Lennon1940
-
Posts
183 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by Lennon1940
-
-
Now we’re talking! We’re gonna win this game.
-
That was unpleasant to watch
-
3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:
The only thing that is ridiculous is some of your takes.
Wilson was good for one season, after he transferred to a better program, that does not make him a great college Qb.
Keenum was not great in college, I don't care how many yards he put up in that gimmick offense at Houston.
You obviously did not watch Dak in college, he was not great.
Garoppolo was good in FCS, that's all.
Carr was at Fresno State, not a good conference, that's why I said maybe.
Darnold again was not great during his two seasons, spout all the yards you want, but he was not great.
Trubisky, one season does not make a great college QB.
Dalton, see Keenum.
Regardless of whether you think their stats qualify them as great college QB’s, they were all better than JB.
and none of this means JB won’t be good. It just means he’ll be an outlier if he is.
-
3 hours ago, Cynjin said:
NFL Starting QB Great College QB?
Ryan Fitzpatrick No
Josh Allen No
Sam Darnold No
Jimmy Garoppolo No
Andy Dalton No
Case Keenum No
Kyler Murray Yes
Lamar Jackson Yes
Jameis Winston Yes
Marcus Mariota Yes
Joe Flacco No
Nick Foles No
Mitch Trubisky No
Derek Carr Maybe
Eli Manning Yes
Matthew Stafford Yes
Cam Newton Yes
Carson Wentz Yes, but in FCS
Baker Mayfield Yes
Deshaun Watson Yes
Kirk Cousins No
Dak Prescott No
Jacoby Brissett No
Ben Roethlisberger Yes, in the MAC
Russell Wilson No
Jared Goff Yes
Patrick Mahomes Maybe
Philip Rivers Yes
Aaron Rodgers Maybe
Matt Ryan Yes
Tom Brady No
Drew Brees Yes
I believe you need to re-evaluate your definition of virtually all. It's closer to 50/50.
Holy crap. Dude. Some of your "No's" are ridiculous.
Russell Wilson - 13,141 total yards, 133 TD's, 191.8 QBR, (set the ALL-TIME national record for QBR, only passed by Mayfield recently)
Keenum - 20,114 total yards, 178 TD's, 160.6 QBR (the current ALL-TIME national leader for passing yards and touchdowns)
Dak Prescott - 11,897 total yards, 114 TD's, 151.0 QBR (third in SEC history for total yards)
Garoppolo - 13,156 yards, 118 TD's, 168.3 QBR (National FCS Quarterback of the Year)
Carr - 13,033 yards, 118 TD's, 156.3 QBR
Darnold - 7,561 yards, 64 TD's in just two seasons, 153.7 QBR
Trubisky - 4,056 yards, 35 TD's his only season as a starter, 157.6 QBR
Dalton - 11,925 yards, 93 TD's, 166.5 QBR
Now let's look at what a non-great, but average, QB looks like in college
Brissett - 6,625 total yards, 58 TD's, 131.3 QBR
Best season: 3,135 total yards, 26 TD's, 136.7 QBR
-
22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:
Lot's of guys with incredible talent and gaudy college stats and awards have failed in the NFL as starting QB's. Here's a few (leaving out some famous flameouts) -
JP Losman
David Greene
Pat White
Brady Quinn
David Klingler
Jim Druckenmiller
Dan McGwire
Rick Mirer
Pat Sullivan
Kelly Stouffer
Tim Couch
Andre Ware
Heath Shuler
Danny Wuerffel
Ty DetmerIt seems the odds may be just as good The Colts 3rd string QB eventually makes it on this list as much as Daniel Jones and Jacoby Brissett become mediocre and unsuccessful, as you put it.
Time will tell.
Good grief if I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times in this thread: most great college QB’s are never starting QB’s in the NFL, but virtually all starting QB’s in the NFL were great college QB’s.
So all of those guys you’ve listed have absolutely nothing to do with the topic we’re discussing.
-
48 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:
So you're saying Daniel Jones will also be mediocre in 3 years too (if not explain the difference?)
There’s a good chance he will be. The odds are against him being successful. Just like JB’s odds.
-
8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
So astounding that he had to leave North Carolina State to go play at Wisconson.
LOL. You think he left NC State because he wasn’t good enough? He left because they were being punks about him wanting to sign a professional baseball contract and it * him off. Wisconsin gladly gave him the opportunity to do both.
Brissett’s the one who transferred because he couldn’t get the starting gig, but Wilson.
-
1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:
No. You didn't blow it out of the water. You pointed to one guy out of four. That's not exactly blowing anything out of the water.
No. He was NOT an average quarterback. But he IS a better QB in the NFL than he was in college. Let's not turn him into something he wasn't. He was taken 75th. Few teams saw this career that he's had. So he IS a better pro quarterback than he was a college QB.
No. I'm pretty sure I blew the erroneous assertion lumping Wilson's career in with Brady and Warner out of the water. Again, Wilson set the ALL-TIME record for QBR in a single season.
And stating that Wilson was a better pro than college QB is entirely irrelevant as regards Brissett because Wilson's starting point was as an outstanding college QB, whilst Brissett's starting point in the NFL was as a dude who only averaged 203 yards per game in college.
Let's just all hope we've won the lottery and he bucks the overwhelming odds and is a Brady or Warner, otherwise we aren't winning jack squat in the postseason with him as QB.
-
1 hour ago, fahlman said:
Matt Ryan was the 3rd pick and the first quarterback taken in the 2008 draft. He was named the ACC Offensive Player of the Year and the ACC Player of the Year in 2007, his senior season. He was awarded the 2007 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, given annually to the nation's most outstanding senior quarterback. He won the 2007 Manning Award, awarded to the nation's top quarterback. He finished in seventh place in the Heisman Trophy voting in 2007.
Some people have a weird sense of what constitutes a very good QB in college and an average one.
Saying that Ryan and Brissett were even remotely similar in college is laughable. Ryan’s senior year he literally had 1900 more passing yards than Brissett did. Ryan was 3rd nationally that year in passing yards.
So it really boils down to Brady and Warner being the outliers over the past 20 years. And I do think we’re underselling Brady a little bit too. He wasn’t elite but he was absolutely better than average. He was 17th nationally in QBR his senior year (Brissett was 64th).
-
1
-
-
Perhaps we should have waited until he actually earned something in a game before giving all that to him. That cap hit looks terrible.
-
10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
Jim Harbaugh only threw for 2729 Yards with 10 TD's and 11 INT's his senior at Michigan. Look how he played for us in 1995 and 1996 though. We should've been in the SB in 1995 and in 96 we made the playoffs.
That was almost 35 years ago. You can't compare today's stats to that era. He was third in Heisman voting and those 2,729 yards set a Michigan passing record that stood until 2002. He also held the national career record for passer rating for 12 years.
In other words, Harbaugh set national records as a college quarterback. Brissett didn't rank in the top 50 in any QB stat in college.
-
Dear baby Jesus can we just play some football already?
-
1
-
-
6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:
Poster @jvan1973 had this list.... Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Russell Wilson. That's four in the last 25 years. With three of them in the last 20 years.
This again? C'mon bro, did you miss the post where I blew the idea completely out of the water that Wilson was an average college QB?
I'll post it again:
Russell Wilson put up 3,998 total yards (11th nationally) and 37 TD’s his junior year. He had 3,287 total yards and 35 TD’s his sophomore year. He ended his college career with 6,516 more total yards and 75 (yes, seventy-five) more TD’s than Brissett.
Russell Wilson's senior year he was NUMBER ONE nationally in QBR. Luck was 5th that same year fwiw. Brissett's senior year he was SIXTY-FOURTH. Out of 130 D-1 programs, that's pretty much exactly average. I'd argue being ranked No.1 out of 130 is anything but average.
Wilson was an elite college QB. Stop this nonsense.
-
1
-
-
37 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:
Come on now...
What did all those awards get Tony Romo? Undrated. The entire NFL took a pass on him.
The Cowboys got him as a free agent. So, he's a great example of someone who improved as a pro over what he was in college. He exceeded ALL expectations.
And most of the NFL was not sold on Russell Wilson. Props to Seattle for seeing his potential, but he was drafted 75th. I think Philly liked him too. But the list of teams who thought Wilson would turn into something is short. It's not unreasonable to say he has also exceeded the expectations of most...
But this whole conversation even taking place kind of proves my point. We’re arguing about whether 1 or 2 guys were great in college. 1 or 2 guys. That shows just how uncommon it is.
How many average starting QB’s have their been in just the past 20 years? Plenty. Yet we’re debating 1 or 2 guys. ALL of the rest were excellent in college. His odds of being a good starting QB are probably like 100 to 1 according to statistics.
-
11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:
Ok, I'll tell the whole story. Brissett was a true Freshman at U of F and backup to Brantley and ahead of Driskel in 2011. He was recruited there by Charlie Weis, who ran a pro set O. However, Weis left for Kansas HC job for 2012, and JB started the first game for the Gators in 2012. Driskel was named the starter thereafter, Muschamp citing his legs/mobility gave them an extra dimension their developing O needed. JB did move on, and Driskel got hurt in 2013, came back and stunk. Had to go to to Louisiana Tech for 2015-
Driskel's stats 2012 -2014 at U of F-
Year GP Cmp Att Pct Yards TDs Int
2012 12 156 245 63.7 1,646 12 5
2013 3 42 61 68.9 477 2 3
2014 9 114 212 53.8 1,140 9 10
2015 13 279 448 62.3 4,026 27 8
JB
2012 23 35 65.7 249 1 0
2014 221 370 59.7 2,606 23 5
2015 237 395 60.0 2,662 20 6
I can almost guarantee that if Weis didn't leave to be HC at Kansas, JB would have been the Gators QB, not Driskel. Weis talks good things about JB to this very day. I Never hear a peep about Driskel from him. JB's stats are much better than Driskel after he left U of F too, and he was drafted in round 3 where Driskel was taken in round 6. Now the Bengals are trying Driskel in the WR position (similar to Taysom Hill) while JB is a starting QB.
So he’d have done better as a QB in the SEC than he did in the ACC?
He was going to be a mediocre QB wherever he ended up starting.
-
Bored on a Friday night. Here are your QB's (who are currently NFL eligible) of some past national title games
2017: Deshaun Watson
2016: Jake Coker, Watson
2015: Cardale Jones, Marcus Mariotta
2014: Jameis Winston, Nick Marshall
2013: AJ McCarron, Everett Golson
2012: AJ McCarron, Jordan Jefferson
2011: Cam Newton, Darron Thomas
2010: Colt McCoy, Greg McElroy
2009: Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford
2008: Matt Flynn, Todd Boeckman
2007: Tim Tebow, Troy Smith
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinart
2005: Jason White, Matt Leinart
2004: Jason White, Jamarcus Russell
2003: Craig Krenzel, Ken Dorsey
2002: Eric Crouch, Ken Dorsey
2001: Chris Weinke, Josh Heupel
I'm only seeing six guys who spent extended time as an NFL starting QB and only two who I'd consider to be above average NFL starters (Newton and Watson).
-
4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:
You know what I meant.
Oh absolutely. I wasn't contradicting you. Just making an independent point. There have been a lot of national championship QB's who weren't worth a crap. Pick any Bama QB ever. Although I do think Tua is going to be a legit NFL guy.
-
6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:
If you look back at most elite QB they don’t come from big schools who are in contention for national championships. For instance everyone talks about wanting Lawrence but a lot of pundits say to stay away from them because those schools have so much talent and it’s hard to evaluate a QB.
Well hell, how many teams have routinely been in national championship contention the past decade? 4? 5? Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. There is literally no parity at all in college football. It's gross.
-
2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:
Also how many of these nfl QB who turn out mediocre would of been really good in a organization that has a good structure and brings in talent.
A legitimate point. This might get me put into a mental institute but I've always wondered how much of Brady's success is actually attributable to Tom Brady himself.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:
Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Russell Wilson until his senior year.
Romo won the Walter Peyton award and was the OVC Player of the Year 3 years in a row.
And Russell Wilson? Mediocre except for his senior year? Perhaps you are thinking of someone else.
Russell Wilson put up 3,998 total yards (11th nationally) and 37 TD’s his junior year. He had 3,287 total yards and 35 TD’s his sophomore year. He ended his college career with 6,516 more total yards and 75 (yes, seventy-five) more TD’s than Brissett.
Statistically, Brissett will be a once or twice in a generation anomaly if he has any success whatsoever as an NFL starting QB. I really don’t like his odds.
-
2
-
-
15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:
If we start 0-2, then it may be Kelly time? If we start 2-0 then Brissett has proven himself by winning at LA and at Tennessee.
Jacoby would have to look really bad for him to be benched. I doubt he plays bad enough for that to happen. I doubt he plays overly well either. I suspect he’s going to be what he’s pretty much always been: an average game manager.
-
1 hour ago, J@son said:
Fair enough...and I hadn't realized it was nearly 20 years ago when Romo was in college. Damn getting older is a kick in the butt lol
Ha, you said it. I had that same depressing thought earlier when I was writing that post.
-
47 minutes ago, J@son said:
Tony Romo? Elite might be a little strong in describing him but if he's not truly elite, he was pretty close. And his college numbers were pretty similar to those of Brissett.
Going to have to disagree with you on that. Their stats may look similar, but I compared Jacoby to other starters under 30 for a reason. Romo was in college almost 20 years ago. The offensive game has just changed so much since then.
Take a look at the 2003 Heisman QB candidates:
Jason White - 3,846 yds, 40 TD's
Eli Manning - 3,600 yds, 29 TD's
Matt Leinart - 3,556 yds, 38 TD's
So Romo putting up 3,165 yards passing and 34 TD's back in 2002 was pretty dang good. He won the Walter Payton Award (the D-II Heisman) and was the OVC Player of the Year 3 straight years. So I'd say he was pretty elite given where he was playing.
-
Just now, Stephen said:
Wilson went to NCAA state and transferred to Wisconsin later
That's the second time you've done that. I assume that's on purpose?
Keys to the Titans game
in Colts Football
Posted
AJ Brown had some freaking moves last week. Gotta take him away.
Their defense has the ability to pop JB in the mouth.