schwamm
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Posts posted by schwamm
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Yeah I would be okay with that.Â
On the other hand, I would be happier with a WR corps talented enough to allow the club to release Whalen and possibly showcase Brazill in the preseason in anticipation of trading him for depth at a position of more pressing need (ahem... FS... or maybe CB).
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I am always for taking BPA over need.Â
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Just for perspective... fans felt much the same way you do about the selection of a receiver in the first round of the 2001 draft. There were much bigger needs. The club had Harrison, Jerome Pathon, Terrence Wilkins, Edgerrin James, and the TE tandem of Dilger and Pollard. Why in the world would Polian blow a first freakin' rounder on a WR?Â
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History doesn't reflect kindly on Wilkins's play at WR, but I recall having high hopes at that time. And Pathon was so-so, but I recall speculation around that time that he was working out with Jerry Rice, and all his problems with marginal route running and drops were going to go away.Â
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I can't tell you how many times I had to listen then to people gripe about how taking Reggie Wayne was a TERRIBLE PICK. How does that pick look to you now... 13 years later? Just wondering.
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I think DQ will help from a leadership perspective, but my understanding from Skidmarks fans is that he hasn't been so great against the run, contrary to what some above wanted to suggest. If anything, I could see AJax cleaning up as the run stuffing ILB, not DQ.
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I mostly agree with you. There isn't much need to make any moves at the moment.I'm not interested in trading anyone until it's proven that we have to.
I don't want to trade Brazil today only to find out that he's figured things out and he's a very good pro tomorrow.
We can trade him during August..... once we've seen him in camp and pre-season....
The other area where we have depth (not star power perhaps, but decent depth) is at linebacker.... both inside and out.
Hopefully we can swap a linebacker for a safety... do a deal like that during August... Just thinking out loud...
The only place I part ways: a "very good pro" is born from the marriage of talent and opportunity. Unless a rash of injuries occurs, I'm not convinced he'll have much more opportunity as a Colt. If he is ever to become that "very good pro", it would only seem possible elsewhere, IMO.
If I had any say so, I'd showcase the heck out of Brazill in early preseason, and hope he shines. Then I'd try to get the best player at position of need I can get. (FS or CB, please). Hopefully that player is in a similar "tons o' talent but no opportunity" kinda sitch.
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Good point. I could see him struggling if they tried to line him up in the 'Z'. Wasn't that what happened to Alvin Harper when he went to Tampa?The issue is that people are using the 'Z' receiver and #1 Receiver interchangeably. A lot of people do that, including the experts.
Hilton is not a prototypical 'Z' receiver, but he is most certainly good enough to become our main target.
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I've arrived at the same place on Whalen and Brazill, but doubt either will be wearing horseshoes come 9/7.I like Whalen more than Brazil.
If Rogers runs his routes more precisely, he has the edge over Moncrief since he played in the offense last year.
Regardless, we've built a stud factory at WR.
And yes, stud factory is an apt description.
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I get where you are coming from. I disagree. It sounds to me like you are demanding HOF type production in order to qualify as your #1 WR. TY has already shown to be more productive and more reliable than many through two years.Read my original comment and you will know where I was coming from. There is a difference in receivers. Your go to guys, slot and speedsters. TY falls into the latter.
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Historically, how have most #1 WRs fared in their first two years? Try to dig deeper than AJ Green, Megatron or Julio Jones for your answer, please. And guys like Jerry Rice don't fall into the "most #1s" category.5 TDs does not make a #1 receiver.
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So according to your definition, what was Marvin Harrison? TY has put up similar numbers for year 2, and proved pretty clutch down the stretch last year. It just took him a couple games to adjust to the transition from #2 to #1. He was remarkable in that regard, IMOThe #1 producing receiver changes from game to game depending on the defenses faced. If Luck starts to get the time needed to go through his progressions different receivers will have that ability. The #1 receiver is the one you go to when you have to have the catch made. Wayne was far the #1 receiver when he was on the field and will be the same if he is out there. Nicks has the talent but we will wait to see if he comes to play. If we learned anything from Manning is it is a different receiver who gets the attention according to the coverage. We may have games where the Tight Ends will be the most producing. Production does not mean being a #1 WR.
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Yeah, my bet is that we see a ton of Brazill early in preseason, then see him get traded in exchange for filling a position of greater need.My guess is Brazil gets traded.
And I think we'll see Whalen become a victim of final cuts, most likely ending his NFL career. I've changed my opinion of Griff in the last year, and have come to love the guy's heart... but there is now too much talent at the position, and I just don't anticipate the team keeping 6.
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I guess I think it is unreasonable to decide that the 2013 draft was bad already. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard professional football coaches and GMs reiterate that, other than the rare gem, players on the D front 7 or anyone on the OLine, simply take time to develop.Because it's a hell of a lot less fun to hang around here when the end argument to every single disagreement is "well you're not a coach/scout/GM so you don't know what you're talking about and you're and *."
If that's what every debate around here is gonna end, the way it always does, what is the point? If you dare disagree with something around here THIS is the argument that gets shouted at you.
Despite the fact that coaches play bad players (satele) GMs draft bad players (justin Anderson) GMs sign bad players (winston justice) and GMs make bad trades (Jerry Hughes for Shepard)
And in all honesty, the people questioning this draft are not at all being unreasonable. Our 2013 draft, so far, has been one of the least helpful in recent history. 2 of the 7 players taken didn't even make the final 53. 2 of the remaining 5 were signed away after we bounced them to and from the practice squad. We traded up to take a guy whose production wasn't even pedestrian. We took a guy who was a healthy scratch most of the season DESPITE injuries at his position and the fact that we needed help. The remaining two showed some flashes of both good, and truly awful in their limited playing time.
It's ok not to agree with every move and decision the team makes. Most people around here don't get that. Some people around here go willfully out of their way to ignore some of our less prosperous decisions.
Assuming for a second that there is wisdom in that thinking, the only player last year who truly disappointed was Boyett. And only then, because he was a knucklehead, not because he couldn't play.
Add in injuries, and getting thrust into playing foreign positions, and I think last year's class was showing some genuine promise.
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Gotta go with Tony Washington. Luck won't be the only architect on the team if Tony makes the cut (I know, HIGHLY unlikely).
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It seems like a common thought... that a GM can get any UDFA they want. But it is far from accurate.but I agree we could have got Ulrick as an UDFA...
Grigs might actually have had a couple of the UDFAs the Colts signed higher on his draft board than Ulrich John... but they may have expressed a high level of interest in the Colts... where John may have indicated that he'd choose to go elsewhere if undrafted.
We just aren't privy to all the stuff that happens behind the scenes, so we just don't know.
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One might say that those "persecuting" the OP are just expressing their opinions, too, and that your post is a "persecution" of their views. Just sayin'.So, I remember this time, long ago, where people had differing opinions, and that was ok.
Its crazy, I know. Some say places like that even exist still today.
Of course, though, that is all a total lie, and I'm adding nothing with this funny little anecdote, so let's get back to persecuting the OP for his opinion.
Has anyone seen my pitchfork?
This place is a seriously sad mess these days.
I haven't watched any college football this past year, so I have no information with which to form my own opinion...
I certainly understand the feeling of investment in my favorite team. I have been more engaged in "evaluating" prospects in the past (pre parenthood). I also get that scouts and GMs are hardly infallible.
However, I don't quite get the logic of suggesting that fans or media types know better than the scouting departments of all 32 teams combined.
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I am happy. I was never sold that DQ was anything resembling a long term answer at ILB. Jackson brings risk, for sure, but he brings an attitude that this D hasn't seen for a LONG time. IMO, he will be starting by year end, and will make the entire D front look better for it.
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I guess that would fall under the category of "your friends" or "your acquaintances", and not "Colts fans", then. Just sayin'.Sorry, i was just talking about personal conversations (not including this forum). I think most of us here can see his value/contributions to our team.
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I haven't seen anything like that, and am curious. Can you provide a link or offer a source?I've came across a many that seemed perfectly fine with giving- up on him. They wanted to throw him under a bus/ or kick him to the curb for the next BIG THING/TOY. I'm thrilled he's a colt and i predict he retires one.
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If this discussion is open to any QB in history, and we're talking about betting a house...
That has to be Art Schlichter, no?
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As it stands right now, I really doubt all 3 will make the team. I'd be curious to see stats on how often the Colts have started seasons with more than 5 WRs on the roster. I don't think it's been common, and would guess it usually involves a key player starting the season with an injury (could be the case with RW)
Anyway, I suspect if Grigs drafts a WR next week (really don't think he will), I guarantee one of the OP's trio will be gone, and possibly 2.
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For whatever it's worth, unless one of the top three gets dinged up, there probably won't be enough touches for DR to have a "great" year.Quoted for truth. He has been a surprising pick up for us and there is so much potential there. I'm hoping for a great year for Da'Rick and more of those crazy catches and broken tackle TD runs.
I'm excited about his potential, happy to hear he seems to be showing signs of growing up, and hopeful that he'll use this next year to mature as a player. The team will need him once RW decides to hang up his cleats, and I hope he develops into something special by then.
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It would stand to reason then that there must also be unknown knowns... things we don't even realize that we know!"There are known knowns and there are known unknowns. But there are also unknown unknowns; things we don't know that we don't know."- Gin Rummy
Now this is getting interesting...
I think. ?
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Seriously? Good repair? I was only a freshman in HS the last time I was there, but there were grapefruit and melon sized rust holes in girders, and concrete abutments were visibly crumbling to the point of exposed rebar. I wasn't an architect then, but still knew enough to know that wasn't good.I think the stadium was actually in good repair and safe at the time. Irsay had a deal on the stadium from Maryland that had further upgrades and improvements in it . As I said in previous posts, Irsay had one of the best deals in the NFL in 1981. Because he brutally leveraged Baltimore against Jacksonville, Memphis, Phoenix, and Indy , the last deal Baltimore had on the table was the best of the remaining three. In the end, I guess it was Irsay's choice , but my point is it wasn't the fans fault, and Baltimore politicians weren't totally turning their backs to Irsay's demands . I think some of his more legitimate gripes were some of the seat sight lines, which could have been fixed, and the lack of skyboxes, which were becoming more important at the time. Extra renovations could have corrected that.
What you guys sometimes miss, is how Irsay 's constant threats of moving to different city's year after year since 1974, helped contribute to the paranoid mindset of some Maryland politicians that led to the stupid Eminent Domain legislative proposal. It was certainly a perfect storm.
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All fair enough. As for the shame: maybe Bob Irsay should feel some, maybe the B'more and Maryland politicians should feel some... heck, maybe even Indy and Indiana politicians should... but Indy fans? Not a chance. We didn't cause any of it.I don't mean to be exhausting, and it has nothing to do with sour grapes . It's about putting a more full historical context to things, rather than the quick Wiki responses of some forum members, not necessarily you , or some of the others. We have all given some facts, and also mixed in some of our opinions and interpretations. There is nothing wrong with that, and makes for good debate. I'm sorry that the old cliches like get over it, bitterness, and sour grapes don't cut it with me. This story is very complex , and the reasons for it happening are a study in both sports and business. Like I've said, I don't let Baltimore off the hook either. I'm not trying to be repetitive either, but some new young Turks want to test my knowledge of the subject, which is fine. I'm also content to talk about draft issues, next NFL season, or any interesting topic. I like to believe I'm one of the more fair and balanced people in Baltimore about the move. I just think some Indy people want to put it all on Baltimore, because at some level, there is some shame on how the move went down. I know I'm not comfortable about how we got the Browns.
I am aware of the entire history, I embrace all of it, I am entitled to celebrate all of it, and your interpretation of events don't entitle you to take any of it away from me or anyone else.
It is Colt history AND Baltimore history, not either or.
And strangely enough, I don't recall anyone posting anything close to "I bet Old Crow doesn't know about this...". No testing from my re-reads.
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I went to a couple games there myself, and liked it. Doesn't mean it was in good repair, or safe for players or fans. It definitely needed repairs badly. I was only a very young kid, and could see that. It was set up better for watching baseball, anyway.Let me make a couple of other points about Memorial Stadium. Many of you in Indy call our old stadium crap, but many of us liked it, and had many fun memories there. It was named for our proud veterans of World War 2. In a survey of the worst five stadiums of the 1980's , Memorial Stadium wasn't even in there . The stadiums listed were Three Rivers , Riverfront, the astroDome, Fulton County, and Veterans Stadium. You still have Oakland's Stadium still around, and Soldier and Lambeau Field were older than dirt. But what you did not see in all these other places was a greedy owner hammering a city for every dollar . The stadium eventually needed to be replaced, but it was one of the worst economic times in the city. However, when you are an absentee owner from Chicago, and it's all about the money, who cares about the community or fans? All these other places had less than optimal stadiums, but they weren't going from city to city offering their team for sale, then demanding that the sad sack local fans fill the stadium at the same time!
And regardless of the reasons you don't approve of Irsay's choice to move the team, it was none the less his choice. Not Baltimores.
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Oy, but you are exhausting. I don't question your knowledge of history. It doesn't substantively differ from mine or others. But at some point, you have a vantage point, a perspective, a position you want to support. Others come from a different perspective, and yours is no more right than theirs.I was there at the last game of the Colts in Baltimore, and most of the other ones, as I still am with the Ravens. Great, we both have Season Tickets and attend a lot of games, but others couldn't. We both get cookies for being great fans.
Look, we had a drop off in attendance when we were down, as did Indianapolis. Our attendance was all sellouts from 58-71, and attendance was, or near sellouts from 73-78. You and others focus on the last six years when we still averaged 43,000 fans, in a 54,000 stadium. Indianapolis was never subjected to an owner going from city to city offering his team for sale for the highest bidder. What do you think that does to fan morale and attendance ? You never had your owner attend a love in at Jacksonville Stadium when your team was still in your city. You never had an owner that salary dumped your best players like Bert Jones or Rodger Carr, despite having a generous deal by Baltimore as indicated in my last post. You never had an owner trade someone like John Elway for basically nothing. You can go on and on, but Baltimore fans did the best they could under trying circumstances. So really, we're talking six years out of 30 with the Baltimore Colts, followed by years of straight sellouts by the Ravens since 1996. Can you really tell me that was a good reason to pull the plug.
Additionally, had Irsay not been an absentee owner, which he was, and put forth a good faith effort with local politicians and fans, I believe he would have eventually gotten a new stadium. If you examine why Modell left Cleveland, and why Irsay left Baltimore, it appears the same , but is like night and day. Being a Clevelander, Modell helped Cleveland by taking on the stadium lease, keeping it downtown, helping to keep the Indians, etc. He did things for the community that cost him money, while Irsay was only interested in his own bottom line. Modell got into financial trouble and always regretted his move, Irsay never gave it a second thought. Modell was wrong leaving Cleveland and it's fans, but he got himself over his head trying to help the city of Cleveland, which he eventually hurt. Irsay had no sense of community in Baltimore, and was looking to sell to the highest bidder from the beginning. Eminent Domain was the excuse and big lie Chernoff cooked up, but the real truth was as always, follow the money !
You want to interpret motives behind actions, but somehow imagine your perspective doesn't color your interpretations? Really?
As I said a year ago, quit eating the sour grapes.
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