ponyboy
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Trev Alberts has to be high on the bad pick list because it was a high 1st round pick that didn't produce at all (I don't remember him playing at all other than in pre-season, but maybe I'm forgetting).
He was taken 5th overall. The Colts traded up to get him. Kiper was convinced the Colts were trading up to take Trent Dilfer and was really critical of the pick (and passing on Trent Dilfer). That's when the famous clip of the Colts GM Bill Tobin shows up on-air shortly after the pick and says something to the effect of "..who the hell is Mel Kiper... as far as I know the man has never wore a jock... and tried to tell teams how to draft..". I actually felt bad for Mel
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So what kind of numbers would be regarded as a breakout year?
My expectations are about the same as Avery's numbers last year (though Avery was probably a better deep threat, DHB a bigger threat to take a slant for big yards). I also think Avery did fine (not great) last year except for maybe 4-5 too many drops.
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I guess it depends on which chart you're looking at. The scenario for 2 #2s usually is suggested as a trade with Miami or SF. With Miami it would be for the #42 and #54 (for #24 and #121). 740 + 52 vs. 480 + 360 (792 vs. 820). I'd rather see the #24 for a high-mid #2 and high-mid #3.You might even have to give up a 1 and a 3....
And I don't think I'd be happy with that.....
On the points scale, a 1 and a 4 doesn't quite cut it....
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Agree.. except I think you need to drop the 5. I don't think you'd get 2, 3, 5 for #24 unless you're dropping low into the 2nd round. I'd prefer to see dropping no farther than the top 10 of the 2nd even if it meant not getting that extra 5th.
And as Dustin said, it depends on who's there at #24 (Warmack, Cooper, Star, J Jones).
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Without knowing any of the details, here's my totally uninformed guess... Maybe DHB wasn't happy with any multi-year offers and was looking for a 1 year deal in the hopes that the multi-year deals next year would be much better should he have a breakout season.
To have a breakout season, the Colts and Lions would be good choices. Maybe the Lions didn't offer a 1 year contract?
It's not like he should be hurting for money. He was drafted before the rookie signing caps and made a ton of money off his rookie contract, so taking a smaller salary this year is a reasonable risk for a better payoff next year.
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I'm not sure why you thought I was implying drops. I was just surprised by this information. I had assumed that a speed guy with a high YPC would have a fair number of deep target completions.. but apparently he's a high YAC guy from shorter routes.That's targets, not drops. Not his fault his QBs cant throw accurate deep balls.
From the article:
"And while deep passing does require adept quarterback play, other Oakland receivers have fared much better than Heyward-Bey during that same time period... Rod Streater caught five of 14 opportunities (35.7%) in 2012. In 2010, Jacoby Ford and Louis Murphy caught nine of 28 deep targets (32.1%), while Heyward-Bey hauled in just three of 20 (15.0%)."
Not sure you can use the QB argument to explain this unless they were always underthrowing him
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This paragraph from the article surprised me:
According to PFF, Heyward-Bey has been targeted past 20 yards 75 times over that same span. With just 11 receptions, his catch rate in the deep passing game is just 14.6 percent, another horrendous number that ranks him in the bottom five of the NFL since 2009.
And while deep passing does require adept quarterback play, other Oakland receivers have fared much better than Heyward-Bey during that same time period.
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Here's some data that I pulled from Wikis. This show positions where the top 2 interior linemen were drafted in the past 22 years. I sorted on position and looked for G and C positions only. There could have been players listed as tackles that actually played interior line positions after being drafted.
This year may be the exception, but typically there aren't two interior OL taken before pick #24. In summary, only 2 of the past 22 years have two been taken before pick #24 (2011 and 2010).
2012: #24 #27 (DeCastro, Zeitler)
2011: #15 #23 (Pouncy, Watkins)
2010: #17 #18 (Iupati , Pouncy)
2009: #21 #28 (Mack, Wood)
2008: #39 #59 (Rachal, Pollard)
2007: #29 #35 (Grubbs, Sears)
2006: #23 #29 (Joseph , Mangold)
2005: #26 #32 (Spencer , Mankins)
2004: #16 #45 (Andrews, Grove)
2003: #21 #33 (Faine, Steinbach)
2002: #30 #37 (Simmons , Gurode)
2001: #17 #50 (Hutchinson , Raiola)
2000: #37 #51 (Claridge, Coleman)
1999: #17 #55 (Woody , Page)
1998: #26 #53 (Faneca , Hallen)
1997: #10 #63 (Naeole , Middleton)
1996: #23 #60 (Hartings , Cheever)
1995: #14 #33 (Brown, O’Dwyer)
1994: #32 #36 (Mahlum , Mawae)
1993: #14 #57 (Everitt, Gerak)
1992: #61 #74 (Cunningham , Siever)
1991: #29 #44 (King, Flanney)
1990: #23 #39 (Brostek, Sims)
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1. Tie A and B
2. A
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#2 for OG. At #24, Warmack, Cooper, or Fluker (as OG).. or trade down.. Pugh or Warford a bit lower.
#1 if the value at #24 is really too good to pass up (Star?). If #1, then OG/C or WR in 3rd depending on who's there.
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Only if they trade down from #24 and end up with a 2nd round and 2 3rd round picks, then I would consider using one of the third round picks. I could see SF taking a chance on him in the 2nd or 3rd.
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Since the choice is WR/OLB.. I'd pick WR. But OG/C is really the first choice.
Top interior lineman typically go in the latter half of the first round, I'm hoping that holds true this year (DeCastro was mocked to go top 12 in almost all mocks last year but went #24 -- I can't believe the Bears passed on him). Keep Luck healthy and give him more time. Moving the chains more on offense will indirectly help the defense. Luck took a beating last year and it'll eventually take a toll (quite a remarkable season considering the pounding).
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Yes, and not just the Colts picks. Watching all of rounds 1-4 to see who's sliding and who'll be available for the pick. For rounds 5-7 I usually just check back every hour or so to see whose been picked. I have since 1989 -- but haven't done the KFC bucket for the draft.. might have to give it a try
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I was 20 and living in Indiana. A big Bears fan at the time. Helped my older brother move from Indiana to Baltimore just before that. His car (with Indiana plates) was an easy target.
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Take Hopkins at #24.. or trade down to top of second for either Warford, Pugh, or Hopkins
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Actually, a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th isn't too far off according to the NFL draft value chart, but is a bit high. #24=740, #38=520, #69=245, #140=36. So, 740 vs. 801. Even #2, #3 is 740 vs. 765.Only problem is nobody is going to trade 3 picks for 1 pick, and just move up 10 slots or so. You are going to trade out of the 1st for an early 2nd and 1 more pick (probably a 4th rounder). Your not going to get the 2nd round pick along with a 3rd and a 5th....nobody would do that, unless you are talking about trading to the bottom part of the 2nd round. This is especially true because this draft has good value thru the 4th round. And all the teams know that, so you will be hard pressed to trade 1 pick and get 3 in return.
Having said that, I like the Warford and Rogers picks, but thereafter you probably go defense, not Barrett Jones. Mid round OL I like Schwenke C-G and Winters G-T.
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I'd say the "go heavy on defense in year 2" occurred in FA this year. I still think OG or WR makes a lot of sense for the first pick (at #24 if a top guard slides, or 5-15 picks lower in a in a trade scenario -- picking up a 3rd). Of course if a great value on defense slides to #24 then maybe you can't pass it up (e.g. Jarvis Jones).On Point; What random journalists have to say is no more relevant than the guesses in our own websites draft forum. However, I believe we WILL go defense with pick #24. Every indication shows me we had a clear 2-year plan in place last year. Draft heavy on offense in year 1 of the rebuild. go defense in year 2.
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Over/under is 5 hours before another WR is spotted at an Indy airport.
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He just said it's not Cruz... maybe he's still being vague and what he was really saying is that it wasn't Tom Cruise
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This thread is slowing down.. but it'll pick back up as we approach post #2000.
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You know, I was going on memory and was convinced it as a UFA signing.. but now I'm not so sure after reading your links (and am a little concerned about my memoryNot a biggy, but now you have me curious. The FA rules you describe sound completely untenable, but I don't recall and haven't looked them up. That doesn't change the fact that they traded for Young. I've looked it up a few times in the past (when wallowing in my "I can't believe the Colts were such a horrible organization" misery). I've never seen anything referring to him being a free agent. In fact the one I linked to earlier was a report of the trade as it happened in September - indicating that he had sat out game one of the season. Sounds like he held out and forced their hand. Wouldn't a free agent have just signed with another team before training camp? How do you hold out if you don't have a contract? Try this one: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20111115/sports/711159999/-1/rss04
"After the 1987 season, Young was looking for a payout of his own. The Seahawks were on the verge of being sold, and Young later maintained that general manager Mike McCormack told him the team did not want to sign off on any more long-term contracts while the sale was being consummated. Young then asked to be traded, and the Seahawks honored his request."
Or the Seahawks website: http://blog.seahawks.com/tag/fredd-young/
"But the honor for best fourth-round pick in franchise history goes to Fredd Young – a linebacker from New Mexico with the second “d” in his first name that he explained stood for defense.
Young was selected in 1984 and made the Pro Bowl in each of his four seasons with the team – the first two as a special teams player, the last two as a linebacker. He led the team in tackles three consecutive seasons (1985-87), before being traded to the Colts for a pair of first-round draft choices.
So Young also was the draft choice that kept on giving, as the team used the first-round selections acquired for him to draft offensive lineman Andy Heck in 1989 and as part of the package to trade into the third spot in 1990 to take Hall of Fame defensive tackle Cortez Kennedy."
Oh, the pain.................................
)I'm almost 100% sure the original rules of franchise tag required 2 #1s and the transitional tag required a #1 and #3 (and we acquired Will Wolford from the Bills as a transitional player by stating in the contract that he had to be the highest paid non-QB offensive player, which the Bills couldn't possibly match).
So, I stand corrected.. and congrats on your memory
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I think the unrealistic part is that the Jags would make this lopsided trade.Meh, got to admit it certainly does have benefits for us, Not sure what the Jags cap situation is like however, Of course I know the trade is a little out there but, thinking outside the box has benefits if it benefits the team and that trade certainly would, we would add another good wr plus be in line for a slew of players to choose from in the draft
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Actually he was. That was the FA rule back in the late 80s when the franchise tag first started. If you signed the player and the team didn't match the contract, you had to give up 2 #1. They also had what was call a transitional(?) tag which you would apply to two players. If a another team signed that player to a contract that the current team didn't match, you would lose a #1 and a #3. I think that's how the Colts got Will Wolford from the Bills. I remember the Colts crafted a contract that couldn't possibly be matched (included a poison pill -- like a stipulation that the player had to be the highest paid player on the team -- poison pills are no longer allowed).Not true - I remember it well. . http://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/10/sports/sports-people-young-traded-to-colts.html
Where have you ever heard of two first round draft picks going as FA compensation? The most I've ever heard is one, and I thought that that only came on with a relatively recent rule change.
By the way, the reason that I remember it so well was that I detested the Dickerson trade as well, and this went hand in hand with it. The team was throwing away first round draft picks left and right with a "WIN NOW" mentality, when they didn't have remotely enough talent to justify the exercise. It was just a string of endless incompetency that had been obviously going on for years, and persisted up until the moment Bill Tobin was hired. It's pretty darn hard to pick "worst" of anything when there are so very many to choose from.
So, yes Fred Young was signed by the Colts as a franchised free agent.. and since they Seahawks didn't match, the colts sent two #1s.
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Especially since he's an UFAIf we give away our 24th pick for Josh Cribbs I would lose all faith in Grigson, That would truly be an embarrassing deal
That would be embarrassing.
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The best and worst draft picks in Colts history
in Colts Football
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I think Emtman was actually playing really well before the injuries. I don't think it was a bad pick, just bad luck. Coryott wasn't too bad but not a great player by any stretch (I still cringe thinking about his dropped INT in the 1995 Championship game against the Steelers that would have iced the game and sent the Colts to the SB).
Check out the entire 1992 draft. A really bad year. Not many big NFL names to be found in the entire draft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_NFL_Draft