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supremecoltsfan300

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Posts posted by supremecoltsfan300

    If you had to pick, which HOF inductee (class of 2013) would you want on your team?

    in NFL General

    Posted

    1. And generally teams, will stick with a talented player regardless of the guys personal problem. Not always, but could be in Carters case.

    2. 90-92 Carter didn't start a whole lot between those 3 seasons he only started 33 of 48 games. But still, Gannon was a future MVP, and SB starting QB. The talent was there.

    93- He also had Salisbury, and between the 2, threw for 3381yds 18TDs, which would have been 5th in yards, and 5th in TDs that season.....They also made the playoffs.

    94- Moon was 3rd in yards, 9th in TDs....Made the playoffs...

    95-Moon was again 3rd in yards, 2nd in TDs....Made the playoffs....

    96- Between the 2 QBs, they finished 5th in yards, 5th in TDs....made the playoffs...

    97-Between Johnson/Cunningham they finished 6th in yards, 5th in TDs....

    98- Cunningham was AP, despite Johnson starting 2 games. Between the 2 they finished 1st and 1st by wide margins.

    99- Again injuries, between the 2, 3rd in yards, 3rd in TDs.

    00- Culpeper was 4th in yards, 1st in TDs...

    01- more injuries, finished 6th in yarss 8th in TDs.

    So yes, Carter struggled with a hodgepodge mix of Qbs throughout his career, but regardless of who it was, they performed. From 1993-2001 the Vikings QB on avg was 4th in yards, and 4th in TDs, which is pretty darn fantastic.

    3. His teammates not liking him, doesn't have much to do with anything. Just a tidbit. But it probably does matter when your neck in neck with a similar player, with a similar career path. If 2 guys are neck and neck, the 'better' teammate will probably win out. If nothing else is separating the 2.

    4. Absolutely it should matter if the player was one of those things....This is the exact problem with the HoF, and Carters inclusion, and players being inducted in 30yrs after retirement...It should be reserved for the very best of the very best. It shouldn't be for guy who were good, and played a long time, and if it takes that long for someone to get in, then they are probably not a HoF, and if they are it is clearly not 100% agreed upon....No one is arguing Reggie White. Or Rice. Or Montana. Or Manning/Brady. THATS a HoF.

    5. There is one common factor in the 2 highest scoring offenses of all time. Randy Moss. That is not a coincidence....

    And I agree that QB inclusion is to high. Because, again I feel very few people should actually get in.

    You mentioned earlier that you didnt feel Welker, or Ward were HoF. Well after putting Carter in, those 2 are now HoF due to the precedence that has been set.

    The concept of your 4th point I completely agree with. I just think that the HOF isnt that "Greatest only" club in reality. It should be, but it isn't. An idea I heard a couple days ago was that after the 5 years are up, they vote on whether a player is a HOF or not. After the vote, it's done. No vote on that player again next year. A person is either a HOF or they're not. Time shouldnt change that. If the HOF really was this exclusive club, then I'd lean towards saying Carter shouldnt be in it.

    If you had to pick, which HOF inductee (class of 2013) would you want on your team?

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Sure, its not ALL about #'s. But in terms of QB/RB/WR it his a huge factor.

    Lets not pretend his QBs were garbage. Moon was a HoF. Gannon was a future MVP. Cunningham was a player of the year, and All Pro in Minny, Culpepper made 3 PBs, and Brad Johnson 2....So from 1990-2001 Minny had 4 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro.....thats pretty darn good....Those Qbs accounted for over 77% of his career TDs....

    And as for the TDs, its such a mirage. He benefited from a system that targeted him from inside the 10. He caught an absurd amount of his TDs, over 42% of his career totals, inside the 9 yard line....For reference here are the Top 8 receiving TD leaders....Rice had 31%, Marvin had 36%, Moss has 28% (At 6-4 and probably the highest jumping WR ever!) TO was at 32%...Tony G who is a TE is at 45%!...Largent had 18%, Tim Brown was at 28%.....

    So with 8 of the best touchdown catchers in NFL history, 5 of them in varying decades, playing styles, and teams all came within 8% of each other...Another, Largent, was bomb catching machine...and Gonzalez who is the greatest TE of all time, barely gets past him (and in fact has fewer TDs inside the 10 than Carter 55-47)

    You turn around and say its not about stats, but the only thing with Carter people mention are his TDs and rec. totals....He was never considered a transcendent talent (Rice), he never had game breaking speed (Brown Marvin Moss) and he was never physically imposing (TO, Moss, Irving). Not only that he was widely considered to be a jerk, and disliked by his own teammates. As well as being cut by a team in the prime of his career....Name one amazing C.Carter play. One amazing C.Carter moment. One amazing C.Carter game without going to youtube....He was completely forgetable and is only making it in on #s alone. Writing the story of the NFL, you can not mention Carters name once, and it will have zero impact on the history of the game...Hence why he is not a HoF....

     

    Okay here's my rebuttal to your argument:

     

    1. Carter was cut by the Eagles because of his substance abuse problems. Not because he didn't have talent.  I would also say he didn't even enter his prime (career-wise) till he was about 27 (which happened to occur after he got his substance abuse problem under control).

     

    2. Looking at Carter's QBs...

     

    As a Viking from 1990-1992, his QB was Rich Gannon who's best year in that stretch featured 2278 yards and 16 TDs.

    As a Viking in 1993, his QB was Jim McMahon who's numbers in that year were 1968 yards and 9 TDs.

    As a Viking in 1994, his QB was Warren Moon who's numbers in that year were 4264 yards and 18 TDs.

    As a Viking in 1995, his QB was again Warren Moon, but this year he played like a HOF and had 4228 yards and 33 TDs.

    As a Viking in 1996, his QBs were Warren Moon (1610 yards, 7 TDs) and Brad Johnson (2258 yards, 17 TDs).

    As a Viking in 1997, his QB was Brad Johnson (3036 yards, 20 TDs).

    As a Viking in 1998, his QB was Randall Cunningham (3704 yards, 34 TDs)

    As a Viking in 1999, his main QB was Jeff George (2816 yards, 23 TDs)

    As a Viking from 2000-2001, his QB was Daunte Culpepper, who's only good year was 2000 (3937 yards, 33TDs)

     

    When he was with the Vikings, he only had 4 seasons where his QB played really well (1994, 1995, 1998, 2000) out of 12. That's not exactly a lot.

     

    3. I don't know what his teammates and others liking him have to do with the HOF. I don't think many people like T.O. at all, yet he is without question a HOF. Personally, I don't really like carter that much either, but that doesn't mean he isn't a HOF.

     

    4. It shouldn't  matter whether a player was a "transcendent talent" or "game-breaking speed" or "physical imposing." Those are all just attributes of a player, they don't describe how good a NFL player actually was. Guys like Hines Ward or Wes Welker (not saying they are HOFs) have none of those 3 attributes yet they were/are great receivers.

    The one thing Carter did possess was amazing hands, he could catch almost anything thrown near him and rarely ever dropped a pass (which is the most important quality of a WR imo).

     

    5. Carter was part of the highest scoring offense of all time and that is a part of NFL history. Carter also mentored Moss and did play a role in shaping him into one of the three greatest WRs ever.

     

    The problem with the HOF imo is that the WR group is too exclusive while the QB group is too inclusive. I don't think there is any other WR (who is eligible at the moment for the HOF)  more deserving than Carter.

    If you had to pick, which HOF inductee (class of 2013) would you want on your team?

    in NFL General

    Posted

    So can Reggie, and hes no HoF.

    Fun fact. Cris Carter played 15seasons in the NFL. He only led his own team in rec. yards 5 times....Reggie has played 12 seasons, and led his team 7x......

    Reggie is about 900yards and 140rec short of Carter in 3 less years.

    The repercussions of allowing Carter in the HoF are going to be pretty far reaching for several players.

    HOF is not all about numbers. It's about impact on the game.

    Carter broke the record for receptions in a single season, caught a ton of TDs, never had a great QB, and was one of the best receivers in the 90s. He also helped shaped Moss into what he became.

    Numberwise, Carter played in an era that was still different from the current one. Also, this isnt meant to mean that Reggie isnt also capable of being a HOF himself one day.

    Ryan Lilja to Broncos?

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Broncos actually have a ton of young talent: decker, demaryius thomas, Julius thomas, derek wolfe, von miller, wesley woodyard, chris harris, and clady. Really the only old guys are Peyton and Champ. Broncos have at least a 4 year window imo (with Peyton or with a top 10 qb, although i doubt they'll win anything without peyton).

    Jennings critical of Aaron Rodgers

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Nothing really new, heard this type of stuff before about Rodgers. He can be arrogant and a bit full of himself at times. But he plays extremely well most of the time and wins, so he can get away with it. Rodgers always has striked me as the perfect front runner, but when things get rough, he isn't the best person for that type of situation.

    how about some happy news?

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Thanks, great to read stuff like this!

    I would have liked if the article gave a name mention to the other guy who helped out.

    Also, you have to wonder if that woman was on anything....you dont know it's your car that is on fire and you're in a "daze".....

    My Bold Season Predictions

    in Colts Football

    Posted

    What's with people thinking the Colts will lose to the Chargers? I realize it can easily happen, but I think the Chargers are going to stink.

    Well I think Rivers is going to be better. Most people would say that Rivers was absolutely horrible last year, right? He still threw 26 tds, which is good. If it's close, I can easily see Rivers choking it away and Luck doing a game-winning drive.

    I think overall we are going to regress in the win-loss record but guys like Luck will do better individually/statistically this year.

    How do you record games from DVR to DVD?

    in Colts Football

    Posted

    Can anyone help me with this? And no it's only prohibited if I sell it which I won't. I'm only doing it so I can re-watch our games in later years.

    What is the easiest way todo it and what equipment do I need?

    My suggestion is get NFL Game Rewind. After NFL Red Zone, Rewind is the second best invention made for sports. For about $70, you can get all the games of the nfl season (your team and all the other teams) from the current season to back in 2009 (includes the playoff games). During the season, the game is made available to Rewind one day after the game has been completed. For the current season, there is two extra modes u can watch the game through: condensed, which is about 30 mins and only shows the plays right at the snap; and coaches film which shows the game from a different perspective. You get access for Rewind for a whole year too.

    It's the easiest way to watch past nfl games imo, hope this helps.

    Broncos suspend Russell indefinitely & Tom Heckert 1 month BOTH w/out pay, Treatment to be provided, also theres a 3rd DUI

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Yeah but that's what our society does. The NFL apparently is nothing more than a reflection of today's society. You could never screen it squeaky cleaned....well you could just put in contract DUI = you're fired:)

    I heard someone on the radio say that in Denmark (I think) they have a one strike policy. The first DUI conviction you get results in permanent loss of your driver's license (now that's severe!). I have no idea what the deterrent rate is over there but if that kind of penalty doesnt stop stop someone nothing will.

    The worst part about DUIs and athletes and these executives is that they could afford to pay someone to drive them home, heck you'd figure there would be a line of people jumping at the chance to drive home a member of a pro sports orgainzation.

    The Top 10 Players of 2013

    in NFL General

    Posted

    Von Miller is immensely better than Aldon Smith. Smith isn't even as good a pass rusher, let alone as good run defender or better in coverage.

    Could not agree more. Justin's smith absence last year showed how dependent Aldon is on him. Aldon is very good but not better than Miller. Miller can do everything well.

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