ColtStrong2013

But can he also drop a 4th and 1 pass? That’s the real question…

if we are using hindsight, then had he made it, we could have tied at the end instead of going for it on 4th and 1. He had just made a 50 plus yarder at the end of first half. It had the distance, just a few inches too far right. Steichen trusts his players. What else is he supposed to do?

it’s personnel. Nothing here is personal… 😀

My last post on the playcall. hindsight- it’s 20/20 vision. Everyone uses hindsight following plays and games. But hindsight doesn’t matter on a playcall, what matters is logic. Shane Steichen called in to Minshew to try and draw the defense offsides after 3rd and 2 fell well short. Try and draw them off ,take the timeout. Gives us a moment to see how they line up and discuss it going into the timeout. What does that discussion look like? Well for one, JT getting stuffed for no gain or not enough to get that first down on 4th, not just once or twice on that very drive, but four times. Take running off the table as a low percentage chance with the look the defense gave. What look? Man coverage with what, 7/8 guys stacked in tight? What is a high percentage chance? Goodson in the flat. Not expected, Pittman picking, have practiced it flawlessly. How many coaches discussed this? More than just Steichen in his head. Analytics, scooter, minshew all in on the discussion during a lengthy timeout. Play was wide open as designed. The throw and catch was not as designed. That isn’t a playcall issue, that’s a player execution issue. “Well playcall and execution are one and the same.”only in hindsight. The logical thing is to think through this analytically and without prejudice of using hindsight that it wasn’t executed or that it would have been higher chances of success doing something differently. It wouldn’t have been. They used logic to design an open play concept and it worked, except for the execution of two players. “Jonathan Taylor had 188 yards and is your best player. He should have been catching that ball” - Well, would it be open, or keyed on forcing the decision further into Minshew’s hands? Would he catch it? Idk, he has a bad thumb and now a bum heel. He ran out of bounds conservatively twice on this set of downs instead of sticking his nose in and gaining the necessary yards to avoid this situation. Can he even get us another yard? What was his comments like coming off the field? These aren’t things we even know, but the coaching staff does and they weighed it all and called a perfectly designed and well prepared play that failed only because the throw and catch weren’t executed. From here, hindsight can be used as a piece of data. We now know that play to Goodson isn’t as high percentage as we thought. Find someone new, because it still works as a playcall with a qb/pass catcher that can execute it. But it didn’t work as data last night because the data they had on it was from practicing it which by Minshew’s accounts was perfect.

He’s just grumpy. I think we all are today.

love you old man- but, he’s got CJ stroud. Every single player and coach said it- he was everything to them this year. and I didn’t realize going from the 4th pick in the draft to a couple of plays away from a division title with a backup qb is heading south. Living in different world than you I suppose

I’ve seen more contradiction from the fans arguing about this play than I’ve ever seen seen on this forum. Hence the logic statement. It was also a sarcastic joke. lol. But go on with the butt hurting

tough pill to swallow. Lawrence just watched a rookie fly by him as the one to chase in this division… and he’s got two more that are going to be catching up quickly

New banner going up 2023 Almost division champions

It’s too much logic for a lot of posters on this forum doug. We’ve been pounding it for hours.

I woke up this morning- after very little sleep- feeling pretty good about the future of Colts football. No uncertainty at head coach, just lots of film and learning to do this offseason for him, maybe some assistant coaching decisions… no uncertainty at who our qb is going to be in 2024. Pretty good core of guys to build on. The hunger this team is going to feel going into the offseason and into the 2024 season is immense. Let it stew.

I think he missed, because he was inaccurate pretty much all night long.

At this point, you won’t do anything but watch what happens isn’t that right?

he caught 6 of 7 targets coming in (85%) and was wide open with the ball put in his hands. that’s a pretty dang high percentage playcall. As @Superman said, it’s not like he was asked to do something crazy. It was a layup.

it was in the words of Chris Ballard “a layup.” shane Steichen gave minshew and Goodson a layup and they missed it. And I think they’ll both be elsewhere in 2024 because of it.

this is my feeling. After hearing the presser, it was obvious this was a designed play that had been practiced often. Not to JT, not to moss, not to anyone else, but to “our pass catching back, Goodson.” Minshew stated they made that throw what seemed like a million times. So the playcall and the personnel and the execution is practice all pointed towards that play, and it didn’t translate to the game field. Unfortunate? Yes. Emotional? Very. Bad play call? Absolutely not.

heel was likely a factor. Might have even influenced the final play call. He touched the ball 9 of the 12 plays to end the game. With an injured foot.

it is a big deal. He was pushed out of bounds on 1st and 10 and 2nd and 8. Had he gotten an extra half yard on those plays, that 4th down doesn’t even happen… so yes, it does matter.. and it might be why he didn’t get the ball on 4th and 1.

he was stuffed twice on that drive for no gain, and barely got a yard on 3rd and 2. They came out up tight and in man coverage. I get the concept. I do. I was frustrated afterwards that we didn’t live and die by JT, and even posted on the forum. It might have even been at the beginning of the thread. But then to listen to Steichen and minshew speak on the playcall, and knowing the facts, which is that it was a great call and it was open and it was dropped by a guy they say has executed in practice time and time again… I cannot bring myself to be angry at it. because for me, at the end of the day as I’ve stated here- we were 1-11 on third down, and sub 150 passing. Minshew wasn’t good enough to win this game. JT made some questionable decisions running out of bounds the last few plays instead of sticking his nose in it and cutting it in. They didn’t make the plays to win. It’s never about one play, especially when it’s drawn up to do exactly what it’s supposed to- get the ball to a pass catcher. It shouldn’t matter who it is. The open guy is the answer. Catch the ball.

no- he said they called the timeout because they saw them in man coverage. they called the play- which was Goodson in the flat with Pitt picking. I said it wouldn’t work Jt. he didn’t outthink himself. He dialed up a play to get the ball to an open pass catcher and it was dropped. Its not hard

play call and execution are not mutually exclusive. Andy Reid has dialed up plenty of perfect play calls- and executed perfectly by his star qb only to be dropped by kadarius toney. They aren’t failed play calls. They are drops by a professional football player.

lol. Please re-read what you just wrote. “you can’t act like that’s not why they lost the game.” followed by “I said it wasn’t the only reason they lost.” im not sure it can both man. I’m not sure.

pretending that a wide open dropped pass was a bad play call by the coach and the reason we lost versus the 10 failed third down conversions is also nonsense.

no he said that Goodson was the pass catcher in that specific play they had practiced. They wouldn’t have ran that play with JT, and had they done so, he would have been keyed on, putting the decision even more in Minshew’s hands… the play was there and it was dropped. Hindsight is funny. Everyone is a genius with it. I don’t know. But several.

now you are just making stuff up to try and justify your point. What drop issues are you talking about? 7 targets 6 receptions this year. if it wasn’t the only reason they lost then it can’t be why they lost. That’s very contradicting. Has he made the catch, they still have to score the touchdown and kick the extra point/keep them from scoring again. It’s not why they lost, but it was the end of the game.