Flash7
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Posts posted by Flash7
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Superbowls are won by teams. Manning may have won more superbowls if he had a more complete team. As for Luck, it all depends on what type of team he plays on. If he's on the Browns, you're right, he will not win.I doubt Luck produces that
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Jim Irsay has stated that Peyton Manning will be a Colt if he is healthy. The questions really lies with Manning's health.
There are a few obvious scenarios that can play out based on his health.
1. Peyton is healthy and plays next year with the Colts.
2. Peyton is not healthy and does not play (retires or is released.)
I was just thinking of the following scenario:
Peyton is not healthy enough to play and has not been cleared to play by March 8th, however, he has shown signs of recovery and is almost ready to play. According to the doctors, he would need a few more months of recovery before he can be cleared to play. I think Irsay would pay his bonus and Manning then remains a Colt. Irsay will draft Luck and Luck will play in the preseason games and the first 5-6 games of the season until Manning returns. This will provide Luck valuable experience. Manning will have a lot of incentive to work with Luck and teach him. And those opposing the Luck pick will then see this situation as the best of both worlds as he will come in and contribute to the team right away without pushing Manning out.
This may be a likely scenario as we know that Irsay likes Peyton and has been willing to pay him. Luck is a dynamic prospect that Irsay may not want to pass on, and until now, Manning's still rehabbing. It appears that this scenario will allow Manning more time to rehab and come back without rushing to meet the March 8th deadline.
Would this scenario change your mind about drafting Luck if you weren't a Luck supporter?
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Irsay has said that money will not be the deciding factor on Manning, rather it's his health.
There are a few obvious scenarios that can play out based on his health.
1. Peyton is healthy and plays next year.
2. Peyton is not healthy and does not play (retires or is released.)
I was just thinking of the following scenario:
Peyton is not healthy enough to play and has not been cleared to play by March 8th, however, he has shown signs of recovery and is almost ready to play. According to the doctors, he would need a few more months of recovery before he can be cleared to play. I think Irsay would pay his bonus and Manning then remains a Colt. Irsay will draft Luck and Luck will play in the preseason games and the first4-5 games of the season until Manning returns. This will provide Luck valuable experience. Manning will have a lot of incentive to work with Luck and teach him. And those opposing the Luck pick will then see this situation as the best of both worlds as he will come in and contribute to the team right away without pushing Manning out.
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Regarding paying Bob Sanders, it was unfortunate that he always found a way to get injured. The difference with the two scenarios are that Bob usually had different injuries, and usually started the season but didn't finish the season.Well how many years was Bob Sanders paid before we had no choice but to release him? My count was way more than one. Don't think Peyton had this in his plans it was just something that happened. If he is healthy I surely hope he plays and retires a Colt. If he can't play I think he will retire and only Peyton will know how he feels as his playing ability and his quality of play. He knows his body better than anyone else. When playing he has always given 100% and if he can't do so I think retirement may be his only option. JMO of course.
Also, we would all agree that for the most part, we probably shouldn't have paid Bob all of that money. It was a mistake to do that. Now just because we made the mistake of paying Bob when he didn't play doesn't mean that we have to continue with that same line of logic when applied to Manning.
I hope Manning does return healthy.
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I think that most people feel that RGIII is a project. I think he may be more than just a project. From what we've been able to see from Cam Newton is that when he ran out of options to throw to, he was very effective as a runner. RGIII has that ability as well. He's very elusive and incredibly fast. He may be able to keep the chains moving.He is also a very good passer and may be further along than most would give him credit for. The problem is that he will not be able to sustain this type of play with his size. Even Tebow at 6'3" and 235lbs has taken a beating.I would also be happy with either but I would prefer the Colts taking Luck over Griffin because with Luck your getting i guy who most experts think can come in and contribute from day 1. While with Griffin you have a guy with a lot of potential but a guy who is going to be a project and might take a while to really adjust to playing in the NFL.
Interestingly enough, Luck is 6'4" and 240lbs, and he runs a faster 40 than Tebow. I vote Luck over RGIII, but feel that RGIII can be incredible.
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I'm okay with Luck having a little attitude. You know who else had a little attitude? The same person who told Irsay that he will kick his butt for the next 15 years if they didn't draft him. That's right...Peyton Manning. I'm not saying that Luck is Peyton. I'm just stating that having a little attitude doesn't bother me.My problem with Luck is that.....
1. He doesnt seem to have speed on his balls theyre slow and lack revolutions his game in the NFL will solely be on timing
2. He seems to have a little attitude underneath all the acting for the cameras and we saw a little glimpse of it after the fiesta bowl "if such is life"
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Massoli and Darron Thomas were both QBs that can run and throw, more similarly to RGIII. I am aware that Luck can also run very well, but I see RGIII as a better fir for the Oregon offense. Anyways, I highly doubt that our next coach will be from the college ranks, much less somenone that runs a spread attack.I don't think it's relevant. The Ducks are a running team. Any quarterback with a reasonable degree of athleticism and accuracy could succeed in his system.
But more importantly, Chip Kelly's system won't work in the NFL.
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Unfortunatley, that's what the problem ended up being. If we had actually made good draft decisions and had good coaching, Manning would not have had to carry the team. Since we missed in the draft and failed to address the same issues that have plagued us for years, the inability to stop the run, poor special teams, etc... it appears that we've build the team only around Manning. It was not the intent, it was just the end result. If the Colts draft Luck, it doesn't mean that we will continue to miss on our future draft picks. We can draft Luck and still draft other outstanding players that can contribute to this team.The point and the problem is building around one player again and putting all your eggs in one basket...what if luck isn't what they say he is.. It's back to square one
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Build around luck and have the same problems in 10 years that Manning has had his whole career?
A lot of the problems that Manning has had throughout his whole career are due to some bad drafts and some bad coaching. We missed on Anthony Gonzalez, Ugoh, Hughes, and some others, which had caused the overall talent of the team to decline. We now have a new GM and will have a whole new coaching staff. We cannot project the shortcomings of the previous staff to our future.
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The college game and the NFL game are different. You can be really good at one and not the other. RGIII was a very good college player, as was Luck, however, Luck is considered a better pro prospect. Not that RGIII may not be a good pro prospect, but the majority of "those in the know" feel that Luck is the better option.oh and if Luck is so darn good, how come RG3 was chosen the best player in college?
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Hypothetically, if he was hired, would this make RGIII a better fit? Just asking...
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It appears to me that on most occasions when addressing Peyton, Irsay always has said that if Peyton is healthy, he will be in a Colts uniform next year. He has stated this quite publicly. I would rather move forward with that than with the speculation that surrounds this situation.
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You are right, it is specualtion. However, I would point out that he did mention he would like to draft a QB. It just so happens that we have the first pick. And it also just so happens that a very highly touted QB prospect is projected to be the first pick. So you are right that it is speculation, however, if someone said that there are strong signs that we may be drafting Luck, I would say they have a good point.Not a fact.its speculation.He's not a member of the indianapolis colts.
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I don't think that anyone's pushing Manning out of the door. If Manning was healthy, this all would be a non-issue and the chances of the Colts trading the first pick would be great. But with Manning's health still a concern, the Colts are now in a bind and have to make a really difficult decision.The big question is how would u feel if u were manning and u did all that for a team and they our pushing u out the doorThks for 13 years bye luck u ready
If I were Manning, I would understand this. The Colts paid me my salary to NOT play this year in hopes that I could recover. What more could I expect from my team?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, and please forgive me if I misintepreted your statement, but it appears to me that you are saying that most Super Bowls have not been won by a #1 pick. You also stated that there is talent outside of the first pick.
I addressed both of your statements by stating that if most Superbowls are now won with the first pick, then we and all other teams shouldn't covet the first pick. It's obviously not going to help win a SuperBowl according to your argument.
To address your statement about there being talent outside of the first pick, I provided logical and statistical reasoning of why that's such an obvious statement.
It looks to me that you may be inferring that it's a better course to trade the pick than to chose first overall?
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If he did talk to Manning, he wasn't going to acknowledge that in a press conference because the next questions would be- what did you guys talk about? How is he doing? Will he return next season? Will you trade him? Will he coexist with Luck..etc...
It's easier to say that they haven't talked and Grigson will let Irsay deal with the Peyton Manning questions when the time is right.
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By that logic, no one should ever choose first. We should continuously trade the pick amongst ourselves.Most SuperBowls are not one be the #1 overall pick, that is the correlation and trend that should JUMP out at us.... this means there is talent outside of the #1 pick.
Also, of course there is other talent outside of the #1 pick just by statistical reasoning. There is only 1 first overall pick each year and numerous subsequent picks. The odds are, there is a ton of talent outise of the #1 pick. It doesn't mean that that you cannot choose first and still land a great prospect at #1.
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How about we let Peyton decide his future? I've heard on various threads that we should hire him as an assistant coach, head coach, QB coach, and now an administrative position.
I'm not sure that Peyton wants to do anything else right now other than play QB for the Colts. Let's leave it at that for now.
Pardon the tone of this response, I am saying this with respect.
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Manning does deserve a chance to come back a Colt. On March 8th he is due a huge bonus. It's become sort of a deadline. We will need to know for sure by then that he has fully recovered. Irsay has paid Manning this year even though Manning didn't play. He paid him to evaluate his recovery. Before March 8th Irsay will have to decide if he is willing to continue paying an unhelathy Manning, which will adversely affect the team's cap situation. I think it's simple. If Manning is not healthy, we may be forced to cut him.Sure, but his knee will never be as strong as it once was and is more prone to it tearing again. And your sarcasm is dually noted.
why so quick to dump off the 4 time leauge MVP for an unproven rookie? I think he deserves a chance to try and come back a colt, dont you?
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If Manning is not healthy, then that drastically changes the picture. We would be forced to move ahead without him. Irsay paid Manning this year in hopes that we can evaluate his recovery. I doubt that if Manning isn't healthy enough to play next season, that Irsay would pay his salary and bonus for an additional year just to find out if he has recovered.And what if Manning is not 100% healthy in 7 short weeks? He's not 100% now and that date is fast approaching. Do you give a 28 million dollar bonus to Manning on the CHANCE that he will fully recover? That's a huge gamble and a big chunk of change that could be used to improve in other areas. That's why I think they are headed in the direction of releasing him. I hope he plays with Luck as backup but shouldn't we have heard some news of profound improvement in his recovery by now? If I were Peyton and my arm was close to normal arm strength I would be shouting from the rooftops that I will be back. No news in a long time on his recovery is what really concerns me and March 8 is practically right around the corner.
What we have been hearing from Archie and Irsay is the term "If he is healthy..." I was hoping to hear a more definate tone from them in regards to Manning's health, especially as we approach March 8th. This has me really worried.
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It's a very valid argument to want to trade the pick for a stock pile of draft picks. It sure would help to build the team at a more rapid pace. But I feel that we would be leveraging our future for gratification now. I know that there will be other great QBs coming out of the draft. What I don't know is our ability to get that next great QB. We may not have the first pick again. It just so turns out that this year is a fluke, we get the first pick, and coinsidentaly the best college prospect since Manning is available.How about this...
IF Peyton Manning is healthy, I say we can try to trade the first round pick to a team in desperate needs for (i.e. Washington Redskins) for mutiple first round picks for future years. Dan Snyder is the next Al Davis and we might be able to pull a great deal. And even if Luck turns out to be great, he would be in the NFC, so I don't think it would hurt us that bad. And Washington is in a pretty tough division and still have to face giants, cowboys, and eagles twice a year so we would have chance to have high draft picks for future year.
We can start rebuilding for the post-Manning era with the draft picks, while Peyton gives us the chance to compete for the Superbowl at the same time. There's always gonna be a good QB in the draft, may not be as good as Andrew Luck, but we can improve other positions and draft a qb later round of this year or next year to learn under Peyton Manning.
I know people don't want to pass on Andrew Luck, but I just think that this could be a better option instead of just releasing Peyton Manning for nothing.
Just my thoughts....
If we trade the pick, we could definitley build a more balanced team. What I am afraid of is being a team like the Jets that seam to have all of the pieces but are missing a Super Bowl Caliber QB.
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I'd like to get everyone's take on this. What if we keep Manning and draft Andrew Luck with the first pick? Would this be so bad? I am aware of the amount of money spent on one position, and that we have so many holes to fill. But, let's talk this through.
Here's what I'm wondering. If Manning had played this year, what would our record have been? I think that we would have had a winning record and could have won our division and would've made it to the play offs. This tells me that we're not too far off from being a serious contender with Manning.
Moving forward, we have to address Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, our O-line, Mathis, and many positions on defense. Couldn't we re-sign Mathis, Garcon, and then look address some other key positions either through FA or the draft? I am assuming that Wayne may want to be paid like a top grade receiver. And we can do this not just this year, but over the next few years, as Manning is under a 4-year contract. We can move forward thinking that Manning gives us the best shot to win now. We will continue to re-build the team, and when Manning retires we could move forward with Luck.
For those that say Luck will not sit behind Manning, we have no proof of that. In fact, he has said that he is willing to if that is the case. I'd prefer not to turn this into a Luck thread and focus on Manning, with Luck as his eventual successor.
I basically want to know if this is possible and a safe way for the Colts to proceed.
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I would think that as a GM you are aware of the decisions related to personnel. I am sure that he and Irsay have had several conversations about Manning. It's only logical that they would. Irsay may have the final say, but that doesn't mean that Grigson doesn't know what the outcome may be. When he was asked about Manning, it was evident that he was careful to not leak out any information and was very calculated and nervous. Obviously it's the biggest decision the franchise has to make.Just watch that press conference. The subsconscious mind has fascinating ways to display the conscious thoughts in body language. Grigson was fluid at times, even Galdiator like at the end. But when the one time Peyton was brought up it was a quick "no" folllowed by a literal "washing of the hands clean". Was his subsconscious clearly not comfortable? That grinding of the hands is his tell! He is hinding something. You dont get this job without knowing what you are doing with the face of THE NFL.
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When it comes to the decison on Manning, I think that Irsay will have the final say, however, not without discussion with Grigson. Grigson cannot be in charge of all other personell matters with the exception of Manning. The decision behind keeping manning will have an effect on any other decision that Grigson can make. As both Grigson and Irsay discussed, they are looking for a more balanced team. If Grigson is to make a decision on wether to keep Mathis or not, he would need to know if there is cap room. We all know how Manning's contract effects the cap situation.Grigson said that was a decision that would be between Jim and Peyton. Not him.
My point is that although he may not make the final decision, he will know ahead of time what the decision will be.
Griffin Says He Would Gladly Sit Behind Manning
in NFL Draft, Scouting, and Free Agent Talk
Posted