Xfiles
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Pretty interesting results so far!! Keep voting!
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The colts run the ball, duhhh. Also, if there are 8 guys in coverage, then there is not any running room down the field for quarterbacks. They mostly rely on man coverage to run the ball. I thought you knew that? Yeah... maybe not.
This statement showed me there is no point in arguing with you anymore. When Peyton sees 8 dropped in coverage, he audibles to a run for the Running backs because he can NOT run. If Luck sees 8 drop and no one is open, that is a perfect time for him to take off. Also, you can have 8 drop AND man coverage at the same time. Its called Man under zone. You are misinformed and your dislike of Luck is causing you to not see clearly.
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Exactlly! Which means trading the Luck pick, because Peyton isn't going anywhere if he is 100 percent healthy!
Fixed that for you. ;)
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Where does it say I agreed with sat for any amount of time. Interestingly it doesn't say that!
"Seriously people come on. Please name me 1 number 1 overall player that sat for any amount of time. All im asking for is 1. Its not going to happen. We are either gonna draft luck and trade peyton(please god, NO) or we are gonna trade this pick for a kings ransom. Look at Andy Dalton. He's a 2nd round pick. Thats right 2nd rounder. And he has started since DAY 1. Thats how the h3LL i know. The most hyped QB since probably the modern day draft and you people honestly think he is gonna sit for any amount of time SMH."
Thats the whole quote, I could have agreed with any one part of that and said +1.
Dalton wasnt supposed to start from Day one, they had no choice when Carson Palmer holds the team hostage. Not an example at all there.
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So I was having a conversation in another thread about Defensive Ends, and it really got me thinking, the Colts need improvements on the Defensive Line there’s no doubt about it. I think Freeney and Mathis could be dealt for some quality draft picks, Detroit, Cleveland, and even Minnesota would be interested in bringing in an elite pass rusher! With these picks the Colts could address the weak areas on the team, and go get two young defensive ends like Smith from Missouri and Oakfur from Texas, who could start from day one. Here me out, these two both have excellent potential as pass rushers, and they also play the run well! They are young versions of Peppers and Tuck and for the money Freeney is being paid and Mathis will want, they need to play every down of the game. These two young ends could come in and start and be in a rotation with a Hughes and Anderson, or another combination and that would be fine because they wouldn’t have high contracts being later round selections. Think about the cap space that would be available to go after other players! It could improve the pass rush and run defense both short term and long term. These guys are both projected as mid round selections, which we could use our current projected picks or the compensatory picks from free agency on, and the picks Mathis and Freeney would bring the Colts somewhere between first and third rounders, could address major areas of need. This could be a strong push for young, hungry talent. Thoughts?
My thought is how much CAP space trading Freeny and Mathis creates. ;)
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This thread deserves the Ostrich!!
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I understand the new rookie wage scale makes players more affordable, but you are still paying Luck to sit on the bench for years, and have other free agents on the Colts after this season, Garcon, Wayne, Saturday, Mathis, just to name some of the notable players. Wayne and Mathis are going to want big long term contracts, especially Mathis, much bigger than the affordable one he has now! Where is all this cap room coming from?
You cant keep Wayne AND Mathis, Pure and Simple IMO. Besides, this year seems to indicate a severe drop off for Mathis, possibly making him expendable. Watch how the Patriots handle business. When a player that is on the roster(no matter the tenure or past talent) starts to impede their ability to draft and sign, they cut them loose. Hard decisions have to be made by the front office.
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I am only assuming logic says you either trade the pick and rebuild with Luck, and use that extra cap room for Manning to do things with the team or you trade the pick for a bounty of picks and possibly players to rebuild both short and long term. You have to be all in with one or the other, Peyton and Polian talked about taking a quaterback and the possibilities, that could also mean a trade down, and taking Barkley second or third overall...
They talked about taking a Quarterback in the first round according to the source. That narrows it down. But I agree, so many options here. I wont dismiss trading down and taking Barkley for picks as a viable option IF you know 100 PERCENT Peyton will be healthy. If not, I see no reason in the world why they shouldnt draft Luck if Peyton is still not right.
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Everyone for Luck has the same arugment, keep Manning and Luck, you can't do that, you have to be all in with one or the other! This isn't the same scenario as Green Bay with Favre and Rodgers, so I don't get why everyone assumes that can be done here. This team has alot of holes, and the cap room is not their to have both players on the Roster and acquire the needed pieces to fill the voids to win a Super Bowl!
Dont look now, but you are assuming that they wont have both, even though it has been reported that Peyton is fine with it, Polian is fine with it. Like I said before, who know? But its fun to discuss the possibility!
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Where is this extra cap room coming from? What players aren't coming back, who's contracts are getting re-worked? Maybe you need to fill out my if you were the GM thread, so I can understand your thought process.
I am paraphrasing what I heard on the JMV show. I dont have the raw data. It was explained that the Colts could make major Free agent moves in the offseason if necessary, even if they pick up Peyton's Guaranteed money before the deadline. In the new Collective Bargaining agreement, a rookie wage scale was created to keep them from making extravagant contracts right out of the gate. http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-07-26/new-nfl-rookie-pay-scale-could-strengthen-college-game
http://forums.traditionsportsonline.com/threads/indianapolis-colts-2012-team-management.66565/
Here are a few "sources" if you will for what the colts may have in cap space, and an explanation of that rookie wage scale, that went into effect just in time if they do want to grab Luck.
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You dont do anything until after the season.
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I think its an assumption that they would draft Luck and Keep Manning unless Peyton is 100 percent Healthy, and in that case, I think you STILL draft Luck and Keep Manning as long as you can.
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And then have nothing behind them, and continue on the same path they are currently headed! The most expensive contracts for players and rookies in general are at the QB position, where is the extra money going to come from to keep Manning, pay Luck to sit for multiple years, and then resign their own and try to bring in some other free agents???
The Colts will have lots of Cap room, and Irsay has already stated ticket prices are staying the same. They will have lots of money to do whatever they need to.
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Can't afford to draft Luck, have Manning, resign Mathis and Wayne, and then go after free agents that are capable of being impactful!
I believe with the new CBA setting rookie wage scale standards, the Colts could certainly afford to carry both.
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Hey X, that leaves alot of grey area though, cause I say no, but that also means I think the pick should be traded, that could be interpreted as keep the number one overall pick and take another player, which I don't think anyone wants. It kind of tilts it towards Yes, because again I don't think anyone wants the Colts to keep the number one overall pick and take a player not named Luck. The Luck faithful want Luck selected, and the rest of us want the pick traded for more picks!
Good point. I will add a Depends on Peyton's Health. Thanks!
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Andrew Luck, should the Colts Draft him?
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I think is good to have opposing opinions on the matter. It helps get all the facts out there. I was only merely stating that both our opinions werent the relevant ones to the team. Sorry for the misunderstanding.Every Luck fan on here insists that it's Andrew Luck who will be the answer, and that's the way it is. You're right it doesn't matter what we the fans think its about the front office. Those of us opposing Luck all say we expect Manning to be back and how the Luck pick can fix the Colts short term and long term. The Luck faithful insist that Luck is a sure next great thing, there is no talent outside of him, and that the Colts can fill needs later in the draft and with UDFA. Hasn't that been the problem with the Colts and why the team is 0-16, the UDFA and fill holes later in the draft answer has not been working!
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Here is a little sumthin sumthin for you to watch and decide what a Quarterback who has the ability to run can do for a team. I love the field level shots, they give you perspective on Luck's speed, Size, and Athleticism. He routinely leaves CB's in the dust if they take bad angles. Also note not just the "Yardage" accumulated, but the touchdowns. I am pretty sure those can help a team win games.
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Nobody will convince me Luck is the right move for the Colts in this year's upcoming draft, unless Manning's health will keep him from being on the field.
You and I dont have to be the ones who are convinced. It the Cats down at the 56th street complex that have to be convinced. What we think is irrelevant outside of this forum.
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Ummm, we use the first pick of every OTHER round to fill holes and add a few stop gaps trough free agency, and UDFA's.OK so 2012 rolls around, NFL draft kicks up, Colts with the #1 overall pick take Stanford QB Andrew Luck.
Now what? Now we are a team with two elite QB's and I'd be willing to bet Neither of them are leaving, so for the sake of this topic lets assume we keep both Luck and Manning, Painter is history and so is Orvlosky.
Does anyone see any glimmer of hope to fix this defense? What about aging weapons on offense? This is Clark's 2nd season ending injury in a row, Wayne isn't what he use to be, and Mathis is up for a huge pay raise.
What do we do now? How do we fix this defense without making any huge splashes in FA (because I'm sure the Colts won't do it based purely upon Philly's season)
I'd like to hear some ideas of what comes next and how we resolve the gaping holes on both Defense and Offense.
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The valuable part of that Scenario is we get to keep Peyton for a few years then hand the Keys to Luck. It could also be argued that if they Give Luck snaps in practice, he could get used to NFL game speed before stepping on the field for a REAL game. Every NFL player says that is the toughest part, getting used to NFL game speed.
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All of those things fall under running for yardage. You don't have to be a scrambler to have "escapeability." Ben Rothlesburger is far from a scrambler but he has great escapeability. And do you expect the colts to run wildcat and option plays? They don't run trick plays and formations like that very often.
How could you Possibly pretend to know what a new head coach and offensive Co-ordinator would scheme with Andrew luck? You dont know, and neither do I, but I have been watching football long enough to know that there is more benefit to having a Quarterback who can run then just "racking up yardage" so continue to argue that if you like, but consider what Aaron Rodgers Running ability did for him last year(and this year), and then make an informed statement.
also, ask yourself this Question, "In the 2004 AFC championship game when the colts played the Patriots in a relatively low scoring game, in very cold, bad windy weather, with lockdown coverage in place because the Pats were dropping 8 into coverage, how would Peyton have been able to positively effect the game for the Colts IF he was able to Run like Andrew Luck?"
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2 things:
1. Andrew Luck did not start as a freshman. He started as a red-shirt freshman which I consider a sophomore considering that he still gets to fully practice with the team. He just gets an extra year of eligibility.
2. Running quaterbacks have there benefits and there consequences. You don't have to be fast and athletic to be able to extend the play. Just look at Peyton Manning and Ben Rothlesburger. The only benefit from a running quarterback is that they are more able to run for yards on the ground. They are more easily injured though if they take a lot of hits while running. Michael Vick is always beat up and injured behind his O-line and he is a 1000 times better scrambler than Andrew Luck. Aaron Rodgers has gotten as concusion and missed games after he got tackled on a scrambling attempt.
A. Whatever you want to call it, freshman year, redshirt year, orange polka dot year, I dont care. I compiled the stats and the percentage is not open for interpretation. It is what it is.
B. To say the ONLY benefit of a Quarterback who can run is yardage, is silly mr friend. I can think of many benefits:
Quarterback draw packages vs. Cover two
escapeability
option to run wildcat/read option type plays near the goaline/redzone
Inclemnet weather games, playoff games very windy games it adds dimension to the offense
run/pass rollout options
etc.
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He's averaging 71% completion over the past two years and 65% completion percentage if you include his freshman year (keep in mind that most freshmen do not start). So, overall he has a 65% completion percentage over his college career, which is still very good.
I looked up his career stats(including freshman year) and he has a completion percentage of 66.4 646 out of 973 so if you want to split hairs, thats cool. But he is trending up into 71 plus completion percentage and he is only a junior. Let some NFL coaches get ahold of him, work on his mechanics, and he would only get better. He runs like a raped ape outside the pocket too, and we cant forget that very solid aspect of his game, considering how often he would have to run behind a rebuilt offensive line.
I Have Seen Enough, Now Its Time For A Poll! :)
in NFL Draft, Scouting, and Free Agent Talk
Posted
Please, no fights here!
Just wanted opinion's and everyone's is valid. Split almost 50/50 down the middle, very interesting!