Peyton having Arms Issues?

[NewColtsFan]

A story over on NFL.com..... some parts are from ESPN....

Appears Peyton has some trouble throwing to his right on pass plays longer than 10 yards.....

I have no dog in this hunt.... I'm just passing this along for whatever it may, or may not, be worth....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000053026/article/peyton-manning-struggling-with-throws-to-right-side

[coming on strong]

he looked realy rusty agaisnt the seahawks im hoping he will shake off the rust by the regular season

[GoColts8818]

His passes have always looked wobbly but they looked even more so to me than normal. With that he hasn't played football in over a year and is with a new team and for a guy who would look rusty if he missed two weeks of "resting" that's not surprising or frankly unexpected. So I wouldn't push the panic button yet but I would watch it closely. Frankly if these reports turn out to be true this is why the Broncos gave themselves an out clause in the contract before next season like the Colts had in theirs with him.

[John Dee]

I'll take PM at 75% over ... the rest of t teh choices.

Which are not much.

[GoColts8818]

You know I wonder if we ranked the 32 starting qbs in the nfl what the gap between manning and luck would be I am willing to guess based on right now it's closer than most would think.

[Dan]

You know I wonder if we ranked the 32 starting qbs in the nfl what the gap between manning and luck would be I am willing to guess based on right now it's closer than most would think.

At the moment Luck is tied last with Griffin, Tannehill and Weeden because none of them have taken a snap in the NFL.

[BrentMc11]

Someone mentioned this in the Bronco thread trying to stir the pot......I said "Are we going here yet again?"

Billy Kilmer, was know for throwing wounded ducks for years with the Washington Redskins. With the mastery of the line of scrimmage Peyton Williams Manning will be just fine.

If Andrew Luck had not shown determination after going down 14-0 against the Steelers, the same analysts would be saying Luck's arm strength to the left is not good enough for the NFL (after the pick 6)

These are the same 'experts' that say Romo is elite one week, and the next he is Gabbert.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Peyton's arm will remain an issue for the rest of his career in my opinion...

Still, I hope everything is OK with his "laser arms" anyway!

[BrentMc11]

Peyton's arm will remain an issue for the rest of his career in my opinion...

Still, I hope everything is OK with his "laser arms" anyway!

I quit throwing...lasers at about 36 without serious injury. His knowledge of the game will lead him through....see Chad Pennington...I can still throw harder than he did when playing....let's not talk accuracy...better at baseball.

[SilentHill]

IN today's NFL if you can't spread the ball around the field you're going to be in real trouble.

[BrentMc11]

IN today's NFL if you can't spread the ball around the field you're going to be in real trouble.

Good Point SH....but I am not giving up on 18.....PM can throw underhanded harder than Pennington did...I understand your point however.

[RW87]

People need to remember that this isn't the Peyton of 7-8 years ago. Also after all those surgeries and having a full season off, this was expected.

[Nadine]

A story over on NFL.com..... some parts are from ESPN....

Appears Peyton has some trouble throwing to his right on pass plays longer than 10 yards.....

I have no dog in this hunt.... I'm just passing this along for whatever it may, or may not, be worth....

http://www.nfl.com/n...s-to-right-side

good grief.........it is silly at this point to analyze manning to this extent. I guess that's what analysts do though.

Can't help it though, it reminds me of Zoolander not being able to Turn Left. Even so, he was still a super model

[bayone]

A story over on NFL.com..... some parts are from ESPN....

Appears Peyton has some trouble throwing to his right on pass plays longer than 10 yards.....

I have no dog in this hunt.... I'm just passing this along for whatever it may, or may not, be worth....

http://www.nfl.com/n...s-to-right-side

Here is an analysis I thought u would like that visually shows plays to support the thesis

http://bleacherrepor...-to-throw-right

[ViriLudant]

Someone mentioned this in the Bronco thread trying to stir the pot......I said "Are we going here yet again?"

Billy Kilmer, was know for throwing wounded ducks for years with the Washington Redskins. With the mastery of the line of scrimmage Peyton Williams Manning will be just fine.

If Andrew Luck had not shown determination after going down 14-0 against the Steelers, the same analysts would be saying Luck's arm strength to the left is not good enough for the NFL (after the pick 6)

These are the same 'experts' that say Romo is elite one week, and the next he is Gabbert.

Yeah, because it's not like Peyton's velocity hasn't dropped off since '10.

/sarcasm off

Sorry, but you're completely off if you think that Peyton ISN'T throwing differently than he did 2 years ago.

[21isSuperman]

Give him time. The dude is coming off of 4 neck surgeries. Give him time to work on throwing the ball and regain his muscle strength. I think he will be fine

[throwing BBZ]

Give him time. The dude is coming off of 4 neck surgeries. Give him time to work on throwing the ball and regain his muscle strength. I think he will be fine

just a thought. You can do some fast work on a muscle group in 60 days.

If his triceps was coming back, wouldn`t it by now? I think it has been deteriorating for several years and what he has now is likely it.

He looks to have lost some strength and grip.

Also, in his first 5 years or so he threw LOTS of wobbly passes. IMO he improved on that considerably and threw a tighter spiral.

That is why he threw such a str8 ball. IMO. He didn`t use TOUCH like Brees does so often because his ball would go wobbly and bump up his INT`s.

He had 100 INT`s through his first 5 years.

I hope he qualifies for his next guaranteed $40M.

[21isSuperman]

just a thought. You can do some fast work on a muscle group in 60 days.

If his triceps was coming back, wouldn`t it by now? I think it has been deteriorating for several years and what he has now is likely it.

He looks to have lost some strength and grip.

Also, in his first 5 years or so he threw LOTS of wobbly passes. IMO he improved on that considerably and threw a tighter spiral.

That is why he threw such a str8 ball. IMO. He didn`t use TOUCH like Brees does so often because his ball would go wobbly and bump up his INT`s.

He had 100 INT`s through his first 5 years.

I hope he qualifies for his next guaranteed $40M.

Yeah, but who knows how much he has worked on throwing, or gaining muscle strength, or flexibility, or getting his cardio back where it should be, etc.

[BrentMc11]

Yeah, because it's not like Peyton's velocity hasn't dropped off since '10.

/sarcasm off

Sorry, but you're completely off if you think that Peyton ISN'T throwing differently than he did 2 years ago.

Velocity off....mastery of the line of scrimmage the same.

If I am completely off I am completely surprised,,,,rarely am. Like I said in the Bronco thread....you need to give respect for a player who knows the game...makes his OL and every player better. This is about RESPECT as I said about the respect I have for Tom Brady and the great ones.

Bayone put a nice link in showing the flaws of 18. I am a Colt Fan first, but I saw Peyton Manning go right down the field on the Bears....he will continue to rehab....I will not count him out...the most over analyzed arm/neck/nerve regeneration in the history of mankind..... BTW I have a gray hoodie in the closet for ya....that suit is just not right.

[chad72]

I am a big believer in Peyton's abilities and a big supporter of his.

Last night, I watched his throws in slow-mo vs the Seahawks. Then, saw throws from the 2006 AFCCG I had recorded.

Fact 1 I noticed: He never threw perfect spirals for the most of his career. His wobbles were always a part of his throws even at his prime, whether it was a fast ball or a slow one.

Fact 2 I noticed: The velocity of his throws, soft or hard, even with the wobbling seemed to be a tad off. Not huge, but might be good enough for elite CBs to make a break on them. I would say he is somewhere in the 80-90% range w.r.t velocity.

My take on this: The schedule at the beginning of the year does not favor the time frame by which I feel he might get to 100%. I do feel that year 1 will be a slow start with the hope that his running game and D does its best to carry his mistakes on offense. They may still make the playoffs but the Peyton that you could count on to put up 25-30 points a game might take a while to appear in the Broncos uniform in the year, mainly due to those issues plus not to mention the timing issues with his wideouts. How much Peyton can make up with his brain depends not just on him but also on his teammates responding to the task.

[BayAreaBronco]

I too watch the whole first half again last night. I didn't see any big problem. He is not 100% as he himself admits, and it will probably take a while longer to get where he wants to be. I think he and the team will find a way to cover any deficiencies if any. I feel like it's nit-picking a little.

[oldunclemark]

Yeah, because it's not like Peyton's velocity hasn't dropped off since '10.

/sarcasm off

Sorry, but you're completely off if you think that Peyton ISN'T throwing differently than he did 2 years ago.

You are on to of it....VL....

Peyton isnt throwing like he did in 2002 and 2005.....

but I see n difference in how he threw the footballin 2010 (for 4,700 yards)

...a lot of people commenting nationally.....didnt watch the Colts every week ....outside of Indy..not many do....

Manning has always thrown the ball better to his left that to his right....most QBs (other than Michael Vick) do..

He doesnt throw like Cam Newton..but the only issues are accuracy and how does his armn feel after a year off..

His accuracy is fine...he was 16 of 25 last week against Seattle withn a drop...

How he feels is something only he knows..

...by the way..nobody asked him (or seemed to notice) that he threw 25 passes in a half...I think he's OK

[oldunclemark]

I am a big believer in Peyton's abilities and a big supporter of his.

Last night, I watched his throws in slow-mo vs the Seahawks. Then, saw throws from the 2006 AFCCG I had recorded.

Fact 1 I noticed: He never threw perfect spirals for the most of his career. His wobbles were always a part of his throws even at his prime, whether it was a fast ball or a slow one.

Fact 2 I noticed: The velocity of his throws, soft or hard, even with the wobbling seemed to be a tad off. Not huge, but might be good enough for elite CBs to make a break on them. I would say he is somewhere in the 80-90% range w.r.t velocity.

My take on this: The schedule at the beginning of the year does not favor the time frame by which I feel he might get to 100%. I do feel that year 1 will be a slow start with the hope that his running game and D does its best to carry his mistakes on offense. They may still make the playoffs but the Peyton that you could count on to put up 25-30 points a game might take a while to appear in the Broncos uniform in the year, mainly due to those issues plus not to mention the timing issues with his wideouts. How much Peyton can make up with his brain depends not just on him but also on his teammates responding to the task.

Your last point is the best...

all I would say is: Look at the 2010 playoff game aginst the jets...

..and tell me the guy who played QB against Seattle last week is not the same guy..

[BrentMc11]

You are on to of it....VL....

Peyton isnt throwing like he did in 2002 and 2005.....

but I see n difference in how he threw the footballin 2010 (for 4,700 yards)

...a lot of people commenting nationally.....didnt watch the Colts every week ....outside of Indy..not many do....

Manning has always thrown the ball better to his left that to his right....most QBs (other than Michael Vick) do..

He doesnt throw like Cam Newton..but the only issues are accuracy and how does his armn feel after a year off..

His accuracy is fine...he was 16 of 25 last week against Seattle withn a drop...

How he feels is something only he knows..

...by the way..nobody asked him (or seemed to notice) that he threw 25 passes in a half...I think he's OK

I really like your point about the 25 throws and the completion %.....I threw a wounded duck once or twice Even to 2nd base when catching in baseball!

[mark5362]

good grief.........it is silly at this point to analyze manning to this extent. I guess that's what analysts do though.

Can't help it though, it reminds me of Zoolander not being able to Turn Left. Even so, he was still a super model

Unfortunately,that's the way the world is today.everything and everybody gets nitpicked to death.

[Nadine]

Unfortunately,that's the way the world is today.everything and everybody gets nitpicked to death.

Yes and I think the media particularly likes to pick on the BEST players because it gets fans riled up

[BrentMc11]

Yes and I think the media particularly likes to pick on the BEST players because it gets fans riled up

I was able to somehow sneak a like in.....still think something is up....When the John Clayton's of the world want to 'break a story' somehow this story is golden.....I always threw better to the left and to the middle.....I will never count PM out.....

[MAC]

Didn't he just have like 177 yards with 69% completion rate (despite two drops) in one half against a team with three all-pro dbs? I saw one bad pass in two games, and he OVER-threw the guy. Even the first week interception was intentionally behind the receiver because he had screwed up his route, and Peyton didn't want to lead him into a devastating hit - and that game was inconclusive because the field was so murky. I have yet to see anything from Peyton to make me think he can't be effective.

Sure he has rust and timing issues with his new team, and sure the schedule starts out really rough. Haven't we seen this before? There is a good chance that the Broncos will start off the season something like 4-4 as a result. There is an equally good chance that they will finish the season 8-0 as the rust comes off, the timing improves, the schedule eases, and the urgency increases. Would you put it past him? That would be twelve wins (again!).

[BrentMc11]

Didn't he just have like 177 yards with 69% completion rate (despite two drops) in one half against a team with three all-pro dbs? I saw one bad pass in two games, and he OVER-threw the guy. Even the first week interception was intentionally behind the receiver because he had screwed up his route, and Peyton didn't want to lead him into a devastating hit - and that game was inconclusive because the field was so murky. I have yet to see anything from Peyton to make me think he can't be effective.

Sure he has rust and timing issues with his new team, and sure the schedule starts out really rough. Haven't we seen this before? There is a good chance that the Broncos will start off the season something like 4-4 as a result. There is an equally good chance that they will finish the season 8-0 as the rust comes off, the timing improves, the schedule eases, and the urgency increases. Would you put it past him? That would be twelve wins (again!).

Great analysis MAC. I just do not get how one week HOF QB John Elway says Manning is throwing "as well as ever" and then John Clayton (I do like to read his stuff) who has never worn a football helmet say he has trouble throwing to his right....10 yards..." What am I missing? Is Clayton more knowledgeable than John Elway and John Fox?

[oldunclemark]

Hasnt Peyton ALWAYS thrown better to his left than right?

Isnt that typical of RH quarterbacks.......dont defenses already know that...?

He may have to change his footwork on throws to the right but older QBs have to do that..

Is there a way to check?

Do Tom Brady and Drew Brees throw better to their left than right....

[BayAreaBronco]

John Clayton ranked Peyton at No. 6 while observing that he struggles to throw to his right more than 10 yards at the same time? What gives?

[jvan1973]

Hasnt Peyton ALWAYS thrown better to his left than right?

Isnt that typical of RH quarterbacks.......dont defenses already know that...?

He may have to change his footwork on throws to the right but older QBs have to do that..

Is there a way to check?

Do Tom Brady and Drew Brees throw better to their left than right....

He threw to Marvin on his right pretty darn well for many years. I wouldnt put a whole lot into this, They know the name Manning gets clicks, Peyton will be fine. I dont think he would play if he was going to embarrass himself..

[jvan1973]

Great analysis MAC. I just do not get how one week HOF QB John Elway says Manning is throwing "as well as ever" and then John Clayton (I do like to read his stuff) who has never worn a football helmet say he has trouble throwing to his right....10 yards..." What am I missing? Is Clayton more knowledgeable than John Elway and John Fox?

Here is the extra long answer to that question. No

[FireJimCaldwell]

Hasnt Peyton ALWAYS thrown better to his left than right?

Isnt that typical of RH quarterbacks.......dont defenses already know that...?

He may have to change his footwork on throws to the right but older QBs have to do that..

Is there a way to check?

Do Tom Brady and Drew Brees throw better to their left than right....

If you divide the field into Left/Middle/Right,

For his career he has thrown more to:

Right 43.7% of the time 64.7 cmp % 43.2 % of his yards, 47.9% of his TDs

Left 39.9% of the time 65.4 cmp % 40.6% of his yards 31.8% of his TDs

Middle 16.4% of the time 64.5 cmp % 16.3 % of his yards 20.3% of his TDs

From 2007-2010 he has thrown to:

Right 41.6% of the time 64.5% cmp % 41.8% of his yards 54% of his TDs

Left 45.8% of the time 68.5 cmp %, 48% of his yards 28.8% of his TDs

Middle 12.6% of the time 68.6 cmp% 11.2% of his yards 16.1% of his TDS

Those could be just gradual shifts that vary year to year.. I've got a document that I post that has everything crunched out more if anyone is interested in seeing it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/situational;_ylt=App.y4rg19Q7PdTM9wTJMOT.uLYF?year=career

At first glance Brady is better throwing to his left.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5228/situational;_ylt=App.y4rg19Q7PdTM9wTJMOT.uLYF?year=career

At first glance Brees is better throwing to his right.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5479/situational;_ylt=App.y4rg19Q7PdTM9wTJMOT.uLYF?year=career

All 3 are fairly balanced.

[ViriLudant]

John Clayton ranked Peyton at No. 6 while observing that he struggles to throw to his right more than 10 yards at the same time? What gives?

I listened to someone (hmm... who was it?) on Sirius saying that he had Peyton ranked #12 out of QBs this season, but that the average that he's seen is about #8 by other NFL "experts."

And yes, those quotes are important

[jvan1973]

If you divide the field into Left/Middle/Right,

For his career he has thrown more to:

Right 43.7% of the time 64.7 cmp % 43.2 % of his yards, 47.9% of his TDs

Left 39.9% of the time 65.4 cmp % 40.6% of his yards 31.8% of his TDs

Middle 16.4% of the time 64.5 cmp % 16.3 % of his yards 20.3% of his TDs

From 2007-2010 he has thrown to:

Right 41.6% of the time 64.5% cmp % 41.8% of his yards 54% of his TDs

Left 45.8% of the time 68.5 cmp %, 48% of his yards 28.8% of his TDs

Middle 12.6% of the time 68.6 cmp% 11.2% of his yards 16.1% of his TDS

no more marvin on the right side

[chad72]

If you divide the field into Left/Middle/Right,

For his career he has thrown more to:

Right 43.7% of the time 64.7 cmp % 43.2 % of his yards, 47.9% of his TDs

Left 39.9% of the time 65.4 cmp % 40.6% of his yards 31.8% of his TDs

Middle 16.4% of the time 64.5 cmp % 16.3 % of his yards 20.3% of his TDs

From 2007-2010 he has thrown to:

Right 41.6% of the time 64.5% cmp % 41.8% of his yards 54% of his TDs

Left 45.8% of the time 68.5 cmp %, 48% of his yards 28.8% of his TDs

Middle 12.6% of the time 68.6 cmp% 11.2% of his yards 16.1% of his TDS

Those could be just gradual shifts that vary year to year.. I've got a document that I post that has everything crunched out more if anyone is interested in seeing it.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

At first glance Brady is better throwing to his left.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

At first glance Brees is better throwing to his right.

http://sports.yahoo....LYF?year=career

All 3 are fairly balanced.

Isnt there something about the way QBs take their snaps?

There was some snippet on SNF that showed how Packers' QBs take their snaps with their right foot forward.

Brady and Peyton, I think have their left foot forward. Not sure if that pivot foot alignment has anything to do with QBs throwing to the left or right. But I thought I'd bring that up. Peyton does throw a lot over the middle and used to do so even more early in his career with high INT numbers. They came down a little more later though they picked up again after Dallas Clark was drafted.

Not sure about Brees' pivot foot but then, with 2 Pro Bowl Guards, they formed pockets where Brees operated out of shotgun more than anyone consistently in the league, probably to help him out with his height as well, maybe??? Brady's 2007 Pats had the highest ever play formations out of shotgun in NFL history (they had several other highest rankings that year as well) - it was about 57% or something. But the Saints, unlike the Pats, do not go empty backfield as much out of shotgun like the Pats do with Brady.

[BrentMc11]

no more marvin on the right side

Precisely!

[FireJimCaldwell]

Isnt there something about the way QBs take their snaps?

There was some snippet on SNF that showed how Packers' QBs take their snaps with their right foot forward.

Brady and Peyton, I think have their left foot forward. Not sure if that pivot foot alignment has anything to do with QBs throwing to the left or right. But I thought I'd bring that up. Peyton does throw a lot over the middle and used to do so even more early in his career with high INT numbers. They came down a little more later though they picked up again after Dallas Clark was drafted.

Not sure about Brees' pivot foot but then, with 2 Pro Bowl Guards, they formed pockets where Brees operated out of shotgun more than anyone consistently in the league, probably to help him out with his height as well, maybe??? Brady's 2007 Pats had the highest ever play formations out of shotgun in NFL history (they had several other highest rankings that year as well) - it was about 57% or something. But the Saints, unlike the Pats, do not go empty backfield as much out of shotgun like the Pats do with Brady.

I'm guessing you are talking about Shotgun snaps, because proper mechanics under center should be even.

That technique could contribute to it. It would be nice if data was divided out more to incorporate length of pass after having it sorted by side.

[Jules]

I have not really watched Denver closely this preseason (or many teams yet) but the concern I have read on Manning from a few places is that sometimes his foot motions resemble that of a baseball pitcher at times.