VocableLoki
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Posts posted by VocableLoki
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22 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:
I like the optimism, but I would say that this team has won in spite of Pagano being the coach, not because of.
I would disagree but if that's your opinion, fine.
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14 minutes ago, deedub75 said:
I fixed it for you.
And missed the point.
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6 minutes ago, deedub75 said:
They've hurt the team longterm. Those playoff wins mean nothing for the present and the future.
Okay but, again, Chuck has done more to help the team by virtue of the success here than to hurt it. Pagano also isn't making personnel decisions so I don't think he is the one hurting the team in the long terms. I would also say our future certainly looks better now than it did at the end of last season.
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3 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:
I know he is a nice guy and I like him to personally... But come on man!
Again, just pointing out what he has accomplished.
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1 hour ago, James Ducheteau said:
We only get to the AFC CG because Luck and Hilton put up and incredible 2nd half against a KC team with out their stud RB or QB. Good coaching had nothing to do with it. Routinely being out coached and having to rely on heroic efforts form your star players to even get back into games has hurt this team's development greatly.
We didn't play Kansas City the year we went to the AFC Championship Game.
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5 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:
They only went 2-14 one season 6 years ago lol it wasn't like this team always been bad
Didn't say they had been; but a lot of the talent that made up the other teams was gone. My point was that he took the helm of a team that was starting over.
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14 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:
Well neither are we until proven otherwise i'm not confident in Grigson and Pagano to get this team back to the playoff's and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
Sure, I just don't think the rest of the division is running away from us.
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Just now, mahagga73 said:
He DOES have an overinflated record because of the division , I gave you the numbers. And your going to tell me without Luck this team isn't 3-13 this year. That's not subjective, that's common sense. It's not all his fault, the GM is much to blame , but he's part of the problem and needs to go. They need a coach that makes a team better.
He went 6-3 without Luck last year so I don't think he is 100% reliant on Luck for his record.
That's not "common sense," that is your opinion. You have no idea how the Colts would perform in a different division or with a different quarterback. It's your subjective opinion.
Here's the thing, the argument you are using can be stretched to most coaches who have good quarterbacks. "Mike McCarthy isn't a good coach because of his division and Aaron Rodgers," "Mike Tomlin isn't a good coach because he gets to play the Browns and has Ben Roethlisberger," etc, etc. Yes Chuck has a good quarterback and yes he is in a poor division. Doesn't make him a bad coach.
I don't really know how good he is, personally. He has won with an incredibly flawed roster, yet he also has struggled to improve the defense and I think struggles with game planning. However, this debate started because you claimed he wasn't a successful coach. Hopefully it is clear that is completely false.
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1 hour ago, mahagga73 said:
He was hired to fix the defense as he was supposed to be a guru or something. Now, this part is not all his fault as nobody knows what say if any he has on personnel, because it varies around the league. But his defense gets worse every year and that's not all the GM. He has an overinflated record because of this division and Andrew Luck.
26 minutes ago, mahagga73 said:You should take your own advice .
The defense has not improved as much as you would want at this point, given that he has spent so much of his career as a coach on that side of the ball. He was not, however, "hired to fix the defense." There wasn't a defense to fix, he was hired to take over a franchise that was completely starting over. If you truly believe he has an overinflated record due to Luck and the division then fine, that's your opinion but it does not make him an unsuccessful coach. You may not think he is a good coach but he is, without question, a successful one.
I also disagree based on him just winning in a poor division. He has beaten several good teams out of division in his career. He has only lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champion (Baltimore or New England) or another very good New England team in the playoffs. With 5 different quarterbacks, 2 different offensive coordinators and an injured Luck he still had a chance to win the division during the last game of the season.
Do I think Pagano has always gotten the most out of the team? No. Do I think that he is a great in-game tactician? No. Do I think that he makes strangely aggressive calls? Yes. But I do think that he deserves respect for what he has accomplished here.
Also: truth is in the facts, not subjective opinions, i.e. "He has an overinflated record because of the division and Andrew Luck."
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1 minute ago, jameszeigler834 said:
Seriously the jags are a competent coach away from competing the titans will be even better next season and the Texans while I agree that their QB situation is a mess that mess beat us twice this season .
I hear the thing on Jacksonville a lot, hard for me to believe a new coach is worth 6-7 games right away.
The Titans may be better next year but who knows? Their team is young, if they develop their players then maybe but they aren't filled with playmakers.
Yes, Houston beat us twice but are they getting better? They are going to have a late first with very little cap room. I don't think they are trending up going into this offseason.
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1 hour ago, Bigbadbill said:
We have Andrew Luck. So what? Luck is not a QB who can carry a team and win a bunch of games all by himself like Peyton Manning used to do. No one quakes in fear about facing Andrew Luck. The sooner we get off of this belief and start building a complete team, the better the Colts will be.
Andrew Luck has been carrying the team to wins for 4/5 years now. I am positive teams don't enjoy playing him either.
For the thread topic: just get some playmakers on defense, allow the offensive line to develop and we will be fine!
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Just now, mahagga73 said:
Pagano is 20-24 outside this garbage division, which is the record that is really relevant because any team with a pulse would have won this division most years, so that's not saying much. So please define successful?
20-24 is not the correct record. Sorry, a 49-31 coach with 2 division titles and three playoff wins in five years is objectively successful. If you want to argue that the team could be more successful, fine but to argue he is not successful is just inaccurate.
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29 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:
The fact that the whole division is improving and unless we have or best offseason in a long time we will be even worst than last season.
Jacksonville isn't improving, Tennessee has a young core but their franchise quarterback is hurt, Houston isn't improving either: a mess at quarterback while their best player will be coming back from a serious injury. We should still expect to win 3-5 division games.
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40 minutes ago, #12. said:
You mean the AFCCG Chuck lost 45-7? That's a fact the apologists conveniently forget to mention. They love to bring up the AFCCG, as if that team was somehow close to a title. They were nowhere close to championship material. They won a weak division, then got lucky drawing Marvin Lewis and the Bengals who have never won a playoff game, followed by an injured Peyton who was overthrowing receivers by 15 yards. During that season, they went 6-0 in the division. Outside the AFC South, they met four division winners - the Broncos, Steelers, Patriots and Cowboys - and lost those four games by a combined 166-85 score.
Okay? Your point was that he has hurt the team more than helped. Clearly his accomplishments show otherwise. It's not being an apologist to point what he has accomplished here. Again, if you want to say the team could accomplish more, fine. Don't behave as though Chuck has been a drag for five years when he took a 2-14 team to three playoffs wins in three years.
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On 1/8/2017 at 0:51 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:
BB is no where near as terrible outside the division as Chuck. You guys are just making up sad excuses now.
26-21 isn't terrible. No one is claiming his record is as good as Belichik, just pointing out that Pagano beating teams he should can't be held against him. Not to mention he's beaten Denver 3x, Green Bay twice, Seattle, etc. It's not an excuse to be accurate with what he has done.
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1 hour ago, #12. said:
"Grigson has had terrible drafts the past few years and has put together one of the most talentless rosters in the NFL. Pagano, meanwhile, has been a mediocre head coach at best and has done more to hurt the team than help it."
Top notch synopsis.
Like take the team to the AFC CG? If you want to argue the team has plateaued then fine. However, stating that he has hurt the team more than helped simply isn't true.
No matter how this ends Pagano's time has been good for the team on the whole.
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41 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:
Nobody is forcing the "handclapper" fanboys to read or comment on these threads..Many Colts fans probably 90% are disgusted and need to vent...I suggest you make an I love and support Pagano thread where you guys can make each other feel better...It's still news until Irsay makes a statement supporting Pagano which hasn't happened yet...He isn't going to fire him unless he can get a big fish..I believe he is still looking as does much of the local media...
Disgusted is a strong word for feelings towards retaining a successful coach. Perhaps if people wanted to actually discuss Pagano's flaws (he has a few) instead of just taking consistent cheap shots then people wouldn't push back hard and instead discuss.
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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:
I'm not looking for anything. I'm just reading the article that was linked. It shows Irsay Grigs and Pags doing a presser, with a date of 1-6-17 and that Irsay has agreed to have them on for one more season. How did this forum miss that presser? I thought the sign was the least newsworthy part of the post.
Picture was from last year's presses I believe.
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18 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:
Well the way I look at it we will be lucky to win a division game next season.
Based on what?
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8 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:
I wish our division was better at the start of his time here so the division wouldn't have padded his record that's the only reason he has a decent record.
All good teams pad their record against weak division opponents. The Patriots have done this for 15 years now. Manning teams did this as well. Chuck has also won plenty of quality games out of division, as mentioned above.
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On 10/4/2016 at 2:17 PM, azcolt said:
I know O'Brien's situation wasn't nearly as good at Penn State but he quickly left Joe Pa U for an NFL team that didn't have the prospect of Andrew as his qb for a decade or more. The Colts job would surely be much more appealing solely due to Andrew, espcially given Harbaugh's history with Andrew. I admit it seems unlikely, but I hope Irsay at least takes a shot at Harbaugh, if he hasn't already done so. The guy seems to have an enormous ego and getting run out of San Francisco surely left some open wounds that coaching in the Big Ten won't heal.
Penn State was in a very dire situation with O'Brian. He left when his stock would have been highest. Michigan is a wonderful job and Jim is just starting what he could accomplish while there.
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3 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:
franchise
H
3 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:The first three seasons under Andrew Luck the Colts were 33-15 with 2 AFC South Titles, 3 playoff berths and an AFC Championship game appearance.
The past two seasons with Andrew Luck under center the Colts are 10-12.
We have gone from a team that won 68% of it's regular season games in it's first 3 seasons to won that has only won 45% of it's regular season games the past 2 seasons (and that is counting only the games that Andrew Luck has actually played.)
We are a team that has clearly regressed with our franchise QB under center. There is reason to believe this franchise is trending in the wrong direction.
2015 is hardly a good measurement for how Luck is progressing with the team. It's pretty clear he was hurt from the beginning and we went with a Super Bowl or Bust approach with a roster that was more deeply flawed than anyone realized. This year we paid for that approach but Andrew had a great season.
I just see a team that needs to add defensive talent. We aren't going a franchise going downhill fast.
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15 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:
I like Chappel but he doesn't really break news just reports what others have broken. I think the Star losing Chappel, Kravitz and Phil B has really taken a step backwards. Kravitz and Phil B. had an ax to grind with Polian but unless talking about Polian kept that out of things while Chappel did what a beat writer was supposed to do just report news.
The new guard at the Star seems to have an ax to grind with the Colts and seems to pull for them to fail. Add in Wells who clearly still wishes he was covering basketball and Bruno for 1070 and you have guys who seem to be more interested in pushing the agenda that the Colts can do no right. I try to avoid them.
JMV just tells you what he thinks and what he hears is going on and leaves his personal opinion out of it in terms of the facts that he knows. Big Joe is also pretty good but he sees things through horse shoe colored glasses although no one has been harder on the Colts this week than him. Grady is a joke who also just wants to talk basketball and seems to resent the Colts because they prevent him from doing that. Dakich is just a jerk and I stopped paying attention to him long ago and have been better off for it. I haven't really paid much attention to Sterling. That leaves Jake and Derick on WNDE. Jake is a local guy who has interesting takes at times but you have to get to them by going through so much strange humor, Derick is an east coast kid covering Indy sports and really doesn't get Indiana sports as a whole. Still as sports shows go they are goofy but their Colts takes are normally right but they don't break news like JMV does.
Didn't ever listen to Dakich but heard some sound bites throughout this season. Just seems to throw controversial stuff around consistently to grab attention for his own radio show's benefit.
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3 hours ago, hoosierguy1976 said:
What if this leak was started by Pagano's people? Put this info out there and try to force Irsay's hand to publicly say one way or the other whether he's coming back. One other thing, what if Saban is interested, but does not want any info out there to distract his Alabama team? No better way to take the attention off of Saban this week if word gets out Irsay supports Pagano. I think there's still more to come...
It doesn't seem like something Pagano would do. He seems pretty honest with how he talks about job security, what with the "they can't eat you" speech. The Sabah stuff seems plausible, just have to wait...
Not everyone in indy is fine with chuck and grigs staying
in Colts Football
Posted
It means he took a team to an AFC Championship game.
Once again, the poster I was responding to claimed that Pagano was an unsuccessful coach. Going to the AFC Championship game is successful, no matter the circumstances.