schwamm
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Posts posted by schwamm
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10 wins if Grigson and Pagano are as good as advertised. Grigson has to bring in additional players and Pagano has to teach his concepts. Pagano appears to be an intense coach who wants to win now.
Of courses he does. History shows coaches who don't bring immediate results don't last long.
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You nailed it! That and draws were very effective as PM and Edge worked well together in disguising it and also sold the pass action brilliantly because of it.
And what would have allowed the stretch play to continue to work after James left? Maybe someone who could seal off the edge and create an outside lane? Addai only had one year with Glenn on the line, the Addai/Rhodes combo looked great in '06, and they worked the stretch play well that year. The next year was where we started seeing the "hop, hop, hop, cloud of dust, loss of a yard", and I suspect it was because Addai was so used to seeing a wide opening around the outside, and suddenly in his second year, it was nowhere to be found.
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I certainly agree Freeney's Lisfranc was a factor that year, but we got Freeney back. I'm saying I think the loss of Glenn severely disrupted the OLine, and set it back for years, and likely putting much more of the strain on PM to carry the team (I keep picturing the PM happy feet dance). My recollection is that we've watched a carosel on that line ever since. Prior to his retirement, the OLine was a model of consistancy and durability, and was often considered among the very best in the league.
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I keep reading comments about how terrible our run game is, how Addai and Brown aren't cutting it, how aweful our OLine is, what a bust Ugoh was, and how we ought to have won more SBs in Manning's time with the team.
Consider this possibility - call it the Tarik Factor:
After or around the time of the SB win, what if Glenn made some comments about how tired he was and how he was starting to think about retiring. BP starts thinking that might occur a year or 2 out, and trades up in the 2nd round of that next draft to get Ugoh (trading the '08 1st rounder), anticipating that Ugoh would have a year, possible 2 to learn under Tarik (If he knew without a doubt that Glenn was leaving, I'd argue he would have gone LT in the 1st, possibly even trading up a little, instead of selecting Gonzo).
Instead, Glenn decides to retire earlier than expected before training camp, and Ugoh is thrust into a starting role without what had commonly been a typical 2 years (give or take) on the bench to learn the system for OL draftees. Without the proper foundational training, Ugoh "survives" his rookie season, showing some signs to encourage fans, but starts to tank in his 2nd year, loses all confidence in his game, and is quickly labled a bust. Worse still, the trade up to get Ugoh costs the team the next year's 1st rounder, and sets back the cohesion of the OLine for years.
Likewise, Edge has a a couple great seasons before departing for the Cardinals in '06, and Addai comes in as a rookie (in a tandem with Rhodes) and shows a great deal of promise. Who was still the LT in '06? Glenn. When he retires, we start to see the running game struggles, and after Ugoh's rookie season (where I still argue he did OK), the wheels seem to come off altogether.
As for the SBs, I think there is a legitimate arguement that we very well could have won another if Glenn had stayed on the team another couple years. I really like our chances to beat the Chargers in the playoffs after the '07 season if Glenn was still there, and credit PM's picks to shady line play. PM had a great game overall, and it ended up as close as it was because of those picks. Glenn would have gone a long way towards shoring up the line, and buying PM just that little bit more time to find the open receivers.
All this said... I like the selection of Castonzo last year, and really hope he continues to mature as a LT. It concerns me that he was thrust into the lineup in his rookie year, but I think he was more ready to handle it than Ugoh. If he pans out, I could see the Colts having a very solid OLine for the foreseeable future, I could see a significant uptick in our RB production (even with the guys currently on the roster), and I can see a substantially better record next year, regardless of who ends up under center.
Just my 2 pennies.
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then how do you explain epic monster Edgerrin James rushing seasons?
If you'll recall, most thought Addai looked great his rookie year, and fell off after. One HUGE difference? Tarik Glenn Retired. IMHO, enormously underrated.
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Less money than current contract for another team is, what, something like $12M, where the Colts need it to be around $5M (+$10M against the cap when we cut him) to benefit the team against the cap
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Why does the contract have to be re done? By not paying the option bonus on March 8th that would make Manning a Free Agent and any team (including the Colts) would be able to sign Manning for whatever contract. If the NFLPA won't accept a renegotiation then they can just out right terminate it on March 8th and sign a completely new deal
True, but that new contract needs to be acceptable to all parties. For the Colts, it would need to be in the neighborhood of $5M or less, to make it any better than where they are now. Is Manning willing to accept that when he could command a ton more elsewhere? Possibly, and I hope so, but I'd guess not likely. Even if he is willing, is the NFLPA going to be excited about one of its premier players taking a huge paycut? I would think that is very doubtful, and they have to approve the contract.
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The discussion of which QBs were busts or champions is always a puzzler to me. Sometimes I've wondered if Ryan Leaf might have had a chance to be successful if he had started at a team with a better infrastructure, and more discipline than the Chargers had in the late 90's. Likewise, I've wondered if Alex Smith might not have struggled as much as he has if he had better and more consistant coaching, and a better cast of characters on the field around him early on. Or how about if David Carr hadn't been sacked half a million times in his first several years?
Conversely, what if Favre never got out of Atlanta and never got the opportunity to start? Or Steve Young never left Tampa to discover his talent in San Fran?
The thing that concerns me most about drafting Luck (or whoever) is that I have no idea what this team's personality will be this next year. I hope Pagano leads a clean, disciplined and tough nosed squad, but I don't know. Whatever young QB gets introduced, they can only be as successful as their environment allows, IMO.
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I've said it once, I'll say it again.. I'll eat my hat if Peyton won't re-do his deal. I find it impossible to believe it's about money for him at this point in his career. He has money and has expressed his desire to stay in Indy, which he will because he will redo his deal with Irsay. It was never Peyton's idea to be the "highest paid QB in the NFL" that was all Irsay.
My concern with this idea is that it doesn't account for what the league or the NFLPA will accept. Let's for a moment argue that Manning is the most generous and selfless player to ever play in the league (don't know, but am on board with the desire to believe), and that he'd prolly renegotiate to play for a $1.00 salary next year...
...the reality is that there is no way such a salary would be accepted by the NFLPA, even if JI and PM agree to it.
I've seen the comments that PM wants to stay. I've seen the comments that Irsay wants him to stay. Making it happen, though, in such a way that it doesn't set the franchise back and is acceptable to all parties who have to sign off on it, just doesn't look very likely. Couple that with the ENORMOUS unknown that is PM's health, and I may have to eat your hat if such a deal can be redone.
I'm allergic to hat, though, so I'll prolly pass.
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I appreciate your link, and I NEVER SAID that the businesses in Marion and surrounding counties didn't make a ton of cash. If you could actually read and understand what I is that the city itself lost $800,000 dollars. All that money the hotels, bars, restaurants, etc made doesn't go directly into the city's bank account. You can good grief yourself!
And I imagine the city will see a ton of that money back when taxes on the money made by the hotels, bars, restaurants, shops, etc. come due. Likewise, they will see even more in returns if they can parlay this success into national conventions, other large-scale sporting events, and even just a simple uptick in visitors to our city. It's easy to try to encapsulate everything down to "the city lost money", but it'll take years to really determine the verity of such a statement.
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Agreed. Freeney and Mathis have for years been the best things about the Colts defense, the way they can apply unrelenting pressure on the QB. I am of the opinion you keep your key cogs, of which I believe Freeney and Mathis are. Hence, with all this forum chatter that has been going on about get rid of Freeney or let Mathis walk, it's good to my ears to hear Manusky identifying those guys as key guys. I think it's logical to infer from that, that indeed the Colts truly do intend on retaining Mathis and continuing to utilize Freeney.
Granted, hopefully they can restructure things with Freeney with an extension that provides some immediate salary cap relief.
Also, I like the idea that the powers that be are preaching an "aggressive" approach, which is something I think the Colts D has lacked for years.
I have no doubt it would be best to keep them, in an ideal world. I think the chatter you refer to has more to do with the practical difficulties inherent it paying them what they are actually worth (vs. what their contracts demand) AND fielding a competitve team around them. To my reading, I've seen precious few posters who argue that Frathis sucks, just that it could well be too expensive to keep both (and Manning and Wayne and Clark and Garcon and Brackett and...)
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I did see your post. Your assumption is that Luck is a franchise quarterback worth far more than you could ever get in trade. That remains to be seen but frankly I am extremely skeptical.
I think what he is saying is that the odds of Luck being a franchise QB outweighs the risk that he might not. Likewise, there is the distinct possibility that trading the #1 for a bounty of other picks could come back to haunt us. Ever play poker? Every decision the team makes has a degree of risk to it, and effective owners and GMs do everything they can to mitigate those risks, but there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to find a risk free choice. I think the OP was showing a situation where a "keep the hand we were dealt" philosophy might well have kept the franchise from any of the success we saw over the past decade.
I'm also not a big fan of this arguement that a '12 Manning (as far as we know today) is 100% guaranteed better that a '98 Harbaugh. I absolutely hope he is back to his old form, and retires as a Colt, but to omit the enormous looming question marks surrounding his current abilities seems short sighted. Likewise, I think you are being myopic to argue that Luck is definitely NOT going to be a franchise quarterback, just because he MIGHT be a bust, or MIGHT get injured, or whatever.
I think the team is in full-on risk assessment mode, attempting to determine as many possible options, and attempting to weigh all risks/rewards for each option. My guess is the decisions they ultimately make will be calculated to provide the best possible chance at success this next season, AND for the future, even if it is sans Manning. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the OP is illustrating a point that the franchise was at a similar (note: not the same) crossroads, and that the decision made then turned out better than possible alternatives.
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I would be surprised if Garcon finds any "big money". He hasn't been consistant enough. He makes some amazing plays then drops very easy passes. He might develop into an elite receiver but he's not there yet. Vincent Jackson, DeShawn Jackson, Stevie Johnson, and the Saints receivers are all free agents and should end up in front of garcon. I agree Wayne is gone, Manning might be and if that happens maybe Saturday too. I think Addai stays and becomes a third down kind of back. Our O line should be improved so we might be able to run. Could be a surprisingly decent offence with a good WR draft pick.
Don't forget the $$$ paid to Braylon "what is a route?" Edwards. Maybe I'm a homer, but Garcon > Edwards (by a mile).
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My heart and mind diverge on this point. I want Manning to stay a Colt until he retires, but I know there are too many factors playing against it, and it isn't likely (unless he hangs them up in the next couple weeks, which is also unlikely). Regardless of who we draft, we need to be prepared for the probability that this team will be without Manning. If not this next season, it'll be soon.
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If only ifs and buts were candy and nuts...
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I think we all agree after looking at the Manning era that you can't win by just having a great offense. You need a complete team which means sacrificing on one side to keep everything balanced. What I do think is that since we are NOW in the position to draft a great quarterback you don't go against that. Draft Luck and start off with him as the nucleus. Don't sacrifice some unknown quantity of future picks to reach up to get a QB when you find out you have a team without a franchise quarterback. You've lost all leverage then. We can rebuild this team in 2-3 years tops and be competitive...at least in the 1st round of the playoffs.
I also think we can't really blame all of this team imbalance on Manning, his talent, or his salary. It should also be considered that the decade + of drafting towards the tail end of every round isn't something that is very common, and it is far more difficult to find elite talent in the late 20s every year. I'd guess that just about every other team had at least a year or two of earlier picks in that time span to help fill in a few elite guys.
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Cutting Brackett will save $200K to the cap (due to the acceleration of unamortized prorated pieces of his bonus)
Cutting Clark will save $1.74MM to the cap (due to the acceleration of unamortized prorated pieces of his bonus)
If you can find a team willing to pick up the $14.035 for his 2012 salary, and give the Colts something in return, you can trade him.
The current franchise tag for DEs is $10.6MM. If you can find a team that values Freeney $3.4MM more than a franchise DE, you may have a trading partner.
Thanks for the follow up. Strong teamwork.
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Player A: 1st rd Pick, 129 Games Started, 102.5 Sacks, 13 Pass Deflections, 42 Forced Fumbles, 256 tackles.
Player B: 5th rd Pick, 71 Games Started, 83.5 Sacks, 15 Pass Deflections, 39 Forced Fumbles, 305 tackles.
Yes I think Freeney is overrated. Once again, not saying he's BAD, but OVERRATED. I think all the people running here to say "hes gameplanned for" or "Mathis has it easier" are the exact thing Im talking about.
Dwight hasn't benefited from Mathis's presence? Only Mathis has benefited? Please.
All true, but I've seen no comments from players over the years, describing ways their teams gameplanned for Mathis. Freeney, yes. Both, maybe. But when DFree was on the shelf with his Lisfranc injury, I also don't remember Mathis doing that well on his own.
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To be overrated, first somebody needs to think you're good for something. Some of you are confusing "overrated" with "sucks".
Most overrated on current roster? I'm going with Garcon. There seems to be a general sense from fans around the league that he's worth far more than he is. A close second is Dallas Clark. He (Dallas) did that to himself last year and I don't want to hear any bunk excuses crafted for him. He stunk on ice and went down several pegs in my opinion. I could not care less if they cut him, traded him or just threw his sorry butt in the White River.
Given the extent KK was lauded on the previous iteration of this forum, I would say he qualifies as overrated. There were people who seemed to think he was "the next coming" before he ever even touched a football on an NFL field.
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Gonzo should be cut because of his attitude. Wayne and Garcon will be kept or cut based on contract demands. Clark should be traded because his contract is too expensive for a one dimentional TE. Tamme can give the team the same receiving production as Clark. What is needed is a complete TE that can catch and block. The Colts are moving to a more balanced offense which will use a FB more often thereby reduce the number of plays using dual TEs or a third slot receiver. Garcon should be a priority because of his blocking as much as for his big play ability. We can not afford to keep both Tamme and Clark because neither is a good blocker. Bracket is over priced and should be cut. Lacy should be kept for depth and the new DB coaches may help him with technique. Pollack may have been hampered by lack of coaching but he seems to be iniury prone. Saturday is old and should retire. Hopefully the strength and conditioning coaches will make the players who are kept stronger and healthier but a change in offensive philosophy will dictate some current players moving on. If Freeney is opposed to playing LB he should be traded because he will be over priced as a situational pass rusher. Grigson has stated his desire to find a starter in each round of the draft and this draft is strong in CBs and OGs which are areas of need. Pagano is a players coach but he has to develop new leaders on the Colts defense.
There are definitely posters on this site with a far better knowledge of players salaries and the team's cap situation, but I believe there only negligible savings for cutting Clark or Brackett because of the way their contracts were structured. If either are gone, it'll be because of performance, not potential savings.
I also doubt Freeney can be traded because teams won't want to swallow his current contract. I think it is far more likely he'll be cut. And where does the Gonzo attitude comment come from? I have nothing to add about whether to keep him or not, but I haven't heard anything about him having a bad attitiude.
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I am having brain fade...who is Hall?
Roy, WR from OSU
Which brings to mind Mr. Kenton Keith...
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Bc a guy drafted later, who provides similar if not better production, CoughMathisCough, is better for the team.
Same reason you don't draft a guy in the first only to return kicks. Value.
If Dwight was a 7th rounder he'd be praised right? Can't praise late and ignore early selections.
I'm inclined to ask if coughMathiscough might have benefitted just a little bit from teams keying on that other guy... old whatshisname... mr. overrated. Everything I've seen suggests opposing teams had (still have?) immense respect for the havoc Freeney could cause, and that they often gameplanned with him in mind. That speaks more to me than all the insightful and experienced talent evaluations in this thread.
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http://www.fieldofsc...anapolis_colts/
Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay has made clear that he's not willing to pay more rent or ticket taxes to help bail out the city's stadium board, despite dire warnings that it might have to close his new stadium if it can't fill its $47-million-a-year budget gap. Said Irsay:
"I'm not going to renegotiate. That's the bottom line. All we did was negotiate in good faith. We've done everything we can to have a great organization. We've lived up to our part. We've exceeded our part."Irsay's part, you'll recall, was to kick in all of $100 million toward a nearly $700 million stadium project — $48 million of which he got back via a "lease termination fee" from the city. Meanwhile, Irsay is getting $6 million a year in naming-rights money from Lucas Oil, while paying all of $250,000 a year in rent. I wouldn't want to renegotiate either.
I can imagine Peyton being able to use Irsay's quote verbatim.
Irsay also gets 1/2 the revenue from all non Colts events which is absolutely preposterous and he keeps all the increased revenue from the additional luxury suites in LOS. He has already recovered his 100 million and now we pay everything for the Colts to stay here.
But I'm done here. If you are an Indianapolis area taxpayer and don't care where your money goes..or you agree with how it's spent then that's your prerogative.
I gather you'd rather Irsay had negotiated a contract that wasn't to his advantage. Don't mistake him making money with the city not gaining anything from it. And don't mistake the huge budget gap, due to the Stadium and Convention Building Authority's disastrous mismanagement, for an unreasonable contract.
I too am a Marion county resident, and I've been around to witness the remarkable changes that have occurred downtown because of outstanding stewardship from a succession of mayors (starting with Hudnut, IMHO) and because of the success of efforts to define Indy as a Sports Capitol. LOS is an integral part of that definition.
Cities offer incentives to all kinds of businesses, especially where those businesses will increase revenue and growth in multiple areas. Indianapolis wants and needs Irsay to be successful, and any business worth its salt would only enter a contract if it offered opportunity to increase profitability.
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He always says that he wants Manning back if he's healthy, but always makes it clear that he doesn't think he is healthy. He said over and over that he could afford Manning and Luck and it wasn't about money. Now, he says it's contingent on money.
I certainly don't know for sure, but this may just be a misunderstanding of what Irsay has been saying. The way I've understood it, Irsay wouldn't have a problem paying Manning handsomely (and did so last year to the tune of 26M), but the league still imposes a salary cap and he has to balance Manning's costs with the long term good of the team. When he says it isn't about the money, I feel he means the value he places on Manning is very high, and if he had nothing to keep him from paying a king's ransom, he absolutely would. I don't doubt his sincerity.
The Tarik Factor
in Colts Football
Posted
I'm not saying the team tanked right away, but that it created a ripple effect that led to last year. After Ugoh's rookie season, the team had to almost constantly shuffle the deck to try to keep the line from leaking like a sieve, and BP was constantly trying to plug holes (unsuccessfully) through the draft. We also lost the stretch play because Ugoh/Charlie Johnson were never able to hold the edge the way Glenn did. That all put more pressure on PM to carry the team, and hide all its flaws, and without Peyton last year, all the team's weaknesses were exposed.
As for my comment that Glenn's retirment may have cost us additional SBs, I would say it is a huge leap for sure. There are surely a ton of reasons we failed in subsequent attempts, but I would have liked our chances with a better running game and more time for PM to throw. I think we would have had that with Glenn.