JTcardscolts

January 17, 2012

And as for all u other jokesters out there, who watched an always hurt(cause he was always on the ground) Brett Frave have the best season of his career at the age of 39-40. We will see.....

FYI Frave taken in the 2nd round. Looks like he turned out pretty well and no one compared him to Elway.

January 17, 2012

IMO the two aren't comparable all........
Quinn acted highly unprofessional at the draft and was also absent from training camp (10 days) ruining his potential starting job thus riddling him with inconsistent play time. His unprofessional attitude led him to third on the depth chart. In 2007 he started week 17 and went 3 out of 8. 2008 he played weeks 10,11,12 before breaking his finger side lining him foe the rest of the year. After more inconsistent play time in 2009 he also was injured again late in the season. He did have ample time to play in 2009 though.
Unprofessionalism, being drafted by a terrible franchise, inconsistent play and injuries all contributed to his downfall. Noone knows how good the guy really is or could be due to all those negative contributing factors. I can't see anything similar happen with Luck. If Luck even has to sit and learn under Manning for a couple year or so, Luck would more than likely eventually become a full time starter. If the Colts decide to trade Luck, whatever team he goes to will most likely place him #1 on the dc and he will become a full time starter, baring injuries ofc. Two complete different stories and two completely different players. Luck is a very professional person and low key, while Quinn seemed like more of a glitz and glamour pretty boy party type, ala fratboy.

Your entire judgement is based on Quinn during the draft and in the NFL. Physically, statistically, and the Pros about there game play, and what experts said are very similar. This is based on facts and numbers to back it up, tho Quinn, I will admit, did have a few more conserns about his play, but it is still early in the pre-draft process, much more work needs to be done.

But that's another point I make too, is how much of a pass this kid gets because of the hype the experts put on him. Oh this kid his great so take him #1. You talk about Quinn not being professional, well when Luck was asked what he thought about backing up Peyton next year, "such is life" that didn't sound to professional to me. "I would do it happily" now that's a professional response, by Robert Griffin, on the same subject.

January 16, 2012

What major career stat goals does Manning have left to achieve? I would assume that 60,000 yards passing would be one of them, and he's at about 55,000. What else?

Most career games played with one team. And all the single season stat record that he should have already, including a perfect season, and top it off with a pretty ring. if his dang coaches would leave him in the games.

January 13, 2012

i didnt know this thanks but there is the fact if the colts still trade down and pick up another pick next year whos to say we cant get him next year? who knows what happends year to year. for all i know is we pick luck and then trade manning and then luck is a bust then what were picking the top pick for the next 5 years easy. but trade dwon and get like blackmon or a high end RB and keeping peyton we are looking at making the playoffs for the next 3-5 years. its only logical to trade down to get the best value for your entire team.

Yes I'm with you, who's to say there's not a better QB in next years draft.....just like u said the draft is year to year and hit and miss, or like a box of chocolates you never know what ur gonna get....

January 13, 2012

hhaha, Im not 'pro' anyone.
But when the argument of not drafting someone is because 'they will be a bust'....well then, thats where I come in.....every draft pick is a 'bust' based on that logic. It can't and shouldn't be used....
On the topic of trade. Of course its a brilliant idea to trade 1 pick for 5 or 6. No one argues the brilliance of it. Once again its the logic. No one is going to give us a bunch of picks so we can fill our 'many holes', when the only teams capable of making such a trade, have 'many holes' themselves....
Why would a guy like Maurice Claiborne, as an example, be ideal? Have people not seen the results of first round DBs? Or realize the length it takes to adjust to the NFL game? There may be a handful of IMMEDIATE impact players in this draft, and a majority will be RB. Hardly anyone Luck included will markedly improve this team for 2012.

Now see your sounding a lot more reasonable now, and with that said to be honest with you I don't kno who I would take, just the thought of a high draft pick being a bust kills me, but I hear kalil(?) might be a sure thing(?) with the high pick but I just kno we have a bunch of holes to fill and if them fools the browns are willing to give their house up I say we take it.

I too am just arguing the what if? Forgive me, it's just to many people are pro luck.

January 13, 2012

I can tell you don't watch much college football. If you do, watch it again. Did you watch him in the Fiesta Bowl? He went 27/31, 11.2yds avg, against #3 ranked Oklahoma. That's insane.
http://espn.go.com/c...a-state-cowboys
Did you see his 56-48 win over USC?
http://espn.go.com/n...ameId=313020030
Luck basically made Stanford what it is. Stanford didn't need good defense, because Luck just blew out everybody. It's unfortunate in the Fiesta Bowl, Stanford's defense was so pathetic, that even Luck's numbers couldn't help them win (Stanford gave up 21 pts in the 2nd Q alone).
I don't care if RGIII won the Heisman. Compare the film. Luck has played in a pro system. He overcame a poor defense. He makes all the throws. He does, in fact, have zip on the ball. He's decently fast on his feet. He is the whole package.
As for him not helping us win for four years, how can you guarantee that Manning will remain 100% healthy the rest of his career? Answer: You can't.

Can Peyton stay 100% healthy for the rest of his career? Answer. Well if he comes back 100% of course he can, go read the NFL rule book it states that the defensive player is only allowed to 2 hand touch the QB then he must give up. Yea it's obvious you've been watching college ball and not the NFL lately, you need to catch up. It's another ball game out there now. but the thing is the league is just now catching up too. Peyton's been doing this is entire career, hence his 208 consecutive start streak, which I'm sure u are unaware that it was put to an end this year. Yep true story happen in the first game, yea don't worry about you were prolly to busy watching college ball.

January 13, 2012

Manning 28 Million Option bonus due March 8th
2012 NFL League Year starts March 13th
Players can negoiate and sign one contract each league year.
It is impossible to trade him(Outside of eating 35 million in dead cap space). It is impossible for him to restructure his contract prior to the bonus due date. He will not be traded.

You are no joke my friend. Nothing but facts.

On another note I say fire JC aswell. Your thoughts on a replacement?

January 13, 2012

Because questions like that get you NO WHERE!
How do we know Luck isn't Palmer? Carr? Leaf?
How do we know Luck isn't Montana/Brady/Brees?
People need to quit comparing him to NFL players. Good and Bad.
People need to start discussing, arm strength, accuracy, play calling, etc. All of which are the only things you can judge him on.
BTW if Jimmy Claussen and Brady Quinn are 6-2 and 6-3 Im 7-9'.....

Yes you are 100% right people do need to stop comparing him to NFL QBs, but I believe it was Luck fans who compared him to Elway and Peyton first, only right That we get our say...

But yea we don't kno if luck is gonna be like any QB(Elway included), but like the ones on your first list 3 over hyped QBs taken in the first round. And your other 3 were taken 2nd and after, all future HOFs. Heck Palmer himself was compared to Elway coming out of high school. And I'm not saying he's a bad QB but he defiantly hasn't been worth that 1st overall pick.

I think our(pro trade luck people) main point we are arguing is if somebody is gonna give us a crap ton of picks for this kid...we should take the deal after all we are a team with a butt load of holes to fill.

And about Peyton playing in his 40s, have u heard about the NFL rules lately, cause just as your pro luck and I'm pro Peyton, the NFL rule book is pro QB, Frave played in his 40 and he wasn't even a beneficiary of these rules.

January 12, 2012

Ehh nothing crazy about it. Everyone has their idea how things should go.
Ill say this, while I think the team should take Luck, I wont be crying if they decide to trade down. Either way they should end up with some players with alot of potential.
You do bring up a good point about the two hand touch rules with QB these days.

but with that said Peyton must be 100% healthy and still wants to play football for many years, which I believe he would. And it would also be nice to lock him up with a career contract like the Pack was gonna do with Frave.

But if Peyton would come out and say I only want to play 2 more years, I wouldn't exactly be opposed to taking luck.

January 12, 2012

Well, I was not trying to answer any question of yours. Was simply stating worrying about Luck being a bust is a waste of time and energy.
What's more, I would argue that you can make a very reasonable case that even with a 100% healthy Manning, taking Luck still would still be the way for the Colts to go.

And I respectfully disagree.

January 12, 2012

I'd LOVE Mike Zimmer. Please not Mornhinweg..

if Zimmer is offered the job he might take it, hes a midwest guy, from Illinois.

January 12, 2012

Yes you give yourself more chances at landing a good player but again the potential longterm payout is less even if you hit on every pick. Look at teams without a viable QB and you see awful or inconsistent they are. This team is a long long way from becoming the 49ers where they can win with defense and a running game and even then theyve had solid QB play with Smith.
Look at it in the shorterm, will this team really be in shape to contend agian after one draft considering how awful they were this season? Youre asking a bunch of rookies or 2nd years players to come in and be the difference? That is alot to ask. Expecting them to be SB contenders the season after next is a bit optimistic IMO too. We are a team in transition.
As for Peyton please? Youre right he has been the most consistent part of this team but he's 36 for crying out loud and coming off injuries. Even if he was 100% healthy realistically expecting him to play at a high level into his 40's is insanely optmistic. Id say if he is healthy, 2 years is probably the most you should realistically plan for. Anything after that is gravy.
And why would you trade down now only to trade back up in the future and take a less regarded player? Just take the QB now and plan for Peyton to move on in 2 years.
Im all for trying to improve the team around Peyton but I dont think the team should do it at the expense of the longterm. Just MO.

yes i understand your point has will, however im the one who is insanely optimistic about playing great into his 40's(yes call me crazy). but if you look at the NFL and the rules theyve been changing, the QB plays 2 hand touch, while everyone else is playing tackle. IM(crazy)Oi think he can be great till hes 45, its not like he depends on his legs to get out of the pocket and make plays, and its not like he gets scaked a lot, he goes down by himself. What makes Peyton so unique is his quick release, accuracy, and his ability to read the defense so will, these would probably be the last things to go, so thats why i believe he can play at a high level for many more years....i kno it sounds crazy but we we'll have to just wait and see, this is also consirdering hes healthy from is neck surgery and he continues to stay healthy on the field like hes done for so many years.

but about san fran they werent known for their defense in the past years, and that was a quick turnaround, its not like we have a bad defense right now, its just built around the pass rush, and if your offense cant score points, the opposing offense wont need to pass rendering our defense useless, like we saw this past year. and i for one dont care to spend a high pick on a QB as long as we have good scouts they should be able to find one in the later rounds to develop behind peyton this would give us all these top picks in 2 years to create a team that even a weak QB(Sanchez and the jets, maybe even the ravens, altho much better QB) that at the least will keep us in contention for an AFC champ.

i understand that luck was a good college and has the "potential" to be a good NFL QB. i really do believe this and would take him over a few NFL QBs now. but if we dont address our many other needs now hes goona be in the same position as Peyton was for so many years. So, does he have the potential to put this team on his back and carry it for many years?? this is the real question.

but this is mo and i know its crazy, but not far off if you look at the facts

January 11, 2012

You do realize there is no garuntee with the alternative to drafting Luck right?
Lets play the what if game....
What if we trade down and take other positions and they are busts? Well atleast we got more picks right! I understand you reduce the risk some by having more but the potential payoff is also less by not addressing the most critical position in the game.
Lets add to that idea...Now what if Peyton isnt the same player on top of a bunch of trade down disasters. Now what is the team left with?
Jskinnz nailed it. The best you can do is scout like crazy and try to stay as objective as you can during the process and make the decision from there.

u just answered the question for urself there's more picks so we gotta hit on a couple of them, let's face if we take 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds and at least two of them arnt starters then the GM is a bust, u can forgive maybe 1 high pick being a bust, but to miss on four would be ridiculous. And I'd say if we got two different play makers like a Ed Reed, T. Polamalu, Urlacker, orHaynesworth before he was a *, that would be a pretty great start and would up grade our defense big time.

And as for Peyton, please....he's been the only consistent thing the colts has had since they drafted him, don't kid yourself. But to answer it for you we'd be left with a team that just got 4 picks in the first 2 roundsand plugged a lot of holes, not to mention an option to trade up next year for a shot at another high round draft pick.

January 11, 2012

In the highlighted part, this line of thinking is lost on me. I don't think it needs to be pointed out to anyone that there is no such thing as a sure thing in the NFL draft. There are countless players who had greatness expected from them and failed miserably. Same with those low round picks or UDFA's who turned into All-Pros.
But NFL teams have a process. Between the scouts and personnel people, there are literally hundreds if not thousands of man-hours of research put into draft picks, particularly high picks. You have to trust the process and what your instincts tell you on a player. If after all the research is done, and that includes finding what the value of the # 1 pick may be, it leads to the conclusion that Luck is the best option for the team, you make the pick. If it turns out poorly, then do a post-mortem on the process and where you may have gone wrong. But at the time, you do not worry about him busting. You simply go where the research tells you to go.

Yea your right but in a normal situation, and let me point it out to you this is not a normal situation. You guys are talking about letting go one of the greatest QB ever, for this kid, so luck better be a sure thing cause if peyton is healthy we kno what were gonna get. So if we did get rid of Peyton and luck turns out to be a bust all were left with his a team in shambles. And I'd say I told you so and and you'd thick to yourself(cause u wouldn't say it) oh my god, what did we do....

So no u didn't answer my question, cause were still left with a horrid team with a bunch of holes. At least with my idea our TEAM(not only QB position) is set for years, and we would set ourselves up to trade up next year to get to get another high pick

January 11, 2012

With what leverage?

I won't declare and go back to school. Of course this convo would have to be under the table.

Has he declare yet? Im not sure.

January 10, 2012

Only if you absolutely must, but preferrably not. We don't need to trade Peyton to take Luck. On a personal level, I still am very doubtful that Peyton will ever play again.

It would be a shame not to see 18 throw the ole pigskin again, and IMO even worse if its not in blue.

Let's both hope ur wrong.

January 10, 2012

It was a first pick in the draft that brought Indy over a decade of success. Now we are in the unique position to draft first again, for yet another player that could very well usher in the next decade of winning. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth, and you don't trade away a chance at another Peyton Manning.

So you trade Peyton for a chance?

January 10, 2012

If in doing their homework on Luck, the information comes back that this guy is indeed expected to be a franchise QB, the Colts take him no matter what. There is no such thing as a sure thing, but it the scouting that they do tells them he has as good a chance at succeeding as they believe, you take him and don't look back.

if this were the case there would be no need to look back, just look to the endzone cause Peyton just threw 400 yards and 6 TDs on our defense. See your wrong, if Peyton is healthy this is a sure thing, infact Peytons been a sure thing is entire career, of course with the exception of this year.

January 10, 2012

luck is so way overhyped. remember the past three years? what has those top qb's done. nothing really. has any one of them won a superbowl yet? nope. and they were supposed to be the next great "elway, marino, manning, etc" they do this every year and hype up the top qb of the class. look at the ones that have won a superbowl the past few years were they picked #1 besides manning? eli wasn technicaly 1, big ben was lower, brady much later, brad johnson wasnt a 1, drew brees wasnt a 1. so yes trade the pick and if it is cleveland and blackmon is sitting there at 4 take him then pick up the qb from oklahoma at 22.

sorry man I agree with you for the most part. but Eli was a number 1 he was traded after he was picked, and the OU QB is heading back to school.

January 10, 2012

Unless you get an absolutely amazing deal you have to take Luck.
An amazing deal?
First........ Manning must be proven to be 100 percent. Not 95%
He must be able to make any and all the throws at the same velocity as before
Second........ Manning MUST Give a commitment to play a minimum of 4 more years.
Third.........Cleveland is the logical partner to trade with... BUT 2 first round picks isnt nearly
Enough.
For the pick I would ask
1) Joe Thomas ..... (this guy is a mile ahead of our current OT)
2) Both first round picks
3) A conditional pick for 2013. (if Luck plays 50% or more, a first round pick)
We could move one of our current rookie OTs to Guard to replace Diem, and move the other to RT
This would solidify our OL for many years to come.
We would STILL draft Luck in this fantasy world, and would only pull the trade if RGIII
(or Blackmon) is still available at 4
This is probably not going to happen, but If Manning can play, this makes some sense.
But understand....... Fans in fantasy land, is sort of like two fleas argueing over which one owns the dog they sit on.

First off i like your analogy at the end, I will be using that one. But to your post, yes Peyton must be healthy and even sign a career contract with the colts like green bay wanted to do with Frave.

And that would be crazy awesome if we could get JT, maybe if we gave them one of our OT. but the Trade would be for two 1st tthis year a 2nd this year, and then a 1st and 2nd next year and maybe a 3rd this year, and if they want to swap some players too, it be even sweeter.

But this is what I've been saying the whole time, I'm not a luck hater and don't think he's a bad QB either. I'm just throwing another perspective out there. Of course if Peyton wasn't healthy I would want to get Luck, altho it'd be a rough couple years. But back to what I was saying if someone is gonna offer their house(some say kings ransom) I say it's to good to pass up.

January 10, 2012

If they trade the pick, they have to be 100% certain that Manning is going to come back healthy and barring a new injury be able to make it thru a full season this fall.
There are lots of pros to trading that pick and getting a lot in return (well more than just Cleveland's 4 & 22) --- but they can't go into 2012 with and injured Manning and no Luck.

And I agree with this too, Peyton has to be 100% healthy.

January 10, 2012

Luck is not just hyped by the experts because there are football people who feel the same way about him.
If Luck turns out to be as good as expected, the Colts will regret forever not taking him when they had the chance, with virtually no regard to the return they get for the pick.

And if luck turns out to be average and indeed overhyped, the colts will be thanking the football gods. That's thing about the draft its hit and miss, sure there are "sure things" declared by the experts, but even then it's chance.

January 10, 2012

If he did go back to Baylor he would be the second player to win the heisman twice. And would have better career stats then Tebow, is numbers would be sick. Depending how it went one could argue greatest college QB ever

January 10, 2012

Those seniors have won 2 titles in 3 years and have one of the best college defenses I've ever seen.

yea I heard someone say tonight it there's talk about it being the best of all time. I imagine that's all the experts will be talking about today.

But some time the skill don't transfer over to the next level, and if this isn't the case then it's usually their poor work ethic that gets them. For example when I was playing in college a lot of the players thought they could just come in and play without putting any work in off the field. Ex. True story. I remember working out with my team and 2 other football players were "bragging" about how lil they did in the weight room and thought they were hot stuff cause they were gettin some playing time. Well if u run a 4.4 that's usually how it works, unil the NFL and everyone at your position runs a 4.4, then it's gonna have to be your work ethic(or something special) that sets u a part. Your 4.3 speed and being 6'6" 220lbs, just won't cut it anymore, ie Matt Jones.

But with that said I get what u were saying they did dominate LSU that's for certain.

January 10, 2012

The Ravens would say how incredible that the 18th pick and second QB taken (to Matt Ryan) out of Delaware has grown so quickly to keep the team comeptitive, winning divisions, and shows promise of being a starter for a decade. Delaware QB. Division II when I was young - whatever they call it now... Remember Manning went 3-13 and 6-10 in two of his fist four years. Out of the SEC. The most athletic conference in the land. Flacco had, and still has a learning curve a wee-bit larger. He played against lawyers, doctors, and stock brokers playing CB in college. You think Baltimore isn't thrilled at the production and maturation of Flacco? Who was a late bloomer at the combine, and not graded off the charts out of school. The Ravens have spent as long building defense as the Colts spent building offense - and they have exactly the same number of rings to show for it.
Why would drafting Luck mean the Colts couldn't have a veteran QB starter (Manning) or backup? Think Irsay and the Polian family know what not having a QB meant this year? Think Irsay will make that mistake again? Think Chris Polian will ever be a NFL GM again (alone, without his father getting some title in the same organization)? What about drafting Luck means the Colts can't use the rest of the picks on D or whatever it is that is needed to regain balance? Teams throughout NFL history have had balance. There is no reason why that can't happen. You start with QB - not end there. The Colts system over the last 14 years was flawed, but it worked. Should they have won more Superbowls? Maybe. But no promise of that. People catch balls off of helmets, people get tuck rules called, people don't run slants hard and are undercut by CBs.
But to your point, has a team like the Giants had balance? When was Eli drafted? Do the Giants play good D (off year this year, but they looked pretty good Saturday against Atlanta, and historically have been good), rush the passer, run the ball, and have a first over-all pick QB? With a SB win, and in the playoffs still...
I get the trade the pick idea. I was there too. I posted that on this board. No more for me. If Manning was 30-32, I would be all over it. But Manning will be 36. By any standard or examination of NFL history, that is as near the end for any QB for greatness as it gets. Could Manning be different? Sure. Is it likely? Not with that roster, even with additional picks this year if the pick is traded.

Joe Flacco was a highly recruited QB coming out of high school, he couldn't make it at Pit and transferred. Going in the the draft he was IMO the most talked about QB because he was ridiculously big and had great athleticism as well. He was also said to be the most accurate QB that year too, combine that with his arm strength(saw him throw it 80 yards in that college compitention on espn) and great pocket presence, now mix that in with an already made system and it's not a bad deal. The only knock on him was the level of competition he played against. However with that said the ravens still reached for that pick. But you are right the ravens did wipe the sweat of their foreheads and say got lucky on that reach. But as for thief defense they would say no and that they've been carrying ever since. They were just talking about that a few weeks ago. And it's the same scenario the jets did with Sanchez, he was hyped up by the experts and is doing very lil in NY, and you can hear the whispers now can't you? He's no good trade him, or some people are even suggesting cut him and get Peyton. Wow that's something jets fans want to release their young franchise QB for our old broken. But they can't yet they've already invested to much gonna have to wait for that contract to be up. Heck by then it could cost Rex his job, and the system could be back in rebuilding mode.

But our system did work but that was because of one factor, Peyton you take him out and you get all out preseason games and 2011.like I said before, our offense is based around our QB getting the ball to his receivers and score a lot of points. Because of this it caused our defense to be built around our pass rush, cause the other team would have to throw the ball a lot to keep up. So even when Peyton had a bad game our pass rush was still affective because they knew we could come back at any given time.

So my point is before we go replacing the main factor, the whole systems needs rebuilt first and we could get enough picks to do this. With our defense the way it is now we only need to replace about 4-5 guys. 1-2 big DT to stop the run specialist, a beast at middle linebacker, someone who resembles R. Lewis or urlacker, a lock down corner, and a starting safety. With that outside pass rush and our 3 stoppers in the middle, that is looking very promising.

You will have to forgive me I don't get your logic. "get rid of the only piece in our system that's not broken replace him with an unknown and we will be better, maybe not now but in a couple years"

I kno u didn't say trade him specifically, but this is what it's leaning towards. And yes I am awear that technically peyton is broken, this is all based on him being healthy and able to play.

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