Coffeedrinker
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Posts posted by Coffeedrinker
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Just now, CheezyColt said:
Or Herbert... or Eason... or Fromm... or Gordon...
If any QB that we don't select goes on to blow up, there will be those that are going to blame Ballard for not getting them because they just KNEW that QB was a stud and if Ballard couldn't see that then he's garbage.
Most definitely.
Although I am one that does not think Love is going to blow up in the NFL.
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18 minutes ago, Archer said:
True dat! My first round mock now has TB jumping ahead of us to get Love. It would help us out IMO...My word, I hope this happens. I don't want to be on this board when Love is available and the Colts DON'T draft him.
Then no matter how good the Colts QB does, we will have to read on this forum for a couple of years how the Colts should have drafted Love.
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The narrative that JBs game changed after his knee injury is a misnomer. The truth is The Denver game before his knee injury, outside of 1 play he looked pretty terrible. He did very little to help the Colts beat the Chiefs two weeks prior to that. And even though he threw 3 TDs (which is great don't get me wrong) in the Raiders game, he struggled most of that game and he hadpasses on 12 third downs passes but only converted 4 of those into 1st downs.
The issue for Brissett was not his knee. It was more a factor of teams having enough tape on him and figured to take away his short routes because he was not going to throw deep very often, that is one of the major reasons why you saw the amount of time he held onto the ball increase each week.
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11 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:
I am guessing that would be a violation of an NFL rule.
Also teams knowing he was considering retirement would be wondering why the hell we're suddenly interested in trading our franchise left tackle.
It's unlikely they would offer us picks without putting conditions on them... One of those conditions being that he you know. . . actually plays.
There are other issues with this, another one being that we would have to sign AC to a new contract first. (His contract is up) Another being that AC even if he is going to play isn't worth all that much because he's getting paid more money and he's in his 30's. By himself with a moderate sized contract you could maybe pull a 5th for AC.
Thanks... it was a joke.
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17 minutes ago, stitches said:
We don't really NEED need a WR at 13. BUT... I kind of feel like there is clear separation between Ceedee and Jeudy and the rest(maybe you can include Ruggs in this group). This is not meant to disparage the rest, because I love this class and you will probably be able to get R2 type of talent in R4 this year, the class is THIS stacked. But this team still needs an X receiver.. or generally an outside receiver who can be a guy that the opposing coaches need to plan for, a guy who can consistently beat his man and be able to playmake be it in the air or after the catch, a guy you would need to double if you are playing on Superbowl Sunday.
My point is... if Lamb or Jeudy fall... and we don't like any of the QBs, I would be perfectly good with taking any of them. To me they are blue chip players and you never pass on a blue chip player for a lesser type of talent at other position. (QBs excluded, because they require completely different circumstances)
If Lamb or Jeudy are at the top of the board then most definitely. A lot of time and work goes into developing the big board, come draft time you have to trust the board, the worst thing a team can do is reach for need.
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18 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
Idk about bust but a couple receivers from his class have outperformed him. Yes he was injured a lot but when healthy, I still think Terry is better. Brown looks way more polished than him as well but I thought that before they got drafted. Even the receiver from Ohio State this year (Hill) looks better.
On receivers, I always look at Reggie Wayne... there were a couple of receivers drafted after Wayne that outperformed him for the first couple of years. But yet, none of them area finalists for the Hall of Fame. Not saying Campbell will be a HOF candidate when it's all said and done, just saying that 1 year of production is not enough to claim the Cols should have taken another player.
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12 hours ago, GoColts00 said:
Benito's first few seasons he played in a 4-3. This last season he played in a 3-4 bc of a new DC. He's versatile
Thanks
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41 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:
Again, I'm a fan of Gordon and I would be willing to bet that if we could look back I would be the first person on the forum to mention Gordon as a possibility.
You don't need to try to convince me that is negatives outweigh his positives.
Yup, I was the first, https://forums.colts.com/search/?&q="anthony gordon"&page=4&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy
And I meant his negatives don't outweigh his positives.
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34 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
There is no one strategy but there is one that had a better chance of yielding positive results. Get your QB early.
The top two passers in NFL history were a 2nd round pick and a 6th round pick.
If the idea was to throw the spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks then yes, picking a QB in the 1st round until you got it correct is the better strategy but since that is not the way to pick a QB. It's better for the FO to do their homework, pick they QB they like the best before that QB is drafted by someone else and then hope and pray they their due diligence is proven correct.
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15 minutes ago, Hoose said:
Oh, and one other comparison. Montana lasted until the 3rd round of the draft because scouts and so called experts thought he lacked a strong enough arm. Now please, I'm not comparing Montana and Gordon. But there are some striking physical similarities.
Again, I'm a fan of Gordon and I would be willing to bet that if we could look back I would be the first person on the forum to mention Gordon as a possibility.
You don't need to try to convince me that is negatives outweigh his positives.
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4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
Really depends on what you define as reaching. The Chiefs traded up 17 spots to get Mahomes. Could be considered a reach. We’ll never really know how much a team really liked someone and what the rest of the league thought of them. Sometimes you have to reach. Even when a team does find a Dak in the 4th round, how often does a franchise have that type of luck?
Someone posted an article about the Chiefs drafting Mahomes the other day. It was quite a process. 1st, the GM had been sending clips to Reid for a couple of years. Then the GM convinced Mahomes' agent that KC is the best place for him and convinced the agent to keep them in the loop on other teams that were interested in Mahomes. So when draft day came they had a very good idea that NO was a very strong possibility to draft Mahomes at #11 and the Cardinals were seriously considering him @ #13. So they knew they had to get in front of NO to draft him. So they concetrated on trying to make a trade with someone that Reid had a history with. NO, also confirmed the interest by telling the Chiefs, they would have drafted Mahomes at 11 if the Chiefs hadn't drafted him.
And yes a lot of the draft pundits considered it a bad thing that the Chiefs traded up to take him. I've seen draft grades giving them a C or even a D for making that move. So to the outside world it appeared they reached for Mahomes but with that inside information they didn't reach at all, they took him one spot ahead of where he would have been drafted.
4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:The Cowboys are the only team to really have that type of Luck twice recently with Romo and then Dak. Drafting QBs outside of the 1st 2 rounds isn’t a viable strategy for drafting franchise QB’s. It’s a fine strategy for trying to draft backup QB’s. But generally speaking when a team has an immediate need at QB they will address it with a 1st round pick. Whether or not it works is another story, but even in failure the answer will not be to play it safe going forward.
That is the point I'm trying to make... there is no strategy for drafting a QB other than constant work and making the decision. So let's say the Colts think Love is the guy, if all their information is telling them that no team before #20 is thinking about drafting him then it makes no sense to move up to get him. Or, if it's saying that no team is looking at him as a 1st round QB, then it makes no sense to draft him at #13. It would be better to wait until their 2nd round pick or least try to trade up to the end of round 1, like the Ravens did with Jackson.
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44 minutes ago, chrisbeldridge said:
I was listening to a podcast (I think it was on Locked on Colts) and a guy said Anthony Gordon had a noodle for an arm. He said he would worry about any throw that was more than 20 yards. I haven't seen this myself, but that is definitely a concern if true.
It's not true. See @chad72 post above. He doesn't have a monster arm but his arm is strong enough for the NFL.
Besides, arm strength is not one of the 7 criteria of successful NFL quarters
QuoteI posted another article in a thread that had 5 of the best minds in football saying mental toughness is the #1 trait, accuracy was number2 and arm strength was not one of the top 5. I will try to find that again.
The litmus test I use... can a QB throw a 15 yard out pattern from hash mark to the opposite sideline. If they can make that throw from then they have a strong enough arm to play in the NFL.
And I think Gordon showed that arm strength in the Senior Bowl when he scrambled to his left and then threw a 25 yard dart with perfect placement at the back of the endzone. Much like Love's long pass, if the receiver had played it correctly it would have been a TD but he jump up and back instead of just up.
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47 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
Yes there are plenty of 1st round QB busts. Unfortunately drafting QBs outside the first is even more of a crap shoot, and that’s what I’m getting at. It’s more risky thinking you can draft developmental guys later and turn them into franchise QBs. There’s not enough data that shows that it’s better to wait.
But there is enough data to show that reaching for a QB because of need is worse.
And also to add to the list of developmental Qbs being successful, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Trent Green
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2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:
You missed the point. The point is that there are way more 1st (2nd round sometimes) round QBs who are successful than there are developmental guys taken in rounds 3-7. Mahomes, Lamar, Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Tannehill, Stafford, Ryan, and Cam. Jury is still out on guys like Darnold, Mayfield, Murray, Jones, Allen, and Haskins too. Trubisky looks like the only real bust right now. And Bridgewater isn’t a bust. He was just injured for too long and the Vikings moved on. He was playing good before his injury.
So generally speaking you have a better chance of finding a franchise QB in the 1st round than you do of finding one in rounds 3-7 as a “developmental pick”.
I didn't miss the point, it's just not a valid point. There are way more QBs taken in the first round that are not successful than 1st round QBs that are successful. And if the FO does a good job of analyzing what they need from a QB and finding the QB that fits that then successful QBs can be found in any round.
Also your list of successful is somewhat questionable with Goff, Wentz and Tannehill on the list. Goff did not look good this year, Went is up and down and you can't consider guys like Tannehill and Bridgewater successful draft picks because they no longer play for the team that drafted them.
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7 minutes ago, Hoose said:
Ever take a good look at Joe Montana? Especially when he first came into the league? Smaller than Gordon. And he played when the QB had no protection. Gordon isn't too small. And they can beef him up over the next year in the weight room. A year and a half later, at the beginning of the 2021 season: 6'2.5", 210 lbs. That's not a midget.
Montana was listed at 6'2, 200lbs, so not smaller.
Also at the time when Montana came into the league there were fewer than 12-300+ lbs players in the NFL (I heard that during a game one time but here is an article talking about NFL size). in 2010 there were 532 players over 300lbs (http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/5443459)
Even beast like Mike Singletary were 6'0 230lbs.
So Montana's weight 41 years ago is not a legitimate comparison.
But again, I'm a fan of Gordon's and a fan of the Colts drafting Gordon but to act like being under 200lbs is not a negative is not looking at reality.
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IMO, there are just a couple of players that are worth trading up for.
If Burrow falls from the top 2.
If word gets out that some team is going to draft Kinlaw before pick 13
If Chase Young falls from the top 2.
And then, I don't know if any of them are generational talents.
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1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:
I'm not worried about his size. Several smaller modern day QB's have had success such as Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Brett Favre, etc. All were 6-2 or shorter. MUCH shorter in the case of Wilson and Brees. It's about accuracy, reading defenses, throwing WR's open, anticipating routes, audibling out of bad situations, sliding protections, escaping the rush, etc. Can he do that, or most of those things well. THAT is what I want to know.
It's not his height, 6'2 is fine for an NFL QB. But at 199lbs... that is a bit light.
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9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:
Could you imagine what we would have gotten for Luck if we could have predicted he would retire? I mean he looked like he was back to his old self. Picks upon picks upon picks upon picks...
Probably could have traded him to the Cardinals for their entire draft and a couple of picks this year.
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14 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:
How many of those day 2-3 developmental QBs work out? Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, and the jury is still out on Misnew. Not including Brady because that’s the biggest anomaly in NFL history and you probably won’t see that again.Drew Brees, Jimmy Grarappolo (sp??)
But on the flip side how many early first round QBs especially the ones that Rise up draft boards during the off season, don't work out
Couch, Tebow, Trubisky, Russell, RGIII, Leaf, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Manzell, Bridgewater, Manuel, Quinn, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Bradford, Sanchez, Freeman, Young, Leinart, Cutler.
This list is long.
QuoteThose guys are all anomaly’s. The standard is Mike Glennon, Matt Barkley, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, Kyle Lauleta, C.J. Bethard, Connor Cook, Matt McGloin, Logan Thomas, Cardale Jones, Ryan Mallet, Greg McElroy, Joshua Dobbs, Mason Rudolph, Brett Hundley, Cody Kessler, etc... The point being that those guys vastly outnumber the number of later round QBs in recent years who became stars.
So, look at the list above, the1st round QBs that became busts and never panned out in the NFL vastly outnumber the 1st round QBs who became stars.
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IF AC decides to retire then then Colts should talk him into waiting until after training camp to retire, then trade AC and a #1 pick to the Bengals and then laugh like crazy when AC retires.
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17 hours ago, Shive said:
From the tape I've watched, Gordon's quick release and speed in reading the field have nothing to do with his consistently clean pocket. His pocket being that clean actually seemed to be a bit of a detriment to him, as he tended to stand up straight and flat-footed, getting completely lazy with his footwork.
His footwork is a concern.
I've mentioned many times on this forum, I think Gordon is the best pure passer in this draft. But he does have his limitations.
His footwork as mentioned
His arm strength - I think he has a strong enough arm for the NFL but it looks to be just above the minimum threshhold for the NFL.
His size - No 2 ways about it, at less than 200lbs he is very light for an NFL quarterback
Only 1 year as a starter.
Because of all of those things, I think Gordon can be had in the 3rd round perhaps the 4th. But I also think he has the most potential to be a Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer type NFL QB. Meaning someone who can lead a team and throw and play well but will never get into that elite category. (I think Burrow and Herbert both have a chance to be elite)
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he looks like a good guy to look at in rounds 5 or later.
In looking at a lot of clips posted, he seems to have a good motor and understanding of the game but it also looks like his short arms limit what he can do while engaged. Also, I would like to learn more about the Ole Miss defensive scheme because he seemed to willing to play on the defensive side of the ball. On several of the stretch plays posted, he did a great job moving down the line, but you want to see him do that on the offensive side of the LOS (not far, about 12-24 inches on the O side of the ball) but he didn't try to get on the offensive side. But that could also be how he was coached to play.
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16 hours ago, B~Town said:
With how Indy does things Love is not even on the BB . Ballard plays war games when it comes to the draft .
I agree that CB doesn't release information about his draft thoughts. But scouts are a finite resource and CB would not waste that time sending scouts to multiple USU games as a smoke screen.
There are too many college players to scout and their jobs, literally, are on the line based on the results of what they can accomplish.
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4 hours ago, Zoltan said:
I was trying to find future picks in the trade chart but couldn't find one that showed it,
For the trade chart future trades are usually the equivalent of one round lower of the current draft position. So, let's say the Colts are looking to trade back to #20, the 2021 1st round pick will have a value of the 2020 2nd round, #20 pick.
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Most definitely.
Former Colts in XFL
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How long until Andrew Luck signs with an XFL team to help out Daddy's new league?