DougDew

That had to do more with circumstance of PM and the offense, IMO. His talent allowed him to line up anywhere. Out of my entire description you pick out one half of one sentence to pick on? That seems to be patrolling for a criticism.

Ok. I meant some of the stuff people were attributing to him saying. He didn't really get into the negative stuff folks wanted to hear about last season's team. Other than saying the obvious like "crazy" or "challenging"

That's about right. And that's the proper definition, IMO. Just like RB production (talent)....WR production (talent) in the NFL is largely replaceable (at a higher price than a RB though).....with the typical exception of about 15 guys. And a team does not want to lose one of those guys. The other guys can be replaced. I don't get into prices of contracts, but I think Pittman's talent is fairly replaceable and it's not really at a level that you have great concern over losing. I know personalities and "horse shoe guy" stuff plays into it to. That doesn't mean he won't be resigned and at a good price, because there are other guys out there who would command the same price for their talent, so it would be a push...so why not just sign the homer guy and then tout him as being the best guy available...LOL. But if fans want the Colts to be a perennial playoff/division contender (against good teams) there needs to be a true over the top WR to complement Pitt....and it can't just be a Johnny-one-note deep guy on the outside...that guy also has to be a threat to move the chains. Deep speed, agility as a route runner, great hands....those guys are hard to find...but they are usually found on the playoff teams. JMO. Edit: Yes, about 12 to 18 guys that are #1s. Every other WR in the NFL is a #2 at best. And then there are the elite/weird slot guys that are special...Like a Julian Edelmen..or maybe even a great Move TE....that don't really fit a label.

Over the top speed. Route running agility to use as a chain mover. Great hands. Not necessarily a contested catch guy. I thought that would describe Marvin. Its as if you read things through a hate lens with certain posters that you can't see what's being said and are being blinded by your desire to criticize. Its the only way to see that what I said did not fit Marvin.

I've used it to describe talent. #1WR is a label for the WR who, above all else, can threaten the defense with over the top speed. If he gets beyond the defense, nobody will catch him. Yes, a lot of times any receiver can score when they get behind the defense, but sometimes a series of conditions makes that possible. Start with speed routes. Then the guy needs route running to be able to get separation on more possession types of routes, because he's also used to sit down and move the chains. And having great hands is a given. No point to having the first two if he drops the ball. Lines up anywhere, including slot. Gets separation from his speed or agility. He's probably not the WR that the QB will throw a back shoulder throw to, or expect to win a lot of contested catches. Those are the guys who get thrown to despite being still reasonably covered. That's the #2 WR, IMO. A defense should have to double cover a WR #1 almost as a matter of routine game planning. Probably only about a dozen teams have a true #1 in any given season. But those are the ones typically in playoff contention. Don't expand the definition just because there are 32 teams with 70 to 90 WRs getting various levels of production.

Young: 48.4% Comp pct, 0TD, 1 INT, Rtg 52.9 Stroud: 59.3% comp pct, 1TD, 0 INT, Rtg 106.4 AR: NA Levis: 48.5%, 1 TD, 0 INT, 80.9 O'Connell: Bye

I think they are the same near .500 team they have been for years that wins or loses a few more games each season based upon the NFL environment or other things beyond their control.

I watched the video and didn't hear or pick up on many of the things being said here. I don't think Saturday said much at all, other than Bradley was a good DC.

Over the past 15 years or so, its been my impression that mobility has gained on height as a metric of importance. And that leads to accepting shorter QBs, And, the short passing game has supplanted the running game in many ways. Throwing a short pass or passes from out of the pocket doesn't necessarily require NFL type of arm talent. And out of structure back yard ball requires less coordination...sticking to a plan. I think all QBs in all level of football are starting to be the exact same guy. Little diversity of talent or even body type. The QB everybody raves about this year is Caleb Williams, and he's 6'1...which is short. Anything below 6'3" I would consider short for an NFL QB. If you are going to tell me that most NFL QBs are 6'3" or lower, I would say that it shows my point....the NFL is drifting towards short mobile QBs. Every QB in every team, and their backups, with every team running similar offenses built around the short mobile guy, gets to be a monotonous brand of football, IMO. Edit: Keeping in mind that each generation of player gets bigger over the decades, skewing a straight comparison of heights now with back in the day. JMO

If you mean designing offenses around short but mobile QBs with generally less arm talent than previous generations of NFL QBs, I agree. And when you say "figuring out", that means the OC tells the QB and receiver to run around and find an open spot, because after about 2 seconds, not much coordinating takes place. It just seems like off-the-street or journeyman guys can take over for the starters a lot better than they used to. Seems to me that the disparity in talent between the starter and backup isn't as great as I remember

It is interesting though how many "no name" QBs seem to be playing pretty well. It must be the new style of NFL offenses (yawn) that place increased mobility with an incremental reduction in arm talent as a job qualification, that makes it easier for QBs to do their jobs in the modern NFL. Kinda boring in many ways, but not a whole lot of drop off from the starter for a lot of teams. Even a guy that's drafted 277 can be a good QB in 2023.

Agreed, The first round pick needs to be a playmaker/elite at either EDGE, LB, DB, WR, or TE. Doesn't matter to me which one it is.

Its a long season. Teams don't go undefeated, even the good/great ones. This playoff run is marked by playing bad teams with average to bad QBs. Lets not try to read more into this than what it is.

Still waiting to see impact/elite players at positions of high value. QB, WR, EDGE, Back Seven/secondary somewhere. I think he's finally found a LT. Ballard has always found mid-level free agents to play well in lieu of drafting elite young players. Margus Hunt, Jabaal Sheard, Darnell Autry, Eric Ebron, Mark Glowinski, etc. AR played in 4 games, so its not like he should be penciled in as a great or even a good player yet. Sometimes, that which is missed is often valued highly. Meantime, its nice to watch the Colts win against bad teams (playoff run) and to see no real dominant team in the AFC.

Easy schedule. Average to bad quarterbacks.

I think it would have been tough to fire Reich at that point after (I think) he was signed to an extension before that season. We were a playoff contender for most of the season. We did stink the beginning of 2021 (remember Wentz. two sprained ankles), and, the last 2 or 3 games too. In between the Colts won, primarily because JT busted off big runs for a few games and provided a threat. But, he also kinda stunk as a rookie....there were plenty here who wondered about his field vision, being not as good as Mack's as they remembered. Consider this: What if the JT phenomenon was an anomaly? The result of defenses being surprised by what JT did that never showed up on his rookie tape or the first few games of that season. Then after a while, they figured out how to defend the Colts. And then you get the last two games of 2021....and all of 2022. Without that middle of the 2021 season, the Colts really would have stunk ever since the Rivers season. If JT would not have done his thing in mid-2021, Reich may have been fired after 2021 and we'd never have Ryan. Without those big runs in mid 2021 that have been shut down ever since, this may have been the first week the Colts have been over .500 since Rivers retired.

Not trying to make a conspiracy out of it. Just simply trying to understand what seems an omission of due diligence. Boondoggle called it groupthink. That seems like the best description for it. Its in the same ballpark as Jaylon Jones being a Top 100 player by people who get paid to evaluate, then he ends up falling to pick 221, but then plays like a top 100 player. AFAIK, Young did not complete enough testing to calculate a RAS. There is enough tape on every other player to evaluate their athleticism, yet testing is performed on them. If the NFL wants more athleticism in their QBs, you'd think RAS would matter at least some incremental amount. Sure, for a QB like PM is not really important, because athleticism was never part of the basis for drafting him in the first place. As far as due diligence, I suppose since NFL teams are privately owned there is no fiduciary duty to be a good steward of company capital, like there would be if Tepper was the CEO of a publicly traded company. But to the extent football teams get the emotional investment from their fan base, and some level of taxpayer support from the municipalities; I do think it's important to document to your fans that you went through an exhaustive analysis of each QB before you decide to draft him (without revealing secrets to the competition). Tepper doesn't seem to see the need for that, and maybe that partly drives the perception that he sucks as an owner. We're obviously stuck with simply repeating our positions in different ways. Good conversation, but I've got nothing more to say.

Thanks and I like that. A position coach saw something and advocated for him...yeah a position coach would probably be at the level due diligence would have been performed along the way. Still a bit of a wonder as to why no other team saw the talent through six rounds when the idea that he could be a Top 100 player must have not seemed like a secret. I guess we'll never really know.

If you had the numbers at your disposal, would you have looked at them? If you were doing an evaluation AND paying him $10m dollars, would you want to see traditional testing numbers or ask him to produce some? Keeping in mind that you're not asking him out on a date or negotiating with a FA. You have the first pick, its okay if you offend him with the request. If CAR still owned the first pick in that scenario, the test results wouldn't have mattered since they didn't care in the first place...or other teams that valued him high already. That's at the heart of the matter, IMO. I can't get off of the idea that in an NFL....and world in general....that seems to value analytics more with more data, that the number 1 guy...and maybe even more QBs in general in this draft (and maybe future drafts?)...are producing sporatic data and the NFL/media seems not to make much of an issue of it. That doesn't add up to me. You could say that the results of most analytical/data driven process produce results that usually confirm what an experienced person already suspected, so its a wonder why they are so popular in other cases.

That's helpful. I'm sure you know that the mentioning of Luck was an ancillary type of comparison. I think Luck, like Josh Allen's, physical stature gave enough comfort to feel that what he did in college was not going to be hindered by physical limitations. I think Young's performances didn't eliminate that concern...beyond height and weight. And its good to see that Luck's testing cemented him as the number 1 pick. Since I think there was some direct competition from RGIII, it may have been wise to test...and not decline. Seems like Young had little competition to be number 1 from a fairly early time frame. I guess CAR's mind was set pretty early.

I understand how talent rolls off and onto a team and how priorities are matched against capital. Are you not understanding my question? If you don't understand, don't want to say an answer, or don't have an opinion, that's fine. Just making sure you understand what I'm asking. Do you think the ceiling of talent for the LBer corps is good enough? And I know good enough is relative, so it would be in your view.

I get that. Every player has a ceiling despite what they might cost. Do you think there should be a resourced effort into looking for a replacement for any of the starting LBers?

I think they made their decisions about his escapability, play extension ability, throwing with velocity on the move without having baseline numbers as a reference point. Seems casual and lazy to me, especially if they didn't even ask him to...to at least put him on the spot to make him refuse. I don't think the question even came up. For one reason I think that, refusing to test would sort of work counter to the story that he had near-perfect character. So if he actually refused, I don't think it was reported....at least widely.

And I'm not bagging on Franklin. He's playing better than his draft slot suggests he would. Its great that he is and that point stands on its own. Are any of the LBers replaceable at this point? Obviously salary cap value drives a big part of what you settle for or go after, but Leonard was thought to the one elite LBer that you can build a LBer corps around. Just wondering if any of these guys have elevated their play to where they should be the lead pillar....or do we need a better one?

I don't disagree with making an assessment on tape, and that its the biggest part, but the testing exists for a reason. Every college QB has tape to watch. Why test anybody. The lower round QBs (generally) have to test, but not some guys where the investment is huge. Seems backwards to me, so no, I don't accept those teams' opinion as being a very good one.