David Wagner
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Posts posted by David Wagner
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You do realize that the more you try to split hairs or sanitize this filthy pig's motives.... the more ridiculous it sounds.
Whether anyone in this discussion played football is completely besides the point because anyone aware of the culture this jerk fostered can figure out the difference between his metaphors and his inflamatory and malicious comments. All this pregame speech did was corroborate his behavior and illustrate his complete arrogance, on which his own peers such as Brian Billick and Steve Mariucci registered their disgust on NFLN today.
Are their credentials good enough for you?
Gregg Williams had every intent of directing Saints players to injure the opposition and added cash rewards.... and people with a whole lot more information than you and I who are VERY plugged into the NFL have concluded as much.
Heck, he's not even appealing his punishment..... what does that tell you?
how can Gregg Willams appeal punishment when he has not been punished. all that has been said if he will be out for an undetermined amount of time of which most people said will be a years. notice the people you have mentioned are not defensive coaches either. Steve M was a head coach/oc and Brian B was head coach/oc. neither have coached on the defensive side of the ball. I can tell you there are defensive coaches in the nfl who have no problem with what Greg Willaims said. like I have said, I do not agree on bountys at all nor do I believe in attempting to injure players. however, I do believe in hitting people with as much force as possible. my hero growing up was chuck cecil. good old chuck would put the wood to people and he was a small guy by nfl standards being barely 6ft and barely 200 lbs. he was a mean and violent man on the field yet wrote poetry and painted off the field. He was on the cover of SI as well with the title to mean to vicous for the nfl. He is now the Titans DC. fact is most people who try to injure a player on the other team get so caught up in it and when you try hard you often wiff. the best licks I have put on anyone came at natural times. the receiver who does not have his head on a swivel. the running back who goes half harted or is half harted in pass protection, the qb who is standing around and not going full speed. if you have never played the game beyond the high school level you do not understand the leve of intenstity you need to play at. it is the same if you are playing for Tyalor U or the U of Indianaplois, or Ball State. Most people do not like to get hit so that is why very few people play football or box or do Mixed Martial Arts. you have to think a bit different to be okay with hitting and getting hit. my boxing coaching in high school said " every guy in a bar has a plan of what they are going to do if they get but it changes when they get hit"
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David,
I have no problem with "Kill the head of the snake & the body will die." That artistic license simply means make the QB feel uncomfortable by sacks, flushing him out of the pocket, sliding around near his feet, & obstructing his line of vision so that by the 4th quarter the QB will fumble the ball or throw a pick. I get it. Also, behind closed doors it is common to advocate that key players be hit long, hard, & often in order to generate & perpetuate fear.
Here's what bothers me; late hits after the whistle is blown, late hits when a player is clearly out of bounds or high in the air & can't protect themselves, zooming in on a players knees, head, or neck, & hitting a player both high & low at the same time. See Peyton Manning Vs. the Redskins with Gregg Williams as the DC...I'm surprised that Manning didn't snap in half like a wishbone. Or Brett Favre in the 2009 NFC Championship Game...I seriously thought they were trying to kill him by the 4th quarter.
I do love defense & it does tick me off when the zebras baby the offense completely & I do get upset when I see running backs lower their helmet that could just as easily injure that linebacker & possibly lead to severe injury for that defensive player. Or when a QB adjusts their body & a DE's original point of tejectory [sic] now changes & he gets heavily fined for it etc. etc.
Foul language no problem. Colorful imagery of pain, hits, & agony no problem. Letting the defense play full boar absolutely. Targeting knees, heads, or blindside licks after the play is over Big Problem. Ignoring repeat NFL warnings Big Problem. Under the table bounties...An IRS Uncle Sam untaxed revenue Big Problem IMO.
There is something to be said for 1st hand experience, baptism by fire, & live rounds in the demolition gun I agree. Can a person who never played truly grasp blood, sweat, roars, & live pops on the field? Probably not David.
I can see your point. The question I have is if these are late hits why are officals getting off scott free? I do agree many hits on brett favre were late and the Zebras did not blow the whistle. should n't the officals be suspended as well for not doing their job to protect players? This is where I have a hard time when the comish says he is for improving player safety. IF he was interested in palyer safety he would instruct the refs to call spearing which is what james harrison does on every kill shot. leading with the crown of your head is spearing or at least that is how I was taught in high school and college. also, if the comish was interested in player safety he would demand player put pads back in their pants. you go to a high school and college game and every player had hip,but, thigh and knee pads. the reason the comish does not want this is, it would slow down the game players and there would then be a lack of big hits for the NFL to market on videos to fans. you want to stop the concussion problem slow the game down and move the hash marks back to what they have at the college level. by having the hash marks in the middle of the field it has encouraged teams to spread defenses out with multiple 3,4 & 5 wr packages. the more space you create the bigger the hits are.
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I understand when people say getting players riled up & violence is part of football & profanity is fine with me too. It is the equivalent of putting on warrior paint, going to battle, & getting the competitive juices flowing. LB Ray Lewis is the best at this with his "Are there any dogs in the house?" speech on the Baltimore Ravens squad during the pre game rituals.
What really infuriates me is specifically advocating for targeting another NFL players head or ACL tears. When a DC is encouraging head trauma & knee blowouts, he is jeopardizing that targeted players career, financial livelihood, overall health after they retire from the game, & the quality of their life decades later after they hang up their cleats forever.
In addition, Sean Payton and all the other suspended Saints personnel need to stop creating the false accusation that Gregg Williams was a rogue coach they had no knowledge of this crude behavior or control over. Stop It!!! When Williams was on your staff & won a Superbowl in 2009, you though Williams was a fantastic DC now he is toxic & foreign to you? Gimme a break Sean Payton & Co!!! You got caught red handed & are now looking for an easy fall guy & scapegoat. This immature, childish behavior simply repulses me.
If you listened to the tape he was not specifically attacking frank gores head. Frank gore is the head of the 49ner monster. Separate the head and the body will die means take gore out of the game by hitting him hard, make him earn every extra year, take away the niners run game and make alex smith beat you. hit the head, means hit frank gore every time you get a chance because most backs do not like to get hit. lot of metaphors people who have never played football do not understand. now i do not condone attacking the knee that is wrong but I am sure going to hit crabtree hard to see if he really wants to play.
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The colts and manning struggled against the 34 defense because of their pass protection and the fact they did not have an answer for what is called the x cross blitz where both inside linebacker cross paths in an x. the nose guard takes on A gap and the guard to that side helps but does not see the linebacker coming. teams who face the steelers (who run this blitz with their inside linebackers to perfection) will practice all offseason to stop it in mini camps. Manning was excellent with outside pressure because he could step up. however, he like most qbs do not like pressure in their face. they look down, they have to throw hot, and they know they are going to get hit.
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Look dude, don't say "HE WAS SPEAKING IN METAPHORS!!" and then say "OK well he wasn't metaphorical ALL the time..."
You're making yourself look bad.
there were clearly times where he was speaking in metaphors and there were times when he was not. take the acl statement. it was both.. it was take him out if you can but if you cannot hit him hard to see if he wants to play with the ACL injury.
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Ok, you're right, I absolutely know nothing about football...
Now, I'm going to try to be as nice as I can, because I don't want a suspension. STOP protecting your team and stop protecting that psycho that you called a coach. I honestly don't care if that's what he meant or not; how can I take you seriously, when you said the stuff he said was all metaphorical. He wanted to hurt Frank Gore, that was his intention.
You're on my ignore list now. :wave:
I am a colts fan and my second team is the packers. I wonder how colts fans will change when they finally have an aggressive, attacking all out physical defense which the new DC runs. I will be glad to see linebackers like the ravens have to rip peoples heads off. it is to bad bob sanders is not our safety now. he was the only player on soft core dungy defense who would come up and put a lick on people. football is a violent game played by people who enjoy violence. nothing finer then knocking the living crap out of *, arrogant running back or wr. the nfl has done its best to legislate big hits from the game but they will continue to fail because they know people like big hits. remember the playoff game where the steelers beat the living daylight out of manning. the whole colts line fell a part. it was a travesty how unprepared soft to the core tony was. the colts pass protection was obliterated because they tried to man block 4 weak blitzes. it was not until th 4th quarter they finally figured out they need to check release to dissuade the steelers from blitzing.
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I'd say a lot of it is "normal" football talk about getting into players' heads, but he clearly takes it beyond that - especially with the promise of money for an injury.
sure money for injury is not something that can be tolerated.
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You're just as delusional as most Saints fans out there...either delusion, or something else is your problem.
Frank Gore is the head of the body. by hitting the head (metaphorically speaking) you see how willing he is to take contact. separate the head and the body is not literal it is figurative. it is not intended to be literal and hurt the guy. there are a lot of * backs in the league who do not like being hit or physical defenses.
I am not saying paying player to hurt someone is good. what I am saying is like a pack of wolves ripping gore apart is good. the pack of wolves be figurative not literal.
most fans have never been in a locker room where coaches speak like this. you usually have to have played at the college level to experience this. most media member have never played the game they report on so they do not know what he is talking about. having been a high school and college coach myself plus have played hs and college i completely understand what greg williams is talking about. some of it is good and some of it is very bad. however, with regard to the crabtree kid. say he has an acl issue. I am not going to tell my players to go after it but I am going to tell my player to know the tick out of him legally. lets see if he really wants to play the game. the game of football is about punching the other team in the mouth and seeing how they respond. when I say punch in the mouth i mean be physical with in the rule. play tell the whistle is blown. hit the qb legally on every play if possible. hit the wr's as they come off the line of scrimmage, gang tackle the back and attempt to strip the ball after the tackle is secure. on offense drive block that d lineman and put him on his back. a wr coming in making a legal crack back block on the linebacker so he how looks through the ear hole on his helmet. football is a violent game that is why so few people play it. boxing and mix martial arts are violent games that only few people are interested in playing.
Yeah, reeaal metaphorical there, buddy...
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It doesn't help that he said he wanted Frank Gore's head "sideways" and to kill all their heads.
If you understood football you would know that getting a running back to turn his head side ways means he is running parallel to the line of scrimmage which is bad if you are the offense and good for the defense.
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1. where is all the profaintiy. that is tame compared to my high school coach and college coaches.
2. Willaims in speaking metaphors.lf you have played in a top high school program or college program you understand what kill the head means. it has nothing to do with hitting the actual head. It means knock the % out of him to see if he wants to play when he is getting the crap beat out of him.
3. Now I do not support money for hurting a player. However, say Petyon manning has broken ribs. Every chance I get a chance to hit Petyon legally in the ribs I am going to do it. DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL IS ABOUT PUNCHING THE OTHER TEAM IN THE MOUTH( metaphor) AND SEEING HOW THEY WILL REACT. EVEYRONE HAS A PLAN UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE. MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE CURL UP IN THE FETAL POSITON AND SAY NO MORE.
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most stressful position in the nfl is long snapper. you cannot make a mistake. if you do, bad things happen.
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it is not just the hits that running backs take in the pros it is from high school to college and then to the pros. it adds up that is why they have a short shelf life.
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who cares. manning is gone. He is dead to the colts organization. I wish him well.
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fact is they do not need to repair their image. fans will still support their team regardless. in fact many saints fans feel the nfl has piled on them to be honest. NOw the saints can use US vs the World as motivation. I predict their is a very solid chance the saints r very, very successful this year.
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one more reason I converted from Christianity to Judaism
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I wish Mr Manning the best as a Bronco. This day was coming even with out the injury. a small market team like the colts cannot have so much money invested in one player. sure he is great but if he goes down and all he does is make stiffs better you r in trouble.
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Nope, because I do not believe in following players. I follow teams.
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for that price the packers should have signed Matt Flynn and traded Aaron Rogers. AR is under paid now and in a few years is going to want that 18-20 M. the packers r a small franchise. If the redskins r willing to give 3 1st rounders and a second for an unproven RG3 I bet the packers could have gottend 4 ist rounders and a couple of seconds for Rogers. Flynn would have solid rec. they could draft a solid running back instead of the stiffs they have. they could totally redo their defense. behind a strong offensive line, with a solid running game and with the rec the packers they have matt flynn could have been a super bowl qb.
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Coach B is a proven winner. Coach B took the pats to the SB. Outside of Rob G and Welker they have JV high school players for wr. people want to play and work for a proven winner. IF I was an NFL UFA and i was a vet I would strongly look towards the Pats. Imagine if they had a real running back not two guys who should be on the practice squad.
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if the draft experts r correct peter konz is a low 1st high 2nd round pick.
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who cares what their record is as long as the product on the field is improving every game. it takes a year for a player to make the transition to a 34 Defense. so this time next year the current colts defensive players will have a firm grasp of the defense. the same will be said for the offense. we r actually going to ask our offensive linemen to drive block now. it is going to take some time. on offense we need a fullback, a tight end who is a dominate run blocker first, some new offensive lineman. on defense we need completely new defensive line and we need to add a linebacker or two. much change is on the horizon so limit your expectations if u do not want to be complete disappointed.
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To keep a forest healthy you have to make strategic thinning (cutting) decisions. The dead wood has to go and the dead wood is going from the colts. Dallas Clark very nice tight end but not if you r going to use a power run game with a lot of man blocking. I wish him well where every he lands.
Addai has been in decline for half a decade. cannot stay healthy. This poor pick by polian forced the colts to draft another running back in the first round which could have been used to bolster our weak defense. bracket is not suited for the 34 defense. you need linebackers who can take on offensive lineman and who have a nasty disposition to be in the 34 defense.
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no player is worth 3 1st round draft picks. RG3 has to become the best qb in the history of the nfl for this trade to be win-win. once again the redskins will be bottom feeders in the east.
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There is plenty of reason to panic. If you tear down your house you have nowhere to live.
but you can build a mansion in it place. people need to understand that with everything there r 4 seasons, spring, summer, fall and winter. to have life you need death. the colts 2 yrs ago where in the fall stage, last season was the transition from fall to winter and the next step will b spring and the summer. you cannot have spring with out fall nor summer without winter. just like you cannot have the front of your hand without the back of your hand or heaven without heck.
Most people and fans want to so desperately hold onto past good times instead of moving forward.
Audio Of Greg Williams Asking For Injuries
in NFL General
Posted
read the book the code. it is the unwritten rules in football. if you cheap shot me I have the duty and right to cheap shot you back.