ColtsHappy
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Posts posted by ColtsHappy
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Go Colts
Go Peyton
Go Eli
Oh yeah, scratch the go Eli for this week!
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T y is no marvin, not even close. Marvin ran perfect routes, rarely dropped a ball, and was way more reliable or consistent,made all the acrobatic catches. Kinda in a league of his own. No disrespect to hilton.
Sigh....
OF COURSE it is disrespectful to Hilton. How could you NOT see that?
Thanks for illustrating my point.
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This story just sort of popped up.... so, I thought I'd link it for your enjoyment!
Not sure there's anything earthshaking in it, though Shefter does gush and glow over Andrew.
The one head shaking comment was from an anonymous Colts exec in 2012, prior to Luck playing his first NFL game.... and the exec is quoted as saying Luck was already among the top-5 QB's in the NFL at that time.
That's the kind of quote that I don't think does anyone any good. Not Luck, or the Colts or anyone else. It just kind of raises the expectations bar unnecessarily.
Otherwise, it's a fun read, so enjoy!
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/blitz141030/numbers-enhance-andrew-luck-aura-adam-schefter-blitz
Thanks for this. Can never get enough "gushing" over Andrew!
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Just my opinion, I could be wrong - but I felt a connection to these comments:
"Did you see the tape? How many guys did they keep in there?" defensive end Cory Redding said when asked about the Colts' lack of a pass rush. Indianapolis had 13 sacks in the three games prior to Pittsburgh but had none against the Steelers.
"When you keep seven at home to block four, you're fighting double teams. And when he didn't have the 7-man protection, the ball was coming out quick. So, what do you do? They game planned us, schemed us."
Kudos to those who suggested "game planned us, schemed us" or a similar theory.
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It wasn't intended as a personal attack, just a comment on how I perceived your posting style on this topic. I.e. How you've chosen to present your argument/opinion to your audience.
Um, not sure how it was intended, can't answer for your mental processes.
Last I looked, we were talking about receivers, remember?
T.y. Versus The Marvelous Marvin harrison
At least I THOUGHT that was what we were talking about.
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Excuse me while I giggle.....
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I'm not sure why you're using quotation marks for things that just plain haven't been said in this topic.
I suppose it's hard to read the responses of others from up there on your soap box.
Hey Mr. Moderator
I have a suggestion. How about commenting on the topic at hand instead of attacking the poster?
I have my issues, but other than - my criticism this morning, which got me a warning (see the rhyme and what I did there)
i haven't personally attacked anyone.
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Nah, the point isn't to keep rubbing your face in it.
The point is that you were so determined to chide everyone who dared to refute the idea that these two young receivers were on the level of a future HOFer that you ignored reason. Now that you have the benefit of hindsight, it would seem that you'd be a little less sensational.
TY Hilton is awesome. I've been a fan of his since before we drafted him, and if you care to look through the archives, you'll see how excited I was when we traded up for him. I think he's a special talent, and he can have a special career. But I generally avoid comparing third year players with guys who dominated the league for over a decade. I don't compare Andrew Luck to John Elway, even though they have similar characteristics, and I expect Luck to have a special career as well.
Hilton may very well be just as good as Marvin Harrison was, might have a better overall career, statistically speaking (which would be one heck of an accomplishment). I just think it's way too soon to make any kind of declaration about it, one way or the other. All anyone is saying is "slow down, Marvin is an all time great, Hilton has played 40 games..." You are free to disagree. But you don't exactly invite civil discourse when you respond the way you have in this thread. In the post about separation, you actually make some excellent points, but up to that post, all you had done was stick out your tongue and make funny faces at anyone who disagreed with you. That's trolling. It's hard for me to understand why you're surprised at the less than flattering responses.
Frankly, nothing on here surprises me anymore - so there is that. My skin is finally nice and thick, just the way I like it.
I certainly don't mind the "wait and see folks" I am a wait and see guy too.
But while we are waiting and seeing can't we stop the:
"No way he will ever be as good as Marvin"
"He isn't now and never will be in the same class as Marvin".
"Marvin is the best route runner blah blah blah and I don''t care if his numbers are better - he doesn't have the intangibles of Marvin".
And on and on and on. I for one am rooting for him to break every record out there - just like i am when it comes to all the players.
I must say though, it is getting better, there are quite a few folks on here now who see how talented and consistent TY is becoming and how he might be able to surpass him. Must have been 10 out of 10 on here that bit my head off for even suggesting that TY could be as good. Things are definitely evolving a bit.
The point I was trying to make is that Marvin trained Reggie. Reggie is very open about it. Reggie trained TY and continues to do so. TY watches tons of film on Marvin - studies him like any good understudy would. Why would it be so unusual for the student to surpass the teacher? Seems pretty natural to me, happens every day.
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I know this is a stretch for many of you - but just for a minute - let's assume that in a dozen years or so TY becomes a first ballot HOF'er and shatters many records, Marv's included.
Wouldn't you then wish you would have gone a little easier on him, given him a straighter shot? I mean talk about hitting a nerve - some of the posters here are quite militant that anyone would even SUGGEST that TY could already be in Marvin's league. Obviously, we will see what we will see, but I find it offensive and somehow it doesn't read as a true "fan" to me. Fans pull out all the stops for their players and their success - and absolutely want them to surpass all their expectations on every level.
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I think you could've started with bad game planning and wrong schemes, along with things like a team getting over confident and the other team peaking at the right time.
But all the "night before" stuff that I high-lited, well, that's all nonsense and I think you know it. Players are in hotels the night before games. Even home games. And they're in meetings with position groups as well as team meetings. There's no time for all the wild sex you're wondering about. That kind of stuff can happen to a player here, or a player there, but to a whole team?!? Ahhhh..... No!
Wow so sorry, that the format of my post and the order I chose to "pose the questions" didn't suit you. I wasn't presenting any theories, I was simply posing a question: "Your Theory on Blow-Outs". Thanks for yours.
By the way, what you call nonsense - no I don't know it - but I am sure it ALL goes on at times in the NFL - I am also pretty sure that kind of behavior DOES NOT go on with the Colts. This was never intended to be all about the Colts I was asking about the league and I believe I was specific about that:
Not just our beloved Colts, but what is at the root of blow-outs in general? What do you think are the factors?
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I can't remember the coach who said it but it was somebody like bob knight or red aurbach. He said in every sport every year they are at least 1 or 2 Games that nothing a coach or team does will change the out come. Either you blow out done one or they blow out you and you can't change it once the game starts.
I always thing of that when the Colts get into a game like the last 2wks.
Great post - I kept thinking during the super bowl last year - and also in the Pittsburgh game - "geeeeez, no one could beat these guys today - their team is just playing perfectly, almost magically"
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You must be very young.. and never watched marvin play. T.y doesnt have the hands marvin had. T.y occasionally drops catchable balls. T.y is smaller than marvin thats why t.y isnt a huge redzone threat.. hints why marvin had several more touchdowns the first 3 years.. and that was with harbaugh(ouch).. at this point in time t.y and marvin arent even on the same level dude.
Hey DUDE
The truth is, I have been following the Colts since I was six in 1958 and I watched every network game that I possibly could. When the NFL Direct TV package came out in 1994, I grabbed it immediately and have not missed a Colts game since then. I have seen every pass thrown and every catch made since the 1994 season.
What no one seems to talk about is SEPARATION. All that matters is separation with any receiver - and if you manage it, Andrew will find you. Separation is not just about route running (blah blah blah). It is a combination of a number of factors, although route running can be one of them.
Separation can be caused by blazing speed, a misread by the defense, a defender falling down, a subtle, well-timed and unflagged push-off - and a host of other specific factors. I am not telling you anything you don't already know. Ever wonder why TY is so OPEN? Yeah, he is open WIDE open much of the time. He gets separation.
The man has tools and thanks to Reggie and Marvin, he is soaking it all in like a sponge and improving every game. Like Marvin, the wonderful predecessor before him, TY is open much of the time due to his blazing speed. Speed can compensate any day for marginal route running while a receiver is perfecting his skills. Think Randy Moss. It was always, "just run as fast and as far as you can and I will find you." Unfortunately Brady did more times than we like to admit. Like Moss not many corners, (including Sherman) can stay with TY down the field as he has proven. Plus, like anything else, his route running will do nothing but improve. (blah blah blah) as the experience piles up. Separation can be very elusive to some receivers (Nicks?) but not to TY.
TY's numbers are already surpassing Marvin and I will be surprised if his playoff numbers don't trounce him too, which frankly wouldn't take much.
Your not gonna hurt my feelings, I love it when no one agrees with me, it's how I I know I am on the right track.
Glad to see Superman is still on his awesome game and will never allow me to live down my Brazil attitudes. I ate a lot a crow with my post-Brazil post, but I realize when you are wrong you are wrong and you are fair game forever.
As a general comment - t would be great if we could stick to the subject matter and resist the personal attacks on the posters. I see it all the time on here, more than any other Forum I am a member of.
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How can any of us know without actually being in the team facilities with the players and coaches?
Sorry, wasn't asking if anyone "knew" simply asking if anyone had any "theories".
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OK so blow outs are a fact of NFL life and certainly do happen - sooner or later to most teams it seems to me. One only has to look back at last years super bowl @ 43-8, or look at the thursday night blow outs this very season - Atlanta blew out Tampa Bay by 42, Packers over the Vikes by 32, and the Giants over the Redskins by 31. Even the Colts blanking the Bengals by 27 and then of course getting trounced on by the Steelers by 17. Who can forget the Luck led Colts getting blown out by the Jets in a 35-9 game in 2012? As a former Indiana boy living in New York, I know I haven't forgotten that game!
Is there a common thread with NFL teams? Players partying too hard the night before and losing focus, maybe a little hung over? Not sleeping well the night before the game and having a corresponding loss of energy? Too much good sex before the game? Not enough good sex before the game? Bad game planning? Wrong schemes?
Maybe it's always the combination of one team just struggling with a bad day - we have all had them - and the other team simultaneously having a nearly perfect day? Being at home? Being on the road?
Not just our beloved Colts, but what is at the root of blow-outs in general? What do you think are the factors?
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Why are you trolling? Why not have a legitimate discussion? You're making yourself look bad, snd you're undermining your own argument.
Is it because LaVon Brazill is gone, and we dont "literally have two Marvins" anymore
Look out
Holy Batman Mr. Superman has arrived.
{{{{{Cowers}}}}}
I am just honestly in disbelief that any TRUE Colts fan could miss the connection and not realize that true GREATNESS is once again in our midst.
But that is ok.
Route Running BLAH BLAH BLAH makes the day.....
I wish I had a nickel.......
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LOL. You're literally disregarding a very important part to this conversation. Stop acting as if it is useless drivel to you, because it's valid. You can't make the argument that TY is the better route runner, as Marvin is arguably best of all time. There have been interviews with cornerbacks that have said they had such a hard time covering him because the first 10 yards of all of his routes were the same.
You wanna know why Da'rick rogers never could make it onto the field this year? His terrible route running. It's pretty important.
If you counter with another pointless post with no thought in it about how route running isn't important then you're pointless to reply to. TY is a 3rd year player, just because he's done better so far doesn't mean he will for the rest of his career. This is coming from a giant TY Hilton homer too.
I'll say it again: Marvin Harrison is an all-time great. We're "living in the past" because he was really THAT good.I love it
I love it. Normally you would be "D" but since you were already "B" you don't qualify.
Forest for the trees?
Posing the question.
Oh, and I forgot.
Route Running BLAH BLAH BLAH.
My guess is that by the time the lectures are over, we may be at "V" or even "Z"!
Keep em coming! Funniest thing is - I only suggested that since MARVIN trained TY they both should be honored. But the bozos dispute....
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Dude what are you talking about? TY is still not the route runner Marvin was, probably never will be. It's a completely valid argument.
It's hard to make an argument about someone who's a 3rd year player vs. an all-time great, even though there are similarities.
Let's see this looks like Exhibit B, although really short and to the point but still has the:
Route Runner BLAH BLAH BLAH
We love that.
Didn't say he was an awful route runner, but he sure isn't an elite route runner at this point in time. Marvin was the best route runner in the history of the game. TY has been very good for us, and is continuing to improve -- but he's got a way to go to catch Marvin (part of that is staying healthy and the other part is continuing to improve his hands and route running).
Reggie and Marvin were totally different WR's, and TY is a different WR than both of them. Marvin taught Reggie how to be a professional and Reggie found his niche and has excelled at it for many years. Reggie taught/is teaching TY how to be a professional and TY is continuing to become a true professional. That said, TY and Reggie are almost not even comparable in their games, 2 completely different WR's. Reggie is a great route runner, and is still a master at finding open spaces in crowded areas -- TY gets most of his catches because he is faster than most others in the league and usually relies on short passes or passes where he has simply outrun the coverage. He still has a ways to go as a route-runner, and if he continues to improve he has a very high ceiling.
That's not to say TY is an awful route runner, he just has room to improve there and if he does and continues to stay healthy and excel for many more years, then maybe we can start comparing him to future HOF'ers like Marv and Reggie.
And I would most certainly label this as exhibit "C".
Still talking about the Route Running BLAH BLAH BLAH
imagine that.
We are off and running!
Waiting rather patiently for Exhibit "D"
Good job folks!
I had a feeling that you wouldn't disappoint!
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I don't know what you're talking about -- are you trying to dismiss route running as being important?
At this point in his career, TY is nowhere near where Marvin was as a route runner when Marvin was in his prime. Not saying he can't get there, but he's not there yet, and until he is, I don't think a case can be made for TY as a better WR.
Yeah, geeeeez, TY is such a god awful route runner....
i guess Reggie (and Marvin) didn't really know how to guide him....
Really depresses me, frankly.
:yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:
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Marvin, IMO, is the greatest route runner to ever play the game. Marvin also played his career in a different era, which was not as 'pass-friendly' as today's league. Marvin had to deal with more holding/jamming/etc. than TY does, but he was able to overcome that as a littler guy because he ran such precise routes and got off the line so well (Champ Bailey, Charles Tilman, and several other DBs have said Marvin was the hardest WR to guard because his first few steps off the line were always identical no matter what type of route he was running).
Marvin had the best 7, 8, 9, and 10 year stretches in league history and it isn't even close (he also had the single best season ever, and I don't imagine his 143 receptions will ever be broken) -- Sterling Sharpe had a 5 year stretch that was better than Marvin during that time and unfortunately S.S. got hurt and never recovered and you can argue Wes Welker may have had a better 6 year stretch during the Patriots' dominant years. It was absolutely ridiculous that Marvin wasn't first-ballot HOF, not just in my opinion, but because in an era with a lot of big name WRs Marvin put up the best numbers and ended his career behind only Jerry Rice in just about every WR category. Marvin was the fastest player ever to reach 700, 800, 900, 1,000 and 1,100 receptions -- so one could argue if Marvin didn't blow his knee out that he could have surpassed Rice in a lot of categories. Prior to Marvin being injured, he was averaging 93 receptions a year -- the next closest is Sterling Sharpe with 85 receptions per year -- if you count the year Marvin missed 12 games, he is 2nd all time with 84.7 receptions per season.
In some ways you cannot compare the 2 -- TY has much easier rules against him as a WR than Marvin did and is playing in a totally different era of football (I firmly believe that Peyton and Marvin are a big reason why the NFL rules have evolved to become so pass friendly). TY also is starting his career on a better team than Marvin played for (Marvin started 9-7, 9-7, 3-13 -- TY 11-5, 11-5 and probably at least 10 wins again). However, in many ways you can compare them. Both are small WRs, both can/could change the game on any given play, both keep/kept to themselves off the field, both work/worked tirelessly to improve their game, and both got to play with an elite young QB early in their careers (Marvin had to wait until year 3 to get Peyton).
At this point, TY has a long way to go to become a better WR than Marvin was -- but he has a shot at putting up better numbers. He continuously improves his game and keeps working with Luck. While one could argue Marvin was so good because of Peyton, I disagree -- they had a mutual relationship and honed each other's professionalism and perfectionism. The same will likely be said about TY (i.e., he was a product of Luck) -- however, I don't buy that totally -- yes, it helps to play with an elite QB, but you have to be willing as a WR to put in the work to build that relationship of trust and mutual perfectionism and professionalism. So far, it sure seems like TY is working tirelessly with Andrew to develop into a better player. He still has some ways to go on his route running and hands (Marvin had one of the best sets of hands in NFL history -- TY doesn't have terrible hands, but he drops some pretty catchable balls from time to time), but if he continues to work like he has been, I don't see why he can't improve both of these areas.
As far as Marvin falling after a catch -- he did that knowing he was a small WR and wasn't worth it to take unnecessary hits -- if Marvin had a first down and getting an additional 2 yards was not possible without taking a hit, he went down -- if Marvin needed to get another yard or 2 for a first down or TD he would take a hit. I would not mind seeing TY going down more often -- he is a very small WR in today's NFL and once he's moved the chains and gotten the yards we need, there is no sense in taking a hit -- run if you are gonna score or get a lot more yards, but getting an extra yard or 2 after the first down is not worth risking a big hit or injury. Marvin prolonged his career by doing that -- unfortunately, he eventually had a knee injury, but he never had a concussion history and rarely dealt with injuries due to being hit hard.
HA! LOL!
Route running BLAH BLAH BLAH!
Exhibit A folks.....
I am sure there is much more to follow - B and C and D and even more are on the way!
What greater honor and compliment could you pay to both of them - than to express how ALIKE they are!
Route running BLAH BLAH BLAH!
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I know, I know, route running BLAH BLAH BLAH
This is such an OVER thread. Too many folks with blinders on living in the past.
It is actually REALLY simple.
Marvin taught Reggie.
Reggie taught TY.
Marvin actually taught TY.
If you don't see the REMARKABLE resemblances, you would have to be blind.
I love Marvin as much as anyone, and that is exactly why I love TY.
By osmosis Marvin trained him!
Get used to it, if he stays healthy, he will surpass Marvin in every category - the fact is - he already has.
Route running BLAH BLAH BLAH
I prefer to embrace them both simultaneously.
If not for Marvin there wouldn't anywhere NEAR the same TY we see.
If he continues to avoid those big hits - the essence of the "Marvinisms" he was taught - he will be with us for many years to come....
It's not just by the numbers, if you get my drift.
Q: Why are the Broncos better than last year?
A: Peyton finally found his Marvin - in Sanders. Yup, he most certainly did.
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I don't give a rat's butt what anyone says - 34 points in 20 minutes is truly remarkable.
Hang the issues on the D.
The entire game could have been reversed if not for the rampant foot Luck tripped over.
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Not in references in wins and losses during particular times of the year.
New year. New season.
Yup and new quarterback too.
Not a chance Dallas makes the playoffs IMHO.
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Dallas always looks good in October.
I am not sold on them in November and December.
History matters.
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If Nicks doesn't show up monday night against his former team, I say he should be gone or on the bench. He seems to have limited ability to get open and when he is targeted - far too many times - he seems to give up early on the play. He doesn't use his height - or simply exhibits bad timing with his jumps - to just go up and get it. For whatever reason, him and Andrew are not on the same page WAY too often. A lot of times when he is targeted the two of them just look silly. This is going back, NOT just the steeler game.
if he doesn't show something pretty major against the Giants, I say trade him or bench him and bring on Moncrief. If he doesn't produce against him former team, he probably isn't going to produce. Of course, with Reggie back in, he may already be committed to the bench, but I can't believe we won't at least try to get him fired up and productive against his former team.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
T.y. Versus The Marvelous Marvin harrison
in Colts Football
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Thanks for commenting on the subject of the post. Way to go.
The "bashing" and personal attacks on this board - not just this thread - are out of control.
There is a big difference between a little good natured teasing and ribbing and the venom that spews forth at times from this board.
The other forums I belong to pretty strictly forbid it. You stick to discussing and commenting on the topic or you are gone.
Would some kind soul point me toward the rules on here? It they are posted somewhere, I certainly don't see them?