da_pats_troll
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Posts posted by da_pats_troll
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College is a lot different than the NFL. He still fumbled 5 times in 2 years afterwards. Either way he is one of six players who as a group hold the ball better twice as much as members of the Patriots.
The over all stats are flawed. See my earlier post and let us know what you think.
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I read them stats too. Also, Benjarvus Green Ellis fumbled 0 times in 4 or 5 years with the Pats and 5 in less than 2 years with the Bengals. Somethings fishy about all of this. Would the Pats still have beat the Colts? Yes probably but why bend the rules? Rules are rules regardless you should be punished if you break them. It doesn't matter if you break a major rule or a minor rule, you should be punished. I hope the NFL punishes them. If they don't I am going to begin to believe that the NFL really is corrupt and I hate to say that.
He had 959 touches in college...0 fumbles. His first fumble with the Bengals was his first fumble in his college and pro career.
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its stats, and stats can be manipulated to show what you want to show.
http://drewfustin.com/2015/01/27/patriots-fumble-comments/
refutes the "analysis" quite well.
You can throw out games played indoors, I am fine with that. It makes a ton of sense (although something interesting I found: fumble rates were actually higher indoors than outdoors -- go figure!). But please, the extra work must be done to preserve the games played by dome teams outdoors. I cannot stress this enough: there is no reason to remove dome teams from this analysis, there is only reason to remove games played indoors. There are a few reasons -
Blunt is trolling the forums from Arizona.
Impressive.
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Except the dummy lost his ring to Putin !
I forgot about that!! I had a great laugh when that happened.
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Kraft cleverly moved the press off Belichick and Brady with his ramblings, and changed the press coverage. He wants to get through the Super Bowl, and then it will probably be swept under the rug. These guys are all good at what they do.
Cheaters, liars...but you dont usually become a billionaire by being stooopid.
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That would be great with all of us. They would be more deserving.
Which head coach would they have to employ? The one from the game, or the one that they just hired?
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You have to give it to the Patriots:
First 11 out of their 12 balls are found under inflated versus zero for the Colts.
This is the second scandal after spygate which they were guilty of.
1st Press Conference : Brady and Belichick stammering they know nothing about anything.
Next Press Conference: Suddenly Belichick is an expert on PSI and ball deflation after knowing nothing allegedly.
Next Press Conference: Brady also know nothing and his feelings are hurt.
Next: Belligerent NE Press start spreading rumors about Harbaugh, Pagano, Irsay , being snitches , to excuse Patriot wrong doing.
Next: A more agitated Belichick refuses to answer any more questions on the subject.
Next: A ball boy is dragged out of the woodwork as a scape goat.
Next : Old man Kraft throws the NFL under the bus, and has the audacity to ask them to prove it, after his team had deflated footballs.
Next: Old Man Kraft has the gall to demand an apology, when he is responsible that the NFL rules are carried out for his team. This is his second failure.
Next : Patriot fans look in vein for other cheating scandals when other teams just have PED, or other personal issues, like the Patriots or Red Sox have. The other teams aren't cheating on an institutional basis.
Next: Patriot fans say other fans are jealous of their success. No, we just want them to follow the rule book like Tommy told us to do.
What's next ?
I am seriously waiting for the alien angle. Its coming, just a matter of when.
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It way too late to play another game. Send the last team that beat them.
The Bills.
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I missed your math, but I assume you and offensivelyPC used Amonton's Law of Pressure-Temperature, converted pressure to absolute (likely adding in 14.7) then converting to Kilopascals and using converting F temp to degrees Kelvin.
P2 = (P1 / T1 ) × T2 179.9 kpa = (187.5 kpa / 294 K) × 282 K 1.2 psi = 26 psi -14.7 psi
whereby a ball that was set in a 70 degree F room and brought out to the 48 degree outdoor temps could lose about 1.2 psi.
But they didn't measure them in 48 degree air did they? Did they not bring them back inside? How long does it take for them to regain the room temp pressure? and 1.2 psi would make Colts balls (even if at ragged edge max of 13.5 psi pre game) @ 12.3 psi, which is also under inflated. We also do not know what kind of equipment is mandated by the league to inflate and measure, and what equipment the Patriots supplied to the NFL officials to perform those duties. But I feel if the pressure rules and their setting and guarding of the balls that important, that they absolutely must be, or henceforth start using this item-
Accurate auto temperature compensation from 0 - 50 C , accuracy to 0.04% !! No more DeflateGate. Get them now NFL!! And have guards deliver balls from the guarded officials locker room to the teams sidelines 5 minutes before kickoff, and have NFL cameras focused on them at all times thereafter throughout the game.
If the rule is that important, then measures to ensure it should be as well, IMHO.
Your numbers agree exactly with the ones we did.
You're correct, we dont know where/when the second measurement was taken, and what it was measured with. The original discussion was just to prove that temperature alone could account for a bigger drop then alot of people would believe.
If they did not use a temperature compensating gauge, how long the balls were allowed to sit and warm back up is a very crucial piece of information.
One observation, if they did not use a compensating gauge, and did the measurements cold, the colts balls at best would of been @ 12.3 psi as you noted. If the gauge's accuracy is +- .2 psi, that's another kettle of fish that will make the whole matter even worse.
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How about the Ravens the week before?
This isn't about beating the Colts in the AFCCG. It's about using tactics that give them an advantage, whether it is needed or not. It is speculated they have been doing this awhile, and a lot. Possibly since the beginning of 2007 season, judging by team fumbling data. What about all of the other teams that lost skin of their teeth close?
It was a low of 23 that nite. The balls would of been flat
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I'm not going back threw this whole thread to find that post. Did you use psi or did you convert that to pascal?
psia. Since it a proportional formula, conversion to pascal is not needed. They are both measure of mass per area. If you do convert, and then convert back to psia you get the same outcome.
No need to hunt.
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you understand you can't use fahrenheit or celsius in that equation right?
And if you had looked @ the post with the math in it, you would realize I didn't use those.
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you're assuming the colts balls were at the max pressure, and they still dropped below allowable psi. What if they were also 12.5 pregame?
There are 2 things that could happen. One is reasonable, and one requires a tin hat.
The reasonable one is that the colts balls were @ 13.5 and deflated to just below 12.5
The tin hat is..they too were @ 12.5 and also deflated....(yes, I know what the nfl said...thats why this one is a "tin hat" )
I know what your trying to say, and you cant argue physics. Air pressure goes down in a ball when temperature does. If the Colts balls were below 13.5 psi, then they would of been below 12.3 psi at half time.
I dont know why you are fighting this. This is not my speculation, or me making up numbers, its stuff that's been taught in high schools and university's for years. Boyle's Law, which the other gas laws are based on, was published in 1662. Gay-Lussac's law, which is the one that applies here, was published in 1809.
Thats how long this science has been around.
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The problem is the league already has a penalty set for tampering with footballs. It's a 25k fine.
Actually, its worded, "but not limited to". So it can be more.
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Where does it say the Colts footballs lost pressure? I have not seen any of the data from either side, only that it was reported that the 11 of the 12 footballs the Patriots use in the first half were more that 2psi under-inflated and that the 12th football was still less than 12.5psi. I would like to see the data on the Patriots and Colts footballs when they were initially tested before the game, at half time and since they switched out the Patriots footballs at halftime, what was the psi data after the game. Also, even if one was to accept the point of the Colts footballs were at the upper limit, how was it that the Patriots footballs lost over 2psi but the Colts footballs lost at most 1psi?
That's part of the problem. I dont think the league has the numbers for the starting psi's. They are to be tested, but we dont know if those #'s are logged. Gas laws say they lost pressure, that fact is inescapable.
The point of the discussion that OffensivlyPC and I had was to see what pressures balls would drop to based on what we do know. It shows that balls that were legal at the start of the game would be at least 1.1 to 0.2 psi below the lowest allowable (12.5) psi with the reported game time temperature by half time.
With the 2 psi report being changed to "closer to 1" as was "leaked" later, and up to 1.1 psi can be accounted by the change in temperature..well, gives us lots to banter back and forth
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can i get a link to what the colts balls were at during the pregame inspection?
we don't have that info. Only that they met the spec between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. a ball @ 13.5 psi would drop to 12.3 psi under the same conditions. Not exactly in the spec, but within the margin of error that they could be said to be in compliance.
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Didn't you know? There was an atmospheric inversion that occurred at Gillette stadium during the game that resulted in completely different conditions on the Colts sideline. That is why none of the Colts footballs were found to have lost air pressure.
Where does it say they never lost pressure? They were still "compliant", since its a range, they can still lose pressure and be compliant.
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apparently the colts balls don't obey the laws of thermodynamics
Sure they do. If you had bothered to look @ the math, you would of seen.
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Just too much we don't know at this point in time.
1) The question Goff asks..."As long as the retesting was done in the same environmental conditions as the referee's initial pre-game test, the most probable way for the pressure to be lower, assuming no leaks due to tears, is for air to have been let out.
2) What air (inside or outside) did they use at half time to bring the balls back to 12.5. Maybe outside and that would explain why the balls were OK when tested at the game's end ?
3) How much were the balls under at half time.
4) How much of this is due to past complaints of this .
5) Could the rubbing of the ball actually raise the PSI a pound ?
I agree wholeheartedly. There are lots of variables that we do not know.
What I dont understand is some ppl dont even get the concept of pressure drops due to temperature drops. If the balls do not obey the laws of thermodynamics, we might as well believe they dont obey the laws of gravity also
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forgive me if i don't buy your math. I'll go with the experts
Feel free to point out any errors in it.
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other than the fact many scientist have said a temperature difference of 26 degrees isn't enough for it to drop even 1 psi in an hour and a half.
OffensivlyPC and I did the math earlier in the thread. Going from 72 to 50 is a 1.1 PSI drop.
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I'm quite sure the manufacture of the balls understood the question very well. If you think the wilson corporation isn't on top of this situation you are crazy.
and I am quite sure that a basic law of physics is correct.
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actually, it is debatable. The manufacturer of the balls says otherwise
No, its not. its high school physics.
The manufacturer was saying the balls would stay inflated for 2 years. That's true. They don't leak. Its a fine distinction, and I don't think he fully understood the question.
Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)
in NFL General
Posted
I was talking about the overall subject of this post. Sorry I didnt make that clearer. The Sharpfootball numbers threw out all dome teams numbers before doing the numbers. They should of thrown out all dome games, not teams.
The only fact is numbers can be made to say what you want to say.