Mouthfire
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Posts posted by Mouthfire
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^ This.
Just cause we draft names you haven't heard of or people you don't like doesn't mean it's a bad draft. How many of us wanted Dwayne Allen after we picked Fleener, or ever heard of TY Hilton? Two studs, many didn't like those picks at the time, but how quick the tune changed over the season. Wait it out, I trust our talent evaluators enough to not disagree with any pick (besides a QB).
Exactly. Unless you're playing a skills position that gets your hands on the ball, it's really hard to be a known name to the fanbase unless you're from a big program. Case in point: Barrett Jones. Probably overrated by the fans because he's a known name from a big program. In reality, probably not that good.
There are good trench players from lesser known programs. You're just not going to know their names.
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Fans never like it when their teams draft offensive linemen. It's just not "sexy"... and apart from a few big names, you don't know who they are.
This is an absolute beast of a draft to me. Our offensive line just got bigger, more athletic, and a lot meaner. There isnt anything about this draft that you shouldn't like.
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There is a reason for that, I am not going into that right now. With that said, not day 1 starters.
Hmmmm... Troll? Yes, me thinks so.
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This is the point that I would not mind a WR. 3rd and 4th round is the sweet spot for WR's this year.
Other than that, another CB would be nice. Maybe another DT or offensive lineman.
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I don't know if he's a troll, but I also see no logic in his opinions. But that's okay, he's a glass mostly empty type of guy.
I thought I was being realistic last season by expecting us to win about 4 games. I was happy to be so wrong. Grigson has shown me he knows what he's doing.
But I will say I don't know much about this guy. What makes people think he's going to be better than say Anderson, who is bigger and came from a better program, playing better competition?
Well probably the fact that most draftniks had Anderson projected to be a 7th rounder or even undrafted.
It seems pretty universal that Thornton is viewed as a 3rd-4th round pick.
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I say trade up for Barkley, develop and trade him in 2 years, then start a tradition of having multiple picks that we keep trading for future picks until that one great draft happens, ala the Patriots...
Eh... screw the Patriots. I actually want players that we can use.
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No Hilton and Dwayne was picked for need. What I was trying to say was that there is exceptions to that rule, A. Beatha, A foster, D, Freeney are few of the examples of this.
There are waaaay too many 3rd rounders and on, turning into starters, not depth.
When it's that common, by definition... that's not an exception.
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Put this another way. If you believe that grigson did well if FA then our stopping Werner from sliding out of the 1st round was a want. If Grigson messed up his FA pick=ups, then Werner was a need.
Again, that statement makes no sense. You can't fix everything in free agency.
That kind of viewpoint turns you into the Washington Redskins of yesteryear. Albert Haynesworth, anyone?
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The only glaring need I saw was a pass-rusher. That was absolutely untouched in free agency. With the way FA went, they could pretty much go BPA for anything else.
I'm just glad an elite pass-rusher fell in our lap.
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Who was he going to get in FA?
Kruger appears to be a 1 hit wonder and is certainly no guarantee. Freeney showed he didnt fit this defense at all. Avril looked like a decent player but is really a 4-3 DE.
Dumervil appeared to be a Bronco before the whole fax fiasco....Abraham, Osi are both 4-3 DEs and on the downside of their career. Basically the same thing as Freeney.
Not sure who you expected him to go get. Id take Werner over just about all of those guys with the exception of Dumervil.
Yeah, I'd also take Werner over just about anyone you mentioned.
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Did not say that. usually after 2nd rd, you are looking for depth. With that said, there have been players taken or overlooked for some reason that can step in on day 1 and start.
No, you're not. You're looking for good players, period. I don't think TY Hilton or Dwayne Allen were picked for depth. Also, Antoine Bethea heavily disapproves of your comment.
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That makes no sense. Are you saying Grigson messed up by not singing Avril?
Avril is a bit overrated, IMO...
Actually, I don't think ANY of cgawkers comments make any sense.
So if we need a pass rusher in the draft, we messed up FA? How about guard, CB, WR, RB, or any particular position? If we need any of those, we messed up FA too? That's just a nonsensical statement.
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Doubt it..
Bwuahahah.... you ain't seen nothin' yet....
*flexes 5 inch pythons*
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Here's his Scout Bio from ESPN.com He had a low 3rd round/high 4th round grade for them.
Overall Football TraitsProduction 1 2009: (7/7) ROT 2010: (13/8) OG2011: (11/10) OG 2012: (11/10) LOT
Height-Weight-Speed 2 Good blend of height, weight and top-end speed. Has longer arms (34.1') and big hands (10).
Durability 3 Missed 2012 Penn State game with a knee injury. Missed 2011 Wisconsin and Michigan games with a knee injury.
Intangibles 4 Two-time Idaho State heavyweight wrestling champion and finished third in Ohio. Moved to Jamaica with mother and sisters after parents divorced. Moved in with father when he was 12. Visited mother for Christmas break that year. Mother and eight-year old sister found murdered in early January, 2004. Walked in on the scene. Strained relationship with father who spent time in prison in the 90s and twice placed with foster family. Thornton has also has some run-ins with law. Arrested following a fight at a bar in September of 2010. Admitted using someone else's ID to get into the bar. 2009 arrest for unlawful consumption of alcohol by a minor. Didn't play in the first quarter of the 2012 Wisconsin game and reason needs to be investigated further.
1 = EXCEPTIONAL2 = ABOVE AVERAGE3 = AVERAGE4 = BELOW AVERAGE5 = MARGINALOffensive Guard Specific TraitsPass Protection 3 Above average upside. Quick and above average lateral mobility. Heavy hands and can knock edge rushers off course with powerful punch. Strong and big enough to hold ground at top of set. Effective cut blocker that can keep defensive lineman's hands down. Above average balance and flashes the ability to overcome sub-par footwork but footwork needs a lot of work. Doesn't always get enough depth with kick step and can get beat around the corner when lines up at tackle. Moves well but can get caught flat footed when edge rushers redirect inside. Vulnerable to speed to power.
Run Blocking 3 Takes too many false steps. Struggles to sustain at times. Doesn't always keep hips under him and hands can slide outside defender's frame. But above average upside here as well. Strong and can move defenders off the ball when keeps pads downs. Quick and athletic enough to develop into an above average zone blocker and can cover up linebackers at the second level. Above average range when asked to pull.
Awareness 4 Appears unsure of run blocking assignments at times. Late recognizing blitz. and can be too quick to commit to defenders in pass protection making him vulnerable to delayed blitzes. However, appears to show better awareness in pass protection late in the season.
Toughness 1 Aggressive mauler that blocks to the whistle and can get under defender's skin but doesn't appear to be a hothead prone to personal foul calls. Always looking for someone to hit and uncoils on linebackers at the second level. Looks to deliver kill shot when ever gets a chance to blind side defender in space or help guard out when no one comes to him in pass protection.
1 = EXCEPTIONAL2 = ABOVE AVERAGE3 = AVERAGE4 = BELOW AVERAGE5 = MARGINALYeah, I like that part. That's exactly what our O line needs.
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Man if we'd gone
1. Rhodes
3. Montgomery or Lemonier
I don't know. I kinda like our real draft better.
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Thornton (6-foot-3 1/4, 320) made 35 starts for the Illini, seeing time at both guard and tackle. He was Illinois' starting left tackle as a senior, although left guard will be Thornton's best NFL fit. He has 34 1/8-inch arms and ran 5.11 in Indy with 27 reps on the bench, so Thornton has athleticism, length, and strength -- and he plays nasty. Thornton's mother and sister were murdered in 2004 while he slept next door, and NFL scouts believe he takes out his internal anger on the field. Thornton could push Mike McGlynn for the right guard job.
Yep he plays nasty
That won't be so hard. *I* could probably beat McGlynn for the spot.
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Anything to help protect Luck is a plus.
Projected O-line
LT: Castonzo
LG: Thomas
OC: Satele
RG: Thornton
RT: Cherlius
Put in Shipley for Satele, and I can live with that. ;)
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How is everyone else better? We upgraded our pass rush. By all accounts:
1st round - Bjorn Werner (OLB)
2nd round - Vontae Davis (CB)
That's a pretty darn good draft, so far.
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WRONG...It doesn't matter what they are paying Walden, Werner is superior in every way...When they signed Walden they never dreamed Werner would be there..Walden will get plenty of run though; they will rotate in and out and stay fresh...The best player will start and Werner is the best player.
I can't believe I'm actually going to say this, but I actually agree with Jshipp
Walden may have starter money, but it doesn't mean he's going to be the starter. The Walden signing is the same as the DHB signing, which is the same as the Toler signing, .... they are all insurance policies, in case we can't get someone else better in the draft. The way the contracts are structured, they might was well be one year contracts with the option to retain for further years. They can ALL be cut pretty cheaply after the first year, if we don't want them at all.
So yeah... Jshipp's correct. If Bjorn is better, he's starting over Walden, which I think will happen.
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And about the WR's. This is one year that I would NOT take a 1st round WR. Apart from maybe Tavon Austin, none of these guys are that particularly special. There is really no real, noticeable difference between the next 12-15 WR's. You could reasonable get a 2nd round talent in the 4th round.
For these reasons, you are absolutely crazy if you think RB/WR are even remotely as important as OLB/DE/CB (and I'll throw in OL).... particularly this year....
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How about SB wins in the past decade? Who exactly were those RB's?
Pats: Kevin Faulk
Bucs: Michael Pittman
Pats: Faulk
Pats: Faulk
Steelers: Jerome Bettis
Colts: Joseph Addai/Rhodes
Giants: Bradshaw/Jacobs
Steelers: Mendanhall
Saints: Reggie Bush
Packers:James Starks
Giants: Bradshaw/Jacobs
Not exactly elite RB's, are they?
The point being.... running backs really aren't that important nowadays. It's actually waaaaay more likely that you win the SB if you DON'T have a 1st round running back. It's been like that more more than a decade.
If you really want a good running game (which IS still important), you invest in a good offensive line and get a serviceable-to-good running back in the later rounds.
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CB? DE and OLB I agree with you. CB, no. Five out of the ten highest paid CBs are on teams that didn't make the playoffs last year. Horrible investment if you ask me. Rule changes have crippled CB and S play.
RB? Eight of the eleven leading rushers last year played on playoff teams. Seems like there are still teams running the ball with success.
Baltimore had the 17th ranked D. They wear the ring. And the 49ers, who ranked third during the season gave up 31, 24, and 34 points in the playoffs/SB. No 85 Bears or Steel Curtain there.
10 of the top 16 teams in total offense made the playoffs. 8 of the top 16 in total defense.
I think QB is the important position in football. The rest, all the others, fall somewhere far below that position. I understand football just fine. And nowhere did I say RB or WR were more important than CB/DE/OLB. But I do know that Lacy is a RB , has been his whole playing life. I also know Werner has played football for five total years in his life, and never OLB. And yet I still love the pick.
Yeah… about those playoff running backs…
Ben Jarvis Green Ellis – Undrafted
Arian Foster – Undrafted
Vick Ballard – 5th round pick
Ray Rice – 2nd round pick
Adrian Peterson – 1st round pick
James Starks – 6th round
Alfred Morris – 6th round
Marshawn Lynch – 1st round
Stephen Ridley – 3rd round
Knowshown Moreno – 1st round
Frank Gore – 3rd round
Michael Turner – 5th round
Only three 1st round running backs (out of 12) in the playoffs last year. And how did those 1st round running backs do?
How about one playoff win between the three of them?
Adrian Peterson – No playoff wins
Marshawn Lynch – One playoff win
Knowshown Moreno – No playoff wins
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Or maybe he, like many others, think that as nice a back as Ballard is, there is room for improvement at that position, like several others on the current Colts roster. And for many teams who drafted late yesterday, the 'best' available player at certain positions remained available. The Texans landed the WR many considered the best available, most NFL ready. Colts got the DE who many thought was the best. Many had Floyd as the best DT. And the 'best' RB and WR were still on the board when the Colts were on the clock. That wasn't true at CB, G, or T.
I'm not suggesting Gruden isn't as crazy as a loon, but he was involved in coaching from 1986 to 2008, and then remained active in the industry through his media gig. The point I was trying to make is that those who feel that considering a RB, or WR even, means people don't understand football is as ludicrous to me as taking a RB at 24 would have been to those who disliked that idea. There were many who understood why WR, RB, OL would have been as beneficial as CB, DE, OLB. Again, the joy of drafting 24th after a playoff season with all signs pointed to years of continued success.
If you think WR/RB is as important as CB/DE/OLB in today's NFL, then you really don't understand football.
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Like Jon Gruden? He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock. Kiper agreed that RB could be considered. Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB. Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/). It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL. The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing. More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility. I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR.
Yeah, sure. I think I'll skip over Gruden's opinion...
It's particularly telling when NO ONE took a flyer on Lacy in the 1st round, particularly the GB Packers, who have easily have a bigger need at RB than almost anyone else.
Yeah, I think I'll skip Chucky's opinion.... Lacy's really a 2nd round talent, and he'll probably get picked in the appropriate spot tonight.
Colts sixth round selection: John Boyett, safety, Oregon.
in Colts Football
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Yeah, for a white guy, he has a lot of Bob Sanders in him. Let's hope he can stay healthy.