IndyTrav
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Posts posted by IndyTrav
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This is still a debate?!
Everyone is to blame......
The ST coach for calling it on the 35.
Every Coach and Player on the sideline and in the game that didn't call TO when it was immediately known it wasnt going to work.
Whalen for snapping it
Anderson for giving him someone to snap it too
The best (worst?) part is we tried to outcoach Bill B, and his team looked intelligent and disciplined on the play, and we became a national laughing stock......If your gonna go at the champ, don't trip over your own feet and knock yourself out on the way to the ring.....
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I've unfortunately watched nearly every minute of Denver this season, and I still cannot figure out if its really Kubiaks offense bringing them down, or if its Peyton brining them down. It seems to be pretty trendy to blame Kubiak but Im just not sold on that being the case.....Peyton doesn't look mobile enough to be under center (his age and OL play), so they are doing it all in Pistol or Shotgun, and when they are in Pistol it looks to me like the RB is at minimum 7yds behind the LoS, sometimes 10yds....Defenses are daring them to throw the ball, and stacking everyone up front. RBs are having to beat the stacks, and run 7-10yds just to get to the LoS.....He is able to get the ball 20+yds downfield but its taking his entire body to do it. Hes throwing himself into every throw, reminds me of an old timey baseball pitcher that would wind all the way back and then thrust himself forward....That 1st pick to Dansby (the 2nd wasn't ness on Peyton) was a simple 15yd throw over the middle and he stepped into it, throwing with mostly his arm, and it was telegraphed, slow, and would have been either 2yds behind Sanders, or picked by the DB....
He's not going to get any better. He's already struggling, and I cannot get behind the "he will get better" or "hes saving himself"....Its a long season, and he's only 6 games in, played cupcakes, and it aint cold yet...This is gonna get ugly and its gonna get ugly quick....
Im watching him now, and can't help but think its Favre all over again. A nice previous year (NFC Champ Game) then completely fell off the face of the earth....
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My Power Rankings
Denver 1 (best Defense in the league)
New England 2
Green Bay 3
Cincy 4
Carolina 5
I don't know about Denver being the best defense in the league.....They have played phenomenal, but the offenses they have faced are mediocre at best. Balt, KC, Det, Minn, Oak, Cleve......A combined 10-24 record....
I think I'd have to put Cincy first, followed by GB...
I think Carolina deserves some praise tho. They've played a soft schedule so far but they have also over come some pretty significant injuries.
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Because firing coaches in week 6 is stupid
worked for the Dolphins who just crushed a team we needed a handout from to beat......
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Im not mad.
Im pretty apathetic.
This is what I've come to expect from the Colts for the last 25yrs. Moral Victories and the CouldaWouldaShoulda's......
Offense was ok....Basically scored 14pts at home, can't really say it was that impressive vs a middle of the road defense.
I guess the defense did ok. They only gave up 34pts at home, and not the 60 I was expecting...."well if they didn't have this play, and this play, and this play, and this play it woulda been better, we coulda won"...Yup, pretty amazing how a few bad plays can lead to a team losing....
Just gonna hang on thru the regular season, look for a 9-7 season, and hope we can pull a Ravens/Pitt/NYG playoff run and get hot at the right time. Thats all we can do.
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I think moncrief certainly can challenge for the best no 2 wr in the league IMO terrance Williams is the best no 2 (when dez is in) not a cowboys fan btw
Williams? Really?
Tate, Decker, Sanders, Bryant, any of the Cards WR, jags #2, bills #2,dolphins #2.....The list is pretty long before i'd even consider Williams.
As for Moncrief, he will probably end up replacing TY as the season progressess as our "#1"
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Its an entire comedy of errors.
Pick someone and you are not wrong.
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There is no integrity, Cheaters win, this is a shame, judge is a liberal/conservative, NFL is rigged, Im gonna quit watching, you can do whatever you want now because inmates rule the asylum.....
All these things, and more, have been said in this thread so far.....All because of 0.5psi +/-......my god.....This is what makes people go after each others throats....0.5psi +/-....unreal.
Lets just play some dang football.
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The bolded he is objectively better than. Anybody who disagrees is just being an edgy contrarian.
I dont think its contrarian at all. TY is great, I'd probably pick him over several of those guys. But I dont think Bills fans are picking TY over Watkins. Hopkins I think may be something special when finally given the opportunity, matter of fact his #s are near identical to TYs first 2 yrs, less TDs, worse QB play. Cooks was well on his way until his injury. Benjamin finished his rookie year with 1,000yds and 9tds, Keenan Allens first 2 years are near identical as well...There is a pretty easy 'objective' argument for at least 6 of those guys, maybe 8...
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Using arbirtray cut offs (110rec, 1500 yds) doesn't really mean a whole lot to me in this discussion. Why not 90rec? Why not 85?
We can compare there two best years.
Moss 111/1632/17....98/1493/23...so 209rec/3125yds/40tds
Marv 143/1722/11....115/1663/12....so 258rec/3385yds/23tds
In there 2 career years, Marvin had 49 more rec, 260 more yards, and a whopping 17 less Tds...Marvin was also targeted 57 more times in that span. I'd say the 102 pt discrepancy between the two is much more significant than the 260yds or 49rec....
Marv was the model of consistency. His 8 year run was nothing short of amazing....And yet Moss still had more 1k seasons, and double digit TD seasons.
I don't know how you can say the Patriots were "stacked" the year that Moss scored 23tds, and imply that somehow diminishes what Moss did, and then completely ignore the the "stacked" teams Marv played on 85% of his career.
Marv was incredible for 8-9 years. Moss was incredible for 10-11 years. Had Moss retired in 2010 (when he probably should have) and been 2 games under Marv, with a 100 less yds and 20 more TDs, would this still be a convo? Because it seems to me the main argument is "Moss played longer" and "He didn't have a consistent 8yr stretch".....And both of those are true, but it doesn't change the fact that this body of work is right on par with Marvin, exchanging rec for tds.
I'll closing I'll say that there was nothing Marvin Harrison could do, that Randy Moss also could not do on a football field. However, Randy could do things Marvin could never do.
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Your never gonna hear me say Marvin wasn't a great WR. Ever.
But in comparison to those two players (Moss/Owens) he had every possible benefit....The per game #s are absurdly close, in fact they are so close its amazing given the amount of years they all played, and for them to be that finite.
Sure TO had some pretty nice pieces on occasion. So did Moss. But to say that Marvin didnt have the upper hand in nearly every possible scenario, i think is dis-honest.....Full career with one team (TO/Moss both are to blame for there own demises to an extent IMO). Consistent coaching, franchise stability, QB play, Scheme, Indoors, Weaker Division (guess on my part without looking) etc etc. Marvin has the upper hand in all of it.....Thats not a knock on Marvin, that doesn't take away from how amazing he was, or to say that he wouldn't be amazing in other scenarios. But when judging guys who are so absurdly close, statistically, I think its fair to put the scenarios each player played in, in perspective....Also a fair point would be include playoff performances, and that comparison would not be kind to Marvin.
MH-16g-65rec/883yds/2tds....And both those TDs were in the same game.
RM-15g 54rec/977yds/10tds
TO-12g 54rec/751yds/5tds
You can have the TO is better than Marv, I dont ness. disagree, or agree, thats kind of a whatever to me. I can see both sides pretty clearly, and don't care one way or the other. TO doesn't need defended, neither does Marv. Two completely different beasts, but both great in there own way.
I've said before, I am 100% Randy Moss biased. I will never be convinced that he wasn't the best WR I ever saw. regardless of stats, scenarios etc. I saw Jerrys last 10-12 years, can't say I recall early Jerry, but I was around. And still Moss is the best I ever saw....I do not think it is a coincidence that Randy Moss was the #1 WR on 2 of the 3 highest scoring offenses of all time. about 10 years apart...marvs best seasons dont come close to Randys.
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Hay @steamboat_shaun,and @IndyTrav.I don't mean to take the steam out of your engine, but if we want to use your sites, you actually prove my point.
Moss= Games =219, yards = 15,200
Marvin= 190, yards= 14,500
T.Owens= 219, yards= 15,900
What we see here is that, Owens and moss played 29 more games right? And had 1500 more yards. How many games are in a season 16 right? They almost played 2 whole seasons more than Marvin. So if Marvin played just as many games, what does that mean? Just becuz B.Farve played for half a century, doesn't make him the greatest QB ever. You got to be more careful.
And Moss only had 700 more yards than Marvin, despite playing 29 more games.
I don't think those guys should be docked for playing longer....Honestly, I believe that to be a plus....and as for per game averages...
MH-6rec/77yds/.7tds
TO-5rec/73yds/.7tds
RM-4.5rec/70yds/.7tds
@BOTT. Yes Marvin played with Peyton. And J.Rice played with Joe Mantana. What's your point.(waiting.....) If numbers don't matter, then Peyton wouldn't even be considered a top 3-5 QB of all time. Juse saying.
And because numbers does carry leverage including contracts, etc. Players get paid, and Manning is considered a top 3-5 QB of all time. HOW many rings does Peyton have? Younger brother Eli have more. (Didn't mean to)
If numbers do matter, which seems to be the argument you are implying, then TO and Moss are better than Marvin. They have more yards and TDs.
Marvin was one of the greatest WR of all time, aint no one gonna argue that....But he did have the benefit of playing with one of the greatest QBs of all time. For nearly his entire career no less. The bond those 2 formed was something special. Moss and TO on the other hand, never really had that chance, sometimes thru there own actions, and other times thru no fault of there own....
Marvin caught 87% of his career TDs from Peyton....Randy Moss most TDs came from Daunte Culpepper (34%) and TO caught the most from Jeff Garcia (32%).
I personally view Randy Moss as the greatest WR of all time, not Rice. So I may be a bit biased.
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I'm sorry did you just compare Terell Owens to Marvin Harrison?
....TO was better.... Hands weren't as good as Marvs, but was an athletic freak....Total nut job, and diva, but an absolute monster on the football field.....
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Marvin= outside of J.Rice, the greatest WR of all time. I dare anyone find stats, to prove the contrary,
Heres one:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm
Heres another:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OwenTe00.htm
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No, what a player does after his contract isn't a reflection of the market that dictated his contract, and this is a very simple concept. His market is dictated, far more than anything else, by what he did prior to his contract. And that's why Golden Tate got $6.2m/year, and not the $10-12m/year that his 2014 production would likely command.
You are misinterpreting what i am saying. This year teams will look back on say Mike Wallaces/Vjax contracts, and come to the conclusion, that paying a nice player but not great player isn't worth it, and are now going to look for the Golden Tates of the world. The guy who won't cost a lot, has some talent, but hasn't been given the opportunity....There will always be the one team that is bidding against itself, making stupid purchases, but that doesn't accurately reflect the majority of the NFL.
And yes, better players get more opportunities. Which is a simple explanation for why Hilton has received more opportunities than Golden Tate, particularly prior to 2014.
Thats not true at all. As a general rule of thumb, sure but not thats not always the case. We can list hundreds of players who have withered away on a bench, only to be given a chance to succeed and flourish...Some times its draft position, favoritism, coaching ineptness, or plain ignorance.
GMs don't disqualify receivers from being #1 options because of their height, and there are plenty of examples, including Antonio Brown. Sorry you hate hearing about him, but he's the most obvious example right now of a #1 receiver who should never have to hear anyone talk about how he's only 5'10". It doesn't matter. He produces.
Again, you are continually nailing down a point that no one is arguing. Height has nothing to do with talented players. What we are discussing is IDENTICAL players or close to. And if 2 guys are both 85/1200/6 guys with good hands and speed, then GMs are likely to take the guy who is 2"-6" taller. Just because your short doesn't mean you cant be great. Ive never seen anyone make that argument, just because your short doesn't mean you cant be a #1.
To the bolded, nice strawman. I've never suggested that Hilton would get Dez/DT money, or that he deserves what Antonio Bown would get. But he's certainly not in whatever you're calling "the muddy middle." He's one of the best young receivers in the league.
Lol at the "strawman"... your comment was "If Antonio Brown was a FA he'd get Dez/DT $"...yea he would because hes led the league in nearly every receiving category for 2 seasons....Anyone, TY included, would get Dez/DT money if they led the league in nearly every WR category......
And yes, TY is 100% in the muddy middle. He is 100% one of the better young WR in the league. Lets name a few. Watkins, Benjamin, Evans, Beckham Jr, Cobb, Maclin, Hopkins, Mathews, Sanders, Cooks, Allen, Tate, Wallace, Jackson, Floyd, Landry, Johnson....Theres 17 guys. He may be a bit better than a few of those guys. Probably not as valuable as a few others....And this is without even getting into the 6-7 big dogs at WR....So yea, he's right near the muddy middle IMO.
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When you're talking about a player's contract, you look at his production from before he did the contract. That's how his market was determined. The subsequent years don't matter.
And you're making all these arbitrary adjustments and considerations for guys like Golden Tate and James Jones, and that's also not how it works. Production is the major consideration, not opportunities. No player has ever won a negotiation by saying "I'd have more yards if you threw me the ball more." Receivers especially get opportunities because of how well they play their position.
And even then, if you compare Hilton's last two years to any two years from Tate and Jones, he blows them out of the water. You can use their best two seasons, consecutive or not. Matter of fact, the only way you can compare them to Hilton if you combine the two best seasons between them, and they don't compare to Hilton's last two years (Hilton outgains them by 313 yards, has one fewer reception, and 6 fewer TDs; and that's only if I use James Jones' 14 TD 2012 season, which is clearly an anomaly). Hilton is far and away better than both of them. They are not comparables.
I love how you left out 2 of the 4 distinctions between Decker and Hilton: #2 receiver (Hilton was the Colts #1 receiver all of 2014 and most of 2013); vertical threat, as yards/catch demonstrate. And while Luck has set records as a young QB, those aren't all time records, and so the distinction between Decker's QB and Hilton's QB remains. And it's debatable, but in light of the foregoing, Hilton isn't considered a product of his environment. Yes, he plays with a good QB, but that doesn't diminish his talent and ability anymore than Antonio Brown is diminished by playing with Ben Roethlisberger.
I don't know why people think Hilton's height means he isn't viewed as a #1 option. Two inches doesn't differentiate him from Maclin, Wallace, etc.. He's been the primary receiver for Luck for the better part of two seasons, and has produced in that role. He's the same size as Antonio Brown, who if he were on the market right now would get Dez/DT money for sure. When Desean Jackson was more productive, and in a suppressed cap environment, he made $9.7m/year, and he's the same size as Hilton.
Vincent Jackson can be as tall as he wants, but that doesn't make him better than anyone that we're discussing, including Hilton. Similar production is the only reason Jackson belongs in the discussion, and while I don't like his game, I have to grant him that; still, you can't negotiate with Hilton by saying 'you have similar numbers to Vincent Jackson, but he's 7 inches taller than you so you can't demand his salary.' Nah. Jackson's deal was $11m/year, and was also in a suppressed cap environment three years ago. The market dictated $11m/year for Vincent Jackson and $12m/year for Mike Wallace, but it's not set for Hilton? Makes no sense.
Nice burn about the coaching staff... Why would they not expect their best receiver to do more than 65 catches? In his fourth season, Hilton's production is going to regress back to near what he did in his rookie year? That spills the bounds of logic. All these weapons that the team has don't mean that the best weapon isn't going to produce at a high level.
I'd prefer Hilton produce well in 2015 and help the team win games, not that he has an unimpressive first 6 weeks and then gets hurt so we can get him at a discount. Not sure what kind of angle that is... anyone who gets hurt has their market affected. But Jeremy Maclin got $11m/year one season removed from a significant leg injury, on one year's worth of high level production. It's more likely that Hilton would take the one year deal and then get to free agency again than sign a long term deal for less than what his talent says he's worth.
Thats 100% foolish to think that teams do not look at players production after signing a contract. You don't think every single team took notice of the chasm between Wallaces pay grade, and production? You dont think every single GM in the league isn't saying to themselves "Well,Im not gonna make that mistake"..
Again foolish, to say opportunity doesn't translate into contract negotiations. Your favorite card seems to be "...well Antonio Brown..." well how did Antonio get his nice contract extension after not having blow you away #s his first 2 years? Oh, maybe because a team thought they had a nice player and knew what he was capable of when given a heavier workload?
And of course Hilton "blows them out of the water" because he was given the chance too. I know it seems incredible to think that a guy who has 300 footballs thrown his way can outproduce a guy who has 100 thrown his way. Fascinating concept. Again, failed to be acknowledged by you, but Tate was finally given an opportunity equal to TYs for the most part (lesser QB, best WR in league playing opposite) this past season, and he and TY put up near identical numbers....Funny how that worked....
Theres that phrase again used to justify Hilton. "Vertical Threat"...You know what Decker was? "A scoring machine." Who somehow managed to score 8TDs with Tim Tebow as a starting QB. Which is 1 more than TYs highest season.....Decker was a #2 to TYs #1, I guess thats why Deckers last 2 years in Den, and TYs best 2 years in Indy are separated by a total of 12 targets....
I didn't realize his height kept him from being a #1 option? I thought we were discussing players who are comparable in nearly every way, and some of the differences were anywhere between 2"-8"...Because again its foolish to think that a GM doesn't look at two production comparable WR, and favor the one with size.....Again, theres your Brown card. Love pulling that one out. Maybe TY would get Dez/DT $ if he led the league in Rec/Yds and was 2nd in rec/yds like Brown has been the past 2 years....Size aint got nothing to do with it for Brown, because not to many people are in his league....TY is playing in the muddy middle, so you better believe his size matters.....
Again, you go on and on about "market'....There is no market. Bad teams and bad GMs sign these contracts.There was no market for Vjax at $11mill, it was 2-3 inept teams. Same for Wallace....If you want to call that a market, you go right on ahead. Perhaps thats why the Bucs are and have been cellar dwellers for the last 3years, because they 'set the market' for Pretty Darn Good/Not Great WRs....
That spills the bounds of logic? Let me clear it up for you. Are the Colts going to lead the league in Pass Attempts again? Probably not, due to an upgradedish OL, RB, and the fact our schedule looks like we will be in garbage time with 10min left in the 4th qt in about 10 games.
Will the addition of Andre Johnson, a healthy Dwayne Allen, Frank Gore, Dorsett, an improving Moncrief, and possibly Carter eat into what is already probably going to be a lesser amount of attempts. Probably yes.....Do you know what the top 29 WR in the NFL in yards had in common last season? All of them but 4 had over 120 targets, the ones who missed the cut, had 119, 115, 117, and 95 targets....TY was at 131 last year, I think its a fairly safe guess that his targets are going to go down, as will his yardage and TDs...And of those 29 TY is right in the middle of catch %, and some of those guys had some pretty awful guys chucking the ball to them....
I think everyone wants TY to perform well this season. Him breaking his leg isn't an angle. Its a possibility.
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Shenanigans. I don't know what numbers you're using, but they're mostly wrong.
Through his first three years, Hilton has 214 catches for 3,289 yards and 19 TDs.
James Jones signed in 2011 for three years, $9.7m. New CBA, reduced cap, money was tight for everyone. The previous three years, he had 142 catches for 1,393 yards and 11 TDs. He is not a comp to Hilton, not even close.
Golden Tate signed last year for five years, $31m. His previous three years, he had 144 catches for 1,968 yards and 15 TDs. He is not a comp to Hilton.
Eric Decker signed last year for five years, $36.25m. His previous three years, he had 216 catches for 2,964 yards and 32 TDs. He's a comp statistically, even outdoes Hilton by a fair amount in TDs. Problem is that he was seen as a product of his environment -- a #2 receiver on a pass happy team with a QB that was in the process of rewriting every record in the books. And he wasn't really considered a vertical threat, not a guy that would take the top off the defense, which is supported by his 13.7 yards/catch in those three years. There's a statistical comparison there, but overall, he's not really a comparable player and doesn't have comparable leverage or market value. All these are reasons why he got less on the open market than Antonio Brown did two years earlier on a pre-free agency contract.
Besides, he's only one comp. For the one Eric Decker, there's Jeremy Maclin, Mike Wallace and Vincent Jackson. And Hilton's production is better than those three. By the time Hilton's fourth year is on the books and we're not looking at the rookie season anymore, his numbers will be better than Decker's also.
I don't understand your projection for Hilton's 2015, either. It presumes that in his fourth year, not only will he not be any more effective/efficient, but he also won't benefit from the presumed increased effectiveness and efficiency of the players around him. I'm confident that the Colts staff expects more than 65 catches for 1,000 yards from TY Hilton.
I used the last 3 seasons each has played. Some with there new teams. ....Jones signed in 2014, with Oak.
If you'd like I could compare there last 2 years with there old team against, TYs last 2 years in Indy (since this season hasn't happened yet)......And I won't do Decker, since he outperformed TY......TY had more yards/rec than both, Less TDs than Jones, and the same amount of TDs as Tate.... The yards and rec shouldn't really be to hard to swallow considering TYs team threw the ball 418x more than Tates team in that span, and 115x more than Jones team....Or the fact that TY had 79 more targets than Jones, or a whopping 103 more targets than Tate.....So yea, I'd say given the same amount of volume, both those players are clearly in TYs league, and frankly would probably out produce him by a significant margin if given the chance...Tate just about did it last year with a new team, new offense, new qb, and Calvin Johnson next to him....
Its classic how Decker "was a product of his environment, with a record breaking QB" as part of an excuse to why his contract was so low......because that label couldn't possibly be applied to TY.....
"For every Decker there is a Maclin"...who had a monster year last year, and successful years prior, with Foles/Sanchez, Vick, McNabb as his QBs and went to a team with his former coach...Also is 6' 200lbs....Or there is a Mike Wallace, who avgd 1000yds an 8tds a year on a run first team in arguably the hardest division in the league, also 6' tall.....Or Vincent Jackson, who basically avg 1100/8tds and is 6'5" 240lbs........Yea those guys are really comparable to TY.....You know whos not comparable apparently, guys like Golden Tate ($6mill), Desean Jackson($8mill).
When did you speak to the coaching staff? What else did they have to say? Did they mention anything about not leading the league in attempts this year? Or how we are going to divide up the touches amongst the 8 or so capable weapons? Whats your confidence in that?
You can go on and on about how the market is set, and it doesnt really matter. Markets being set is only relevant to the upper echelon players, or ones who managed to bet on themselves and win big with a nice year (flaccooooo) Just because someone paid 500k for a Lambo doesn't mean your gonna get 500k for your Corvette.....There are at least 25 WR in this league that are interchangeable, about 7 more that are undeniable grade A talent, and TY isn't in that 7.....
Of course all this is moot if he goes out and shatters his leg in week 8 after an unimpressive 7 games prior, and we get him for $6
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Well hopefully we dont pay him that kind of money, and he lands somewhere near the Cobb mark. But frankly, Im ok with letting him walk as well. (If we spend the money wisely, tough call).
And as for all the people getting up in arms about "$8mill thats a joke!" there is plenty of precedent if you look.
TY will be going into his age 27 season (next yr), and since this yr isnt complete, his current 3 year totals are 214rec-3289yds-19tds
A player going into his age 29 season signed a contract for $3.6yr and his last 3 years are 196rec-2,267yds-23tds.
Another player going into his age 25 season signed a contract for $6.2yr and his last 3 years are 208rec-2,917yds-16tds
Another player going into his age 26 season signed a contract for $7.2yr and his last 3 yrs are 244rec-3314yds-29tds
So TY had 18rec/1,022yds more than player A, but 4 less tds...6rec/372yds/3tds more than player B...30rec/25yds/10tds less than player C......
All that being said, I fully expect TY's raw #s to go down this season. With what looks to be a pretty nice schedule, I don't know that I expect us to lead the league in Pass Attempts again, hopefully landing somewhere in the low 600 range. Additions to our WR core in Andre, Carter, Dorsett, Gore. An uptick in Moncrief, and a hopefully healthy Allen with Fleener, the ball may not fly TYs way 130+ times again this year. More than likely he is in the 105 range. 105 targets, holding last yrs catch rate and career ypc would put him around 65rec/1,001yds/5td range.....All guess work of course.
Btw those 3 wr were James Jones, Golden Tate, and Erick Decker
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I don't know that anyone "hates" Fleener, but with the excitement that came from his combine, his draft position, and the expectations that came with it, he's been somewhat underwhelming....maybe that's our own fault as fans, but he's a nice overall player, but I can't say he is any better than 20 other TEs in the league, and we can't even agree that he's the best TE on his own team....again, nice player, hope he resigns for cheap, but I don't think I will ever go to bat for the guy against any other TE.
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Maybe this is a dumb question that's been answered a 100x but I haven't really paid much attention to this whole thing.
Why do two different refs have 2 seperate sets of numbers? Are they sitting next to each other measuring directly after one another?
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When do you draw the line of a guy/team making a play.....versus "they taped our plays they knew it was coming, they are cheaters".....
Are all Patriots take aways the result of cheating according to you?
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Some people talk to pump themselves up. Sherman appears to be one of those guys. More power to him. If you don't dig it, that's cool. I know I'd want him to play for my team on Sundays classless or not.
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Marvin reached those numbers in 65 less games than Brown.
Is that a good our a bad thing? Is it more amazing that Marvin accomplished his in less time, or that Brown played longer?
As a Colts fan, all things considered, Browns career is much more impressive to me, and apparently the voters feel the same way. Not a knock, or slight on Marv, and it will never take away the amazing career he had.
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I think it was Brown, and I think it was a no brainer. We all love Marv, but he was never gonna be a first or 2nd ballot guy. He had some amazing years but he has an awful lot working against him.....He wasn't vocal, he was washed up at age 34, his playoff performances were abysmal, he had Peyton as his QB, and he played in a friendlier era for about half his career.
Brown is 5th/6th/7th in the major rec. categories, and Marvin is 3rd/7th/5th......Brown has waited his turn, and now Marvin will too.
Im curious to see if the same people who have been upset with Marv not making it in quickly, will feel the same way if TO is held out as well, seeing as how his career was better. TO currently ranks 6th/2nd/3rd in the major categories, in much worse circumstances.
Our HC may be a "5", but our GM is a "2"
in Colts Football
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I think we are middle of the road both talent and coaching wise.
Which really isnt a good thing when you have a franchise QB.