jwilli69
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Posts posted by jwilli69
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wth are you saying? Manning is not 100% and even he acknowledges that. He wants and hopes to be cleared this year to play football again and has vowed to make it back. Many players have said that and then never made it back or were shells of themselves. I honestly believe that Irsay will pay Manning his contract if he is able to throw the ball with his normal zip, or at the very least showing improvement that makes the org feel confident he will be at his normal self come Aug/Sept of this year. If he is cut, it will not because Irsay is cheap and opted out of his contract, it will be because he feels he will not be the same player he once was and a wounded duck is just that. I want what is going to help this team move forward and win for years to come. You have appeared to take the stance that no matter what PM's outcome is, if he is cut, Irsay is a cheap punk trying to save money when in fact, it is a business decision to let go of your most productive player over the years.
It is kinda like that printer person, who all his life used manual presses and diesets to do his job, now 25 years into his career, the machine is failing and the alternative is a new more modern machine. The person is ticked that his world is changing and how good the old machine is if only you would spend $100,000 to repair it (for this year) only to have it breakdown over and over and possibly threaten your business survival to the competition down the road with the new digital printer press. Sometimes, you just have to move on from something that is not working as well as it was even though you were very comfortable with the old one and it worked very well to make you the leader in the industry.
If you can separate those two things (money vs injury) you will be able to get over this issue much easier. If you continue to just believe that Irsay is "dumping" Manning to avoid paying him, well, I suppose nobody here can rationalize that with you.
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Just got done watching a segment of M&M and of course the topic is where might PM go when/if he is cut next week (from Schefter's mouth). They went through a bunch of places with Arizona fitting the bill of what Manning would be looking for. They mentioned Seattle but dismissed that being someplace he would like to go, not sure why thats the case. Here is what I see:
AFC North- I just can't see him wanting to finish up a career in any of those citys with possibly the exception of Baltimore and I think Baltimore would be wise to stick with Flacco in the long term rather than flirt with a short term Manning trial. No way in Cleveland and the other 2 teams are set at QB.
AFC East- Again, I can't see him going to play 2 games a year against the Pats for the division win. I don't think it will be good to have both Mannings in New York either so I don't see that working out well. Also a lot of outdoor cold games to be played, who wants that?
AFC South- Houston has a very good QB now, Jax won't spend that kinda money IMO to get him but would be interesting although they too have kinda been in rebuild mode for awhile now and MJD is aging. Tennessee, well I think this is the place to go if he goes anywhere and will discuss at the end.
AFC West- Chargers have a probowl QB now so no. Radiers are the raiders and have a lot of money and 1st round picks lost to their qb's now so I don't see that a place he would choose. Denver could be a dark horse landing spot if behind the scenes, the bosses really understand that Tebow is barely good enough to keep them in games at best but is a marketing tool. So is Peyton and he is a winner on and off the field. KC would be an intriguing landing spot as well. They have a very nice structure their. Good RB, nice defense, players coach, history of football etc...
NFC North-Green Bay, why discuss it.NO! No to Detroit, very solid QB already in place. Chicago could happen but again, your playing a lot of outdoor cold games and the Bears have a disfunctional front office/owner situation IMO. Minny, MEH, I just could imagine it but it is a possibility. He could have Charlie Johnson protecting his blindside again
NFC East-No way does he play on any team that could upstage his little brother, not at this stage in his career. No way!
NFC South-Tampa Bay is the only spot I could see him landing, the other teams have their guy already in place. That team seems to be a cesspool of talent though IMO. Don't see it.
NFC West-I could see any one of these 4 teams bidding for his services but only Arizona and San Fran having PM taking a serious look. St. Louis is a mess and I wouldn't want to spend my last 3-4 years trying to resurrect a team in order to acheive the pinnacle of his sport, a SB win. I guess I could see Seattle putting a serious push for him. Owner has the money if he wants to pay it, the team overall seems workable and we have all seen what a healthy PM can do for a garbage team.
So my overall thought is Tennessee would be the team, if offered, that Manning would choose to go to. 1) its his home away from home and look at his worship from his college days. He would own the town day 1. 2) That defense is solid 3) he has a good oline there 4) a top shelf (weird) RB 5) and just an organization that would bend over backwards for him. I cant believe talking heads have not even mentioned this stop as a posibility.
1. Tennesee
2. KC
3 San Fran
4. Arizona
5. Seattle
6. Tampa
7. Minny
8. Chicago
9. Jets
10. Miami
Thats my list in order but I am hopeful the number one destination is either Indy or retired as a Colt!!
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This question is going to attract a lot of "true fan" preaching but I don't think it is as clear cut as some will try to make it.
Personally, I think the answer will depend on how the man is treated for the next month.
If he is given a fair shot and it just doesn't work out then that is one thing.
If he gets completely jerked around then that is another.
You paying Peyton 26 mil even knowing he may not return to form or play again is jerking him around? What exactly will make you feel they gave hiim a fair chance? If he is cut and then goes to another team and plays up to his old standards, I am certain a lot of people would be extremely upset (including me) but if he gets cut and plays on another team and shows to have a noticable drop off in his production, I will be pleased witht he org having to make the decision and what will have seemed to be the right one. They just may not have enough information at the time to make a finacial risk with PM come March 8th, in fact, if they don't know right now, I doubt anotehr month is going to make a whole lot of difference in what PM can or can't do.
For me, it's pretty simple. I've been a Colt's fan since 1963. The worst trade the Colts ever made was for Bob Irsay. I suffered for way too long and took Jim at his word when he took over. He lets Peyton play for another team and I'm done. Adios.
I will quit being a Colts fan.
Nobody is going to really miss you, your not a team fan, your a fan of the best player that has come along in possibly ever. Just because the team doesn't make the choice you would (with their money) doesn't mean the guy picked next wouldn't become the next icon, bet we would see you jump back on the wagon if that occured, right? yep!!
I'm a lifelong Giants fan. I follow the Colts because of Peyton. So, I'd root for Peyton. I would think that actual Colts fans would stick with the Colts though.
I think to a degree, this is true of many football fans. I am a true diehard Colts fan, love em!! I also enjoy watching Aaron Rogers play when he is on, I like the talent he has shown and so I kinda follow his work a little. I won't quit watching the Colts play, I watched many QB's before PM come along on this team and I will no doubt watch several others after Manning.
BTW,GO ELI!!!!!!
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Since all the "drama" and speculation is about Irsay and PM, then ESPN and NFL Network and everyone else are only guessing at best (some not even an educated guess) about what is going on. But when PM and Irsay speak on the topic at hand it is "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak. Now you can choose who to believe but I think it's obvious who should know the truth of the matter better than anyone else. ME! lol just kidding! And just for the record I would take Peyton at QB even if he was only at 80%. He will retire soon enough and I trust him to make that decision at the proper time. PM is a man of integrity!
I will say, I am glad we have had Manning all these yeasr and what he has meant to this org. Saying that, and at the expense of saying goodbye to possibly the GOAT player a few years early in his career, you just can't give the contract he signed at 80%. If you want to watch quick 5-7 yard slants, flank passes, dump off to the RB or wr bubble screens the rest of his career, you don't cripple the team for 3-4 more years just to keep a hold of the past. Now, if he can zip the ball as he once did on 20-30 yard patterns but unable to hit that 50 yard deep pass, I would change my mind because of his smarts and what he would bring to the team overall being here and playing.
Many QB's have played with a noodle arm over the years and succeeded to a degree. I don't think Trent Dilfer had a rocket arm and he won a SB, albeit he had the best defense since the chicago bears 85 team sooooo.... Its just such a tough call here because of who the player is and what he has meant to this team but you also have to look at the business model and decide whats your best calculated move to make the organization a continued great product for another 13 years and not just the next one.
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Since all the "drama" and speculation is about Irsay and PM, then ESPN and NFL Network and everyone else are only guessing at best (some not even an educated guess) about what is going on. But when PM and Irsay speak on the topic at hand it is "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak. Now you can choose who to believe but I think it's obvious who should know the truth of the matter better than anyone else. ME! lol just kidding! And just for the record I would take Peyton at QB even if he was only at 80%. He will retire soon enough and I trust him to make that decision at the proper time. PM is a man of integrity!
I will say, I am glad we have had Manning all these yeasr and what he has meant to this org. Saying that, and at the expense of saying goodbye to possibly the GOAT player a few years early in his career, you just can't give the contract he signed at 80%. If you want to watch quick 5-7 yard slants, flank passes, dump off to the RB or wr bubble screens the rest of his career, you don't cripple the team for 3-4 more years just to keep a hold of the past. Now, if he can zip the ball as he once did on 20-30 yard patterns but unable to hit that 50 yard deep pass, I would change my mind because of his smarts and what he would bring to the team overall being here and playing.
Many QB's have played with a noodle arm over the years and succeeded to a degree. I don't think Trent Dilfer had a rocket arm and he won a SB, albeit he had the best defense since the chicago bears 85 team sooooo.... Its just such a tough call here because of who the player is and what he has meant to this team but you also have to look at the business model and decide whats your best calculated move to make the organization a continued great product for another 13 years and not just the next one.
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It doesn't hurt that the weather, which has been a huge deterrent to many cities, has been just short of amazing. Who would guess our weather could be about 30+ degrees warmer than what it was last year in Dallas. I did go to the NFL experience Saturday and SB city and it was nicely done. Could have been a little more sectioned but since it's spread out through the convention center and we are in a downtown area, that ability to spread out is tougher. I thought Indy has put together a nice show and if they pull off the after parties and the high profile parties, maybe they get another look down the road. I have to think though that the elevators in the stadium will make traffic a nightmare and that might leave a stain. Never have liked how that part came out and the flow of traffic through the front doors.
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Pat mc is a great kicker but is one of the most insecure guys I've ever seen. He makes inappropriate jokes(why he was dropped from NBC twitter deal) day of joe pa death he made a completely immature scathing comment about him. I really dislike the guy as a person, I use to like him but now I just see him is an arrogant kicker who thinks he can say whatever he wants and disrespect fans.
Freedom of speech means he can say whatever he wants whether you like it or agree with it.
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I would prefer building through the draft. But getting Nicks and Grimes would be awesome. Powers and Grimes would be a very good cb combo
I agree, get a stand out stout gaurd for the oline and build the trenches.
that NT from the dolphins = paul soliai
Have they said if were running the 3-4 or the 4-3 defense?
I have not seen him play but again, have to build up the trenches.
It all depends on our cap space. If Manning comes back and we draft Luck we might not have much to go get players. If we don't bring Manning back we will have more cap space to play with.
Uh I really don't think Manning is coming back at this point unless there is a miracle breakthrough by March 8th or he pushes back that bonus date. The team will have some money to play with.
I'd prefer Brandon McKinnie if the Colts are going to a hybrid defense. McKinnie has played as a pretty solid backup NT in Baltimore. He'd have a leg up on the scheme and I think offers a higher upside than some of the other FA nose tackles.
I have not noticed the guy but the concept sounds logical and if anyone knows this player, Pagano will.
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I love these posts that somehow suggest the guy made a tragic mistake by not agreeing to come with the Colts. The Steelers are not too shabby themselves and have an aging D-coordinator. Maybe Butler has been told he is next in line when LeBeau steps down.
Yep, this would have been my thought as well. Stay here and next year Lebeau retires and you get the reins or go on over to the Colts and take over a defense that nobody has any idea which form it will be taking on. Oh yeah, BTW, you best player in Freeney has a cap hit of 19 mil this season and will be cut or hopefully restructured but will he fit into the 3-4 mold if they go that way and your other best end is a FA. Outside of that, take a look at their roster and then look at the Steelers roster, who has the upside? We will await your answer in the next 5 minutes sir.
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Shouldn't even really be a question, the Colts will always be first and the players will always be second. Manning built this fan base up and the winning tradition over the years for certain but if you root for one person who may no longer be on your team anymore, you should become a fan of tennis because this is about team and not one person. If you go out rooting for Manning if he plays on any other team for him to beat your team, switch teams and move on!
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Polian's biggest failure as GM.
I thought it was signing just above avg players to super large contracts
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Lacy doesn't really suck...he just isn't a starting quality CB. I blame the Colts coaching staff more so than Lacy. The Colts tried to force a square peg into a round hole and Lacy was exposed. Lacy is a nickle or dime corner which is where he played his first season. I recall many fans being satisfied with his play just last year. What a difference a year and some questionable roster management makes.
That said...if Pagano and Grigson can upgrade the quality of our current DB's then I'm all for it.
I agree. Lacey has some NFL calibur talent but it isn't as a shutdown starter quality talent. If he was a Safety (and had about 30 more pounds) he would be pretty good there but I do think the coaches did not help him in succeeding in his craft.I say sign him to a low rate 2-3 year deal and see if he has anything under the new coaching.
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If Pagano is any good at all and able to spot talent, no way does he ask to bring Cam Cameron on board, he watches him suck the offense in practices and on game day
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1 year in an already successful defensive scheme, is that going to be enough to make a successful coach? Young and raw so how many mistakes can we expect and will tolerate before the board starts calling for his head? I am not overly thrilled about a one year wonder but perhaps his resume is deeper than this, IDK.
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Do you find it oddly similar that the year Manning had arrived, we had a team that scrapped and won with a Jim Harbaugh but was found to over achieve? Things I see as similar:
1. Had drafted a couple bookends in Tarik Glenn and adam Meadows ( Costanza and Ijalana)
2. Had a young up and coming WR in Harrison (Garcon)
3. Had one exceptional RB in Faulk who was better at wr and blocking and in the open field than up the gut RB and Warren (Addai-even though he is not close to Faulks level; the Donald)
4. Had a really good TE in Ken Dilger and Pollard ( Dallas and Tamme)
5. Solid MLB in Herrod (Angerer)
6. DT with Ellis Johnson and Mccoy (nevis and AJ???)
7 CB's in ???? names(Powers and ???)
8. Safety Jason Belser (Bethea)
9. Punter and Kicker Gardoki and Blanchard (Vinny and Mcafee)
10. Old good player at Center Leewenburg (Saturday)
What I see on that team is a bunch of decent guys on the oline with 2 solid guys, same as us now, One budding star in the WR group, same as us now, 2 TE's that are almost identical to what we have now, Faulk which was special. On defense, you had a better group of Lb's then but Angerer is the upside on this team now, A couple DE's that were MEH then and wow now, DT's that I see as even, CB's still blow on a whole, 1 solid safety 2 above avg K/P both era's.
Of course we all know what made this team different was Manning. I am going on the premise that Manning is not coming back and we have Luck coming in to be the next greatest thing. All we need is an Edge and a Saturday from this draft and next years draft combined with what we have now and we become the secome generation dominate Colts. I ahe not really looked at the groups of people who were here just before Manning and now to feel comfortable saying this but if Manning does retire, and Luck is what they feel like he says he can become, I see no reason why this team can't reload and rock it out again and compete at a high level in 2 years or less.
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i agree on passing plays and have said the same thing for a long time. the problem is freeney has been exployted for years on running plays. ot's let him go up field and then can go block another player. he really kills the colts on running plays! that's not what i expect from the highest payed de in the nfl!
That is where really good defensive coordinators have the ability to use this issue to the teams advantage but not ours. Either Freeney freelances and doesn't share the info with his teammates, the DC doesn't gameplan well or teach well and/or the players behind Freeney can't figure out what to do where Freeney is concerned. How many times do we see Freeney get outside and then where the heck is the LB to fill that gap? How can that info not be shared and executed? That is the flaw in the Freeney game, not Freeney getting his fast butt back to the QB/RB area. Saying this, Freeney is still not worth a $19mil cap, nobody with exception of maybe 1-2 QB's in the league right now are worth that kinda cap space.
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See the FJC post below here.We're talking about the exclusive tag. The "non-exclusive" tag is called the transition tag, and there's no sense in using it on a player like Garcon, since no one is going to give up two first rounders for him.
The transition tag is it's own entity. The Franchise tag is divided into exclusive and non-exclusive.
I know that but it seems superman wants to find a way to win a dead argument.
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Everything would have to be viewed in a big spreadsheet.. With the cap savings highlighted. The problem with cutting Brackett is that from a cap perspective he's going to count 7.2 if cut, vs 7.4 if he plays. TO me that's throwing 7.2 of cap room that cannot be recreated away.
The same thing with Clark @ 1.7 savings. Cutting Clark & Brackett would tie up 10%+ of the salary cap on players that aren't even on the team. When 2013, rolls around if you cut them both then, it would be 7.5 in total dead space, but still less than the 10%+ we'd be wasting if we did it this year.
What ever year you cut/trade someone is the year you absorb the majority of the cap hit unless it comes after 6/1, then i can be split between the current year and the following year 50/50. From a pure cap$ point of view I see more benefit of taking the hit in 2013 as opposed to 2012, because we would have more cap savings in 2013 than we would in 2012 for that particular year.
If we wanted to declare 2012 a throw away year and absorb as many cap hits as possible by releasing guys like Clark/Brackett to free up $ in future years and being forced to let others go due to the wasted cap space, then that is one train of thought, but you are looking at UDFA's making the league minimum of say 400-500k replacing them.
I think cutting Brackett this year is a must do, we use UDFA or cheap FA LB's anyway and we are going to have some contracts come due next year we will have to deal with. I am kinda 50/50 on the Clark deal but he may be approachable on a new cap friendly deal. You also just know that Freeney will have to redo his contract, no way does he fit in on this team at a 19mil cap hit and he stands to lose 14 mil if he says o and cut outright ( which is unlikely but...) I guess we can all speculate and have an opinion on what is best but until we know the direction of the team, it is really taking an uneducated guess.
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There is not much savings to cutting Brackett this year.
Cut before 2012
7,400,000 2012 Cap hit if playing
7,200,000 2012 Dead Cap Space if cut
200,000 2012 Savings
9,000,000 2013 Savings
9,000,000 2014 Savings
Cut before 2013
9,000,000 2013 Cap hit if playing
4,800,000 2013 Dead Cap Space if cut
4,200,000 2013 Cap Savings
9,000,000 2014 SavingsFreeney has a 14 million base contract and 5 million worth of bonus dollars that construct his 19 million cap hit. A portion, if not most of that 14 million could be turned into a bonus and pro-rated for a 3 year extension that would drop his # considerably and extend him.
Clark
Cut before 2012
$7,320,000.00 2012 Clark Cap hit if playing
$5,580,000.00 2012 Dead Cap Space hit if cut
$1,740,000.00 2012 Cap Savings
$8,120,000.00 2013 Cap Savings if no longer on team
Cut before 2013 but after 2012
8,120,000 2013 Clark Cap hit if playing
2,790,000 2013 Dead Cap space if cut
5,330,000 2013 Cap SavingsClark has minimal savings by cutting him in 2012 as well.
Once Manning receives the 28 million there isn't much he can do to his contract outside of giving away base salary dollars to improve matters much.
Thanks for the breakdown FJC
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It's called turning his base salary (14 million) into a signing bonus, thus creating a contract extension of 2-3 years and lowering the 2012 cap # in the process..
At least someone gets it. Thank you FJC
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No.
That's not accurate. The restricted free agent top tender requires a team signing the player to compensate the tagging team with two first rounders (unless they negotiate a different compensation with the tagging team). That has nothing to do with the franchise tag.
As a matter of fact, other teams cannot sign a franchise tagged player because he's under contract. They can trade for him, and work out whatever level of compensation the two sides agree on. You're confusing two different "tags."
You absolutely can franchise tag a player and trade him to another team for whatever you want to trade him for.
IF Garcon leaves in free agency and goes to another team and has a really good year, we'll probably get a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick anyways.
I'm not advocating one option over the other. But it is absolutely possible and maybe even practical to tag and then trade a player. I don't know that that's the best option for Garcon. If we could give him five years at $30-34 million with $10 million guaranteed, that would probably be a good deal for both sides. But there are other questions we have to answer, like what to do with Wayne, Mathis, Freeney, Brackett, Manning, etc. So that kind of long-term contract might not be advisable or even possible.
I am not confused, there is google for this stuff:
There are two types of franchise tag designations: the exclusive rights franchise tag, and non-exclusive rights franchise tag:
- An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams.
- A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.
- An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams.
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He doesn't have to be worth top 5 money. The tag for a receiver this year is $9.4 million, guaranteed (less than it's been the last two years, by the way). So if you tag a receiver, you can still reach a long-term deal with him. For practical reasons, the deal would probably have to included at least $9.4 million in guaranteed money for you to have any kind of leverage, otherwise the player can just take his one year tag value and (hopefully) hit free agency the next year.
So you can tag Garcon, and then throw him four years, $25 million, $10 million guaranteed. Or you can allow his agent to negotiate with a handful of teams who are interested, and then trade him to whatever team is going to pay him.
It's not a common occurence, but it's not like it's never happened. And it doesn't require two first rounders. That's the top tender for a restricted free agent (unless you negotiate something different with the tagging team). Has nothing to do with trading a franchise tagged player. If we did this kind of trade and got a 3rd in 2012 and a 4th in 2013 or something like that, I'd be fine with it. Garcon is a 6th rounder. Probably worth a 3rd rounder.
Other option is we just let him walk and hope we get a compensatory pick in the 2013 draft. How is that better than talking to other teams about working out a tag and trade for him? We have a month and a half before we'd have to tag him, and we have a couple three months after that to get him moved before training camps open. This isn't a radical idea.
Well the tag of 9.4mil is the top 5 wr's payscale in the league. The deal on having a player tagged and someone signing them is compensation of 2 first round picks. If the guy is only worth what you think (3rd and 4th) why in the stupidity would you place a 9.4 mil tag on the guy? You wouldn't, you would just let him wlk because you would dont pay someone you think so little of 9.4 mil/yr. If you honestly believe that Garcon would not attract suitors for his services, your a little silly because he is an up and coming talent who has improved each year and this season, he dramatically decreased his drops while being thrown to by subpar QB's. We will all see soon enough what he is worth because we will either have to pay him or let him walk out. My money is on us resigning him to a 4-5 year deal.
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Yes, there are some players that are a little overpaid but no one like Freeney, Brackett, and Hayden. I think over the years, those contracts hurt us the most. There is NO WAY Freeney should be paid $19M. That is insane!
He is not paid 19 mil, it is an accounting thing, a cap # not an actual out of pocket number. He gets his salary plus you get to figure in what his bonus is that gets spread over the length of the contract. He has already ot the bonus and now he is playing for the actual salary this year which I don't recall what that is but he is not making 19 mil this season.
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Why would he want this job? He gets paid like 4 million a year to get Iowa to 6-9 wins and they are more than happy to pay it. The fans love him, there is little pressure, and he had made a niche there for himself.
I have no idea why you would take a pay cut to come to a rebuilding NFL franchise.
That being said I am not sure why the Colts would want him. I understand we have drafted about 10 kids from Iowa each year, but does he even have any NFL experience? its not like the top tier college coaches have a great deal of successs transitioning without speinding time as an NFL assistant. Carrol is about the msot successful lately and he isnt exactly lighting it up in Seattle.
Some people contrary to belief like to succeed in every way and though Iowa may seen him as a god and he has little reason to leave for monitary reasons, success at the NFL level is different than success at the college level. Sometimes people just like to keep challenged and motivated instead of sitting in the same job being comfortable. He may or may not need to increase his life challenge but it isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility to do so. Could he fail? Yep, but that is something he would have to calculate into his decision. If he has made 4 mil/yr for a bit, the NFL would pay him solid money as well and if successful, that rate goes up and so does his perks. If he flops, he makes 10+mill for 3+ seasons in the NFL and could always go back to coaching in the college ranks somewhere after if he so desired. I would think 10 mil would easily allow him to continue his normal lifestyle in the event he flopped plus surely he has banked cash.
You are right though, why jump when you have everything in hand and are on the Iowa pedastal except personal challenge.
Mike And Mike This Morning
in Colts Football
Posted
You come to this conclusion by???? If he is healthy, he is the starter for the Indianapolis Colts. There would be so much egg on Irsay's face if Manning was 100% healthy and playing on any other team. This team can improve enough on defense and with a healthy Manning, we know what he can do so if Manning is moved out, he is not progressing in his "training his butt off" and he is deemed to not improve enough to be at a elite NFL QB arm status. We know the head, the heart, the desire and his cement feet are always going to be at the highest level but if his weapon, his right arm will not allow him to make all the NFL throws again, only a team who wants to use his name for marketing would sign him to a contract that Mannings name would command.