Flash7
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Let's take a look at the top five QBs under 25.
5. Russell Wilson
4. Cam Newton
3. Collin Kaepernick
2. Robert Griffin III
1. Andrew Luck
Of those five QBs, who is the traditional drop back passer?
Answer: Andrew Luck
Of those five QBs, who runs the zone read option?
Answer: Qbs #2 through 5.
I would argue that Luck was the #1 QB, and the zone read was the #2 QB. If you compare what Luck did this past year to QBs in any other year as traditional drop back passers-- prior to the influx of the zone read into the NFL-- you would think it's phenomenal. It's clear to me that the zone read has entered the NFL and has caused defenses to be hesitant, leading to much easer decisions and throws by the QB. This is not a knock against the other QBs, rather, my opinion that the other QBs were made to look much better by the simplicity of this offensive system. Their recent numbers are a clear outlier compared to the performance of all of the past QBs who have entered the NFL, mostly as traditional drop back passers.
Here's an article on teams that use the zone read, and how often. Carolina, Washington, Seattle, and San Francisco are at the top.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/95574/run-oriented-qbs-and-nfc-west-mythology
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Now, before any Bill Polian admirers claim that I am being unfair to Bill & state that our salary cap was strapped for cash, I will propose a solution to this fiscal dilemma: You bring in your highest paid players for a pow wow & say look we all wanna win another ring right? Peyton's not getting any younger & we need a solid backup QB. In an effort to secure one, may I please ask if any of you are opening to restructuring your contracts to land a quality back up in INDY? This is what Bill Polian should have done if cash flow was an issue IMHO.
I see your point, Southwest, but that would be a tough sell.
"Hey guys, in order to win another ring, we need a solid back-up QB."
Back up QBs aren't really know for winning rings. Just thought I'd mention that I get your point, but it would be hard for anyone to shell out their money for a back-up, especially since they've only won 1 with Manning.
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Wow, that's an exciting highlight video!
I think I'll watch Kent State this year just to watch this kid run.
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Saw this and thought it was funny....
Taking the kick out of kicker with my jedi levitation skills.
Pat- "Not only can I make this ball float in the air, but I can make my left arm disappear!
Everyone- Uhhh...Pat, we can still see your left arm.
Pat- Really???! The ball's freaking floating in the air and you're worried about still being able to see my left arm?
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That was Butler who had the picks vs the Jags Part 2. Vaughn tried to jump the route and got beat on a Stop N Go. The game Vaughn fell over the goaline was vs the Titans @ LOS
Yep, you're right. It was against Locker to start the second half. I stand corrected.
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Didn't Vaughn get a pick in one of the games last year and then he fell backwards accross the goal line? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Yes, the second game against the Jags...arguably his best game.
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No, I do not think that Andrew Luck will be ranked above Robert Griffin in the Top100 rankings for the following reasons:
1. The rankings are based on polling from the players in the NFL. They do not have time to investigate every player and how well they've performed. They will base their opinion from what they've seen in games, ESPN, and what they've heard. That's hardly a definitive way to judge someone's performance throughout an entire season.
2. It's based on NFL players and their perceptions, and the style of play of Robert Griffin will get more attention and notice than Luck's.
3. The pistol, read-option became a household name due to RGIII and how well he did in that offense. He made it deadly in the NFL and will get recognized for it. Others copied it due to RGIII's success with it.
4. Stats. RGIII had better traditional stats than Luck.
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Yeah I know that stats don't tell the whole story, I actually got into a long discussion about the subject with a poster on here just a couple of weeks ago. But sometimes it's all they have to show us just how efficient a player really is. I do agree that the magic or "clutch" moments don't show up on the stat sheet and those are indeed some of the best moments in football.
As far as Ben and his 4th year goes I nearly typed rookie, thought about it, and then caught myself lol. I was like hold on...Arians wasn't in Pittsburgh in 2004! Lol. I just threw that in there to show that Ben actually put up slightly better numbers (but less yards) than A12 did in his first year with the same O and coordinator.
Quiz, I understand that it's somewhat relevant to compare Ben's and Luck's stats because they both played under Arians. The difference is that when Ben played under Arians, the Steelers were a winning organization with so much talent-- good receiving corps, a running game, and terrific defense. Much of that Luck did not have this year. Luck's stats do not compare to Ben's and neither do the 2012 Colts to the teams that Ben played on, yet, with Luck the Colts had a tremendous season. No matter what the stats say, as Colts fans, we will always know that Luck endured so much more than Big Ben had to--that wasn't self inflicted.
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I think you're forgetting that Coby had 3-4 passes right in his hands.... and dropped them. Including one on the very first play of the playoff game with Baltimore. Coby didn't do Andrew any favors on those plays.
But what Coby suffered through is actually very common for rookie wide receivers. I'm expecting Fleener to play much more like the player he was his last 3 years at Stanford than he was last year. Much, much better.
I'll be shocked and disappointed if he doesn't.....
No, not forgetting about those drops. I remember yelling at my TV, lol.
Our receivers had many gut wrenching drops at critical times last year, including Fleener. But of all of our receivers, he seemed to be the one to receive the worste of Luck's passes is all I was trying to point out-- and I could be entirely wrong. I just found it odd that it would be Fleener, his favorite target in college.
It has been mentioned that Fleener ran routes that entirely did not suite his style of Play (10- yard outs almost entirely) and that could have contributed to the lack of connection.
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Coby Fleener didn't play up to his potential either. I hope that he has a better season this year.
I can see why some fans may feel this way, especially in light of the way that Dwayne Allen played for us. However, I have gone back and watched all of the games, over and over again, on NFL Game Rewind. I noticed that Fleener was the recipient of so many of Luck's bad throws. It was really odd.
Whenever Luck badly overthrew someone, I would say, "I bet he was throwing to Fleener" and I was right more often than not. For some odd reason, Luck just did not throw well to Fleener, the entire season. I asked myself if I was being biased and went back and reviewed the throws to Fleener. Let's just say that Luck did not do him any favors this past season.
If someone else would like to take a more objective look at this, I would be happy to hear if I'm being biased or it's truly an odd coincidence.
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There's a problem with comparing QBs in general, especially with such limited data. We've only seen Luck in 1 season and Kaepernick in a hand full of games, which is not enough to go on. Also, you would have to consider the talent levels on their respective team, the defenses that they've faced, the offensive systems that they run, etc...
What we can say is that Alex Smith had a 104 passer rating before obtaining a concussion and then subsequently being benched. And that Kaepernick finished the season with a 98.8 passer rating. So Alex Smith was actually doing better in this system. It also would make me think that in no way do NFL fans consider Alex Smith to be anything other than a game manager, and a "play it safe" (Captain check down) type of QB, but statistically performed better than Kaepernick. I would then ask myself, how would Luck have done in that system, some of which he's very used to from his time at Stanford.
Luck played on a team that previously went 2-14, has been completely revamped, filled with rookies in supporting roles and led them to an 11-5 record. Arian's offense is a vertical attacking offense, and statistically, Luck threw passes of 20+ yards better than Roethlesberger had in the same offense, (I can't find the stats now, but I was shocked reading this because Roethlisberger is a 2-time superbowl winning QB and Luck outperformed him in this regard). So, how would Kaepernick have done in this type of offense?
The truth is that we will never really know how one QB would fair in the other's shoes. We can only go by what we've seen and up until this point, it may not be enough to form a solid conclusion. I would think; however, that if we were to start the league all over again and had a re-draft, Luck would be chosen before Kaepernick. Whether that would be the right choice or not, it would be the safer bet.
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I'm good with Ballard and Brown and if K. Williams shows that he can be an asset, I think we'll be alright at RB. I'm not that big on Carter. If he was with any other team, we wouldn't think twice about him. He's JAG.
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If you would compare our defense to others in the league, we appear to be average. We don't seem to have anyone really special. I think that Bethea, Mathis, Davis, and Landry are really good players, but not elite at their positions. (Davis is not elite- but has potential).
We're just excited because this year's defense appears to be the best defense that we've had in a long, long time, and for that reason, some may be overreacting a little by thinking we could be a top 10 defense. Like many posters have stated, I think we're right around the middle, 15th-16th in overall defense in the league.
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I think that Mark Sanchez gets a lot of heat for being a bad QB, but even more so because he's in NY with a loudmouth coach who only cares about his defense. In my opinion, Sanchez is not a good QB, but he's no where near as bad as some people make him out to be. No QB would play well without any offensive weapons. Since Sanchez has been there, they've shipped out all of his offensive weapons and have surrounded him with poor offensive talent.
I think I agree with Golic. He should play out his contract with the Jets and find another team next year. If David Carr can still find opportunities in this league, then so can Sanchez.
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Didn't he almost get to 1,000 yards with Painter as his QB? If so, then I see 1,000 yards for Wayne this year with Luck, again.
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Well... I guess we have high hopes for K. Williams as a kick returner. I liked D. Karim.
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I think that Wayne will work hard to keep himself in shape and to learn another new offense this year. I also think that he will still be Luck's favorite target, so he'll have a chance at 1,000 yards.
Wayne was seeing a lot of double teams last year and he was still able to get the ball. I think that with the emergence of other guys on offense, (Hilton, DHB, Allen, Fleener, checkdowns to the RB) Wayne might be double teamed less, giving him opportunities to make plays.
But his play will eventually start to decrease, as does everybody's when father time catches up with them.
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No he doesn't, he is consistently ripping off big gains. Watch him against Toledo, that just wasn't fair
So, he doesn't fall short in comparison to DeAnthony Thomas? I get that one will probably be drafted at the top of next years draft and Williams was a late round draft pick this year, so we're comparing two guys who necessarily shouldn't be compared to one another, but DeAnthony Thomas is way more of a playmaker, and has done it against better competition.
I'm not saying that Williams isn't a good player, but unfortunately, he's not what we all "want" him to be-- the next Sproles-- as he's consistently being compared to. I think he'll be a good special teams player and possibly used on third downs, but I think we're better served keeping Ballard in on third downs.
Also, the youtube video I posted wasn't a bad game for Williams. He had a very good TD off of a screen play.
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I think he's small and shifty and he catches well out of the backfield. He has a great highlight reel, but watching him play an entire game, you can see that he's not as dynamic as we all would like him to be. We hope that he'll be a playmaker like DeAnthony Thomas is for Oregon, but he falls short... way short.
He may work out best in the return game.
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From what I've heard, the Patriots are thinking about trading Ryan Mallett. So, is it possible that they trade him, then Brady gets hurt and the team goes 2-14 behind a bad QB and ends up drafting Clowney? It could be possible. Would it be a conspiracy? Probably not because Clowney doesn't play QB. That's the only difference.
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You are scared that the people that support their families by making these decisions may have made a mistake? Or you are afraid that the people who get paid to determine weather C Vaughn should or shouldnt be on the team are wrong?
Both. I'm no GM, but after watching the Colts play last year I thought that the D-line, pass rush and defensive backs at times were our weakness. We've addressed our pass rush with Walden and Werner, possibly Sidbury, and our D-line with the addition of Jean-Francois, Franklin, and hopefully Chapman and McKinney coming back. We lost Powers who was often injured and replaced him with another often injured CB in Toler. So in my opinion, we haven't properly addressed this area of weakness. I'm glad we added Landry and Boyett at the safety positions, but I feel that we haven't done enough to address the CB position.
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No, they're not that dangerous. I was offered free tickets by a friend who's an exec for the Niners. He has seats in the Niner's suite, so I'll be going to the game with him but rooting for the Colts to win, quietly of course :disco: .
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I'm going to the Niner's game, but will probably sit in the Niner's suite. I've already reserved tickets for this game, so I'll watch quietly, but will be rooting like crazy on the inside.
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This signing has me scared the most, even more than the Walden signing. Toler is the player that we are relying on to keep Vaughn off of the field, much like we relied on Powers last year.
I am afraid that Toler-- much like Powers-- has been labled as injury proned. I hope I'm entirely wrong, but I'm very scared about this.
Luck Ranked #1 QB under the age of 25
in Colts Football
Posted
I stated that their recent numbers are a clear outlier compared to the performance of all of the past QBs who have entered the NFL, mostly as traditional drop back passers. The four mentioned and especially RGIII, Wilson, and Kaepernick have passer ratings at or very near 100, which is absurd for a first year player.
I did not say that they would not be anything special. I did imply that they too would have faced the same type of adversity as other QBs who have entered the league previously. That's a fair assessment.