[Tennessee (-5) at Jacksonville (12-24-16)]

Bortles is playing really well and Mariota is very inconsistent thus far. We may have a chance...

[Who is the 2016 MVP?]

10 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

The Colts rely on luck more then any other team 

Granted, specifically referring to the candidates in this thread. 

[Chuck Pagano complaints (merge)]

On 12/19/2016 at 9:11 AM, coltsva said:

Listening to Pagano, it seems like he still doesn't get it. I find it pretty lame that after the game Pagano says how proud he is of this team and how they responded with the season on the line in a must win game. Really Chuck? Last week was the must win game. This week was the "too little too late" game, or the "let's see if we can save my job" game.

 

Inconsistency from week to week is a coaching problem, not a personnel problem. I think the GM is learning and improving. Not seeing that from the coach.

 

 

Inconsistency is definitely a personnel problem and a coaching problem. We don't have good depth and we have glaring weaknesses. In some games these get exposed and no amount of coaching is going to cover these up. Pittsburgh was a personnel problem, Kansas City was a personnel problem, etc. 

 

Both of our coordinators are in their first years (full year in Chud's case), they need some time to get the correct personnel to run their schemes. Take away Vontae Davis (which has happened this year) and Monachino is essentially working with the talent defensively of an expansion team (some young players but a lot of aging, average players) and I honestly don't know how he is supposed to make it work. 

 

I also don't understand your complaint. Players easily could have not shown up for the Minnesota game, clearly the players respect Pagano enough to play hard for him, that's still a sign of good coaching and something Pagano should be proud of.

 

Overall this is a problem where clearly the personnel is not strong enough and the coaching not clever enough, to lay it all on coaching is wrong. 

[Who is the 2016 MVP?]

I don't think any team relies on their QB more than the Falcons do Ryan. His numbers aren't just better but better by a pretty big margin. He plays on a team with a bad defense (in the upper 20's in most categories) that requires him to play really well for them to win. Take Ryan away and that team probably doesn't make the playoffs.

 

I think it could be argued that Zeke plays with an offensive line good enough to give any good running back a great season. He is having a fantastic year but taking "most valuable" literally would suggest Ryan is a little moreso than Elliot. I would say Ryan at this point and can't understand why he is behind Elliot/Brady and Carr in the latest rankings via ESPN. 

[Enough talent and scheme to beat the Raiders?]

I think it's definitely within reason to think we can beat the Raiders. They have a bunch of talented players at key positions but they lack real convincing wins against good teams and seem a little streaky. Derek Carr puts up good numbers but has a really pedestrian QBR (16th in the league I think?). Not impossible. The bigger problem is Jacksonville being able to upend Tennessee. 

[Prospective head coaching candidates [Merge]]

32 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't know all that much about the Bucs, but my understanding is they didn't build the team well.  While he had some good picks here and there with guys like Ruud and Cadillac Williams, the Bucs drafted just one Pro Bowler from 2003 to 2007.  One Pro Bowl player in 5 years worth of draft picks is no way to build a team.

 

Let the Bucs fans explain it, since they'll do a better job of it than me

http://www.bucsnation.com/2009/9/6/1012083/why-jon-gruden-didnt-work-out-in

 

In Oakland, Gruden took a 4-12 team to 12-4 in 3 years.  His offensive system is very QB-centric.  You need an intelligent and veteran QB to make it work; that's why Rich Gannon was such a good fit.  To me, Luck is a perfect fit for him.  It's not just about getting a guy who is fiery; it's about finding a guy who can get the most out of our elite talent at QB.  Some postulate that the reason why we've had the offenses with so many deep routes is because that's the type of offense Pagano prefers, which is why he has hired the OCs he has.  I think Gruden comes with a better balance of short, medium, and deep route combinations.

 

Defensively, it would depend on who he hires as his DC.  I imagine it would be a situation where he hires a good DC and lets the DC take care of the defensive stuff while he focuses on the offense.

Interesting read and yes I do think Gruden was a good offensive mind when he coached, however, his QB coaching camps and work on MNF are not quite enough to convince me that he is ready to jump in and install his offense, though maybe "Y Banana Spider" will rule the day here.

 

The article does confirm my main concerns, specifically that Gruden had a great defensive coordinator in Kiffin and that he seemed to aggressively pursue short-term free agents. That's not what we need, we need to continue to stockpile some young talent. Hopefully the Minnie game shows that maybe some of our younger linemen will continue to improve and we can be stable in 3/4 years. Hopefully Gruden's broadcasting/ESPN draft work has helped him stay up to date in evaluating young talent. 

 

Whoever comes in as a coach/coordinators has to be a long-term solution. We are looking at potentially the fourth offensive coordinator of Luck's career and the third defensive in as many years, assuming everyone leaves if Pagano is fired. 

[Prospective head coaching candidates [Merge]]

On 12/21/2016 at 1:44 PM, 21isSuperman said:

As one of the more vocal supporters of Gruden, I'll respond with my thoughts.  I don't have anything for or against Gruden defensively.  I'd expect he would hire a DC and stay mostly out of the defensive stuff.  He'd give the DC full control. 

 

1) Gruden has Super Bowl experience.  You can say he took Dungy's team to the Super Bowl, which is an inherently flawed argument (if it was Dungy's team, why didn't Dungy take them there?), but he played a big role in helping Tampa beat Philly and a big role in game planning for the Super Bowl against Oakland

 

2) Gruden and Luck both know the WCO very well.  They could finish each other's sentences (watch the QB Camp with Luck and they do finish each other's sentences at some points).  Gruden would give us a head coach who is on the exact same page as Luck.  This wouldn't be a drastic change in offensive systems for Luck since he has so much experience from his time at Stanford.  The main reason Gruden hasn't ever had a solid franchise QB is because his offensive system is very verbose.  That is difficult and intimidating for younger players, but a guy like Luck has the intelligence and familiarity with the system to process it all.

 

3) With Gruden calling the plays and controlling the offense, changes in OC wouldn't hurt us as much.  We wouldn't require Luck to learn a new offensive system every year.  Nor would we have situations like we did last year where Chud calls a play to another coach and that coach translates it to Luck.  It would stabilize our offense for the next several years

 

4) Gruden can work with Luck to improve some of the other things in his game.  Not only would the play calling almost certainly change and there would be more short passes - which has a whole host of benefits - but he can work with Luck to help him throw the quick/short routes more often instead of always looking for the deep pass.  He can help Luck get rid of the ball quicker, which is something many would like to see

 

4) Gruden's coaching style will help keep players more accountable than Pagano.  Gruden is a no-nonsense type of coach.  We need more accountability on the sidelines, which we aren't seeing with this staff.

I agree that Gruden will be motivational and fiery in the short term and probably be very good for our team. Agreed that having a consistent offensive philosophy would be great, just not sure what Gruden's would be after not coaching nearly eight years. 

 

My point was more along the lines that Gruden's Oakland teams improved a lot in a short time frame and his offense really worked for a little while. It's hard to tell how things would have gone going forward, given Oakland fell apart two years after he left. I don't think it's flawed to point out that those Tampa teams (in terms of personnel and even defensive philosophy) were built and ready for him when he arrived. His Tampa teams didn't improve over the time he had, obviously starting with a Super Bowl victory sets the bar high but his career ended with very average to bad results after that Super Bowl. He even had two losing seasons immediately after winning in 02. 

 

I think he's great motivation wise but so is Pagano. My overall point is I am wary of another coach who is great with short-term motivation/winning but struggles with building for longer success. 

 

It also feels like we've heard for years that the offense will change with Luck getting the ball out quicker, etc, that was all the noise I heard when Pep was hired at least, but it never comes to fruition. Even when we come out with that kind of plan it doesn't always work as Luck really excels with deeper routes, he just doesn't have time to pull that off. 

 

I'm more or less just not convinced that Gruden will change a whole lot,  a little more yelling and intensity but we need someone who can rebuild our defense and fine-tune our offense (particularly the line), I'm not sure if Gruden is the ideal candidate. Maybe I will be proven wrong but for now I am cautious if his hire.   

[Prospective head coaching candidates [Merge]]

Jon Gruden is interesting but is being more highly rated in hindsight. He won a Super Bowl in 2002 and then only made the playoffs two more times in Tampa, with his teams never being serious contenders post-championship.

 

His teams did well offensively in Oakland but were "meh" to bad in Tampa. Not totally convinced he would be the best possible coach for Luck. 

 

Defensively, he inherited one of the best units since '00 that had been built by Dungy/Kiffin, he will have to work to build a defense essentially from scratch here (how many long-term defensive starters are currently on the roster? Not many). 

 

I don't understand the love for Cowher. He's been out for so long and the Colts re not built the way his Steelers teams were at all. He had a long time with that franchise but the Colts are looking for more of an immediate spark as Luck enters the prime of his career. 

 

Overall I am open to Gruden and not confident in Cowher at all. Harbaugh would be great but it would be incredibly surprising if he left Michigan, same goes for Meyer/Saban.

 

McDaniels/Shanahan make a lot of sense but would still need to find a good coordinator to pair with them in order to build the defense up again. Maximizing Luck is important but our defense needs a lot of work right now, really old and devoid of talent. It's going to take someone with a good drafting eye to get that unit back together.