DougDew

You've said before that running QBs may not make it past their 5 year rookie contract...in effectiveness. And that teams could just replace them in the draft and design a simple offense around the rook, instead of paying the 5 year beat up vet a big contract. That's interesting. As this fits into the topic. That theory pertains to the Colts and whether or not we see AR as nothing more than a 5 year guy, and not really the franchise. HOU might be able to have vision beyond that with Stroud, and TEN too with Levis. Not sure where Young fits into that theory.

Wilson was a pretty good passer coming out of college and always has been. Not really an elite passer, but always good enough, if not more than good enough. But yes, he's become a less effective QB as his legs have gotten "heavier".

I'm saying that too much is made of the injury thing regarding running QBs. When they come into the NFL known as a running QB, they typically need a lot of development in the passing game. That's what carries the day in the NFL. Running QBs do get beat up. But if they evolve as passers their injury history becomes moot because their passing skills can now sustain them. And that is the basis of their longevity. Yes, a running QB that has to rely upon running to open up their passing game is going to have a shorter career. Heck, age alone begins to take the legs away from athletes beginning in their late 20s, and they become less effective runners simply with age.

Started off as a running QB, had longevity as he became a better passer. Had injuries throughout his career but when his body got beat up and he could no longer run, his passing wasn't good enough to keep him in the NFL. Is that a good summary?

What are you possibly talking about? I'm sick and tired of you people reading stuff into my posts...then pretending I said it. Lamar, Hurts, Allen, are running QBs who are still in the NFL because of their passing...and Lamar returned form injury and is still in the NFL. Lets hope AR can get there. Kaep did not leave the NFL because of injury. He left because defenses figured out the read option and he never got beyond being a limited passer. I say the word Kaepernick...and YOU...think I'm talking politics? Yeah, move the on please. You're too biased to have a convo with.

SInce AR is no longer going to be a topic since he's on the bench..(.I don't get why we would interject AR into the convo at this point?) Might take the thread to the NFL General Section?

Because it is the style of play. The pocket QB has a friendly big body between him and the guy who wants to tackle him. The running QB takes on the defenders in space generally by himself. Making the defender miss....or not...is a big part of his talent. There are rules that protect the pocket passer...late hit, roughing, etc. and there are rules that protect the running QB too, sliding to avoid contact. And both can do something to avoid contact. Release the ball. Slide. And each QB can make their style more of a problem.....the pocket guy can hold the ball too long....and the runner doesn't slide enough. But that doesn't change the fact that one is being protected by his 'mates and the other is purposely being exposed. But, I agree about injuries....I think its a Red Herring. I don't think that injuries necessarily is why they have short careers. The running QB have short careers if they are never successful enough in the passing game. AKA Kaepernick. Mahomes is not really an example of a running QB. He is a scrambler. He has gotten injured, and that's why KC doesn't call designed running plays for PM....if you take notice. A "running" QB has designed plays called. Hurts. Anthony Richardson. Lamar...even Josh Allen has designed run plays.

Right, you made it about me and tried to call me insincere (and made up some nonsense about Morrocco Brown...which I still don't follow how who picked AR or not would make me an AR fan or not). To the bolded. Assume its true for arguments sake, what would me not being an AR fan have to do with me pointing out exaggerations some made about Levis' performance? I don't see the connection. It's almost sound like you think that being a Colts fan means a person has license to say anything positive about the Colts or anything negative about the opponent....even if its exaggerated. Dude, if that's true, that's some weird stuff driving some comments here man. Levis is the discussion now because he is the QB that's played recently. I'll probably talk about Young after today. And I guess depending upon what I say about Young might not make me an AR fan...or a better one? Weird. That, and, when you point out that the other QB had a nice game, point out that some folks are nearly lying about the other QBs performance, you're not a fan of your QB or a Colts fan. Seems a like a weak, desperate claim to me.

Dude, you literally engaged me in this thread by making it about me. I'm the guy who says Ballard is responsible for the draft picks. Unlike some who blame Frank........or blame elves for the 2017 draft (is that you?) God's honest truth. I have never ever clicked on Colts.com to look at anything Colts related...in my life. I have this forum bookmarked and I have no reason to care about who works in the FO...other than the GM. As far as the topic. I believe running QBs need to learn to pass well in order for their teams to succeed in the NFL. That would be the basis of any criticism of AR....and its sincere. Also, my observation about Levis in college was that he was excitable and prone to be Wentz 2.0. So each had their flaws that put them behind Stroud in my eyes and made me indifferent as to who the draft pick was. Both need work. But, btw, Levis looked impressively un-Wentz like under stress for the most part in his two games. That's a sincere assessment.

Do you keep a score card at home? I mean like a note pad of the posters you don’t like and mark it up with notes and dates and comments you probably convinced yourself they said? and now you’re trying to derail the thread by telling Dougdew that Dougdew is not a fan of ar. Obsess much? I just don’t see fandom as something that excuses intentionally misseeing what opposing players do. It’s the reason I’ve been active in this thread the past two days. btw, who is Morocco Brown?

That would be a big change from 2021 and 2022

You have this habit of telling me what my opinion is. I guess you wish it. I am a fan of ar. and not opposed to the colts drafting him. As I’ve said many times. I was indifferent when stroud went off the board between ar, Levis, and trade down. And whatever Ballard did I’d be fine with as a fan because I had no defined opinion about what to do with pick four this year. it was young who I did not want the colts to draft. But that became a nonissue very quickly if there was a series of posts or one poster that persistently misrepresents the magnitude what ar did to the negative, I would point that out too.

Unlike what some are doing to Levis, he’s not misrepresenting the magnitude of ars negatives to prefer Levis. It’s simply a sincere opinion that people don’t like. .

Since I think you get my point, I'll simply say that the reason some of the pushback is taking place against the Levis critics is because I detect (not an all or nothing statement) a dishonest bent to how the Levis critics write comments about the two QBs. I don't think it helps discussion.

Either you're missing my point or you're glossing over it. In this convo, I said exaggerating the negatives about Levis, and you change it by responding about knocking the negatives. In our previous convo, I asked if claiming that Levis' pick was "losing the game" was sincere. You changed it by responding that you agreed it was not accurate. Exaggerate vs knock Insincere vs inaccurate My words detect an intention to mislead by the Levis haters, if not crossing the line into lying. OTOH, knocking actuaI negatives or innocently getting it wrong has no malice to it. Some of the criticisms of Levis get close to telling lies to support their position than what I read about AR. And criticizing Levis over the Mayo SM punk stunt would be the same as someone criticizing Rodgers over his continual changes of facial hair and haircuts. A bit beyond the line, IMO.

I think it was about some of the pro AR folks exaggerating negatives about Levis. I'm not a Levis supporter in wishing at this point he was on the Colts, but I don't think its fair to type misleading things about Levis just to support AR. At least that's what my posts were point out.

It’s interesting qb rookie class for sure. But I would keep the thread to the guys who were projected to go top 15.

Yes I did, I think you have said it a lot. But that doesn't answer my question as to whether or not you think that the statement "threw a pick to lose the game" is a sincere description of what happened if someone watched the game?

I based my opinions on what I see as an honest observation of the games. I see others opinions seemingly based upon a description of the game that is not sincere....simply going off of what they are saying in their posts. Since you saw the game, would you say that Levis "failed to win it in the 4th quarter twice" or "threw a pick that lost the game"? I can't see how anybody could describe it that way unless they already had an agenda. Maybe some go out of their way to discredit certain players and not others? I have not advocated for AR in the same way....defended him against bad descriptions... because I haven't read a description of his performance that isn't accurate. I can't argue with "injury prone" the same way I can with "threw a pick that lost the game" because I know the latter is a wrong way to describe it while I don't know if AR is actually injury prone or not. I have advocated for Stroud. By all accounts, nobody has misdiscribed his performance that I've read. Interesting. I have nothing good to say about Pickett really, in the small sample size I've seen.

Yep. I've seen both of Levis' games. Honestly, I don't remember him scrambling even once. You'd not recognize his college tape. He may have tried a few times in both games, but it looked to me like he was constantly focused down the field and was too late. I actually think that's a good thing. If TEN gets two competent receivers and a TE, and a check down scat back to look for, I think TENs O is going to be very good.

Agreed. I think some of the second read stuff is by design. Because maybe the Qb does not have the arm to make all of the throws to those 4 receivers running 4 different patterns anyway, they are coached to take off when they feel pressure. Others are coached to hang in there and make the throw while taking their hits in the pocket instead of on the hoof. But a guy like Levis, who can also run, should probably bail out earlier than he did last night. Hanging in there too long was a weakness shown in college.

My agenda is to have a discussion, not to try to get more folks to see it my way......,if that's what you mean by agenda.. If a QB threw a pick on the last play of the game trying to win it on a hail mary from 40 yard line...would your opinion see that pick as losing the game? (and I know that you did not say that). How does that situation compare to what Levis did, which was to throw a pick near the endzone from the 20 yard line on 3rd and 10 with 11 seconds left to play? See why it could be seen as misrepresentation? Seeing it as misrepresentation is an opinion too.

You mentioned QB running. One of the factors that contributes to this the Qb hanging in the pocket to make his 3rd and 4th reads. Because they have the arm to make a throw to wherever that guy is when he gets open, the QB will want to advance the ball through the air rather than running and hangs in the pocket. So some of those sacks happen because of the success they have on other plays...when the QB is able to convert a pass just before getting hit rather than taking off. So when one Qb gets sacked and another escapes a sack, the sack has to be taken into context because it also comes with chances for big plays through the air on other plays that wouldn't be there for the running QB who took off too early. Its not an apples to apples comparison. Also, if anybody noticed. Levis' best plays have come with him under center instead of shotgun RPO. And TEN had him do that quite a bit. The play action works better. None of the other QBs will drop back from center and pass. So the style of offense is going to play into what each QB will do and how they compare from a statistics standpoint...especially rushing TDs.

Its fine. I'm in a position to call out misrepresents because I happen to see both games. If and when I have to use only stats, any misrepresentation will fly over my head like it will with so many. I think AR, Levis, and Stroud played good. Even though I wish AR would play the best, I think all three have been pretty much the same and better than expected so far.

Tennessee's receiving corps is probably worse than the Colts. Having seen both TEN games, its only DHop. Both QBs need better consistency from their receivers. And I think Young is in that same situation.