DougDew

As a matter of discussing hypotheticals and possibilities, you have to speculate facts then form opinions to have a discussion. If you came to this forum only allowed to speak to about actual facts as they are, nobody here knows enough about the Colts to actually have much to say. What I said was probably in response to somebody else implying my opinion was not valid because I did not support it with a Link. As a the topic of JT, there are two layers here that folks are blending into one. There was a period of time when JT said that he wanted to be traded. At that point I expressed an opinion about what his trade value would be given the fact that he wanted a new contract with any team...and...the other team thinking JT would not return to the Colts. I said I'd take two 4th rounders, when everybody else said that he was a good enough player to command a 2nd or a 1st. The 2 4th rounders was not reflective of JT as a talent, but reflective of the stalemate situation where it seemed the Colts would have to sort of dump him because of JTs stubbornness. Part of that stubbornness was based upon the reports (rumors) that he wanted $18m per year and the wide spread indications that JT was exaggerating an injury to get out of Indy. If all of that was true, then certain speculative discussions can spiral away from that centerpiece. During that time, I never expressed an attitude that losing JT would be a great loss. I didn't cry about not having him on the Colts. Since I don't know what the poster is referring to when asked why he thinks I "dislike" JT, I can only assume its because of that. Do you follow so far? Then out of nowhere, its announced that JT has signed a contract for $14m. So the idea that JT was being stubborn in not wanting to play for Indy, wanting $18m per year, and exaggerating an injury were pretty much debunked.....Therefore, all speculative discussions that were based upon those negative reports about JTs attitude disappear instantly. They no longer exist because the basis was never true to begin with. Now we have a guy who wasn't exaggerating his injury, and was fine with playing for the Colts. I that case don't have an issue with $14m for JT (negotiating with him trying to get him back to the club when he "had a bad attitude" is different). And if you ever wanted to research my comments, I never said anything about how many millions of dollars he should be paid. As a matter of practice, I never do that about any player because my sense of compensation or price with just about anything does not seem to reflect what others might pay for it...and I'm not just talking about football. As a general rule though I'd say that teams should not get into a bidding war paying top dollar to retain non impact or nonballhandling positions.

To yourself only, which is why your post hasn't gathered many likes. There are folks who's positivity on anything Colts or players runs at 100 mph, risking a reckless crash and burn should things not work out. There are other folks who simply run at about 40 mph. But the folks running at 100 mph see the lack of similar enthusiasm as something that must be driven by hidden hate. 40 mph vs their 100 mph is seen as a completely different take. So the folks who don't cheer at JT rejoining the team at $14m are seen as disliking JT. Not cheering is not the same as disliking. A position that doesn't cheer at the signing, and later says there is no problem with the signing, is exactly the same position. But, if a person sees the lack of cheering as signaling hate...and then the "no problem with" as signaling like....they think its a change of position.

I think what you are getting pushback from is the idea that Irsay publicly has said that agents told him that elite FAs won't sign to Indy because of geography/culture and need more money to offset that. What I personally find odd is that Irsay is basically telling us that the football player market thinks Indy and its people kind of stink as a town...and Irsay doesn't seem to offer any pushback to that. Did he tell the agents he thinks they are wrong? That Indy has a lot to offer an athlete, if they are not all cut from the same cloth? I would think that if Irsay publicly tells us what football players think of the city, that he would follow that up with telling us how he defended his city and its people. Silence seems weird, with sort of an implied agreement with the agents' opinion.

You seem to remember more about what I post than what you post. That's weird. I probably wrote the second time to include JT because JT was the main topic? 37 or 41, RB or not, I assume the points were close enough to resemble the same basic thought. I hope that when a similar topic comes up, I post the similar thought close to how I posted it the other times. LOL. OK, so the answer is that you don't remember Irsay providing us with the reasons agents said why he has to pay more than other teams to get a player to come to Indy. That's fine.

Do you feel sorry for JT? Or yourself because your favorite team might not have its star player? I feel neither sorry for JT or myself, because I guess we see things differently about the injury and its consequences.

I guess you are not following the hypothetical, or do but are now trying to turn something I said as a hypothetical into something literal. There are several of us questioning your contention that Irsay himself said that Indy...as a geography of market or city...is not a destination for free agents, which puts him and his GMs at a disadvantage to (essentially) building a competitive team. I would hope if this has been the prevailing message given to him over 25 years by agents, that the reasons he was given would have spilled out at some point. A facture or a ligament?

First of all, don't misrep what I said. I said IF Irsay thinks Indy is a hick town and he persistently stereotypes elite free agents as all wanting something more worldly (or not) than what Indy has to offer...as reason why FAs won't come here, I think he probably should resign as an NFL owner. I guess I'm just left with him not giving any reasons why Indy is perennially a losing city when it comes to free agent competition.

I laughed when I broke my toe. I can laugh at JT hurting his thumb given the circumstances. I'm not going along with any popular definition of sensitivity on the matter. Instead, the world would be a better place if people deferred to mine. Can you repeat what I said about JT that gives you that conclusion? The harshest of which was during a time when he himself (reportedly) said that he would never play for the Colts again. BTW, if I truly "disliked" JT, why would I need to avoid it just because you point it out? Plenty of people here still maintain he should not have the money. I am not one of them. I'm pretty neutral about it, and hope he breaks off a few big runs to earn it. Maybe he won't have the playing time now.

You're defending Irsay here without ever getting to the point of what you wrote. Why does Irsay think that Indy is not a destination for FA? If that's what Irsay has been told over the past 25 years by a variety of GMs, players, and agents, certainly he can repeat the reasons he's been given. What are the reasons Irsay has given as to why free agents don't want to come to Indy?

I think you need to walk back your post. Its a thumb injury that's not even certain to be severe, as its been presented to us thus far. I'd wager that in a few weeks of doing nothing, he's going to have a fully functional hand and it will have no impact on his ability to lead a full life until age 80. But its impact on his ability to fulfill a new rich contract going into a playoff run is kind of humorous given the totality of the season. I'm not walking anything I said about JT back. I've never said to not sign him....if he indeed comes around to wanting to be in Indy at all. If he doesn't want to be here and will never play here....based upon reports/rumors at the time...I'd say don't expect to get much in a trade for him. He changed his mind about wanting to play for Indy (reportedly), and the contract was signed at the same time. I have no problem with a ballhanding potential impact player making $14m. ( Its the nonball handling or non impact players making north of $18m is what I question) JT is a national name because he broke off several long TD runs. Without those, he's just another RB who does well when his oline blocks well, and not so well when it doesn't. I have no idea if he will earn his contract or not (by breaking off runs). Who knows when that happens...or if it will ever happen again. I'm not one of the posters who said to not sign him. Just like I'm not a Levis lover, despite what some want to think. LOL.

If I'm understanding what you are saying. Irsay has said that the Colts cannot compete in signing the most expensive free agents because of the size of the market. Or (and), the Indy market is not desirable to elite free agents because of what it is, (which means Irsay believes all elite free agents think alike and want the same things from a city) If Irsay actually believes the latter, I'd say he should just pack up his things and leave town now, because he's obviously either not a Hoosier at heart or he stereotypes what the elite free agents want out of life (but that the other free agents are okay with Indy because it suits them) I'm not criticizing you or Irsay. Just saying that what you are saying doesn't quite portray Irsay in a nice light, IMO. I'm probably not following.

I don't think so. I assume the topic of Indy being a cultural waste land for elite NFL players came from people outside of Indy. But if Irsay actually thinks the average elite NFL player needs better night clubs to go to than what Indy offers, he's hanging in the wrong circles.

Have they given the reasons behind their conclusions? Or are we to conclude that they think players think Indy is a cultural hick town? Have you considered the possibility that this is just an excuse for them losing battles?

So why would Reich want to trade assets to get Young in the first place? And why would CAR hire Frank if they thought Young was best? Wouldn't they talk about RPO and offensive scheme when they decide to hire a HC and trade up for a QB of their choice? Or just to get a sense of how the HC would run his O? Having to go to Frank and ask him now seems about 9 games and $30m too late.

There seems to be a discussion around surgery. Probably a ligament that's on the cusp of being able to heal with no intervention. At this point, not a whole lot different from what we first heard about AR.

LOL. Its okay. I stubbed my toe once so hard I broke it. I laughed at myself, so I'm okay with laughing at a guy who can't work because he hurt his thumb and still makes millions.

Dislike for him? I think the contract is fine. I never said otherwise. He's a guy who handles the ball frequently and can make plays so $14m isn't out of the question. But there is a theory that RBs get hurt a lot and that any one of them is unreliable. Seems to be holding true...and these have just been sort of stupid minor things....not like getting a knee blown up.

LOL.

If I were to remake the TE room, I'd start with Ogletree as the in-line TE and Mallory as the move TE. And we typically carry 4. Cox and Granson can seek roster competition. Woods needs to show me that he can stay healthy or fix whatever he's got going on off-field (his injury situation seems odd)

And from a FoxNews article on the firing. Panthers team owner David Tepper reportedly urged the team to pick Young over Stroud. It depends upon the definition of "reportedly". The author could be just cutting and pasting somebody else's sloppy reporting.

The financial aspect of small market vs large market is nonsense, IMO. There are more endorsements from local car dealerships in NYC than Indy? So what. Andy Reid and Pat Mahomes are doing commercials for State Farm insurance, and they play for KC. From a financial aspect, I'd say that avoiding a high state income tax rate on your NFL contract would be a greater financial incentive than the income generated by local endorsements.

What destroys a locker room is seeing players getting paid more for not performing any better than the next guy in his spot. Those players have to either play to their level of pay or be held accountable and cut. JMO.

A former DT of the Colts, Ellis Johnson, was a competitive bass fishing tournament contestant. Had the boat, rods and reels, equipment, to be very good and actually turned pro after he retired from the Colts, IIRC. I'd wager that a good portion of NFL players come from small towns/small markets and are not interested in the places the media thinks cool people want to live. Can't speak to Irsay, but he does seem to have some of that trendy coolness take on things so he might in fact think that the lack of FAs is because of the Indy culture lifestyle. Sounds like an excuse though.

For the discussion about who wanted Young....Reich or Tepper...check out WalterFootball's "firing grade" for Reich. (The site is a PITA to load so I'll let y'all find it yourselves). He says "The coaching staff wanted Stroud but Tepper picked Young". WF could be simply spreading the logical inference many have made, but reading his site over the years tells me that he does have a decent level of inside contacts into NFL teams and their scouting world.

Thinking about this a bit. Rhule got hired away from Baylor...not fired. Rhule was not really a free agent coach to be free to sign anywhere. Rhule was fired from CAR, so was sort of a free agent to be hired by any college. I can see Rhule's side where on one hand he was hired away by CAR, so they would pay Baylor's contract, but the other he was fired by CAR, so NEB would not be responsible for CAR contract. CAR would be wrong to blend the salaries as a calculation. I would think that in most situations, the college coach gets hired away by the NFL coach, and not the other direction. I guess Saban moved onto to Alabama, but probably had to resign from MIA to do it. Seems a very lawyerly issue. You may be right. Just pointing out a difference in the two situations.