ColtStrong2013
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Posts posted by ColtStrong2013
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24 minutes ago, DougDew said:
I can grasp it. But the comment cited was that "the only reason you're here is because the owner wants you", makes it sound spiteful, and not being based on a football decision.
So maybe Grigson thought he could spend less for a punter and that those few million dollars saved would offset the lost profit on Jersey sales.
Or do we just want to keep going with spite being the reason?
Undoubtedly. He thought he could easily replace Pat with someone much cheaper. The problem with that is, he could not have. Irsay knew that, and he shut the conversation down. Therefore it was Grigson being spiteful at Pat and looking for everything little (like a stupid picture that was against his rules...is that in Andrew Luck's contract? Or just Pat's I wonder?)
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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:
What do you and NCF not understand about what I write? Then make some comment that I'm dumb or don't get it.
I basically said the same thing as your last paragraph, that he wanted to find a cheaper alternative at punter.
When you say he wants to "make a case for firing him", that implies Grigson wants Pat off the team because he doesn't like his personality, despite thinking he's a good punter worth the money.
No. Grigson is saying that he doesn't think Pat is worth the money (the basis of the contract dispute prior to this) and the only reason Pat is on the team is because Irsay likes his personality.
I understand what you write... I dont agree with it.
Grigson didn't think he was worth it from a football perspective solely. Irsay realized that his personality and his play brought money to the organization in form of merchandise and possibly even ticket sales (because let's face it, when #12 was out, there was very little to look forward to on the field... and Pat McAfee was it for some people.) You guys can't grasp this. He was valuable, on the field for the team and for the organization in media relations, fan base, merchandise sales, etc. He felt that his value to the team was a lot more than the nothing thag Grigson thought he was worth (and subsequently treated him like)
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...and with that, I am done talking about Ryan Grigson.
He was bad. He got fired. For good reason. And he's gone forever.
Moving on.
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2 hours ago, DougDew said:
Why do you say that....that RG was looking for a reason? That RG harbored some sort of animus towards Pat and would replace him with less of a punter because of that? At the expense of the team on the field?
Maybe RG sincerely thought he was the easiest to replace. Our current punter is pretty good. Maybe Pat wasn't replaceable at the time, but I assume that's what Grigson thought.
If this story is true, and not one former player has come out and stood behind Grigson yet (we can wait if you'd like) then I would say it is pretty apparent he was looking for a reason to fine him, make a case for firing him/driving him out of the business.
It was well known that Grigson wanted Pat McAfee off the team and bring his own, cheap alternative in from the start. Read between the lines.
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49 minutes ago, Superman said:
The article points to an 8% increase in web traffic for the pro shop, not 8% growth in revenue. It points to a 9% increase in sales at brick and mortar stores. However, it's impossible to tie either of those increases to McAfee alone. In 2014, the Colts were looking like the next AFC contender. The article also doesn't speak to any increases in sales for other players. With McAfee being #2 on the team in jersey sales, it's fair to include him as a reason for an increase. It's not reasonable to conclude that he was THE reason for the increase, and we have no data with which to reach a reasonable conclusion on that.
It is true that McAfee represented a financial gain for the Colts. I'm not suggesting he didn't have value to the team, on and off the field. I also agree that I don't think the Irsays would appreciate or condone having their players treated that way. But I don't think that his value to the team was relevant in that discussion.
If any player knowingly violated team rules, it doesn't matter whether they were a cash cow or team MVP, they should be held accountable. This was petty of Grigson, but that's not because McAfee was #2 on the team in jersey sales or because he was a good punter. Grigson probably treated him this way because he disliked him, which is wrong coming and going. But anyone acting like they are beyond being fined because they have good jersey sales is missing the point. Grigson was wrong to be a jerk to any player, jersey sales notwithstanding. I feel like Pat's response about his value and making money for the team is somewhat arrogant and a little conceited.
Hence the reason I said there will never be context that shows what he brought financially. #2 in Jersey sales with a 9% growth in sales tells me he was pretty valuable.
It does have a lot to do with the discussion, you just continue to disagree and repeatedly say that it had no correlation.
"I feel like Pat's response about his value and making money for the team is somewhat arrogant and a little conceited." Yeah, you have said that several times now.
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As I said before, I won't defend Pat any longer, as he isn't a member of this team. But I sure appreciated him while he was here. For many reasons. I support the Colts and the players that make it what it is. I supported Grigson while he was here. I cannot support him any longer.
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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:
Just pointing out, but I think the overall comment by Pat wasn't part of a sincere discussion about his value to the company, it sounded like he was just digging at Grigson because Grig was about to call him out for some conduct policy. As was Pat's comment about RG being responsible for not protecting the QB.
I'd think his value to the Colts would come up calmly by his agent during contract talks, not in this particular heated conversation.
I don't dispute that. He consistently has dug at Grigson since his abrupt retirement... He has repeatedly said Grigson flat out told him from day 1 he was the low man in the organization and he'd be gone/replaced if it weren't for Jim Irsay. Problem is with an organization this size, you don't get direct privileges with the owner... you get them with the manager. And in this case the manager was looking for anything and everything to justify his case of getting rid of Pat. You and I would both take issue with that.
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2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:
He's always had an overinflated opinion of himself. As a player. A television personality. As a swimmer. This article just cements his overinflatedness.
He had an overinflated opinion of himself as a player? Not sure on that one. He knew his self worth as a punter, especially with an offense that often stalled and relied on his field position magic to stay in ball games. He truly helped win some games with his brilliant onside game (2 in the same Houston game if I remember correctly.)
He also took the damage of kickoffs so Vinny could have an extended career (would love to hear his take on Pat on this forum... would undoubtedly be more positive than most on here.)
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2 hours ago, Superman said:
I would like some context on some of those numbers, but either way, the point is that it struck me as arrogant and petty on Pat's part.
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/11/07/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/McAfee.aspx
I doubt we'll ever see context of Jersey sales. But here is an article that quotes the Indianapolis business journal saying McAfee's sales helped an 8 % growth for colts pro shop ecommerce and 9% for their brick and mortar stores.
I understand why people see it as arrogant, but I see it in a different fashion. He had hard proof that he was valuable to the organization, extremely valuable in my own opinion (on the field, salary to revenue potential, and off the field in his media relations/charitable work) and he was completely underappreciated by management while Grigson was at the helm. No way that the Irsay family is proud of that, as they have always been appreciative of the players that help make their Billion dollar empire what it is.
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2 hours ago, Superman said:
Number 2 in jersey sales spoke more to the fact that the Colts had basically no marketable personalities on the team (and that's accepting as fact that he was #2 in jersey sales, which I haven't attempted to verify). My point is that whatever he was bringing in was likely a drop in the bucket, and him acting like his jersey sales were a significant part of the operation is a laugh, IMO.
And his personality getting national attention was kind of a two-edged sword. By this time period, he had lived down the arrest, but that was and still is his primary claim to fame.
Again, I'm not knocking Pat because of his personality, his arrest, his being a punter, or anything like that. I'm saying that his own version of this story makes him look bad, the way he told it makes him look bad, and him telling it now, two years later, makes him look bad. I'm certainly not claiming this makes Pat a bad person, or any of the other nonsense that others are peddling. But my reaction to the story was 'wow, Pat, that's kind of petty and arrogant of you.'
And again, this is not a defense of Ryan Grigson, nor does Pat getting into an argument with Grigson bother me.
Pat's Jersey sales were big on the women's market. Personally, every lady in my family had a Pat McAfee jersey... accounting for as many as 20. Wearing #1 probably went a long way with that, as was his humor, but he was appealing to the female base of Colts fans. He was genius to capitalize on his charisma/humor combined with his swimming event. He built a brand, which is remarkable for a punter in the NFL. He wasn't just #2 in Colts Jersey sales... he was #17 in the league at one point in 2014. That's a fact. And that is why I am going to have to disagree with you in his Jersey sales not being a part of the operation. He brought in more revenue than anyone with his salary. He had a larger fan base than anyone with his salary.
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I think we can all agree that things weren't good in the Grigson/Pagano organization. I blame that on management. Pagano was suspect as a coach. But he was dealing with far more than anybody in the league was dealing with... especially with management of the team. Really sad.
At the end of the day regardless of the outcome of his career, Chris Ballard will walk away with respect from the players and coaches, and take full responsibility for the results. Grigson couldn't and wouldn't. It was always someone else's fault and he had no accountability whatsoever. Bad management.
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39 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:
JMO
The story was not needed
It makes Pat look “childish”
I won't defend Pat anymore after this, because he can defend himself. However, this story was needed. People have been pressing him why he quit football for a while now. Now they are pressing him on why he's leaving barstool sports... He gave them the true answer to both, and it's that he's tired of working for people that apparently don't appreciate him.
I dont blame him. People can blame the millennial generation for being entitled, unloyal, whatever. Kudos to a great deal of them for not taking years of nonsense like many of the generations before them that were too scared to leave a company they needed to leave behind.
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17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
This kind of story makes me wonder how many times Grigson treated other players like this besides Pat? I would almost bet this wasn't the only incident between Grigson and Pat either. It's not like this was probably a 1 time thing. Boss or not, nobody should be treated like garbage so I don't blame Pat at all. If my boss called me into his office and was cussing and acting like a raving maniac I wouldn't put up with it either. My guess is, Pat had several run ins with Grigs over petty stuff like a picture being taken and Pat just basically said I am done with this franchise. A couple of years ago on Twitter, Reggie Wayne also had said Grigs was rude to the players as well so right there alone proves it wouldn't just a Pat problem.
Grigson was on a power trip 100% of the time and this story just adds to that narrative. Grigson was mad that he had to keep Pat from the start, when he wanted a cheaper alternative... He was constantly looking for things to justify getting rid of him, or in this case driving him out. Ironic it was the same time frame things were going south fast for the entire organization under his command. I'd say many players had similar stories, and this is pretty much why Grigson was fired and Pagano wasn't. Pagano had stories to show what bad management looked like, and had the players to back him on that end.
Pat's not a prima donna millennial. He was an underappreciated employee that was valuable to the organization he brought a lot of money to. 2nd best selling Jersey, top 25 in the league at one point (ahead of Cam Newton)... and being threatened of losing a large chunk of his salary by a crap manager that no one got along with... for no good reason. Good employees don't leave companies, they leave bad managers. Period.
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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:
Kickers.
i like the "i dont wanna make money for these guys anymore"
talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Does anyone miss him on the field? No. Rigaberto has been as good for far less money.
i always liked Mcafee, but the guy occasionally goes off the rails..... like WAYYYYYY off the rails.
i had my doubts about barstool. I just didnt see a future.
Rigaberto is a great young replacement for Pat, but not even in the same conversation. Pat wasn't just top 3 every year, he was one of the best ever. Clutch punter. Incredible off the tee, specifically with onside kicks.
I can assure you we will miss Adam Viniateri when he is gone.
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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
I see a number of the same Usual Suspects of Complaining are in mid-season form....
Amazing the Colts don’t employ these Geniuses!
Business as usual. Carry on! Dilly, Dilly!!
Complaining in misery, Dilly Dilly!
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Start fast and finish strong. If we do, 9 or 10 wins. If we don't 6 or 7. It's going to be a bumpy road, but I think we will compete more than ever. This could be one scrappy team that has everything to prove (including our franchise stud qb and rookie head coach/offensive coordinator/defensive coordinators)
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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:
I think those hoping for 8-Plus sacks from Turay this year are likely to be disappointed. 8-Plus is a lot for ANY player, much less a rookie.
And remember, he’s not even a full time guy. He’s a rotational guy.
If Turay gets 4-6 sacks I’ll be very pleased.
I’d rather lower expectations and be pleased than have them high and be disappointed. But maybe that’s just me.
Those aren't my expectations at all. Those are my hope. I hope for a playoff appearance and a run, but i dont expect it.
He is a rotational piece, until he proves he can be provide consistent pressure.
24 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:I don't really even care if he has zero sacks this year IF he can be a constant disruptive force that causes the QB to make an early throw.
Agreed. I almost wrote after the 8 sacks "and a lot of pressure/rushed throws." We haven't had much of any of it in the past several years, so any kind of pressure from him solely would be huge. I honestly just hope for consistent growth, and to see him coming into the position by years end. With the amount of studying and work he is putting into it, we should see a guy comfortable by the end of the year.
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2 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:
I don't think one player makes or breaks Ballard either way. Building a winner will. Either he is successful in doing that here or he isn't. Time will tell.
I don't necessarily think one will make or break. But if Turay turns into a star pass rusher, and Nelson ends up an all-pro like he should, and certainly if Smith turns into a solid starting guard/tackle, then that trade back to #6 and snagging those three gents because of it, will go down as one of the top moves in draft history.
I'm hopeful for a healthy season for Turay and year long growth. Would love to see him at 8 plus sacks this season.
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This won't break Ballard as a GM if this guy doesn't work out... but it will make him if he does. Would love to see this guy play big on Sunday.
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11 hours ago, deedub75 said:
It's a home game for the Colts so the 3 point favorite means the game is basically a toss up. If this game were played in Cincy, they'd be a 3 point favorite. I think the teams are evenly matched. I would give a slight edge to the Bengals due to their defensive line. Also, Luck is still a work in progress. We don't have 2014 Luck just yet.
Correct on the 3 point spread = home field advantage.
I don't necessarily give the Bengals an advantage because of their defensive line. Frank Reich can tone them back with quick hitters and proper playcalling. Hopefully Castonzo is back this week in practice, or else I might agree with you on that.
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5 hours ago, Jaredfor3 said:
A loss to the Bengals is 6-10 season.
A win will be 8-8/9-7, with a chance for that 6th seed.
This game reminds me of the Lions home opener from two years ago.
Don't even go there please... One of the worst experiences I have been a part of was the Lions opener, seated next to Lions fans. We literally started the season with our 3rd and 5th cornerbacks, and Cromartie went down in that game, I believe. Also down a starting safety, and lost another one in that game. We were playing with practice players (which were bad PS players at that) in the defensive secondary. Of course Stafford was going to pick us apart. Pagano called a stupid timeout down at the goal line, instead of playing to win and forcing Caldwell to use his own timeout (which he would have). Poor game management, and awful defense that game. Hard to believe our defense could ever be that bad again.
I believe we win this game. I look for some Frank Reich playcalling that opens receivers up by rubbing and creating mismatches for Andrew to get rid of the ball early. We will need to run the ball somewhat efficiently to keep Dunlap and Atkins out of the backfield from the get-go. I HOPE sincerely hope, we can get the Bengals offense in 3rd and medium/long early in the game, or force a turnover or two throughout to give Andrew more possessions. Bengals will have to work for it offensively, as I look for our zone to play fast and limit big plays.
28-21. Colts. Andrew with 270 and 2 td's. Wilkins with a couple td's down by the goalline after a long drive. Leonard with 12 tackles and an interception. Strong field position game.
I hope for 30 plus and a defense that carries over from preseason holding the Bengals to fieldgoals after long drives. Start fast, finish strong. -
7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:
We’re talking about rookies and unproven players. Leonard should be very good. However, he hasn’t played a regular season game yet. So that basically leaves us with Hooker and Sheard as proven talents on defense. Maybe Geathers but he’s gotta stay healthy. The idea that the defense lacks talent isn’t far fetched. Let’s see what the young guys do and re visit this at the end of the season.
I agree 100% that we should hold off saying there is no talent on this team for a while... You are correct that they are unproven and rookie players. But that does not equate to talentless. Quenton Nelson is a rookie and unproven, but can we agree he is a true talent?... there are some talented guys on this defense. Don't lose sight of that.
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... but but, this defense doesn't have any talent according to many fans on here.
I agree and am excited to watch his growth this season. He should cause some headaches this year for offenses. We have a few for real playmakers on this defense, and possibly more that we don't know about yet.
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4 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:
So if the Colts cut or otherwise got rid of Luck, Brissett, Hilton, Nelson, Braden Smith and Darius Leonard, there's no way anyone could judge that unless they were with the players on a daily basis?
But did they...?
Pat McAffee Story in IndyStar
in Colts Football
Posted
And this is relevant to this franchise... extremely relevant. Top free agents, and especially your own draft picks looking for an extension, do not stay in bad environments. If people can't see the difference between how Ballard communicates and runs this organization now versus how Grigson did, they never will.