smittywerb
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Posts posted by smittywerb
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No trade. We need a backup with the type of qb we have. Also, he’s been doing a great job of mentoring AR.
no thanks
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2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:
Pittman is very reliable and we saw him make good catches in tight windows and get hit hard doing it. And yes our offense desperately needs a fast, lightning quick #1. lol Reggie and Marvin both were superb at getting
Open using great footwork and speed. And not taking hits doing it.
So much of that occurred though by playing with Manning for multiple years, with Manning taking every practice snap, so they developed exact timing.
So what we call Pittman not getting separation is more two players having to learn to read the defense the same so the QB can release his throw before his receivers make their break.
This was something Luck still couldn't/wouldn't do (accurately for sure) 4 years in except at times with TY.
I mean, I agree with this too. Lol
i don’t know why when you give an opinion that Pittman is a WR2 you’re saying he’s bad. I don’t think he’s not a good player. That’s why I made the comparison of Marvin and Wayne. One was clearly the WR1 and the other was a WR2 fringe WR1. Doesn’t mean I’m saying Reggie was not good because he was way more than that.
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8 hours ago, Superman said:
To the bolded, not really. I think you're talking about the dynamic, playmaking, game changing type of player that defenses have to adjust to every week. Pittman is not that, and everyone knows it.
But he is our best WR. And I think he has more ability than he gets credit for at times, mostly because he's had bad QBing the past two seasons. I think he'll get 12-14 targets every week, and his numbers are going to be pretty good. And I've been saying since the 2022 offseason, his market is going to be much higher than most fans were ready for, but that's where the market has gone. You should prepare yourself for a DJ Moore / Terry McLaurin type of contract for him, maybe before the season is over.
oh yeah, I have no doubt there will be a market for him because he’s a productive receiver. Even if I don’t think he is a WR1, a team will be sure to pick him up and there will be a team ready to over pay to get him.
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4 minutes ago, Superman said:
It kind of seems like a feelings-based resistance to going past $20m/year, but I've been watching the WR market pretty closely and I'm fairly certain that his market is well established. We'll see how the year goes, but his production should be right there with the guys you named, several of whom are on older contracts. Amari Cooper and Keenan Allen signed for $20m/year three years ago, you need to adjust those dramatically. If Pittman signs for that amount now, that's NOT top tier WR money, it's less than 70% of top tier money, which is about where he belongs.
I also think you're coming up with arbitrary criteria to measure him against. He doesn't have to stretch the field like the top tier guys, and he doesn't have to be double teamed (he got a lot of attention yesterday, though). He'll be a free agent after this season, and players like him are being paid just over $20m/year, so we can guess what his demands will be. If the Colts don't want to do that, they either have to tag him (at over $20m), or watch him leave.
Ultimately, I think we agree on the type of player he is. I'm just saying it's pointless to compare him to guys who are a tier above him at this point of the season. Right now, he's our best receiver, he had a reasonably good game yesterday, and it's unlikely that anyone else is walking through the door at this point.
honestly agree with almost all of this. I think we disagree on whether he’s a true WR1. To me, he DOES have to be dynamic because those dynamic WRs get you those Ws and momentum. Right now, MPJ is our Reggie Wayne and we’re missing our Marvin. I guess I’m just hard on MPJ because he was suppose to be this tall 50:50 red zone threat receiver and I have yet to see that from him.
I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve to get paid, but I also don’t agree in overpaying him because he’s all we got, which I’m scared we will do. If just over $20mill is where the market is going for a player like him then I’m all for it. I’m just using the current market now to show where I believe he sits.
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3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:
Well pass blocking was solid. Run blocking grades are not great.
yeah, I didn’t see the other tweet that showed both. Makes much more sense now lol. And honestly with AR and his ability to not get sacked, I don’t want to put too much into those pass blocking grades either -
3 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:
SHEESH! Speed with the 94 and Franklin with the 92?! When Maniaq get back to being him, our linebackers going to eat good.
the duo of buck and Grover is going to be something to behold.
good to see kwitty putting up respectable grades, he just has to stay healthy
and I believe Granson and downs grades. Once Jacksonville keyed in on them, they were gone. They’re young, so they’re going to have to figure out how to still impact the game when the defense figures them out. That will help the rest of the offense.
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2 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:
Here is the breakdown between pass and run block.
oooookkkkk see this makes much more sense lol.
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3 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:
WOW! Lol. Maybe Braden played so bad because he was trying to block for Fries too lol
Good to see Top Raimann putting up a respectable grade.
idk, the eye test says to me the line looked bad but pff says outside of fries we were solid. Idk what to make of it. We played a tough defense so hopefully against a weak one with the Texans we’ll see something different.
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I’m glad we chose AR in hindsight. Before, I was on the stroud train but after we drafted AR I was warming up more and more to him. Just from this first game I can tell Shane is doing a great job developing him and AR is putting in the work to get better. I will say, I will reserve my judgment on Stroud and Young because Stroud is in a HORRIBLE situation and Young, well we know who his coach is. I don’t think people realized we went toe to toe with a playoff team with rookie HC and a rookie QB. That is insane. That game was tough one. Physical, smash mouth, crazy…and AR didn’t fold not one bit. Even to the point he tried to truck a headhunter while being tackled just to get a first down. That’s my QB.
people are going to look back on this draft and ask themselves how the heck did anyone pass on AR. Someone in a sports group I’m apart of called him Cam Newton 2.0. Can got his team to the Super Bowl and was a good qb before his body gave out on him. I’ll take Cam Newton 2.0.
once we’re able to play to his strength and open up the field, we’re going to be a problem even in our current state.
man I wish irsay would’ve just traded JT for waddle straight up. Then we could’ve used our pick on something else.
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2 hours ago, Superman said:
Define "top tier money." I think if Pittman has production like he had in 2021, or like he set the pace for yesterday, then his market is pretty well defined at around $20m/year, maybe a little bit more. Somewhere in between Terry McLaurin ($22.8m) and Diontae Johnson ($18.3m).
Top tier is currently $25-30m, but we're still waiting for Justin Jefferson and Jamarr Chase, so that might go up a bit when their deals are done.
So if 2023 sees Pittman put up 100 catches, 1,200 yards, 7+ TDs, and our new QB gets comfortable with him, are the Colts going to pay him the going rate for a good, second tier WR? They probably will. And if you want someone better than him, you're either looking for highly regarded draft pick, or a $30m/year player in free agency (or both, if you want Tee Higgins who was ironically goose-egged yesterday but will probably be tagged, or Jaylen Waddle who still has another year on his rookie deal). If Richardson looks like he's our guy, we probably need to consider keeping Pittman AND making another meaningful addition at WR.
And I'm not writing off Pierce yet, but it's not encouraging that he played 66 snaps and we threw it 37 times, but he only had 3 targets and 1 catch.
Long story short, I think Pittman is one of positives from yesterday's game. And he's probably going to get a nice contract when he hits the market if he keeps this up for the rest of the season.
I’d give him $18-$19 mill/year. Names like amari cooper, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, Keenan Allen are getting $20 mill/year and I don’t think he’s in their level. Out of those names I just said, you think he should get more than them? Do you think his “production” is better than theirs? Out of those names, the only one I’d say is debatable is Mike Williams. But the other ones, I’d happily do a straight up swap.
once again, I agree his production is good, but not WR1 good. You can’t just point to his stats and say “look he’s a WR1”. Sorry, what field does he stretch? Does he command a corner AND a safety because he might score on you at any moment? No to both of those questions. If he doesn’t play like an alpha receiver then he’s not one, no matter what the stats say. Just to show you how much stats don’t tell the story, when Carson wentz was here one thing wentz-apologist said was “well looking at his stats he had a good season” but did he? Nope. Look, I’m a homer just like you, but we can’t give him $20mill or more (depending on the market) if people who are making that can do more than him. To be honest, I’d be willing to give him $20mill but if he wants any more than that I’m fine with him walking. Now I agree, if there’s no one else out there or we don’t have the draft capital to get us one then yeah, we just have to pay him because we have to have someone.
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5 minutes ago, Superman said:
I agree, but if we're getting that production from Pittman every week, it seems unnecessary to nitpick his performance. Sure, we need more help at WR, but we know what he is, and he's doing his job.
which I agree with, just don’t think he’s a top tier receiver and should get top tier money. -
2 minutes ago, Superman said:
Okay, but so what? Pittman produced pretty well, especially for a possession WR. Why does the response have to be 'yeah, but he's not a game breaker'?
because WR1s are game breakers. I never said he didn’t play well. I commented I’d rather have Ridley’s production over pittmans because his was more WR1-esque.
my original comment was in reply to someone who compared stats of Ridley and pittman to reply to someone else who was saying they don’t see pittman as a top tier receiver. I’m just saying stats don’t tell the whole story.
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12 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:
Shane going for it would of been right decision if this had been a experienced QB. All in all he did a great job giving him easy throws. But he hid risk taking was a little much on 4th down with a young QB.
It’s called adjustments. Ridley got his first half Pittman got his second half.
it is called adjustments, Ridley’s presence allowed others like engram to shine. That happens when you have a WR1 who’s getting after it. Outside of the screen, when did Pittman get his yards? I’m going to check the game log. Remember, that screen was pretty much half of pittmans yards.Edit: just checked.
pittman caught 3 passes in the third:
- 16 yards (short throw)
- 8 yards (short throw)
- 39 yards (rpo screen)
the rest of his catches came in the 4th during that 17 play drive when the jags played prevent. as mentioned above, besides the screen pass, where is the game breaking WR1? What WR1 you know that can’t stretch the field. Every catch from the ESPN log for Pittman was on a short pass.
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1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:
Moore shut Ridley down the second half.
that was a combination of Moore and the help over the top. WR1 demand that kind of attention. Meanwhile, our team saw stacked boxes pretty much all game long until they started playing prevent.even with that, if you saw yesterdays game and think that pittmans performance was just as good as Ridley’s, then you’re going to be disappointed this year with Pittman. I hope I have to eat crow because I would love nothing more than Pittman being ARs dog, but we’ve been watching Pittman since he got here. He’s a very good possession wr, but he’s not a game breaker.
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11 hours ago, Solid84 said:
8 catches, 101 yards, 1 TD, 11 targets.
8 catches, 97 yards, 1 TD, 11 targets.
One is Ridley, one is Pittman.
Even with that said, I’ll take Ridley production over Pittman. Majority of Pittman yards came from the screen. Now it took Pittman to have the vision but let’s not take away from the lineman and tight end out there that was blocking very well on that play. That play happened because of Shane calling a good rpo call, the blockers doing a fantastic job, and Pittman a vision. In other words, Pittman wasn’t beating his man one on one and going out there and getting yards.
Other than that, Pittman didn’t break the game. Ridley was out there eating. Good performance by both but Ridley catches gave his team good field position while pittman got yards…besides the touchdown. Ridley production came from stretching the defense while pittmans was from short yard throws. I mean, the touchdown pass was even a screen. On paper, pittman is a WR1. But eye test, he’s still a WR2 to me. You can’t go missing in the first half. WR1s don’t do that.
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7 minutes ago, a06cc said:
What 4th quarter team did you see?
a bad one. But that’s going to happen. If you’re comparing what happened today with a rookie HC and QB to a vet HC AND QB from last year then what does that say about the vet HC and QB? You just answered the question without answering but I think you’re in denial about it.
we’re going to be ok as long as Shane and AR learn and continue to develop. Strap in buddy, this road is a rough one.
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7 minutes ago, a06cc said:
I don’t care who’s on the field or wasn’t. We should’ve won today. There isn’t an excuse for the 4th quarter and the inability to score. No matter what you first year excuse makers are trying to tell yourselves. It hasn’t matter who the coach was for the past 10 years.
So which one you’d rather take? Reich, players looking lost, lack of energy, clear lack of offensive game plans? Or Shane, energetic, physical, inconsistent execution, learning curves?I’ll tell you this one, one is a coach who’s not doing good at this job vs one who needs to learn. Floor vs ceiling. This is probably the best this team has looked week 1 in a while.
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16 minutes ago, a06cc said:
Slow start, going for it on 4th down, and only scoring 14 points on offense. But you keep talking yourself into something that’s not there
i don’t know what game you watched, but this team looked energetic and prepared to go. Execution is another conversation, which I agree needs to be better. But being ready to play, that box is checked.
I think you’re referencing the execution aspect of it being a slow start. And if you are, then why would you expect anything different from a rookie hc and a rookie qb who has 13 college starts?
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Good
- this team looked prepared. Something we haven’t been used to. This game was winnable. Team looked fired up, energetic, and physical
- downs and Granson: when they weren’t being focused on, they showed up. Good to see them making an impact
- AR: for his first game, I’d say this was a good performance. Had some off throws but also some good ones. We knew this though. I’m looking forward to seeing him grow
- the defense looks REAL good. It’s only so much they can do however.
Meh
- playcall/play design: liked what I saw from Shane regarding the plays themselves. I feel he called a good game (besides the 4th down calls) until the 4th when we became pass happy. AR threw for 37 times today. THATS WAY TOO MANY. We need to keep AR in the 20-25 range. I also want to see more rollouts and scrambles. Use his legs, the man has the athleticism for it. Instead, we turned him into a pocket passer.
- pass rush was bad in the first half but good in the second. It needs to be more consistent to give us a chance this year.
Bad
- run game was HORRIBLE today and I attribute that to Deon. When hull came in, it was good but then he got hurt. Deon needs to be cut and we need to go and grab fournette or hunt. If the run game is still bad then irsay and jt need to make up
- punting: what was that?! Was he focused on trying to keep it away from Agnew because if he was then he was doing a bad job at it. We gave the jags good field position pretty much all game.
- 4th down calls: hopefully Shane will learn from this because this can’t be something he does. We don’t have the offensive savvyness and talent to be that aggressive. We’re not there yet.
- lack of explosiveness: I’m looking right at MPJ and AP. I’ll look at the stats but I’m curious as to how many downfield throws did AR throw today. And I can tell that the plays were being called just by ARs reads, but the receivers weren’t open. This team will not be able to do anything if we can’t stretch the field. AR strength is his arm, AP and MPJ strength is 50/50 balls, and I don’t I saw either one show up today.
- ARs running, welcome to the nfl young man. You might be 6’4” 250lbs but so are other players. Learn to slide.
all in all, I’m a happy colts fan. This team competed and flashed. We have some things to learn but we knew that coming into the year. We played a good team tough, that’s all you can ask for from a team that’s building. AR will be good, he just has to learn. The sky is not falling, it’s just cloudy right now.
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1 minute ago, a06cc said:
Didn’t quit on Manning. The excuse you guys keep making are unreal. This team and the players that have been here for years have no excuses. Slow start after slow start. It’s getting old
slow start?! This team was PREPARED. We went toe to toe with a playoff team with a rookie HC and QB.-
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1 minute ago, coming on strong said:
we have a 24 year old all pro running back that many here said we didnt need . instead lets watch deon jackson get 2 yards a carry and average 25 yards a game
we don’t need an all pro, we need someone serviceable, and deon couldn’t even be that. Go get fournette or hunt and we’ll be fine-
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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:
We thought coaching was a problem with Reich. Shane is off to a horrible start.
he’s a rookie HC. Besides his 4th down calls this was actually a good coached game by him. I put this more on the lack of explosiveness of our offense which isn’t a coaching problem, that’s a GM problem.-
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Just now, a06cc said:
Soft team can’t win week 1. No matter how any of you try to explain it away
If you’re not happy after watching this game, then come back when we’re good because we’re going to be.-
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That is definitely a hit to the head.
AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis
in Colts Football
Posted
All of what you’re saying might be true but does that make Reggie an alpha dog WR1? No it doesn’t. Maybe I need to define WR1. A WR1 is a player who can do things very well in all facets of being a wide receiver (maybe besides blocking). That means they have good hands, good route running, good downfield presence (which includes speed and ability to separate downfield). not just one or two of those things.
those are things you need to be an alpha WR. Being an alpha WR means that you command so much attention, the defense needs to know where you are at all times because any play you can break them for a touchdown or huge gain. Now I love Pittman, but he’s not that. Yeah, the defense can adjust to him but they don’t have to change the entire defense which allows them to do what they want. Like let’s be real, the jags stacked the box pretty much the entire game and we could not beat them deep not once. I’m sorry, his stats do look good, but it isn’t the entire story.
I hope we keep him because he’s a VERY good WR2 but I also hope we go out and get a MHJ or an alpha receiver in FA or trade. Idk, maybe Pierce will wake up and be our deep threat so Pittman doesn’t have to beat teams deep. Who knows.