JTcardscolts
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Posts posted by JTcardscolts
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what i dont get is if the new HC wants to run the ball and play defense team, why would they pick this guy.
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when they talk about trades they use the point system to make sure everyone gets fare value. the first is worth so much and it drops has you go down the draftWhat are these values? I never heard of or seen
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yes you are correct using the point system, but i(and all pro luck people) would say its worth the best prospect in 25 years...The value of 2,4 and 22 is 5180. The value for #1 is 3000. The Colts would have to give up their entire draft to get those 3 first rounders.
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I read a rumor that Jeff Fisher is going to trade QB Sam Bradford to the Browns, so he can take RGIII with the second pick. Now keep in mind, i did say rumor and there could be no weight to this at all, but i figure its worth a discussion. I also read that ESPN has this info but is waiting till the SB weekend to break it (Spin/Twist/Blow it up).
This is why i think its something worth talking about everyone knows JF is a control freak and wants everything done his way, this is why he chose the rams over the fins. On top of that they have the #2 pick, and major trade bait in Bradford or vise versa. Of course hes gonna want his own guys on the team and this is why Bradford becomes expendable.
Now here is my thought, or scenario.
JF always disliked Vince Young, i thought this was because he was a scrambling QB? it doesn't make sense to me that he would draft another one, if this rumor is true. So what if he plans to trade Bradford to the browns and wants to get both first rounders and a second, the Bears gave up 2 first rounders and then some for Cutler.
So now the rams are sitting with no QB and and possibly 3 first round and 2 second round picks. so you know they need a QB and its just so happens that there is the "best" prospect in a while, in this draft. do they make a move for him? if hes as good(NFL ready) has everybody says he, is why would they not.
IF PM is healthy and ready to play by march 8th, do they make the call to trade down and take RGIII #2 and have 4 and 22 in the first round. RGIII has already said he has no problem sitting behind Peyton, and Peyton already said Luck should start day one. Also the new HC is gonna need some players on defense to run his system.
IF this some how fell in to place, and we received 3 first rounders, 2/4/22 and a second, who would you like to see with the 4th and 22nd pick? assuming that we use #2 on RGIII.
Altho far fetched, this i believe would most certainly please everyone, you get your high pick QB, and i get my bounty of draft picks....with that said my fingers are crossed
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^thisActually star QBs are in every single draft. Lets say Barkley decided to enter the draft this year. If you think there is a debate about RG3 or Luck, imagine if barkley was available too...
I am not sure that a player being the most "hyped" player in a decade is a good thing. All hype does is make someone or something sound better than they truly are (this years eagles team for example).
Yes, you trade the top pick for manning and more picks in the next 4 years. We build a great young team and win another SB and within the next 4 years we draft a QB to replace manning with one of our extra 1st or 2nd round picks we get from trading down.
Gabbert was supposed to be the best QB last year until Car said they were going with Newton.
To me, by releasing Manning and drafting Luck we are trading Manning and 2 1st rnd and 2 2nd rnd picks for Luck. If Manning can play next year, not trading down is just plain stupid.
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no i didnt mean restructure so we can trade him, i mean so we can pay top FA to come here so we can do a 3pete, witrh PM at the helm, lets not for get we are only 1 year removed from a 10-6 team(everybody hurt/poor coaching) and 2 from a SB contending team.Yes, STAR. This most hyped QB since some dudes named Peyton Manning and John Elway, ever heard of them?
What if he's a bust? Well then we're >>>ed...There is no reason to believe he will be a bust though?
What if we pay Peyton $28 Million and he isn't able to play in 2012? Then we have no cap room to give Andrew any kind of supporting cast and we will surely have another terrible year.
Do you honestly believe PM will be able to show us he can play before the bonus deadline? HIGHLY doubtful and he's not going to restructure his contract so we can trade him, that would diminish the team he would go to. He's going to be cut and probably retire or possibly play in NY, Zona, DC, or somewhere else.
By the way I know I was suppose to "pretend" Peyton is 100% for the poll but I don't find that realistic.
but if PM isnt healthy or doesnt think he'll be ready by the dead line(which i think he is nowIMO) then we of course he should push that date back or cut him and then resign him at a much cheaper rate.
BUT....with that said...because the media has put such a twist on this, and has everybody in a up roar, and thinking hes the villian, Peyton is gonna say, "Mr. Irsay im not healthy yet and i dont know if ill be able to play come the start of the season." So he'll get cut so no one looks like that bad guy, but some how he'll be healthy enough to get signed by someone else and will be ready the start of the season, oh its a merical... thats the way PM is, always taking the high road.
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Can they afford not to keep him?
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"star" wow.... To much koolaid....he has yet to play a down in the NFL he's far from a star, you already had it right a the first time "prospect".It's a bad deal to build your team around possibly the most hyped prospect of the decade?
C'MON MAN
Peyton isn't healthy and will never be back to 100%, but for the sake of argument lets pretend he is...
You trade Luck for what? 3-4 years of more of Peyton and then????...Then we are terrible again, and have no QB.
Star QBs like Luck don't come around every single year in the draft.
Everyone is blinded by PM right now. Don't get me wrong, Peyton is my favorite player of all time, but his days of being the #1 QB in the league are over. Nobody knows for sure if he will ever be healthy again and we sure as heck wont know before the $28 million bonus deadline. Either PM restructures his contract (which he should considering we paid him $26 million to not step foot on the field last year) or he's gone, and even if he does restructure we will still take Luck #1.
Ok now see I'm about to answer your question, but you have to answer mine next, cause no has yet. K good.
We already kno Peyton will make the offense great again, so we draft defense and with 4 yep 4 first round picks on defense the next 2 years that defense will beable to carry Peyton through his golden year, which I believe he'll be great until the day he calls it a quits. So add in a 1st round runningback the following year maybe 2nd 3rd round linemen and were a great team without Peyton, like Baltimore and Seattle of the early 2000s.
IF, Peyton ain't himself next year trade up with your 2 1st rounders and take a "star", which I still wouldn't suggest but would understand.
But keep in mind I believe all athletes are overpaid(altho I believe the best should get paid the most per market), and if were going to do this for Peyton, Irsay, after he pays him the bonus, should talk to Peyton about a pay cut. And Peyton should agree.
Now remember you said for the sake ofthe argument.
So my question to you, if Andrew is a bust where do we go from there? Especially if Peyton is cut, that same media who is stirring all this crap up will be the ones with the O faces saying what did u guys do. Not to mention the back lash of the fans.
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They(media) just want to see Peyton in a bigger market, where he is more marketable, big star belongs in a big market, that's how they feel. It's the samething they did to Albert(stl cards) although a bit different situation but they got to AP and forced his hand, tho the stl organization didn't help much either, tight wads. and go figure the angels sign a 5billion dollar contract after they sign AP, by who? The media, Fox.The media is just jerkin us around by our leashes, ain't they?
But my point is I hope Irsay and Peyton are smart enough to see that, cause it would be a sad day in Indy and for sports period to see a legend have to leave his home against his will. Trust me I already know. (See above)
IMO I always thought Irsay thought the world of Peyton, I mean why would you come out and say I want to make PM the highest paid QB next year, and then pay him 26 mil not to play. That's why I always thought this was a big set-up on Irsay part trying to get more For that pick. I just can't believe he would just leave Peyton in the dark like that.
With that said tho I must admit, I'm trying my hardest to stay positive cause I understand the effect the media has on everything these day, but as the days go by I'm beginning to question my theory.
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It's a no brainer....
You realized that it's a bad deal to build your team around one player, therefore you trade the pick.
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Hahaha now this is funny, and highly hypocritical. So your a "don't put all your eggs in one basket" guy too. Huh? Kinda like we did with Peyton is entire career. So then surely you must be in favor of trading the 1st pick for multiple 1st round picks in multiple season. I mean after all you are a "don't put all your eggs in one basket guy" right?I am an Indanapolis Colts fan first unlike a bunch here who are Peyton Manning fans first. I would much rather see the franchise be set up for success taking a very good prospect, one of the best to come along in some time, rather than put all the eggs in one basket. That basket being a 36 year old quarterback with 3 neck surgeries who EVEN post-op will have question marks as to how he will play. That is me. I am grateful for what Manning has done but tossing Manning outright in glee? Sure you can call it that. I call it moving forward. I am not going to grasp at straws, cross my fingers, or make up assumptions (which is all I hear). If my words have struck you the wrong way then that is fantastic.
I'm glad someone here agrees with me...
Thought I was alone;)
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dont listen to them they are only informed by ESPN, and everybody knows they are just pushing for ratings...... thats a factMy first though is that Pagono wont want us to use the No.1 overall on a QB..
when his defense needs some new-age high speed attackers..
If he believes Manning is OK...could he talk Irsay and Grigson into dealing the No.1 for Cleveland's No.4 overall..
No. 26 and (we have No. 33) No. 37???
...and take a nose guard, corner, safety and QB (with 33 or 37)?
..we really havent spent many No.1's on defense in the Manning-era
now am i saying they wont go QB #1 or with their first pick, no, Irsay said they would.
however everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Irsay said the great #18 will be in blue and whitre next year if hes healthy....and i dont kno about everybody else but if I were spending my entire week working out and rehabbing...yea you better believe im coming back....and im going to have something to prove...you dont think Peyton wont think the same thing???
Not if you listen to the media(ESPN)
If Peyton walks in to the office of Irsays and says "check it out, i feel great...that 4 yr contract you gave me, yea youlll make money, lots of it..."
Irsay gonna say "Peyton i dont care about the money(thats why i always made it clear to everyone i will make you the highest paid QB ever, cause your my boy) i just want to make sure you are able to be my QB of the future(yea i said it), can you do that?" And Peyton will say yea.
And you people dont think that pick wont get traded???
Idk, Luck was a great(really, really good)college QB, and could be a great NFL QB, but if Irsay could keep Peyton(his man crush) and rebuild the team at the same time, you dont think he would???
This is why everybody keeps saying"I dont know" before they answer question about our Colts, because they really dont know...
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hes also made it clear that PM will be in blue and white next year...but you guys dont really are now do you??Irsay has made it really really really clear that they are taking a QB with the #1 pick.
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Tell this to the the team in San Fran, and they didn't even have a full offseason to get ok the same page.As it stands, If you don't pick luck, and Mannings health goes south, then you have the same sorry backups you had last year. Defense will take 3 or 4 years to improve. What if you have a top 5 defense but you never score 20 points. Then you have the Ravens.
Give me a top 5 defense with #18 behind center, I'll take this over any team in the league!
Top 5D + 18 at QB = SB champs
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If it helps us win... I'm all for fear the beard!!!
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Don't tell espn thatKravitz said he was more upbeat than he's ever been.
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Yea and in that same article he was down and out, but I heard from other media sources that he was actually up beat...I would like to hear the interview myself. And make my own call.True but the more they keep talking about it over and over the more it starts to seep into the thoughts of those involved. In the Kravitz article, Peyton is quoted as speculating that he could be" the next to go". (I'm paraphrasing here.) So he is now obviously mulling over that prospect. If he was confident that the decision regarding his future would be solely between him and Irsay, then why would he need Grigson to reluctantly confirm that fact and why would he even make such a statement to the media knowing how they like to blow things out of proportion?
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Like all your points, and u nailed it, "they said we were looking for an offensive mind coach" the fact is they kno has much as us they just get paid more when they can twist it more...This hire is solidifying the fact that Manning is staying (if healthy). How much sense does it make to have a rookie QB AND a rookie,defensive minded head coach in the same season? All with one of the greatest talents/offensive minds the game has ever seen at our disposal. We just saw how much Irsay hates losing. This team still has a lot of talent, good enough for another run NOW. If Chuck is as good as they say he is, he'll put together a defense suitable with what he gets. Angerer fits the mold of a Ravens-type LB already, Mathis and Freeney might not have the size but they are still ridiculous athletes and CAN play in a 3-4 defense. Don't forget, we also have pick #33, which isn't far removed from what we're used to being our First pick. Grigerson has a chance to find a good NT or LB. We need a better line, hopefully those 2 picks from last draft show up in 2012.
Don't listen to those jokes on ESPN. I put them on mute when they're talking about Manning, just so I can enjoy some more of his highlights. "it's a change of philosophy with a defensive minded coach coming in".... The sky is falling...correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn Dungy was a " Defensive minded" coach coming in. How'd that work out for us?
Aren't they the same people who said Irsay was looking for an Offensive mind? nailed it again ESPN.
I'll put $$ on it Manning and Irsay figure out a way to deal with the 28mill.
We're not rebuilding, we're regrouping..... 'Let's hunt'
I too will be muting my tv from now on...thanks for the tip!
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Another point u could add is if he intends to implement his 3-4 defense your gonna need the right guys, and there's no better way to get them then to trade the 1 pick, and trade down again(maybe) cause guys Upsaw(perfect3-4 guy) and Poe would be a big time reach but both perfect for the 3-4 defense.Chuck Pagano hiring today means in my opinion that Manning (if healthy and cleard to play) is staying in Indy.
Why you ask
1 all experts said to groom a rookie QB you need a offensive type of coach- Pagano is not
2 the defense needs upgrade, with a healthy Manning the offense has no major issues
Pagano is a good defensive coach, the Ravens fan board is upset of the hire by the Colts
3 Pagano-will hire a defensive assistant from Baltimore or someone he trusts and worked for in the past
to bring in the smash mouth defense that the Ravens had for the last 10 yrs
4 Clyde Christian was the only guy not fired by Irsay-hint-so the offense can stay the same for Manning
so it doesn't miss a beat in 2012
Good thread, with sound logic.
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Plus I always had the feeling Irsay had a man crush on Peyton?? Is this true? Kinda like Jon Gruden.
So the question is if he believes they can win 2-3 SB in the next 4-5 years do u give up the "next franchise" QB for the next 10-12 yrs....
I say yep.....
And there's no better QB to lead our team then the great PM himself
4 more years 4 more years 4 more years.......
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Great point that what leads me to believe that this is him playing his cards right and Peyton is just playing the game with him.I have never doubted Irsay. He already stated, as others mentioned, on national TV that he will pay 28m to Peyton and he will remain a Colt if he is healthy. There is no reason for him to reiterate that. It was stated on national TV. I have no idea why all the media and even some fans on these boards refuse to believe that.
I'm glad someone pointed this out....
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Aside from Peyton talking I think this whole interview is crap, we already kno everything he's talked about, I kno when my bosses were firing people we(even those of us who were told we won't be let go) were all on eggshells too.
I think something u can look it to is when he answered the question so what did u and Grigs talk about?
Well he kinda didn't want to tell me that Irsay will be saying if I'm staying or not....
Oh ok didn't he say that on TV?? We knew that, as with most of everything else he said.
He had to tell the guy something....
And come on, they "ran" into each other, if Peyton said that put it in quotes...cause he didn't!
Something that is great news that I did not kno that how(and why) can a guy with a injured neck go in and workout and throw balls "everyday" if he was hurt and couldn't....
Sounds like a guy who gearing up for a come back!!!!
4MVPs and 1 come back player of the year award
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The thought of Brady and the pats, in our house playing without Peyton there to defend it makes me sick. I can't help but think that they are/will enjoy this SB more then the others knowing it's in our house and most of us(fans and players) are at home watching...it really is a shame I was really looking forward to watching Peyton and the colts play in the SB on their home turf....would have been greatI was just reading an Indystar article that talked about how the New England Patriots will being using the Colts complex as their training HQ during their SB preparations (I just threw up in my mouth a little). It feels like having the enemy behind the front lines. What is your take on it?
Discuss...
Well ill be watching anyway... and I hope it's a good one!!
Oh... my definition of a good game... G-men by 30, Brady 15-40 4picks, a man can dream can't he!!
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Aren't you over reacting a bit??Give me a break. First off, isn't a discourse among fans exactly the purpose of a message board. Secondly, all I said that believing this is a sign of Manning's return is a stretch. Pretty much no harm in that.
Peyton does a commercial and that is the evidence that shows he is coming back to play? The commercial was funny as all of his are but reading anything else into it is kind of comical.
How About This (What If)Trade Scenario
in Colts Football
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