YOUR GM
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I'm just worried about Grigson's penchant for going after players with injury red flags. He gambled like this last year with Toler, Bradshaw and Thomas, and got bit in the butt on all 3. He hasn't appeared to learn from it at all. Louis, Costa and Nicks this year. Sure, they're low-risk from a monetary standpoint, but when you lack depth, those acquisitions become more of a necessity to contribute than you would like for a player with a history of missing significant time due to injury
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We dont have a 4th
Our 3rd is basically a 4th. I don't agree with the notion of mortgaging anymore of this draft via trade, however. Especially for an aging (albeit all-pro caliber) player looking for a big payday
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He would be worth it if he wasn't up there in age. To heck with whether or not he fits your scheme. He's been the top guard in the league over the past 3-4 seasons. I hate that teams stubbornly stick to schemes to the point they willingly pass on upgrading significantly in an area of need. But like I said, he's demanding top dollar at an age where it's difficult to get it on more than a 1 or 2 year deal. I understand why teams would pass on trading for him, for that reason only
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Looking around the league, many teams are "letting it ride" currently at the center position. The Packers are expecting Tretter (next pick after Holmes in 2013) to win the job and let EDS walk. The Pats have only (2) 2nd yr. UDFA centers on the roster. The Redskins cut Montgomery and are thus far content to convert Lichtensteiger from G (who played some college center). The 49'ers are rolling with Kilgore and whoever they draft. The Giants have signed J.D. Walton (for more money than you'd expect, I'll add), but stayed out of the more proven center market. Cincinnati has a UDFA from '12 and Mike Pollack as a G/C depth player. The Saints have made several moves despite their cap situation, but haven't lifted a finger on BDLP, with only Lelilito, in the wings.
The Colt's decision to roll with Holmes/Costa at center is hardly unprecedented among contending teams around the league right now. We are in good company.
Great observation. However, I would say in the case of all of the teams you listed, you should take a look at the talent level of the guards surrounding their centers. All-pro names like Sitton, Lang, Zeitler, Whitworth, Grubbs, Evans, Snee, Schwartz, Mankins, Iupati and Boone, allow for those teams to gamble a bit at center, where as I feel we really can't right now. We have major question marks at all 3 interior line positions. An establised vet with quality starts to push one of those positions would've been nice
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Proper coaching, and perhaps a new team could change that.
Grigson seems very high on him.
Grigson being high on someone doesn't exactly hold much stock lately... Especially regarding the offensive line. He was high on Satele and McGlynn at one point as well. Just saying. I hope his hunch is right this time
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Tried to LIKE...GRRR! Too damned early for no likes
I have been 'protecting' Reitz from haters since he came to the Colts
Lol, it's all good. And yeah, Reitz could definitely be a solid starter if he can completely shake his string of injuries. Probably our best pass protector outside of Cherilus
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Nobody? Snort snort...hint hint...
No offense to Nobody....
I was screaming that Reitz should've started at guard over Mcglynn before the season even started. I remember you, in particular, being just as adamant about him playing as well
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Regardless if Louis turns out to be something or not, it's clear Grigson likes to gamble on players with injury red flags. Injuries clearly bit us in the butt last year, so I don't know how I feel about that. Especially with the line being shaky as it is. Both Costa and Louis have health concerns, along with Thomas trying to get back and Reitz being injury plagued as well
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Trent sucked, badly. We all know this... but you need to give it a rest, Modern. You're bordering on stalker level of obsession with this guy right now
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This is pure nonsense. You have no clue what Grigson was seriously intending to do anymore than I do. I'm just going off of what was reported, not speaking on behalf of the GMThere was Never a moment Grigson seriously thought he would be signing Mack.
He knows the drill and you clearly have no clue.
Shipley was better than Satele in 2012, just like Reitz (among others) were better than McGlynn at guard and McGlynn was better than Satele at center last year. What it tells me more than anything is, maybe there were factors that Grigson and staff placed more stock into than production. What they were? I have no clueGee, and so many here thought UDFA Rookie Shipley played fine/better than Satele. How could one Possibly think a 4th round center could be a Good starter in his 2nd year.
!As for Holmes, he played 12 snaps last year.....12! Not saying he can't succeed but the inexperience is a cause for concern. Certainly not a slam dunk by any means
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1) Yeah because the draft is a horrible place to get players for your team.
2) I don't worry about what I can't control. What I do know is this - they have a plan and access to more info than us.
3) Let's specifically reference Mack as that seems to be the crux here. Is it a gamble the way they are trying to build the o'line this year - perhaps. Time will tell. But I would absolutely argue that overpaying for a guy like Mack is just as big a gamble - maybe more. There are consequences to signing him - maybe it means they let Allen or Fleener go in a couple year because of it. There is also the very real possibility that Holmes' play for the value of his cost far exceeds that of overpaying for Mack.
I don't think the notion that they are marginally addressing the line is close to accurate. Again 4 of five potential starters this year where from last year's draft / FA class. There is nothing marginal about that. In fact, that is a radical overhaul. On top of the fact that that they still can draft a player and bring in a spot guy here or there.
4) What if Thomas, Thornton & Holmes make up a solid interior this year? Does Grigson then become a genius?
The hyperbole that you and others post is comical to me. Getting all worked up because the people with the info make a move that you don't agree with is just funny. I fully appreciate a good debate with anyone on here but the over-the-top nonsense makes it hard to take anything you say seriously. Try a much more measured approach - it will instantly give you credibility.
Lastly it forever makes me laugh that contrarians always are touting the "this place is an outlet to voice our opinions of the Indianapolis Colts." Well no kidding. I am not preventing you from your opinions - please keep them coming. And I would never ignore you - your type is what makes this place fun for me.
1) The draft isn't a place to look for an experienced starter on a struggling line, particularly so when your first pick in said draft won't come until right before the 3rd round
2) Cop-out answer. "I'm not a coach and neither are you"
Because no coach or GM has EVER made a poor decision or evaluation of the talent on their roster, right?
3) We didn't have to go after Mack. We could've grabbed any number of starting caliber veteran centers/guards to push Holmes. You bring in starters to push your starters, not backups.
4) Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that he's gambling big time right now, on a unit that many feel needs to be a sure thing this year and going forward in order for the team to be successful
Lastly, I don't care if you don't take me seriously. I'm not here to make friends or impress anyone on here. I don't have to deal with you outside of this forum. I don't even have to deal with you ON this forum, in fact.
It is more telling of your own character that you get some kind of twisted enjoyment out of ridiculing people on here though.... You have fun with that. See you around
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It is what I do...
1) The offseason is not over with yet
2) They invested into the o'line with 4 people last year, with the likelihood or at least the possibility that all 4 will start & play this year
3) Sometimes the best moves you make are the ones that you don't
4) Saying that Pagano & Grigson are not on the same page or appear to not have a plan simply deserves a Dear God...
I know you are one of those contrarians. To know this I need to look no further than your screen name. You call me unoriginal but everytime I get on here all I see is you griping about something. You may be consistent but you are not original either.
1. No, it isn't over yet. But it's looking more and more likely that our only potential upgrade/depth will have to come through the draft with yet another unproven player. I would've liked to have seen an established veteran without injury problems be brought in to push Holmes for starting duties, not another bargain player like Costa is and McGlynn was.
2. Yes they did invest in 4 players last off-season, and I'd be totally fine with having them as our starters with no competition if 3 of those 4 players brought in didn't have serious question marks leading into this coming season. Thomas is still coming back from serious injury, Thornton was wildly inconsistent (while still showing promise) and Holmes basically didn't play. Cherilus is the only player acquired on the line last season that you can truly feel confident about going into this season. For everyone else, the cause for at least a little worry/concern is warranted.
3. I agree. I don't feel that notion is applicable in the case of marginally addressing an offensive line that struggled the last 2 seasons and will be starting 3 players on the interior shrouded in uncertainty, however
4. I admit I am guilty of hyberbole in my comments about Pagano/Grigson, due mainly to frustration. What I meant to say is, Grigson's actions thus far in free agency on offense do not coincide with the mantra of "power run football" in my opinion. Better?
And I'm only considered "contrarian" because posters like you constantly bully anyone who deviates from a blue Kool-Aid mindset. I'm a fan of my team, and when I see something I feel is hindering their evolution, I tend to call it out on here. This place is an outlet to voice our opinions of the Indianapolis Colts. If you don't like my opinions, you're more than welcome to ignore me.
Also, what you think the reason behind me screen name is, and what it ACTUALLY is are 2 different things. Don't assume you have me pegged anymore than I have you pegged
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Yeah I agree. . . that isn't to say that Holmes isn't any good. But whenever you are looking at a giant question mark in the starting lineup the coaching staff always seems to have high praise for the new guy.
Thank you. That's the only point I tried to make
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OR maybe we never were going after Mack or any other C and we knew Holmes was the guy all along.
If you choose to ignore multiple reports saying contrary, sure. Maybe
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What I'm saying is, Pagano is supporting his player and GM after it was clear a push for a proven center wasn't going to happen this free agency. Lets not pretend Grigson wasn't asking around about Alex Mack. The reports were out. They were at least willing to bring in a veteran pro bowl center if it was a realistic option. I think Holmes may have been his backup plan, but do I think it was his main plan all along to start a center who has only played 12 snaps as a pro (none at center)? Heck no.ok ok ok.... so you think that Pagano knows Holmes is not very good but is just saying he is because we didnt sign someone better?????
maybe... just maybe... we didn't sign another C (besides Costa) because we actually think Holmes IS good.
I think Holmes can be a quality starter but to act like there's no question marks surrounding him, and that Pagano isn't giving a certain degree of lip service by talking him up right now, is silly.
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Or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe they weren't agressive at upgrading the position because they're genuinely optomistic about Holmes.
That very well may be the truth. I hope it is, and that their optimism isn't misplaced, for the sake of the offense
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Dear God...
Original. We don't have enough condescending * personas around here
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Because sometimes "daddy's love" clouds his judgement on business matters. Which is partially why we had to sit through watching Satele, McGlynn, Richardson and DHB stink it up last year (when there were more capable players sitting behind them who could've contributed sooner) until the owner all but called the coaching staff out and forced a change. That's why it bothers meExcept he believed that "Pagano-ism" at the time. As did many of us, as did much of the media who thought we screwed over the Browns in the trade, as did our GM who made the trade.
From what I've gathered on Pagano is he loves all his players and he's kind of like a parent bragging about his kids. I think for the most part he believes what he says but we must take it with a grain of salt.
Why does it bother you so much?
Stop trying to be everyone's friend and just coach..
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I'm guessing he was answering questions. I highly doubt he was running around singing his praises without being asked about it. I'm sure a lot of questions were raised about the center position
That's a fair assumption. We don't know the context of what was asked or how it was asked. I guess I still have too many "Pagano-isms" fresh in my memory that turned out to be a load of crock
"..A rolling ball of butcher knives"
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What the fun do you expect him to say, "Khaled Holmes is a piece of %. I can't believe Grigson screwed me over by not signing a proven center!"?
Part of a coaches job is to blow smoke up the medias butt, especially when he's talking about his players. Get used to it.
So coach speak, basically. Thank you
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I tend to wait and see. I haven't seen the kid play or practice, Pagano has.
I will as well. Still doesn't change the fact that the timing of this comes off self-serving, regardless of whether or not Holmes plays well
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Have you been watching his off season workouts, or are you speaking from total speculation?
You know it's coach speak, but keep lying to yourself if you need to. I'm not saying Holmes won't be good, I just think the timing of his sudden praise is mighty convenient
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It's so self-serving. Nothing but lip service. We didn't hear a peep about Holmes from Pagano all last year, now he's raving about the guy. I also tend to not put much stock in anything Pagano says. He overhypes everybody we draft, sign and trade for initially. My guess is, he's probably just playing good solider and speaking positive of Holmes because Grigson didn't make an aggressive push to upgrade the center position through free agency
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Of course he is. Lol
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Grigs Expects Lance Louis to Compete for Starting Job
in Colts Football
Posted
All fair points. I can't disagree with that. Thomas' quad/bicep injuries were freak occurrences, and definitely could not have been predicted or prevented. In the case of Bradshaw and Toler, however, I think the red flags were there before we signed them. Both had durability issues long before signing with us, and in the case of Toler, we gave him a significant contract despite having knowledge of his history. I'll say Grigson learned from last season in the sense that he didn't OVERpay for those players with injury red flags like he did last year. He deserves credit for that much, at least