18Manning
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Posts posted by 18Manning
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FYI - no more posts on this from me unless this thread gets back to topic on the Pats potentially playing without Brady. I said yesterday I would stay off the deflategate thread and this one has pretty much turned into that so I am not avoiding you. Please PM if you would like to continue to discuss. I do not want to upset posters even though the convo here has been respectful and informatiive on both sides. I appreciate that.
Acting as a defense attorney can be exhausting.
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I think he will hand it over at the appeal. His agent made it pretty clear that as a member of the union and to protect his privacy, Brady did not hand over this phone. And as you say, he was under no legal obligation to do so and any legal representative would have advised him not to do so. So, the league can try to ding him for being uncooperative but they had the ball boys phones with his texts and hours of testimony from him.
I don't know that it will matter at that point. Texts can be deleted. This isn't a criminal case. I don't think they'll try and get phone records from his provider.
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True but there is much here for a legal team to tear into. I don't think Kessler will have to do much except to point out what is in the report and also what is missing from the report in terms of Tom's testimony. There is very little to punish Brady to the extent the league did.
Neither you, nor I know what is missing from the report. We're both drawing conclusions based on what has been provided to the public so far. Apparently, there was enough evidence to suggest guilt. Hence the suspension, fines, loss of draft picks. Even someone guilty of a crime can often buy their way out if they spend enough money. That's exactly what will happen here. But, this won't be a "footnote". NE/Brady will always be associated with cheating, right or wrong. The world isn't out to get NE or Brady. They've been caught doing things they weren't supposed to do. That's no one's fault but NE/Brady.
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I guess we will see but all he did not do was hand over his phone. He spoke with them for hours and none of that was included in the report.
"all he did was not hand over his phone"? A phone that might have included evidence against him. I can speak to anyone for hours telling them what I want them to hear. From what I understand, he didn't even have to actually hand over his phone. NFL would allow his attorneys to go through the phone. He was uncooperative regarding the phone. If there's nothing there, then hand it over.
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True but there is much here for a legal team to tear into. I don't think Kessler will have to do much except to point out what is in the report and also what is missing from the report in terms of Tom's testimony. There is very little to punish Brady to the extent the league did.
I agree, there are potential holes. Holes that might have been filled with Brady's cooperation. In view of most outside of NE, that's reason enough to suggest guilt.
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I think there is a realistic chance that this whole thing gets over turn. Not sure if you saw Brady hired, Jeffrey Keesler to represent him and he has won many cases vs the NFL. I think if the Wells report is shown to be false in the process than Brady is vindicated to a large extent. There will always be the chatter like spygate but his appeal and what comes out of it is an important piece in terms of how he is ultimately perceived both short term and long term. And similar to spygate, if he continues to win he will quiet the chatter to a footnote ...
Murderers and felons get away with crimes if they spend enough money on lawyers. That doesn't make them innocent. It only points to the fact there's no "smoking gun". I don't think this will be only a footnote.
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To comment on the subject of this post title, I don't think NE will have to play long without Brady. Brady/NE will buy their way out of this. I'd be willing to bet the suspension gets reduced to 2 games, if not less. However, no amount of money will polish away the tarnish.
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That's not enough because there's a good chance that will be reduced on appeal. Probably end up with 2 game suspension.
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Wife comes home with an unopened box of powdered donuts. Wife tells husband not to open the donuts as she places them on the kitchen counter and goes upstairs. Husband really likes powdered donuts and expresses his desire for powdered donuts to son, but says wife/mom told him not to open the box. Son opens box of powdered donuts for dad/husband. Wife comes downstairs and finds opened box of powdered donuts (donut box deflated as freshness seal compromised)
missing donuts. Husband/dad has white powder around his lips. I think dad had some donuts, there’s no proof, but it sure looks that way.
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Read this article the other day and thought it was pretty accurate regarding everyone's position on this...
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Deflategate is stupid. Brady takes the football at the minimum 12.5 psi, of course it will lose a few tenths in cold weather. The rest of the NFL would rather be jealous of the patriots than try to beat them, and it's just embarrassing.
Not everyone is jealous. Using this argument as a defense is what's embarrassing. So, you're arguing that Wells is jealous, the commissioner is jealous? The infraction doesn't matter. The rules don't matter. ALL this is because EVERYONE is jealous of the Patriots? The evidence suggests guilt. The standard isn't 100% proof to be guilty. OJ Simpson wasn't proven guilty in a criminal court, but I'll bet most would say "yeah, he's guilty". I'd suggest the same here. I think OJ is guilty, but I'm not jealous of him. Stop using that ridiculous argument and look at the evidence.
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Except that never in the history of the game has ball tampering merited a suspension. In most cases no penalty was given or just a fine ... this IMO will be a huge point Brady's legal team will use in fighting this along with the bazillion holes in the Wells report ...
Perhaps, but I don't think it's only about ball tampering at this point.
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So Patriots fans are just making this up out of nowhere because they don't have access to the exact evidence, but you guys are convinced that that lack of access to the exact evidence is enough to prove not only involvement, but bribery, a cover up, and in the end, guilt???
Regardless of what I, you, csmopar or anyone thinks, there's apparently enough evidence to merit a suspension. I am obviously a fan of Peyton, but under similar circumstances, I would concede probable guilt. There's WAY too much here to ignore.
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don't you mean, the "report" LOL, but schefter just said on TV they have no PROOF! it's only relevant to pats haters like you, 100 days and still nothing but assumptions, zero evidence, nothing but "probably" and "generally" written everywhere, no proof stop sipping the haterade
I think most would look at that statement as funny, not hateful.
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Well, I'm sure this has been a deflating day for the Patriots. They were probably hoping the Wells report was just a lot of hot air.
You must have been waiting for the opportunity to use that.
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Sure. But a win is in New England's column lol.
So true...
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I get that. I'm just dispelling the notion that they cheated to win the SB. To get there, yeah, but not to win it. I just think it would be obtuse to assume they can't get there again without deflated balls.
I think a more accurate description would be Seattle lost the game (potato-potato)
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Not that AB was using pot for the reason I'm going to comment on, but IMO pot is one of those issues in a "gray" area. There is no black and white answer in some scenarios. In my example, a family member has dealt with many issues of the head, i.e. depression, chemical imbalance, the list goes on. She has been prescribed various man-made, brain altering medications over the years to try and help. One day, this person called me and said she hasn't been so happy in years. She stopped taking all her medications, and started smoking pot. Not smoking to the point she was constantly high. I would much rather see this person smoke pot then popping 3-6 different medications at once EVERY DAY. I'm pretty sure pot is still illegal in the state she resides, but I'm okay with her smoking.
On the flip side, there are many people that take advantage of "medical marijuana". I need it because my toe hurts, my arm hurts, my joints (no pun intended) hurt and so on.
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Not saying it wasn't stupid. But he's not a bad guy because of it.
I agree. He's not a bad guy because he got caught with pot. I don't smoke pot, but I know a few people that do. They're not bad people either, or even what I would call a "pot head". It's illegal in most places, but so was alcohol at one time. BTY, I don't drink either, so I'm not supporting what I consider bad habits as far as health is concerned. I think there are much worse things out there than someone that might smoke pot on occasion. STILL STUPID TO GET CAUGHT!
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Making inferences is all we can do at this point.
Expand on "you people"?
Assuming you had said what I thought you said, "you people" meaning people that come up with totally unbelievable posts. There are many such posts in this forum.
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Making inferences is all we can do at this point.
Expand on "you people"?
Actually, I misread your post. I thought you said because the QBs for the Colts and Ravens had small, weak hands they would become obsolete. I thought "that's ridiculous, never shook the hand of Luck, but I would guess as he's a pretty big QB, his hands and strength are fine."
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The year after Manning left Tennessee they went 13-0 and won the national championship with Tee Martin, a 5th round draft pick that failed in the NFL. What does that say about Manning?
In 1968 Unitas got injured and a career backup in Earl Morrell came in and lead the Colts to a 13-1 season and won the NFL Championship, and some consider that team the best team in NFL history. Morrell won the MVP that season. What does that say about Unitas' resume being on those great Colts teams?
In 2000 the Pats when 5-11 and were 0-2 when Brady took over for Bledsoe, went on to go 11-3 and win the SB, what does the 5-13 pats say about Brady with that same team?
Matt Cassell went 10-5 with the awful Chiefs a few years after going 10-5 with the pats, what does that say about Matt Cassell?
Bottom line it is not an absolute plug and play as you make it out to be, otherwise Unitas is just along for the ride with the Colts, Brady saved a struggling franchise and Manning can't win the big one and once he is gotten out of the way his team can finally get to the promise land. But you and I both know those are not the storylines and realities, and neither is what happened in 2008. it is continuum among the teams and players, and it is not just a plug and play logic.
QBs help their teams to win but you need a good team around them along with great coaching. I think a great QB can make a difference in a few games, but it is not a great as some may think.
I'm not making out to be a simple plug and play. There are a lot of dynamics, moving parts. It is a team sport after all. All I'm suggesting is NE would be an excellent team even without Brady, assuming they had another top QB in his place. I am complimenting the NE team. That doesn't mean the team will necessarily be good in 5 years once/if Brady is gone. The team may not be as good. BB may be gone. As I posted before, I think it's a little easier to tag a team as the best than a single player.
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I'm not saying that the taping want against the rules; it was, and BB admitted that he had misinterpreted the memo. But the "advantage" was blown out of proportion . All the recording did was allow a faster way of recording something that easily could (and was) done by hand.
Excellent! We finally agree on something. And that was a non-belittling, non-defensive response.
Discussing the Patriots w/o Brady (merge)
in NFL General
Posted
Key word DEFENSE.