[Andrew Luck: Combine And Pro Day]

I wonder if andrew Luck's performance during the combind and his pro day will have an effect on his draft status. I am assuming that it won't, however, I feel that he may really underwhelm a lot of scouts. He will not have the strongest arm at the combine, and will not be the fastest. Other quarterbacks with rocket arms will get a lot of attention, and of course RGIII wih his blazing speed and powerful arm will be who all of the scouts will be talking about during the combine. Andrew Luck will show great fundamentals, footwork and accuracy, but that's not flashy.

Could the combine and pro days have that big of an effect on scout's opinions?

http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/2/10/2789243/andrew-luck-robert-griffin-iii-pro-day-stanford-baylor

A link of when both will have their pro days.

[Draft Rg3 Over Luck Because Of Sit Time Behind Peyton?]

I beg to differ on that. you dont necesarily have to take Luck. because even RG3 by some analyst has been projected as a number 1 draft pick. and sorry but for a QB who says he wants to start right away but needs to talk to his DAD about sitting under manning if the colts bring him back is not mature enough and shows he cant make decisions on his own...MEANING he was nothing like peyton manning in college as some like to compare him. it reminds me of possibly another Eli/Rivers situation a few years ago where Mannings dad stepped in and said he didnt want eli in san diego. but the best thing to do would be to draft luck, trade him to cleveland when the 4th pick comes up, draft RG3 get the browns other 1st round pick, and second round pick and next years first round pick and there you have it its set

If RGIII is projected to be such a high draft pick, then why would the browns want to trade so much to get Luck? Why wouldn't they stay at #4 and draft RGIII?

[The Decline And Retirement Age Of Great Nfl Qbs]

Wercolts, I think that we see things differently and that's perfectly fine. That's the beauty of the forum. We can express our thoughts freely and share with others how we see things.

I would like to point out that I am a huge Manning fan, and do not have anything against him, or an agenda.

Like you, I am trying my best to be objective. When given data, I review it and formulate an opinion. Here is what I see:

1. Although we do do not have data that specifically relates to Manning's exact situation, the set of data that is provided is probably the closest that we can find to how it would relate to Manning. It clearly shows that there is a decline with numerous other high performing QB's in their mid 30's. I tend to think that time is just and has no favorites, and therefore will treat Manning the same.

2. I do not think that the game has changed that much. In essence, it's still very much the same. The hit that Manning took during the Redskins game is the reason for his 3 neck surgeries is proof that he is subject to injuries, in this era of football.

3. Every player has a date when they will retire. It is also conceivable that player's productivity can decline over time. If I were to ask you if a player, (not named Manning, but just an unknown player) had played at a high level, then had 3 neck surgeries and is now feeling the effects of the surgeries in lack of arm strength, didn't play for a year due to related health issues, and is turning 36 years old, would you think he will return better than before, as good as before, or will he be on a decline? I think that most people would answer that they would think he would be on a decline.

That's how I see the situation. Please note that this is to clarify my point of view and not to be arguementative.

[The Decline And Retirement Age Of Great Nfl Qbs]

A year off may extend a career and we do not have any verifiable information on arm strength. Also we're talking about a different game that Peyton plays in as compared to the players from the 70's 80's 90's and even the early 2000's, not exactly apples to oranges but not apples and apples either.

I'm sorry, but the game isn't that different than it was before. They are not wearing dresses out there and playing touch football (sarcasm). Look at all of the teams and their QBs. You will see a high percentage of QBs missed games or have played through several injuries this season. QBs are still getting hit, just now by bigger and faster players.

[The Decline And Retirement Age Of Great Nfl Qbs]

The statistical data on other great QBs and their decline in their mid 30's is a great indicator, is it not? Now couple that with missing a season, and 3 neck surgeries, and a lack of arm strength/recovering arm strength. These are fairly good indicators as well.

[Should Peyton Stay Or Go: Various Takes]

If anyone could say that a highly rated QB prospect should sit behind a legendary veteran and have some credibility to their words, Steve Young would be the guy. This is why I've maintained that the false dichotomy of Manning and Luck is not the issue here. Maybe the money is the issue. The health is definitely at issue. But the two can co-exist, and I'm of the opinion that Luck would be better of for it.

There will be people, especially bloggers, who look to discredit what Young is saying here, but I think he's more qualified to speak to that issue that anyone else in NFL history.

I've stated this before, but we are seeing at least from Manning's camp, an improvement in Peyton's health. If Irsay is true to his word and he wants to keep a healthy Peyton on the team, then one way to do this is to sign him and draft Luck.

If we draft Luck, he knows that he will have to wait to play. However, in this scenario, he would actually get to play right away. Luck can play until Manning is 100% healthy and in game shape. This may be all the way through the preseason and maybe 4-5 games into the regular season. This will allow Luck valuable playing time, and will allow Manning time to fully recover. Also, Manning will have every incentive to teach Luck so that when he Manning returns, he has a shot at making the playoffs.

[The Decline And Retirement Age Of Great Nfl Qbs]

It appears that everything is indicating that we are at the end of Manning's career, or at the least, the point where we will see a significant decline, yet, everyone is still making excuses for him. Yes, he was the greatest ever and played in a way where he did his best to avoid hits, but let's not forget that he missed the 2011 season due to an injury that he incurred while playing.

The hit that he took against the Redskins is the cause of all of the nerve issues. It was an on the field hit that caused him to have 3 surgeries, yet, people claim that he does such a good job of avoiding injuries and hits.

Also, please note that qbs like Montana, Marino, Aikman, and Bradshaw also had the heart and desire to want to play. It's not just Peyton that has this incredible will to play. They all did, and that's prt of what made them great. I heard in an earlier post that Manning's desire will allow him to push through this. I hope so, but the odds show clearly that age catches up with everyone.

[Statistical Studies On Age/performance Of Nfl Qbs]

what about some relevant stats saying the opposite? like my post above, about how many young QB's fail.

Joe Montana, John elway, Dan Marino, all of these quarterbacks came out of college. They were all young quarterbacks at one time. If we have to move on from Manning, then his successor will be a college QB. Why not choose the best available college QB and not worry about him being a bust, rather, provide him all of the tools to become successful?

[Statistical Studies On Age/performance Of Nfl Qbs]

name a disease or a situation and not everyone fits the mold.

I love how that new movie, Moneyball, is about statistics. and they haven't won jack......

Every team now has adopted the use of statistics..so every team is winning with the use of statisctics. The A's just were the first to use it extensively due to their inability to compete with larger market teams.

[Caption This!]

I can't wait to hear some of the things you guys come up with for this one

Luck: Haaah...I'm wearing number 7. Everyone bought a number 12 Luck jersey!!!

Manning, No...they've only sold 1.

[Does Anyone Think #18 Will Actually Be Here?]

I know that's when the bonus date is, but why do people insist that a decision has to be made now, or even before then? If I'm Irsay I wait until that date before I say yes or no, unless a miracle happens before then that Manning's nerve is 100%. I realize everything that Manning has done for this team, city, state, and the NFL but if the guy can't make the throws necessary due to weakness of the muscles or numbness in the arm then why should you continue to pay the man? Out of sentiment? Out of "respect"? It's always easier to spend somebody else's money. All players careers come to an end, be it altogether or with a particular team. The man can't play forever and to just say that he deserves to continue to be paid because of what he did, well then the 49ers should still be giving payroll checks to Montana. Get real!

Manning wants the decision to be made sooner rather than later. If he is moving onto another team, he wants to start rehabbing there, have a chance to get to know his new team mates, the staff, coaches, offensive philosophy etc..

If he's not goint to remain a Colt, then why wait. I'm sure he is throwing 3-5 days a week now, and he would prefer to throw to his new receivers to work on things in hopes that he plays next season. That's why we are seeing a full force media blitz by the Manning camp. He wants to pressure on Irsay to make the decision.

[Does Anyone Think #18 Will Actually Be Here?]

I think that Manning has been informed that he will be released. I was definately in the club that thought that Irsay had expressed that he would like to keep Manning regardless of the financial obligations to keep him on the team, and that it all depended on Manning's health.

Then Irsay completely changed the coaching staff and the GM. The Colts organization is all new and Manning expressed his displeasure, which led to a discussion between Manning and Irsay. My opinion is that during this discussion, they talked about Manning's future and Manning learned that he will be released.

Now we are seeing Manning on TV giving an interview, his agent on TV, his doctors releasing a statement on his health, and Cooper Manning and Archie Manning providing statements that Peyton is progressing and the he will try to play again next year.

This is a clear indication that the Manning Camp has regrouped, strategized, and are now in full force to get the message out to other teams that he is healthy and can play. This is putting pressure on Irsay. Manning knows that if he is to be released, it would be better for him to be released sooner rather than later so that he can sign with another team and start to gel with his new team mates. We all know that Manning is a perfectionist and that he continuously worked with his receivers to get timing down. I'm sure that he would like to continue his rehab with the new staff, trainers, and team mates at his new team.

[Irsay Tweets On Manning's Clearance]

Do you remember when Rob Lowe treeted about Peyton? I don't think Peyton needs to wait for the Super Bowl to be in town to capture the attention of the sports world.

Regardless of that, my point is that it's very orchestrated and it's becoming obvious with the back and forth between Manning and Irsay. They're lobbying their positions.

[Andrew Luck Will Be A Bust. Lock It Up!]

I'm not that optimistic about either of them. Often the best quarterback in a draft ends up being someone completely unexpected who goes to a team with a good coach, line, defense and receivers and is given time to develop. Hype is not a good thing.

I'd just like to point out that this is an unfair assessment. There is usually 1 or 2 very hyped QBs in a draft and numerous unhyped QB's. So essentially we are comparing 2 to maybe 15 or more QBs that can enter the draft. So odds are that an unyped QB can become successful because there are so many more of them every year. We just don't hear about or care about the unhyped QBs that bust.

[Irsay Tweets On Manning's Clearance]

I would be willing to bet Peyton did not authorize the release of this information. There's NO WAY Peyton would want to over-shadow Eli in the Super Bowl. How many people do you think potentially had access to the information regarding Peyton's clearance to play? Certainly the doctors. Maybe the nurses in the office? Possibly any other staff people in the office? It only takes 1 person to let the new loose then you have a snow ball. I've seen it happen many times in the corporate environment. Someone gets some info, then they go to a co-worker and say "don't tell anyone else but...". Well, that person does tell someone else. Everyone tells everyone "don't tell anyone else".

NO WAY Peyton let this out...

I think it's quite the opposite. It appears to me that although both Manning and Irsay are saying one thing, their actions are portaying another. If they had a meeting to discuss their previous spat, then it appears that they had a full discussion on Peyton Manning's future. It is now aparent to Manning that he will be released, dispite his helath. So he is now letting all of the other teams in the league know that he is healthy and cleared to play. Since during this week he has a large audience, with all eyes on football, now is the best time to release this information. His plan has worked, as now every team has heard about his physical clearance to play. He is trying to erase any doubt that teams may have about signing a QB coming off of a 3rd neck surgery. He specifically mentioned that he is throwing to receivers so that if you are a GM of another team, you hear that he is cleared to play and is throwing to actual receivers, not just team equipment guys.

[Andrew Luck Will Be A Bust. Lock It Up!]

Overall, it's very unlikely that Luck will be a bust in the NFL. Based on how he has played at Stanford, it's very clear that he has the physical tools and intangibles to do well.

Let me ask this question: How would Manning look playing for Stanford?

If Manning played for Stanford, he would be in command of the offense. He would call plays or audible at the line of scrimmage. He would read the defense and direct the offense to counteract the defense. He would make accurate throws, regardless if it was to the the receivers, or Stanford's giant tight ends. He would call effective run plays, resulting an a very effective rushing attack. He would have a great passer rating and a passing completion percentage in the 70's (even though when Manning played in college it was in the 60's.)

Luck has done all of these things. He has shown the ability to adapt. Last year he had receivers as primary weapons. This year, he had a depleated receiving corps, so he relied on his tight ends and his numbers still remained consistant. He's shown that he can make all of the throws.

[Andrew Luck Will Be A Bust. Lock It Up!]

It's possible that andrew Luck could be a bust, depending on what team drafts him. If he's drafted by the Colts, I would tend to think that we will continue to surround him with talent and give him every opportunity to thrive as a QB. If we pass on him and he lands on a team like the Browns, then it's quite possible that he could be a bust. He would still have all of the intangibles, but without the talent around him to make him successful. I think that's the situation with Sam Bradford. Bradford isn't a bust, but could've been much better on a better team.

[A Way For Manning And Luck To Co-Exist]

Nobody denies the talent he has, but he's no Peyton Manning.

Of all the 1st round, 1st overall pick QB's over the last 3 decades, none of them ever project to even reach 1 Super Bowl. Why everyone thinks he's going to do what Peyton hasn't been able to do (with the same owner in place, mind you) is beyond me.

We stand a better chance of winning more Super Bowls in the next 3 years with Manning than we would likely even sniff in 15 total years with Luck at the helm. That's mathematical fact.

That said, they can coexist of Irsay decides he wants them to, and Luck decides he's okay sitting on the bench. There will likely be no problems with Manning.

Doogan, I think it makes sense to use the past as a guide of what the future may look like. Everyone has tendencies and so do organizations. However, to look as far ahead as a few years from now may be very difficult given that we have a new GM, new coaches, and will have a new roster withing the next few years due to the turnover in the NFL. We cannot assume that because we have the same owner, we will always run the same offense, defense, and special teams. It's very possible the Luck turns out to be great and he does help us win a few superbowls. It is also very possible that he turns out to be exactly like Alex Smith and needs the help of a great team to make it to the post season. Either way, there are no guarantees. The only thing that we can do is make the best diecision with the information given to us. Right now, it's that Manning is not yet healthy enough to play.

[Colts Record Of Developing Bench Qbs]

Is it mandatory to take a QB this year? You seems to think so but if Manning is healthy why cant we take one next year? Its already turning out to be a strong class next year, with a few juniors returning to join the few talented sophmores. If we where to trade we would have 2 first round picks next year, putting us in position to grab one of the QBs or trade up for one with the picks.

Im not saying which way is the better choice, but if the colts want a QB this year contrary to what Luck supporters believe it does not have to be Luck. And if the Colts dont take Luck they dont have to use a 5th to grab the QB for the future, that would be silly and i would suggest very few are actually suggesting that.

We cannot move up in the draft next year to get a quarterback. The whole point of trading the 1st pick this year is to gain more players that can contribute to the team right away. It does not make sense to gain picks this year and then trade them away next year to move up in the draft to get a lower rated QB than Luck.

[Luck Or 4 First Round Picks In Next 2 Years?]

so their are 32 gm's in nfl football and all 32 stated to mort they would take andrew luck with the first pick.. so i take it you know more than all the gm's in the nfl? i imo i will stck with the experts..draft luck number 1..can't see every gm in the nfl being wrong..but then again maybe you have had alot more trainng and alot more insight than all of them so may you know best

In all fairness, IF Mort really spoke to all 32 GMs and they all said that they would draft Andrew Luck, then we would have to assume that Grigson was interviewed as well. We all know that Irsay and Grigson said he is evluating RGIII and Luck equally and that it is not a foregone conclusion they will draft Luck. Personally I think that they should, but what this tells me is that the report by Mort is not accurate.

[A Way For Manning And Luck To Co-Exist]

The thing i have to ask, though...what if during his time starting those 5 or 6 games, what if Luck is putting up good #s and we are winning...how do you tell him "sorry, you're going back to the bench for the next 3 1/2yrs now"?

I'm all in favor of drafting Luck, as i know we need a back up QB now and a starter in the near future (and Luck is a LOT better than RGIII)...but i also want Peyton to be back healthy and to play out his contract n retire a Colt

If Luck is putting up good numbers and is winning, it's a good thing. When Manning is ready to play, I think that we all know that it's his team. Luck would understand this going into the situation.

As for sitting for 3 1/2 years, that to me is still up in the air. A lot can happen in that span of time. I personally do not think he would sit that long. Both would have trade value once they have proven that they could play.

[Andrew Luck Is Just Like Peyton...]

That's not what I saw on the video. What I saw was Luck going through his progressions, and threw the ball to where his WR was going to be open. At the time he released the ball, the WR was not open. From what analysts have been saying, I gather that not all college-level QBs go through their entire progression, and not many throw their receivers open.

To add on to what you've already mentioned, Luck did not have all day to throw. The entire play lasted about 4 seconds and Luck released the ball in 2.5 seconds, it was a slant/ in route so it couldn't have taken too long.

I can understand why you may not be impressed, Ramblinwreck. It was just one play and it looked rather simple. However, if you add this type of play and Luck's ability to read defenses for an entire season that resulted in a 71% completion percentage, it starts to become more impressive. Also, defensive coordinators will plan for Luck, knowing that Luck is a very good QB. They will do their best to disguise coverages and pressure him, yet Luck has been consistent all year. If you take all of that into consideration, it does become very impressive.

[Luck Or 4 First Round Picks In Next 2 Years?]

That's weird, because I think that trading the #1 pick is the no-brainer decision. Drafting Andrew Luck is not logical as it just doesn't add up...

I would buy into your argument a little more if we knew for certain that Manning was going to play next season. As of right we do not know. In fact, Manning doesn't even know. As of right now, our starting QB is Dan Orlovsky and therefor I think that the QB position is a position of need.

[Griffin Says He Would Gladly Sit Behind Manning]

How do you know this? his college O line is better than our current one and its not like he played in the SEC hes not running away from NFL defenses in the pocket

Neither has RGIII, but you can see quickness and atheletic ability in both players regardless. Playing in the SEC does not guarantee success in the NFL at the QB position. If this were the case, all good QB's would come from the SEC.

[The Luck Era]

without Peyton Manning were as bad if not worse than the Browns

This year we were, no doubt. We have a lot more potential. And as a Luck supporter, I would argue that with Luck we would be a lot better at the QB position than this years crop of QB's (Painter, Collins, Orlovsky), which will translate to an overall better play by the team.