Gonzo
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Posts posted by Gonzo
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Someone in another thread mentioned the Sports Science Coby Fleener video. Here it is:
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Our 1st two choices...make sense..
They are in sync.....They are a tandem...
Other than corner.....we need to emphasize offense...
We must be a big time offensive team...again because of where we play and who we play.
More O-linemen...More weapons
Offense sells tickets, and offense wins championships in the modern NFL.
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Like I said in another thread it's one thing to get a guy who is a weapon for your rookie QB it's another to get a guy who is a weapon for your rookie QB who was your rookie QB's go to guy in college. Fleener fills a need, we had one tightend on the roster in Eldridge and Eldridge is not a pass catcher. We didn't really reach on him, some had him going in the middle of the first round so you could argue he slipped to us just as much as you can that we reached. If we reached it was by about two or three spots that's not really a reach. I can see how someone might have wanted someone else but it's very hard to dislike this pick other than just on the grounds of it's not who you wanted the Colts to draft.
We drafted the undisputed top prospect at his position, a guy with prototype size and speed, in the second round. I agree with you, no way that's reaching. I think it's a steal. That it happens to be at a position of great need is just gravy.
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and what if not? I mean come on you just don't know how he turns out. we are rebuilding and need talented AND reliable players!
Thus we draft a sure thing in Fleener. We've got to put Luck in the best position to succeed. This pick could have a huge impact in our passing game, and give us a potential matchup nightmare on offense. Our passing game was so pitiful last year...
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On a team with mediocre wide receivers and no other serious weapons in the passing game Fleener dominated. Can't believe he fell to the second round. He should start on day one, and then for years down the road.
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This offense may be serviceable after all. I actually liked him better then Luck when I watched Stanford play last year. :ashamed:
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So many posts in this thread to like... so little time
I honestly thought both QBs were relatively glossed over last night because the story on each of them has already played itself out pretty thoroughly.
Uh... no. No one who is more than the most casual bandwagon Skins (or Baylor) fan honestly believes that.
It's not unusual at all to see a fanbase turn up in droves for a pick like that and exercise a little unrestrained jubilation. Giants and Jets fans can always be counted on to have a big presence, too, and they're no less obnoxious. Clearly more of y'all should have gone to New York to represent.
Man, I'm just thrilled we'll be able to put Garcon in a position to drop some deep balls this year. We haven't had a QB with good deep ball accuracy since 1992 (and he wasn't even that good of a QB without perhaps the best offensive line ever assembled assisting him).
That's absolutely true, though. If you had kept Peyton and traded with us for a battery of picks, Griffin would be going number one. It's not an ego thing, he's just glad that the team that took him valued him that highly. A lot of other players made similar statements when teams moved up to get them (e.g., Morris Claiborne).
I wouldn't worry too much about Garcon. He should be very good for you guys. Some sour grapes on here because he turned down a very similar offer from us to go to the Skins.
On the other hand, I don't believe the talk about the Skins would've taken RGIII in the first spot. It sounds way too much like the Chargers saying they really wanted Leaf all along. Not saying that I think they'll (Leaf and RGIII) have even remotely similar career trajectories, RGIII looks like a special player who can live up to his own bravado.
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The Broncos have serviceable pieces already. This is supposed to be a deep draft, maybe they don't feel there's a big difference between the top of their chart and some of the guys further down, so why not just move down and take more of them?
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I think the media ignored both Luck AND RGIII. There was no drama/excitement outside of Indy and DC because everyone knew what was going to happen with the first two picks.
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As fans we have every reason to be optimistic. For one, we can't be much worse then last year.
For another we have a promising new defensive scheme, a potential rookie phenom coming in to play QB, fresh blood on the offensive line...From an analysts perspective we probably have more question marks then any team in the league. If everything breaks our way we could be decent, and as fans we have nothing to lose by hoping they do. But a smart gambler (or football analyst) looks at those question marks and sees a risky bet they don't want to put a stake on.
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If you only look at the rushing stats then you're going to have a terrible approximation of the dynamic threat that Westbrook actually was. At his peak he put up about 8000 combined yards of offense over a 67 game span. That number is absurd. That's 1600 yards per season per the 5 years those numbers encompass but on a per game basis it projects to closer to 2000 yards per season. That's the same kind of production LaDainian Tomlinson, an all-time great and surefire HoFer, put up in his (admittedly longer) prime.
Staley and Buckhalter certainy weren't in that same league but both were effective when healthy. Especially Buckhalter, the most injury prone man on the planet. Again, though, you have to judge them by their efficacy as receivers in addition to their production as runners. Andy Reid has never been good about balancing his passing attack with the run but, to his credit, he has managed to adequately substitute for the run game in spots with high percentage short passes and screens to his backs. In fact, I'd hazard to guess that those types of easy plays went a long way towards propping McNabb's stats up into the "adequate for his era" range.
Yeah, I remember the one time he stayed healthy for almost an entire season and he gained 2000 yards of offense. He was an explosive player, but he was virtually the only weapon McNabb had for his entire career. And never in his entire career did Westbrook play 16 games. Only 3 times in his career did he miss less then a quarter of a season.
Those short plays have alot more to do with a skilled coach in Reid adjusting for a general lack of talent at the offensive skill positions. He knew the best way to win was put the ball in the hands of the most skilled playermaker on the team, and that was McNabb. They stretched the field during the handful of years they had T.O. or D.Jax.
Brady did more with less, I agree completely. But he's a lead pipe lock first ballot HOFer.
Brees, no way he had less then McNabb. For one I'd say Eric Parker/McCardell/Boston still beats Pinkston/Thrash/Mitchell/Brown etc if we look at WR alone. For another Brees had LT, a virtual lock hall of famer. He'd be miles better then Westbrook even if he did stay healthy. For another he had one of the best tight ends of the era in Antonio Gates. Brees is also a very likely hall of famer.
One bad year with your team and the Vikings does not wipe out a successful career. Aside from Brady no other QB has done more with less. At this point his career probably won't get him into the HOF, but his body of work means he'll be mentioned and probably voted on occasionally in Canton.
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I wouldn't necessarily say that. McNabb may only have had a good receiving corps for about half of his career as a starter in Philly but he's still been propped up by some awfully good talent on the offensive line, at tight end, and especially at running back.
Quarterbacks have done more with less.
Brian Westbrook was a good player when he was healthy. I wouldn't go so far to say he propped up anybodys career, he had 2 great years but only gained 1000 yards rushing twice in his entire career. Unless you meant Duce Staley?
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A) 5 NFC Championships does not equal 4 Superbowls
B) Sanchez went to 2 Afc Championships in three years. Yet he doesn't get any credit for it, because people understand that the defense took the Jets to said Championships. Jim Johnson took the Eagles to the 5 Championships and McNabb was lucky enough to be there for the free ride.
C) McNabb got similar looking numbers in an era of football that is much more preferential to the offensive side of the ball.
The only positive McNabb has going for him is his low amount of interceptions. The only reason the number is so low is because he would throw the ball out of the reach of the CB and his receiver. This is not a HOF caliber qb and comparing him to Kelly is an insult to an actual HOFer
McNabb carried a putrid offense throughout the majority of his career and was a consistent winner. That doesn't put him in the hall of fame but it put him close. Much closer then some are willing to give him credit for.
Put another way, the Eagles were at or near the top of the division for a decade, went to 4 conference championships and a Super Bowl. Who else on those rosters is even mentioned as a HOF candidate? Maybe Brian Dawkins?
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It's not even close to being a fair comparison. Kelly lead his team to four SBs. McNabb rode Jim Johnson's coattails to 5 NFC Championship and 1 SB.
He still won zero SBs, same as McNabb, with Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed and a pretty loaded offense managed similar numbers in similar starts.
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What all time greats is he better than? You can't compare him to players in the distantt past IE Fout etc. because its an entirely different game.
You compare him to his peers. The ones he played with. And he was never a top QB in this generation. Not even close. As I mentioned before, his highest yardage total in his career for a season was best for 7th in the league, and one time he finished 3rd in TDs.....He only threw for 3500yds 3 times in 11 seasons....He has a putrid 59% comp percentage.....He threw over 25TDs ONCE.......
Manning, Brady, Favre, Brees are easily head and shoulders above McNabb....theres 4 QBs from his generation automatically in before he is.....Then, Warner will easily get recognition before he does.....theres 5.......Now, what about a guy like Randall Cunningham? Rich Gannon? Both of whom have All-Pros on there resume, a couple Players of the Year awards, and an MVP.....Theres 7.......Now, what about guys who aren't finished yet? Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Cutler, Romo. All of them will EASILY surpass McNabb numbers wise, barring injury....
Look at a guy like Romo......77Starts/64.5%/20834Yds/149Tds/96.9QBR
Compared to Mcnabb..........161starts/59%/37276yds/234Tds/85.6QBR....
So McNabb has 84 more starts......a much worse Comp%.....16,442 more yards (or 5 seasons of 3,000yds 4 of 3,500) and 85 more Tds (Or 4 seasons of 21 TDs)..........And thats just Tony Romo........Who avgs 3,400+yds a year (with an injury 1100Yd season)...24+ Tds a season......
I think Jim Kelly makes the better comparison, if you want to compare to someone in the Hall of Fame. Similar starts, stats and similar success/frustration in the postseason.
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It's a shame, he was a legitimately talented QB who very well could have been a HoF player but I think as time passes it becomes increasingly clear that he was held back tremendously by his own ego.
And a lack of offensive talent around him. He played with some amazing defenses, but he also carried some pitiful offenses over the years. He was on a HOF trajectory earlier in his career, but unless he comes back to the league and puts together an impressive twilight to his career he won't have a chance.
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Position by Position break down
Jay Cutler vs. Andrew Luck
I say this one is even. Although Cutler obviously has superiority in terms of experience, I would say Luck has more raw talent. Jay has a strong arm, however his decision making and accuracy has been a question throughout his career. I believe that combined with the Bears lack of an O-line and the impossible task of avoiding Freeney and Mathis, Cutler will kiss the ground many times throughout the game which should mess up his rhythm. Luck will do fine in his first outing, but not spectacular. He should be able to manage the game appropriatly in order to come out with the W.
Donald Brown vs. Matt Forte
There's just not enough complements you can give to Forte. He accounted for 75% of the Bears offense when he wasn't injured last year, and really was a large part of Jay Cutler's success. In fact, Forte's impressive career actually began against the Colts in 2008, when broke free for a 50-yard run to put the game out of reach. Coach Pagano will have a real test Week 1 to show the league he means business. If he can somehow devise a game plan which will limit Forte to at most 80 yards rushing, he will renew confidence in the defense and the organization. On the Colts side there's Donald Brown, who looks like he's about to have a make or break year. If Brown can such for 90+ yards with an improved line he should be on track for hopefully a 1,000 yard season. If not, all the more reason for him to be considered a bust. I give the upper hand to Forte.
Brandon Marshall & Earl Bennett vs Reggie Wayne & Austin Collie
Reggie Wayne is on the down end of his career but still has some gas left. He may not have the game-changing speed he used to have but he still has those reliable hands and stellar route running. Collie has tons of upside and potential, and I see him being a possession wide-out and go-to-guy for Andrew Luck. He should have a good game. If the Colts get a wide-out in the draft, such as Alshon Jeffery or Muhammad Sanu, it would help them a great deal. Brandon Marshall is now reunited with Cutler, and I see him being the savior to Chicago's receiver woes, as the Roy Williams experiment didn't work out last year. I believe Earl Bennet will be the game changer though, as the Colts don't have a reliable #2 corner currently on the roster. This could change if they get Janoris Jenkins in the 2nd round of the draft. I still give the Colts though, mainly due to more experience and skill.
Brian Urlacher & Lance Briggs vs Pat Angerer and Kavell Connor
Good news for Bears: Lance Briggs was recently resigned. Bad news: Brian Urlacher is reaching his down side. Pat Angerer was one of the top tacklers last year and Connor proved he can be a reliable starter. Both have tons of upside. But they have absolutely no depth behind them and the Bears have far more experience. Therefore i give the advantage to the Bears also because of what there playing against. Urlacher & Co. have to deal with Donald Brown and Delone Carter, while Angerer & Co. have Forte and Michael Bush. Nuff said.
Your thoughts?
Disagree on the QBs. I have high hopes for Luck, but Cutler is a very good pro QB and Luck is a rookie. They'll probably have us outmatched at every position unless Marshall gets suspended.
Of course that'll just make the upset sweeter.
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Seriously, all Manning needs to do to win the "politics" is win games. Calling some local beat writer in the grand scheme will mean little to nothing about how this thing is perceived long term. Manning could have been publicly bitter and railed against Irsay, never called anyone for any reason, and otherwise just generally thrown Indianapolis and the Colts organization under the bus and still come up smelling like roses in the national media.
Put away the tin foil hats and pay respects to the greatest athlete in the history of this town. He's a real class act who will be missed.
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The CIB is a mismanaged joke of 9 board members that I guarantee have never lost money. Just like politicians, they have zero accountability and absolutely no skin in the game. Regardless of how well or poorly they do their job they still profit. As far as the city losing money, no it did not.
But in this case they did well. Because the total bill was half a million dollars less then expected. 300k in expenses for a return of millions not to mention the prestige of the event. Big win for the CIB and the city of Indianapolis.
This is just an expense report.
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Both Freeney and Suggs contributed 29% to their respective teams total sacks last year. The Colts sucked out loud last year, it's hard to blame some of our stars for struggling.
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Decapitation would be a bummer....Seriously
Indeed. The month before the draft is definitely not a time to lose ones head.
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Nice!
*bump*
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Is that really even significant? 87% still seems pretty good for a 2 win team, and not that much less then 93%.
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This thread should probably be a sticky going forward. Don't know how many times I've heard people worry about Lucks knee, I'm sure it'll be asked again before the draft.
For another we have a promising new defensive scheme, a potential rookie phenom coming in to play QB, fresh blood on the offensive line...
Welcome To Indianapolis Coby Fleener
in Colts Football
Posted
154 posts in this thread to chose to respond to, and that's your choice?
Forgive a Colts fan his enthusiasm on draft day.