturally in cold weather.
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That's logical
Facts usually are logical. It's utterly laughably absurd to believe that balls were deflated in a bathroom prior to a game. The Wells "science" has to jump through a thousand hoops to get to that conclusion, and this new report pretty much trashes the Wells report science like it was performed by a 6th grade science class. But this whole thing was fun while it lasted.
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Quick question - Why are those 2 employees suspended and why do they have nick names like "deflator"?.
Who knows...all I know is no balls were ever deflated. Sorry.
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In related news, Butler is reportedly bitterly disappointed that he won't be able to hang the special "OTA Participant" banner that he had made to commemorate the fact that he participated in something.
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Credibility killer? Coming from a do-no-wrong Patriot fan? That's rich. Btw ... It was _Your_ Patriot players in the 2003 game that resorted to "cheating" on plays when the officials continued with the non-calls.
You root for a team that pulled the dirtiest, scummiest move in the history of sports when they backed the trucks up and skulked out of Baltimore under the cover of darkness because the billionaire Irsay family wanted a free handout. So please - spare us the "it's a conspiracy" nonsense.
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Owned
Nice! I haven't seen anyone type "owned" in a thread since like 2003...
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Fair enough. You know, I really don't like to argue. Sometimes I can't help but join in these conversations tho.
ha! Yeah I haven't often felt a sense of great accomplishment after an internet argument...but it beats being bored at work I guess.
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And that's a reasonable assumption on your part. I just remember when Tom was out before, due to injury, the team still did okay.
In any event, I guess one of us will find out soon enough if we're correct or not.
it turned out ok, and I don't think it would be a fiasco if Garapolo had to play a few games...but I think the surer bet is that they'd feel less impact from the first rounder than 4 games without Brady.
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Of course. Some have already suggested that it was some back door negotiations, and that was part of Kraft's agreeing to the terms of the teams fines.
I personally don't buy that at all. I think the team's loss of draft picks are more harmful and damning than Brady missing a few games, so I honestly don't think any so called deals were made.
I don't agree with that...losing a first round pick is obviously difficult, but the Pats first round pick from last year (Dominique Easley) was little more than a spare part this year who went on IR halfway through the year. I'll take a lost first rounder any day over losing a QB of Brady's caliber for 25% of a full season. That is a crippling punishment...or, from the sounds of it, "would have been" a crippling punishment.
Deflategate merge -- pending appeal results
in NFL General
Posted
eh...that's your narrative because you have an agenda you don't want to vary off of. If I thought the Pats deflated footballs, I'd have no problem saying "they deflated footballs"...but there's no scientific evidence suggesting that the balls were tampered with. I believe science, not agendas.