DougDew

No, its not my perception, You were being argumentative because you were accusing me of not accepting your facts (stats) when I did know them but was merely pointing out that they mean virtually nothing relative to the point I was making. Stroud is a better QB than Levis. That's not being disputed. Its like saying Levis didn't play well against TB because Aaron Rogers and the GB offense had better stats with the same number of throws. That would be true, he didn't put up the same stats, so what? I'm saying that he didn't play unexpectedly considering what TEN typically asks its QB to do.

Totally agree. Other than opining when one plays well or not, there is no critical mass of evidence to make a definitive opinion about any of them at this point. Especially since the Colts QB's performance can't really even be discussed further until next September, and we're left talking about the QBs of other teams.. I'd be surprised if many fans regularly watch the games of the other QBs very closely.

I don't dispute the NUMBER of times Levis threw the ball against a common opponent. I bought up Stroud as a comparison of the different offensive styles that influence raw statistics between two QBs, despite how many times they throw the ball in any one game against similar opponents. Building an offense to serve Henry's success, then Henry being unsuccessful, is actually detrimental to a QBs success. Just like JT getting stuffed made Wentz and Ryan suck more. They did better when JT was busting off runs. I don't know why you sound argumentative. Are you saying the Levis is not as good of QB than Stroud? I agree. A direct comparison between Levis and Stroud was never my point, but you don't seem to get that.

Yeah, folks can dig into this as deeply as they want. Anything reported in the media can be biased or simply misinformed or exaggerated. I don't know the legitimacy of the site that's hosting the article. I also don't know what agenda could be promoted by this article, or what the reason would be to lie or misinform. I assume it comes down to what his definition of injuries are, and if its the same definition he applied to the history of the other QBs. Since the injuries could be a result of the teams reporting something, what gets reported by one team might not get reported by another.

Oh sure, if I did not say it I meant to. The Dr. is giving his opinion, but we don't really know what he looked at or the seriousness of the injuries. All we can infer is that he looked at all of the QBs equally, and concluded that AR was near the top of the list in injury frequency. I assume as a Dr. of medical sports, he's not going to equate contusions with tears, etc, so his conclusion about AR's frequency relative to the other QBs he's talking about seems objective to me.

Oh sure. I wouldn't begin to opine about what Ballard knew. In the timeliness about the forum's current discussions about AR, this is simply a new bit of info that adds to what we as fans knew or didn't know all of this time.

I get that, and I clarified it before by saying that it is a "fact" created out of someone's judgement/definition. That kind of fact often gets used just like more absolute facts...... like a player got tackled or a player ran for three yards, etc...when there is much less absoluteness built into it.

I'm quoting an article. I'm not saying anything.

You could also ask, I wonder how many total games. starts, and football plays he would have had in his career if he had the surgeries instead of playing? He may have ended up not even playing much football. lost his starting job to another player, or gave up the game after several surgeries. Lots of IF's no one can answer.

Its seems like the NFL is trying to make a knock off of the pitcher stats in baseball. Stats tell a more accurate story in baseball because baseball is really a collection of 9 players making a play on the ball. That's what they do, hit the ball, catch the ball, throw the ball....they don't have individual battles with the opponent. A pitcher generally has a one on one battle with the batter (not withstanding errors made by his defense that extends his time on the mound) and that's why the W/L record for a pitcher is relevant. (other players have error stats, throwing out baserunners, hitting pct, slugging ptc. etc which is more about what they do with the ball) FB is all about many players battling some other player....not the ball. We all know that in FB, if one player loses his battle with another player, it can have a huge impact on the success the QB has. Not to mention the guy on the sidelines influencing it by calling dozens of different (bad or good?) plays during the game. A pitcher decides on his own to throw any one of about 4 pitches after assessing the game situation on his own. He is relatively responsible for his own W/L record. A QB hardly is, IMO. Sorry, even though the football commissioner has the credentials to form the stat, I don't see it meaning much, IMO.

But apparently AR has suffered more injuries than the others.....who also played football when they were the same age as AR. Whatever degree you think all players play with injuries, apparently AR is near the top of the list. I'm simply pointing out that the injury history does not appear to be common knowledge and it works counter to the theory that his issues this year are the result of simple bad luck. I'm not forecasting the future. But its good to hear about the shoulder and favorable prospects for recovery and non-re-injury.

I'm sure the Dr. knows this. He was comparing the histories of AR to other QBs in the draft. That's all. So if AR gets injured this season more than the other QBs, its not really a surprise, is it?

He didn't say. He just said that AR has the most extensive injury history of any of the QBs available for the draft. My impression is that most people think these injuries were a surprise. Apparently, if AR was the most injury prone coming into the draft, then what happened to him should not be unexpected or be considered a stroke of bad luck. That's how I think about it.

Goodness though, this is disconcerting: Morse -- who has not examined Richardson -- pointed out the lengthy list of physical issues Richardson had battled dating back to high school. "Out of all of the quarterbacks expected to be drafted, Richardson has one of the longest injury histories," Morse wrote. "Just because a player doesn't miss a game does not mean that they are 100% healthy or did not leave the game early due to injury." According to Morse's report, Richardson had sustained 11 injuries prior to the AC sprain he suffered Oct. 3 in the game against the Titans. They include four knee injuries, three hamstring injuries, two shoulder injuries, a concussion and an ankle injury. Richardson is 21.

See my post above. I knew that Levis threw it alot, but that doesn't mean its what TEN wants to do. You know that any team can't just switch offensives styles week to week or even mid season. We'll see if TEN transforms their offense going forward. They probably will if they think Levis is the guy.

Yes. And Frank threw 27 passes in a row against TB one year too. But that doesn't mean the offense didn't run through JT that year. It just means that their primary offense gets stuffed by TB, so they resort to doing something they don't really want to do and don't have the staff to do. OTOH, Stroud and other passing-based offenses have high passing attempts as an attacking philosophy, not as a backup strategy when their run-up-the-gut attacks fail. Levis has been named the starter for the rest of the year....and I assume that means next year too. It will be interesting to see what moves TEN makes this offseason to see if they provide Levis with assets or if they still are going to use the QB as a complement to their running game. I think understanding these deep rooted differences helps to understand what the stats mean. And then there is the element with receiver talent, oline talent, etc that make direct comparison of stats often problematic. Its not surprising to me that Stroud would be outperforming Levis at this point. Stroud was named the starter over the summer and being immersed with the starters every practice, Levis sat behind Tannehill and Malik Willis and wasn't even activated for the first 6 games, IIRC. But I don't think Levis was as good of a Qb as Stroud in college or as a pro now. (what happens in the future, who knows) And Stroud was the 2nd pick in the draft and Levis a second rounder, so comparing stats straight up is going also going to lean towards confirming what we already think, IMO. The original thread was about the three Qbs that were drafted close together. I'm somebody who believes that draft position tends to reflect inherent talent, so I would expect Levis to always be behind the other three. What would be newsworthy is if one of the three falls behind Levis......or even Aiden O'Connell. LOL.

I just mentioned QN to show my broader point. JT is supposed to be an impact player. So is Pitt. So is our EDGE and so is Defo. We just never talk about their W/L records when we talk about how good of a player or not they are. The W/L record for individual football players rings hollow to me.

I don't think that seeing him score a TD that our other QB wouldn't score means that he won us the game in the second quarter. But I wouldn't debate what the criteria should be for crediting QBs with a "win" because I think the whole concept of measuring QBs by their teams W/L record is a bit weird. I mean, if a LG is so good he's worth the 6th pick in the draft and a $20M contract when he's hurt, why not measure Nelson's performance as a LG by his W/L record? What is JT's W/L record...he just got a new contract. What's Pitt's W/L record...is he a good WR or not? I think PFF grades are probably a better way to measure individual football players play. Yes, they are based on judgement, but the criteria seems to have some tradition to it and is handed down to new generations. Having said that, I have no idea what the PFF grades are for the 4 QBs we're talking about, or Minshew for that matter.

Who gives AR credit for the two wins? And what is their basis for that conclusion? Please don't confuse an opinion made by the judgement of the credentialed class with something that's an actual "fact"'. Then tell us we don't listen to facts. We are all allowed to make stand alone judgements about if he deserve the "win" or not (which is a stupid stat anyway because its a team game) and don't need to adopt some groups' definition of a win. As far as being fair to Levis, he has an offense that does not run through the QB, but runs through the RB. Its not really sincere to have their offense slog through 3.5 quarters of Henry being stuffed, keeping the game close...then telling Levis to "go win the game in the last 6 minutes". Its a different bucket of stats than a Stroud or Mahomes who has an offense that uses the QB to attack the field from the opening kickoff. IMO, we have to watch each QB play to be informed.

Exactly my thoughts. To the extent that he could benefit from S&C training, the injury and rehab is going to put him behind in getting started on the full NFL program he may need.

I can see the difference in Raimann's body as he plays. Of course, I think his training also was about gaining some weight. Not necessarily the direction all players should take. I believe many players have managed to reduce their body fat while also gaining muscle mass but maintaining or losing weight.

He probably needs to take full advantage of the NFL's weight training, conditioning, and nutrition programs. Just speculating, but natural athlete's tend to not do that as much as other college other players. Its possible that he came into the NFL not quite as ready to play in that regard.

Sure, compare AR to Stroud or Mahomes body types. AR is probably 40 pounds heavier. Forget weird tackles, hard hits...to the knees. etc. But just routine tackles when the player hits the ground. Body weight matters. Take your own body and hit the ground often, Then strap a 40 pound sand bag to one side and hit the ground on your other side. More damage? I would think so. I think olineman hitting the ground has got to be a bad thing for their bodies.....more so than a Josh Downs for example.

Force = Mass x Acceleration. The whiplash cause the acceleration. Force is enhanced when there is a massive body traveling at the same speed that an otherwise smaller body is traveling. Its also why its very possible that a 255 pound QB might be more susceptible to injury when he hits the ground than a 215 pound QB.

To your previous comment. I agree that LT is the most important oline position, but I think C is probably second most, followed closely by RT. Relying upon younger player/later draft picks I think is another form of being cheap with the needed investment.