EastStreet
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Posts posted by EastStreet
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36 minutes ago, DarkSuperman87 said:
If you want Chester Rogers on this team then you love mediocre.
No team has 53 superstars. Having a reliable guy like Rogers as your 5th receiver is not loving mediocrity.
Honest question. What is your chosen 5 that would account for starting 3 (X, Z, Slot), back-up for those 3, and returns?
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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:
Today they rolled out a package of 6 dB. It had Desir, Moore, Rock, Geathers, hooker with Wilson covering the tight end. We will use everyone.
We've always had dime with 6 DBS, this is just a different variation (3-2-6 vs 4-1-6). Guessing the change is due to several factors, but probably 1) they don't want to take Leonard off the field like they did in dime last year, 2) they are more comfortable with the DL athleticism, and 3) they don't want to get abused by TEs.
Nickel (4-2-5) is really our true "base" defense that we're in most often, and we use a little dime (which might increase this year while facing better QBs) as well as some traditional "base" 4-3-4 with the SAM. What we use, and how much we use it will depend a lot on who we are playing, and the down and distance we're facing.
Here's a vid from early last year describing Flus's D. It's does a decent job of basic Xs and Os in the 3 different sets.
https://www.colts.com/video/football-101-4-3-scheme-breakdown-with-matt-eberflus
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4 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:
He wasnt really targeted in '16 tho.
im not knocking him, i am a fan of Chester.
But i see the same player, just more opportunities as the main difference. Especially last year when receivers were dropping like flies at times. But whether it was '18 , '16, or his rookie pre-season, Chester made plays when given the opportunity.
Chester was only targeted 3 more times in 17 vs 16, and he even improved his catch % in 17. While TY's targets went way down, CR's were pretty much the same. I think it's fair to say that regardless of looking at 16 when he had Luck, 17 when he had similar targets and yards with JB, he improved a great deal in 18 when called on, and has performed very well for being an UDFA.
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9 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:
From about 75' away i thought Speed looked very thin.
Ths picture shows otherwise. Nice.He is thinner than guys like Walker and Okereke, but he's also faster. As long as he can hit hard and wrap up, I'm good with that. So far hearing more about Speed than Okereke, but both sound safely on the 53.
10 hours ago, CR91 said:Pretty impressive. I still think Luck was the better reader of Ds, and better pure passer.
4 hours ago, CR91 said:"We saw a different dime look from the Colts on Saturday, Instead of the 4-1-6 look we saw from the Colts last year when they went to their dime personnel, the Colts used a 3-2-6 grouping on Saturday. It was three down linemen: Justin Houston, Al-Quadin Muhammad, Denico Autry; two linebackers: Darius Leonard, Anthony Walker; and six defensive backs: Kenny Moore, Pierre Desir, Quincy Wilson, Rock Ya-Sin, Clayton Geathers, Malik Hooker."
That's a very very solid Dime. I hope Banogu turns out the be the real deal and included along with Houston and Autry at some point.
4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:Dang. That is a lot of DB. That’s why we might keep more then expected. We are going to hit people in the mouth with that.
We used a lot of DBs last year, so not sure anything really changes. The dime last year was 6 DBs, the only change is one one less DL and one more LB. I think this has to do with potentially the improvement along the DL with the addition of Houston, plus the reality of getting burnt by TEs in the LB space last year.
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12 hours ago, aaron11 said:
fair catches dont count as returns or in the return yard average. havent looked at all the numbers, but thats probably making rodgers stats look better than he was
i say this because i thought he made several fair catches when he had 10+ yards of space
Like I said, he had plenty of FCs, but only 1 more than the league leading Roberts. Roberts only on had 1 less opportunity. Roberts also had 7 fumbles the last two years, compared to Rogers 1. Again, he's not a superstar, and he may play it safe, but he's safely in the top 3rd all things considered. We all want superstars at every position, but I'm happy when are players are in the top 3rd at their position.... I'd be happier if Hines or Campbell could take over without turning the ball over, but Hines struggled last year when given the chance, and PC has been up and down so far in camp.
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19 minutes ago, rock8591 said:
Rogers is overrated by this forum.
Anyone who watches the games, he was a non-factor in the return game. 80+% of his catches, he fair catches, or returns for minimal yardage.
I'd rather take a chance at Fountain and fail, then settle for a mediocre former.
he's no superstar returner, but ranked 12th in total return yards, 9th in average return yards, and 10th in longest return... And Andre Roberts who led the league in the average yards, and was second in total yards, had just one less fair catch (and one less opportunity).
that's not a non factor. That's in the top 3rd of the league (about the same rank both our O and D were in 2018), and was probably coached to be "safe".
perhaps you should take a look at stats instead of just watching the game?
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22 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:
Lazy? Nothing lazy about simple math. Chester's production rose about 60%. Luck's yardage was 66% higher than Brissett. So yes, i believe the BULK of the "improvement" was Luck. Much like Peyton "padded" some receiver's numbers.
That said, i think, due in part to injuries, he saw action in 16 games, versus 11 in 2017. Also catches went from 23 in'17 to 53 in '18. Targets went from 37 to 72 in '18.
I believe Chester has indeed improved (as a player should), but i think the biggest factor in his improvement is a guy named Andrew.
Hitlon went from 966 to 1270 yards as a comparison.
Like I said, remove 17 and compare 16 to 18 if you want to remove the JB factor. The story is the same, with Luck as the QB both years.
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3 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:
1 TY
2 funchess
3 campbell
4 Cain
5 pascal
6 Rogers
thats how how I see it playing out IF we keep 6. If Hines or Campbell can show some consistency in the return game then Rogers becomes expendable and we will only keep 5.
I think it's going to be interesting, and a very tough decision regardless.
In your scenario, and we keep 5 and Rogers is cut, what happens if Campbell or TY gets hurt. How do they fill out X, Slot, and Z? Feel free to use PS predictions in your answer.
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7 minutes ago, MPStack said:
For whatever it’s worth, Roger ‘s is playing well according to the article.
he's playing very well. I think it was Reich that said he was having his best camp ever.
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3 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:
From what i saw at 3 days of camp its going to be hard to keep Ya-Sin off the field. I kmow its just practice but even as a rookie he jumps out at you. He looks bigger, faster, more athletic, more physical than anyone we have on the roster right now including Desir.
he's definitely the most ripped.
i think he's starting at least by mid season.
he's going to be really fun to watch.
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21 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:
Ford...looking good right now in camp is one thing. Running physical in games is another. From what I saw of him in college and with the Bills he does not look to be the physical power runner that we really need. But we will see. I'm definitely disappointed that may not get to see Ware's physical style compliment our other backs in INDY.
I'm disappointed too on Ware.
I do disagree on Ford though. I know they are mostly highlights (and combine/draft reviews) that I'm basing my opinion on, but Ford does look pretty in short yardage situations. If you've followed him his entire career, I bow to your experience.
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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:
The only way he won’t be is if he still has a long way to go and they stick him on IR.
I agree. Short of injury, or dropping every pass in the pre season, he'll be on the roster.
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1 hour ago, MPStack said:
80% of the forum said Brissett was getting traded for a pot of gold. I disagreed!
A matter of opinion.
And I respect your opinion. I just disagree. I just find the evidence of him being on the 53 is mounting. Every rook that's doing well is a camp darling for now (including PC). Cain seems to be performing in a more than "healthy" manner. Cain and PC are both getting a ton of good press. And Cain was in arguably a more demanding offensive scheme in college.
Good call on JB. I do think they could have traded him if they wanted. Not for a pot of gold though. I think CB built up his public love/value too much to create a possible trade. And possibly wasn't willing to trade him at all.
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2 minutes ago, MPStack said:
Nope, I’m skeptical and don’t wet my pants over a 6th Rd pick camp darling, coming off a ACL injury as a lock.
Please, don’t regurgitate he’s a 2nd Rd talent and the Colts made a Documentary. It’s a matter of opinion.
I know now you and your buddy Chloe run the forum now, but I’m entitled to my option.
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion.
FYI - Chloe and I have butted heads several times. While we agree on Cain, there's plenty we don't agree on. And that's fine.
I'd say that 80+% of folks would say Cain will be on the 53 if healthy.
Guess we'll see.
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41 minutes ago, MPStack said:
The 4th WR spot smart guy!
So you're in Cain denial lol.
Even one of our starting DBs said Cain would be a household name this year.
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15 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:
The bulk of that "jump" was Brissett in 2017 and Luck in 2018.
But i am a Rogers fan. I hope he sticks. He was solid for us down the stretch last year. And for being smallish, he rarely seems to miss games.
I think that's a bit of a lazy argument. We can go back to 2016 when Rogers had similar stats (a little less) to 2017 with Luck. Bottom line, remove 17 and JB, and look at the 16 to 18 jump.
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Just now, dodsworth said:
Funch and Campbell will replace Grant and Inman from last year.
With TY taking the 3rd spot, that only leaves a couple positions open
for the receiver positions.
He played decent last year but if someone overtakes his spot on special
teams he is most likely toast.
Grant and Inman played the same position (X). It'd be more accurate to say Funch and Cain are replacing Grant and Inman (and perhaps Pascal). We did keep 3 Xs last year, but not sure that will happen again if both Funch and Cain are healthy.
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Marshall is simply due diligence. IMO, he'll fall into a plan D or more scenario. I think a lot of things would have to happen for us to grab him. Cain would have to take a step back, another X (likely Funch) would have to be injured, our PS would have to be decimated by other teams cherry picking, etc..
I'm glad we're turning over every stone, but I doubt there's anything to see here.
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1 minute ago, MPStack said:
He’s improved every year. What he brings to the return game, I don’t even think it’s debatable except to the Cain fans.
what does Rogers have to do with Cain?
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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:
So Ware has to sit out six games then they can bring him back. I doubt he ever sees a down as a colt.
Ware is a talented guy, and does a lot of things well (best power runner of the bunch). If he'll truly be back healthy, I absolutely think we see him. Having a fresh back coming in to contribute to start the 2nd 3rd of the season could be a very good thing. IIRC this will let us keep another RB while Ware is still protected in terms of the roster, correct? It's kinda like a nice insurance plan.
And.. I like the sound of Ford now if Ware is hurt. Even though he's a limited pure power back, I like the thought of a pure bulldozer type in short yardage situations when we play LAC and Houston (both top 10 vs the run last year) in the first 6 games.
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20 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:
I think we've seen the ceiling from Rogers. He's a dependable WR and dependable PR. He's not great, he's not flashy, and I don't think he's got game-changing potential. However, he does what he's asked to do well.
Guys like Ishmael, Fountain, Johnson, etc. (IMO) have more potential than Rogers, but they haven't shown to be as consistent, reliable, or dependable. I think you're right, unless the younger guys take their potential and make it consistent, Rogers sticks around.
I don't disagree that others have better measureables, and perhaps a higher ceiling. I would say that Rogers has a higher floor than those you've listed though. Rogers does the basics and little things very well, while a lot of the high ceiling folks are raw and struggle with the basics like routes, beating the press, and simply consistency catching the ball. Same on returns... No flash, but he catches the ball and had a top 10ish average IIRC.
Also, Rogers made a very nice jump from 2017 to 2018 going from 284 to 485 yards receiving yards, 377 to 706 all purpose. Not having a well rounded X WR made it harder on both TY (who got doubled a lot), and on any WR (typically CR) playing across the middle. With all the pains and challenges (new offense, musical chairs at OL to start the year, musical chairs at X all year, TY's injury), all he did was go out and improve his receiving yards by 71%. He also had a 74% catch rate in the regular season, and 82% in the playoffs.
Right now I'm going with 60/40 that he makes the team.
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10 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:
I have been a fan of the feisty Rogers since his rookie year when he out-played our 1st round pick. He just seems to go about his business of over-achieving and surprising us every year when he is "still here." I know we could do "better", but I am really pulling for the guy. He's one of my favorites. I love underdogs.
Rogers went from 284 to 485 receiving yards from 2017 to 2018. Also improved return yards from 80 to 215. 700+ all purpose yards. While not flashy, that's pretty good improvement. And he was absolutely the most reliable WR last year after TY. His catch % was 74% in the regular season, and 82% in the playoffs.
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11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:
The couple podcast I listened to today said he has looked great. It sounds like he could be a starter if we needed it. He is getting time with the first team.
I phoned up a buddy back in Indy who has been at camp. He told me he (Willis) was running with the ones, but wasn't a noticeable play maker while out there. My buddy did stress that most of the rooks and newcomers were getting time with the ones. He said the rooks that have impressed him so far are PC, Rock, and Speed. Said he needed to see more Banogu so couldn't really give an opinion on him. Said Okereke is inconsistent. Played great at times vs smaller WRs, but gets abused by speedy and big guys. He said he's most high on Cain. I should have asked him about Kindred as I haven't really heard anything about him either. I'll do that tomorrow.
8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:All I can think of is they play him to much and gets injured. Then what if luck can’t play that first game. I bet he doesn’t get much time because a lot of starters won’t play. We can’t afford him to get injured.
We'll see, but I don't think the outlook on AL is bad enough to limit JB that much. Guess we'll see.
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Has there been any reports on KWillis? I really didn't expect a bunch, but I don't think I recall hearing one thing about him.
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Will Chester Rogers be on the 53 man squad?
in Colts Football
Posted
It's not difficult. The guy improved and performed when called upon. You want to minimize that improvement.