Zebra3
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Posts posted by Zebra3
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You can blame Irsay or Polian or the coaches, but the ultimate blame falls on Peyton. When you have a player that takes up the amount of cap space he does then you really limit yourself to other talent you can bring to your team. Just think of the other talent this franchise could have brought in if Peyton say takes just half of the monies he is getting has gotten. I think you have to look at the overall greed of Peyton and a couple of the other "top" wage earners on this team as to why we are where we are now. I mean really, can someone here tell me how Peyton couldn't live very comfortably on half of the income he has been and will be paid.
OK, this post is pretty much borderline inciting and baiting. It's documented that Peyton has renegotiated his contract multiple times in the past to free up money for the team to use, and has publicly stated he will accept a lower value contract in order for the team to have more resources for other players. So simple facts contradict your assertions about "the overall greed of Peyton". When you post something so obviously inflammatory that contradicts fact, you really look like you are seeking to generate a reaction.
Looking at the rest of the thread, it's clear that you got some reaction and that some people know a duck when they see/hear one.
So, I'm going to close this thread, and suggest that you be a lot more careful about inciting and baiting in future topics that you create.
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Oh, I'm familiar with how to get the full list. I'm not complaining about the choices - they are many and varied - just that the three that I used to use the vast majority of the time weren't brought forward. I'm sure that they were considered to be too similar to new ones, and nothing all that exiting. I just happened to prefer them.
I PMed her with the old file names, but haven't heard back. Not a big deal regardless.
She'll get back to you, I am certain of that.
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Really? We're breaking out the Madden line? It's fine to disagree with me, but you don't have to insult my intelligence in the process.
And by the way, through 9 games we've given up 16 sacks. That projects to about 28 for the year. Nearly half of what you're so concerned about a rookie taking. This is with Kerry Collins who makes Drew Bledsoe look mobile and Curtis Painter who is for all intents and purposes a rookie (and is also terrible). We just drafted what appear to be bookend tackles who will be back next year. The offensive line is far from a finished product, but I see no reason to believe they will be giving up 50 sacks next season regardless of who is behind center.
Not to mention that one of Luck's strengths is his mobility which will help him elude pass rushers.
But yeah, I'm just playing Madden.
I'm not insulting your intelligence, I am simply observing that in my opinion and experience, putting a great QB behind a porous line with no one to throw to is a recipe for disaster in the real world, and only in the simulation have I seen it work. That's not an insult to you or your intelligence, it's my opinion of the idea of putting a top rate QB into a second rate team.
As for the sacks this year, I think the fact that Painter can gain 60+ yards using his feet on a single drive gives an indication as to why there have been fewer sacks, but there have been plenty of hurries and plenty of contact. The thing is, we completely disagree on the idea of putting a great QB behind a poor line, you think it's not a problem, I think it's generally a recipe for disaster. The thing is, I get that there are exceptions, and that therefore sometimes it works, but you seem to be unwilling to accept that in the majority of cases, it ends poorly for the QB. That's fine, we can disagree. But please don't claim I am insulting you because you don't like an illustration I use. There was no insult intended in the comment at all.
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I don't know, the team that drafted Manning was pretty terrible and he turned out ok.
Also, he'd be under rookie contract which means it's not that much comparatively.
The exception does not make the rule. Many promising early round picks at QB have been ruined by their trial by fire in the NFL. You can't put a fresh faced rookie in and let them endure 50+ sacks a year and expect that nothing will change in them. But, I know you're going to argue the opposite to whatever I post, so it's all good. Maybe slotting the 1st pick QB into a terrible team works in Madden, in the NFL it's a meat grinder. Once again, you can put Peyton up as the exception to this is you wish, but the exception does not make the rule.
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:blink:
Big money?
LOL! we don't even work for
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Ok so not talking about the future, what can yoou give us permission to talk about? Tehe Falcons game? What would you entertain as a good topic?
No one said anything about permission to discuss, I simply gave my opinion. Believe it or not, moderators have those as well.
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If the team is truly this bad, drafting luck will *not* help. You could draft the very best QB ever to play the game (oh, wait we already did), but without an O-line to protect and receivers to throw to, that QB will spend his 1st season flat on his back, and ultimately that QB will lose confidence in his ability and be broken. A broken QB, even potentially the best QB ever, is still a broken QB and difficult to fix. If the Colts are truly as bad as some thing, then we ought to be all about finding an adequate veteran QB for next season and rebuilding the teams from the lines up through the draft and free agency. Drafting Luck to replace Peyton does not in any way guarantee success. It places a ridiculous burden on Luck's shoulders, and saddles the team with another large contract that leaves precious little room for maneuver when it comes to rebuilding the lines, the secondary and receiver corps.
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I really can't understand your disgust one little bit. You are not thinking this through.
What I'm thinking through is a) people wanting Manning to play this year - not realistic. B) people saying if manning doesn't play this year we need to draft Luck and trade Peyton - not very smart when for all we know Peyton could be 100% next season. c) people within the media and fan base continue discussing Mr Luck giving credence to the entire thing. d) people posting here express sentiments - as some have - that amount to tossing Peyton aside for Luck regardless of his status.
As for thinking the actual situation through, how about this. Remain loyal to the team and Manning, remain realistic about this season, wait patiently for Feb/March when a final eval can be done on Manning's neck and shoulder to determine whether he is/is not, will be/will not be healthy next season, then we can have this discussion. Having it now, along with all the calls for it to be done, is simply premature and disrespectful - imho.
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I'm not saying you don't do things the right way or fill your team with high character guys. But you do that because those sort of people are the type of people who make you into a winner. This is football. A game men play where they beat the crap out of each other in order to move a leather ball across an imaginary line.
Oh please, not the big men beating crap our of each other over the pigskin line again. I find that line of reasoning to be anachronistic at best. However, be that as it may, I think the game has moved beyond leather helmets and missing front teeth. I understand the points you made in the rest of the post but none of that alters my point of view on the matter. Having supported teams that suck my entire life, I know that there is more to the game, and other games, than winning.
As for the point about contracts, I don't care what teams or players do contractually. Generally speaking they each do what is best for them. In specific cases though, and Peyton Manning is one of them, there are additional elements to consider. So no, I probably haven't objected when a relatively less well known player is cut. However I objected big time when Rob Morris was cut (for example) for precisely these kinds of reason because from everything I saw, Morris was a character guy, a Colt through and through, and a pretty decent tackler. I thought we handled him badly, and I said so at the time.
Sure it's a business, sure it's a rough game, but some things go beyond those concerns - IMHO.
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Trying to add it to the site? I hope it has good malware filters. That reminds me, are any of the old custom emoticons going to be added back? I miss a couple of them (although they are rapidly fading from my pathetic memory). :o
They should be there, click the emoticon icon in the editor and you get the ribbon of icons below the edit window, click the 'show all' link and you get to see every emoticon available - there are **lots**. I think PG brought back pretty much all of them from the old and old-old forums...
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playing 20 yards off receivers doesnt help either. every single g***** play.
Did Larry Coyer come from the Redskins school of Defense? It seems that for a decade or more they played 10-15 yards off receivers and couldn't figure out why teams were burning them. Almost like Coyer's defense this year...
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If you (the royal you) stop being a fan because one player leaves, you aren't a fan of the team, you're a fan of that player.
Which is fine, but if that's the case, be honest about it.
No, not really, I think you are not really getting what people are saying. If the Colts toss a healthy (yet to be determined) Manning aside for an unproven Draft pick, they are - IMHO - not the Colts team that I thought they were. Peyton Manning has done more for this team and city than many if any in the last decade or two. That earns loyalty in my book. I thought that the Colts were all about things like loyalty, family values, honor, being the 'good guys', and all that kind of thing. So if the team I support, turns out not to be those things and demonstrates it by tossing aside the most significant player in franchise history, tell me again why I should not re-evaluate my feeling for the team?
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I have to disagree with this. I have seen fans say trade Peyton, not saying it is the majority but it has been posted on this board.
I also think it is disrespectful, and I thought so before Mora said anything. Yes they can wear whatever they want and buy whatever they want, it is something I personally would not do though.
To me it is a slap in the face to the team I support.
Indeed!
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I don't get everyone on here screaming for Luck. If anything the last couple of years worth of draft picks has shown is that there is no can't miss college player. He could be the next Ryan Leaf for all we know. You have to calm down and see what happens to Manning, see if he's healthy. The man deserves to play in a Colt uniform as long as he wants. If he's healthy draft tools on defense and weapons on offense and some free agents to get him another couple of rings. You know what you have with Manning, with Luck I'm just not ready to believe the hype and I'm not ready to throw Manning away. EVER HEAR OF LOYALTY.......guess not.
I'm with you on this.
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I don't want to see Peyton in another uniform ever
Thank you.
I'm sick of this speculation that essentially has the Colts tossing Peyton Manning aside for Luck, like the Buccaneers threw Coach Dungy overboard to get Gruden.
No offense to anyone whether they be in the front office or on the couch at home, but Peyton manning has earned more loyalty that this. It disgusts me personally to see the fevered speculation about all of this. Yes, I know football is a business, but it's also a team sport that works on team moral, loyalty and players playing for reasons other than a pay check. Just as fans support a team for things other than their record. I support the Colts because I thought that the Colts organization was different. the Colts were the 'good' guys of the NFL that believe in values like loyalty, honor, duty, doing the right thing because it's the right thing. That was the attitude of the team, the players, the fans, the organization, the city, the stadium, everything - up until this year for sure, and perhaps last as well.
OK, I know, not entirely on topic in this thread, but still....
Either way, if the Colts part ways with a healthy Peyton Manning because they have decided to go after Andrew Luck, they are not the organization I thought they were, and the shine will definitely have gone off the horseshoe.
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Because it was completely irrelevant to the point I was making.
Next time I shall make sure to only express an opinion completely aligned with your thoughts when replying to you instead of allowing my little ADD brain to operate at it's tangential best.
Next time I will make sure that I am thinking before posting in between three different things at a busy Friday afternoon at work...My apologies, I was in the wrong here. - Z3
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The doctors interviewed (I do not know what Peyton's doctors say) said this is a 3-month recovery period.
they disagree with your medical knowledge..
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Hmmm... well, the doctor I know who performed two spinal fusions on someone very close to me indicated that a fusion can take about a year to completely harden. 3 months post op was considered early in the recovery period. I don't know what talking head doctors were interviewed, but I honestly think they are not being realistic. Nor do I think some fans are being realistic. Wishful thinking is one thing, fooling ourselves is another.
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I dont want to go 0-16....
Then get behind the team and painter and support them like crazy.
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It would not be a miracle..
This isnt a knee or a foot injury....He's either OK or he's not. There's no degrees of OK with vetebrae
The projected healing time is 3 months..That's what the doctors said.. If he's cleared (a big 'if') he plays.
**snip**
Please explain how Manning returning in late December its any more of a risk NOW than it will be in the first exhibition game next August...
Vertebrae do not heal even near completely in 3 months. Fusion surgery recovery is typically about a year, depending on the type of fusion. 3 months is not long enough for the fusion to happen and complete, especially as Peyton has already stated that it hasn't yet fused. The idea that somehow it fuses and Peyton get's in game shape and practices sufficiently to be on the field in December is ridiculous. And I will line up to post how ridiculous it is if the team does put him on the field in December.
Collie is cleared to play, as you have pointed out, concussions are cumulative. So there's no recovery time and they're also a crap-shoot because you don't know whether 1 more concussion or 10 more will be catastrophic for the individual. I haven't commented on Austin Collie playing, and won't here. But I do know something about spinal fusion. I also know that with Peyton's fusion happening in the neck area, if that fusion fails and Peyton suffers a neck injury in the process, the word quadriplegic isn't out of the question. Obviously a severe enough neck injury for a totally healthy player can result in that kind of damage as well, however a player with a incomplete spinal fusion, is far, far, far more prone to a severe outcome than a healthy one. so why take that chance? Why not go through the full recovery? In my mind there is zero reason to put Peyton out on the field this season at all. the front office and medical personnel will have all the information they need to make a sound decision in February. They know what kind of player Peyton is, they can evaluate his state of health and prognosis then. You don't need to see Peyton on the field in December to make a decision in Februrary.
As to returning in December vs returning next August. Let's just count the months shall we, December, January, February, March, April, May, June, July; OK, I make that 8 months. That's 8 months for the fusion to knit and harden, it's 8 months for the nerves to regenerate and the muscle to recondition/regenerate, it's 8 months for Peyton to recover and recondition himself and make any adjustments to his throwing action that are required. But the absolute point is that 8 more months of healing results in a far stronger fusion that is far safer for Peyton in a game than it will be this December. So, how will it be safer? I would hope you can see that yourself from what I just said.
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I have no idea where this comes from, at least as it relates to the context of the post of mine you answered.
You mentioned luck in your post, I replied and posted my thoughts on the topic, it wasn't a direct response to your specific point, but a general thought that your post sparked in the context of the many posts in this forum about drafting luck.
And I should have posted in another thread entirely, or at least a general reply instead of responding to a specific post.
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Peyton, on the very, very small chance that you read this or it's read to you. Let me just wish you the very best in your recovery, and say that I am looking forward to you taking the field next season. Get well #18, whether it be sooner or later, just get well.
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If Peyton puts on a uniform and takes the field in a game this season, I will be absolutely shocked beyond belief. There is really no way that he can be fully healed in that timescale, and with a fusion, if it hasn't fully taken and fused, a single high tackle could break the fusion and risk even greater injury to Peyton. Since the season is in the crapper already, there is simply zero sense in putting a player recovering from this surgery in harms way until they are truly 100%.
Jim Irsay knows it, Peyton knows it, the front office knows it.
Let me ask you all, assuming a worst case scenario of no wins without Peyton, and somehow Peyton's neck miraculously fuses in the next 4-5 weeks, is 1-15 or 2-14 so important that you would risk Peyton Manning's future career and ability to walk to gain the one or two wins? Let's just be honest, put PM on the IR and talk again in February.
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Manning makes this team better but a contender? No way.
If you take Luck with the intent of having him sit behind Manning for a few years and then depend on the rest of your draft to fill the myriad of holes on the roster, I don't think they would have done nearly enough.
Edit : This should have been posted as a general reply, rather than a reply to Jskinz, possible even in a different thread, it's not really in context here at all. - Z3
Peyton is a known quantity, Luck is a crapshoot. He's an unknown, you don't kniow if he'll be the next Tim Tebow or the next Peyton Manning. This blind faith in Luck over Manning is very odd to me. You're talking up an rookie of unknown NFL capability over a certain first time ballot hall of fame player. Sorry, I simply do not get how anyone can think like that.
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Armchair GM's / Team Owners --
Late Feb rolls around and Manning has NOT practiced at all in December....the "option date" comes due, what's your decision?!?!
Can't answer that now, if I could, why wait for Feb? When we get to February, if the medical and conditioning staff's evaluations are that he's healing and will regain full capability, then you have to keep the faith. If the evaluations are not positive, I doubt that Peyton will want to return anyway. Can you honestly imagine Peyton wanting to return to the game at anything other than his best?
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Why Should Painter Start This Weekend?
in Colts Football
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Because unless the rest of the team, coaches and game planners do a better job, it will make no difference who starts at QB.