Fanene cut by NE

[JimJaime]

Shocked by this myself, but they obviously did it now so he can catch on elsewhere, where do you think he lands?

http://www.patriots.com/news/article-1/Patriots-release-three-players/10aa8809-568f-49f4-ba52-dae22e081aa6

[FightLikeSin]

Shocked by this myself, but they obviously did it now so he can catch on elsewhere, where do you think he lands?

http://www.patriots....52-dae22e081aa6

I realize he was cut because of failure to communicate a physical status or something like that...but Colts have first waiver claims. They should pick him up in my opinion. Redding is out the rest of the preseason and has been nothing but injury prone thus far. We could use the depth. If he turns out healthy, it could be a huge pickup for us. Fanene has the rare size to play 34 DE and 43 DT. Very useful.

[YOUR GM]

Looks like they took this picture right as they broke the news. lol:

I realize he was cut because of failure to communicate a physical status or something like that...but Colts have first waiver claims. They should pick him up in my opinion. Redding is out the rest of the preseason and has been nothing but injury prone thus far. We could use the depth. If he turns out healthy, it could be a huge pickup for us. Fanene has the rare size to play 34 DE and 43 DT. Very useful.

Eh, I'd rather they saved that waiver priority for a DB that gets cut, personally. I think we're better off at DE (with Redding, Nevis, Moala and Mathews) than we are at any DB position.

[Rich Cannon]

I realize he was cut because of failure to communicate a physical status or something like that...but Colts have first waiver claims. They should pick him up in my opinion. Redding is out the rest of the preseason and has been nothing but injury prone thus far. We could use the depth. If he turns out healthy, it could be a huge pickup for us. Fanene has the rare size to play 34 DE and 43 DT. Very useful.

Agreed, this would be an excellent addition, Hes a clear starter on alot of teams and can play either DE position. He would start easily over Moala.

[FightLikeSin]

Looks like they took this picture right as they broke the news. lol:

Eh, I'd rather they saved that waiver priority for a DB that gets cut, personally. I think we're better off at DE (with Redding, Nevis, Moala and Mathews) than we are at any DB position.

I think there is a huge difference between a quality DE that gets cut for injury or what have you vs a DB that gets cut because he's just not good enough to make the team. Not saying there couldn't be a DB that is in a similar situation, but I'd like to hear the argument that we're better off at DE because I think we are seriously worse off at DE than we are at DB. Bethea, Powers and Zbikowski are all decent players, Zib being the weakest of them. King looked serviceable and we just picked up another CB last night for a draft pick.

The D-Line has Redding. That is the only highlight. He's proven, but injured. Moala, Nevis, Mathews haven't shown me anything special so far at their new position, so I can't understand why you wouldn't want a veteran DE who can definitely help the team just so we can add a 20th man to the defensive back group.

[FightLikeSin]

Agreed, this would be an excellent addition, Hes a clear starter on alot of teams and can play either DE position. He would start easily over Moala.

My point exactly. He isn't just some random player that got cut...he's a huge upgrade over most of the D-line. I'd actually go as far as to say I'd value him a little more than Redding when healthy if Redding didn't have the history with Pagano's D.

[Rich Cannon]

My point exactly. He isn't just some random player that got cut...he's a huge upgrade over most of the D-line. I'd actually go as far as to say I'd value him a little more than Redding when healthy if Redding didn't have the history with Pagano's D.

Great minds think alike, the biggest thing this would do is give us depth at the position. Redding/Fanene starting, Nevis/Moala bench I like that a whole lot. Our D-Line would be solid with this addition. I will be praying all day we get Fanane

[FightLikeSin]

Great minds think alike, the biggest thing this would do is give us depth at the position. Redding/Fanene starting, Nevis/Moala bench I like that a whole lot. Our D-Line would be solid with this addition. I will be praying all day we get Fanane

I've always lived by "It all starts in the trenches" mentality. If we can get Redding, Chapman, Fanene...whooweey! lookout NFL!

[GoPats]

There are rumblings this morning that the Patriots are going to go after the bonus they gave him, citing a failure to fully disclose some health issues to the team when he signed. To put it simply, it sounds like his knee (or knees, not sure) are basically shot, and that the team feels his agent mislead them.

Even as a Pats fan, I have to say... tough noogies. I'm sure they gave him a physical. If they did a poor job of evaluating him, it's their own fault.

[JimJaime]

There are rumblings this morning that the Patriots are going to go after the bonus they gave him, citing a failure to fully disclose some health issues to the team when he signed. To put it simply, it sounds like his knee (or knees, not sure) are basically shot, and that the team feels his agent mislead them.

Even as a Pats fan, I have to say... tough noogies. I'm sure they gave him a physical. If they did a poor job of evaluating him, it's their own fault.

I fire the Doc gave him that physical lol... and live and learn I say...(IF this is true.)

[GoColts8818]

Looks like they took this picture right as they broke the news. lol:

Eh, I'd rather they saved that waiver priority for a DB that gets cut, personally. I think we're better off at DE (with Redding, Nevis, Moala and Mathews) than we are at any DB position.

I agree with you I am starting to feel really good about the DE poistion. I really think Moala is just a 3-4 end and what we are seeing is that trying to make him a DT in a 4-3 didn't work. Nevis doesn't seem to fit the poistion per say but he just has a knack for making plays. Mathews is a big guy who is going to take up space which is okay for a rotation guy in a 3-4 defense if the rest of the guys do their jobs which is what Mathews is. As for Redding I wouldn't worry about him too much he's suffered two minor injuries in the pre-season I think he'll come around and be good to go once the season starts.

We clearly need help at corner even after yesterday's trade and if another true 3-4 DT hit the wavier wire I think the Colts would have to take a long hard look at him on defense. Frankly I think on defense we are close to having the peaces in place. I think if we can land those (rather it be this season or next year) our defense will be good to go.

[ReMeDy]

Looks like they took this picture right as they broke the news. lol:

Either that or he's disappointed in this year's Madden title.

[ViriLudant]

Great minds think alike, the biggest thing this would do is give us depth at the position. Redding/Fanene starting, Nevis/Moala bench I like that a whole lot. Our D-Line would be solid with this addition. I will be praying all day we get Fanane

Rumor has it that Fanene needs arthroscopic surgery.

Never mind that he was just a backup for the Patriots, and probably would have been a 3rd-down DT type of player.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the contract situation.

[JoKeR]

I think I'll trust the Patriots logic on this 1. I'd rather have a healthy Moala and Nevis, both are young and have plenty of upside. For Fanene it's going to be all down hill with bad knees unfortunately.

[southwest1]

There are rumblings this morning that the Patriots are going to go after the bonus they gave him, citing a failure to fully disclose some health issues to the team when he signed. To put it simply, it sounds like his knee (or knees, not sure) are basically shot, and that the team feels his agent mislead them. Even as a Pats fan, I have to say... tough noogies. I'm sure they gave him a physical. If they did a poor job of evaluating him, it's their own fault.

Rumor has it that Fanene needs arthroscopic surgery. Never mind that he was just a backup for the Patriots, and probably would have been a 3rd-down DT type of player. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the contract situation.

Once again, GoPats and VirLudant are right on the money. Once management and the player's agent agree to terms and the player signs the dotted line it's a done deal and no amount of money can be recouped or paid back unless genuine fraud can be proven through fraud or faulty medical records. Translation: Poof. The money is gone like a smoke ring disappearing in the dark. That's why I like reading your comments gentlemen. You survey the lay of the land and speak the truth, whether it transpires on NE Patriots roster or not. I respect you guys: Consistency and brutally honest analysis.

[Gavin]

I realize he was cut because of failure to communicate a physical status or something like that...but Colts have first waiver claims. They should pick him up in my opinion. Redding is out the rest of the preseason and has been nothing but injury prone thus far. We could use the depth. If he turns out healthy, it could be a huge pickup for us. Fanene has the rare size to play 34 DE and 43 DT. Very useful.

Redding(6'4" 315lbs) is actually bigger then Fanene(6'4" 285lbs), Fanene has only started 17 of the 71 games he has been in, Since Fanene was drafted (2005) he has started 17 career games compared to Reddings 86 games Redding has 22.5 sacks in that time , How has Redding been injury prone? hes started 69 more games than Fanene in the time period since Fanene has been drafted

[YOUR GM]

I think there is a huge difference between a quality DE that gets cut for injury or what have you vs a DB that gets cut because he's just not good enough to make the team. Not saying there couldn't be a DB that is in a similar situation, but I'd like to hear the argument that we're better off at DE because I think we are seriously worse off at DE than we are at DB. Bethea, Powers and Zbikowski are all decent players, Zib being the weakest of them. King looked serviceable and we just picked up another CB last night for a draft pick.

The D-Line has Redding. That is the only highlight. He's proven, but injured. Moala, Nevis, Mathews haven't shown me anything special so far at their new position, so I can't understand why you wouldn't want a veteran DE who can definitely help the team just so we can add a 20th man to the defensive back group.

I disagree. We're much thinner at DB than we are at DE. In an ever evolving pass-first league, that's not so good. Bethea or Powers goes down, we're pretty much sunk. Every one of our DE's have shown themselves to be at least serviceable, and I don't think a less than full strength Fanene brings anything more to the table than any of our current guys. In nickle and dime packages, we can even get away with sliding Freeney, Mathis or Hughes down as an end, in obvious pass rushing situations. An extra DE is not a necessity at this point, while you can never have enough solid DB's.

[FightLikeSin]

I disagree. We're much thinner at DB than we are at DE. In an ever evolving pass-first league, that's not so good. Bethea or Powers goes down, we're pretty much sunk. Every one of our DE's have shown themselves to be at least serviceable, and I don't think a less than full strength Fanene brings anything more to the table than any of our current guys. In nickle and dime packages, we can even get away with sliding Freeney, Mathis or Hughes down as an end, in obvious pass rushing situations. An extra DE is not a necessity at this point, while you can never have enough solid DB's.

Granted it's still preseason...but we are the same so far this year as we were last year. Better against the pass than we are the run. If you honestly think that Bethea, Powers, Zbikowski +16 other DB's on the roster is weaker/thinner than Redding, Nevis, Mathews (players who haven't done anything notable thus far for the Colts) then I won't spend time arguing. We'll just agree to heavily disagree.

[FightLikeSin]

Redding(6'4" 315lbs) is actually bigger then Fanene(6'4" 285lbs), Fanene has only started 17 of the 71 games he has been in, Since Fanene was drafted (2005) he has started 17 career games compared to Reddings 86 games Redding has 22.5 sacks in that time , How has Redding been injury prone? hes started 69 more games than Fanene in the time period since Fanene has been drafted

I'm referring to Redding being injury prone since arriving with the Colts. It was a knee in OTA's, then the elbow, now a sprained MCL. I think you are blowing my statement out of proportion. Reading your response would make me think I suggested trading a first round pick for the guy. He's injured, but when healthy he could be an upgrade on our team in my opinion. You don't have to agree, that's just what I'm saying.

[YOUR GM]

Granted it's still preseason...but we are the same so far this year as we were last year. Better against the pass than we are the run. If you honestly think that Bethea, Powers, Zbikowski +16 other DB's on the roster is weaker/thinner than Redding, Nevis, Mathews (players who haven't done anything notable thus far for the Colts) then I won't spend time arguing. We'll just agree to heavily disagree.

I think the fact that Grigson keeps wheeling and dealing for DB's, rather than linemen tells me he and the coaches assessment of the team falls more closely in line with mine than yours. I'll agree to disagree

[Rich Cannon]

Rumor has it that Fanene needs arthroscopic surgery.

Never mind that he was just a backup for the Patriots, and probably would have been a 3rd-down DT type of player.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the contract situation.

Yea I just heard about his health issues, hopefully they arent too serious

[FightLikeSin]

I think the fact that Grigson keeps wheeling and dealing for DB's, rather than linemen tells me he and the coaches assessment of the team falls more closely in line with mine than yours. I'll agree to disagree

I think that the addition of several CB's to fill 1 spot next to Powers proves nothing for your argument and doesn't mean that you and the Front Office share the same assessment of the team. So yes...still agree to disagree.

We've also signed DT's and DE's since the draft...so I'm not sure you could say much different about Grigson's or the coaches assessment of the line based on your argument for the DB's.

Also...we get dibs on waivers for every player from what I understand...so what is there to lose that you are so against?

[YOUR GM]

I think that the addition of several CB's to fill 1 spot next to Powers proves nothing for your argument and doesn't mean that you and the Front Office share the same assessment of the team. So yes...still agree to disagree.

How not? I said that DB (yes, that includes cornerbacks) is of greater need right now for us than DE. They've made more moves to address the obvious void we have at cornerback than they've done to upgrade the D-line. And they'll continue to do so until they find are 2nd starting corner. So again, i disagree.

This is all moot anyways. The Colts aren't signing him

[FightLikeSin]

How not? I said that DB (yes, that includes cornerbacks) is of greater need right now for us than DE. They've made more moves to address the obvious void we have at cornerback than they've done to upgrade the D-line. And they'll continue to do so until they find are 2nd starting corner. So again, i disagree.

This is all moot anyways. The Colts aren't signing him

If you narrow your argument down to "We are thin at CB and I can justify that because Grigson keeps signing CB's to play next to Powers", you'd have a better point. It would still be "moot", but widening that to DB's where there is no competition for safeties and no signings for safeties doesn't prove anything. Point being, 1 starting spot next to Powers doesn't equal the concerns of an entire D-line.

Regardless, your original notion that we should "save the spot" for more DB's is null and void because it's not like a credit card reward system lol. If we picked up Fanene today and Jason Allen hits waivers tomorrow...we can still get him.

I've still not heard any argument in contrary to why the D-line is in better shape than the DB's. Please tell me how wonderful the D-line is based on the 3 guys who are injured, inconsistent and giving up 4 yards per carry.

[YOUR GM]

Ok, I was trying to walk away from this argument... but now you're starting to annoy me, so I'll entertain you....

If you narrow your argument down to "We are thin at CB and I can justify that because Grigson keeps signing CB's to play next to Powers", you'd have a better point. It would still be "moot", but widening that to DB's where there is no competition for safeties and no signings for safeties doesn't prove anything. Point being, 1 starting spot next to Powers doesn't equal the concerns of an entire D-line.

Doesn't matter how I term it. You can narrow it to cornerback or leave it as I originally stated as DB's and my point is still just as accurate. Bethea is the only stud we have in our entire secondary. Powers is a starter but is better suited as a #2 CB. He is our defacto #1 because we have no one else. Zbikowski is on the roster because he's familiar with the scheme. That's it. I've been very underwhelmed with his play so far. He is nothing more than a stop gap until next year. After those 3, who do you have? Justin King?... Give me a break. Like I said, if Powers or either of our safeties go down (very likely with this ball club) who's stepping up? Joe Lefeged? lol, please. We literally don't have a competent backup at safety right now, yet you somehow feel more secure in our secondary than you do with our D-line? Yeah, that makes SO much sense.

Regardless, your original notion that we should "save the spot" for more DB's is null and void because it's not like a credit card reward system lol. If we picked up Fanene today and Jason Allen hits waivers tomorrow...we can still get him.

I said we should save top waiver claim on someone more worth it. Fanene is not worth it.

I've still not heard any argument in contrary to why the D-line is in better shape than the DB's. Please tell me how wonderful the D-line is based on the 3 guys who are injured, inconsistent and giving up 4 yards per carry.

How about you tell me why you think it's such a smart idea to bring in a guy who just got cut for health concerns, while in the same breath, dogging our current players for the very same issue? Not very sound logic

To simplify this for you, the sum of our D-line is in much better shape right now than the sum of our secondary. And If you want to try and pigeon hole my argument to "DB's vs DE's," we can always shift our DT's and DE's for depth, if need be.

EDIT: And despite what you think, the D-line has looked solid in the 2 preseason games so far. 4 yards per carry is not horrible and they are actually in the upper half of the league in run D right now (even though preseason stats are totally irrelevant)

[FightLikeSin]

Ok, I was trying to walk away from this argument... but now you're starting to annoy me

Whew! Glad I wasn't the only one being annoyed!

Doesn't matter how I term it. You can narrow it to cornerback or leave it as I originally stated as DB's and my point is still just as accurate. Bethea is the only stud we have in our entire secondary. Powers is a starter but is better suited as a #2 CB. He is our defacto #1 because we have no one else. Zbikowski is on the roster because he's familiar with the scheme. That's it. I've been very underwhelmed with his play so far. He is nothing more than a stop gap until next year. After those 3, who do you have? Justin King?... Give me a break. Like I said, if Powers or either of our safeties go down (very likely with this ball club) who's stepping up? Joe Lefeged? lol, please. We literally don't have a competent backup at safety right now, yet you somehow feel more secure in our secondary than you do with our D-line? Yeah, that makes SO much sense.

First off, I don't remember saying that we were stacked at DB. That said...yes I feel way more secure with our DBs than I do with our line. What I'm hearing from that logic is that our starters on D-line who aren't starting quality, are less of a concern than the backups we have at DB. Which of course makes zero sense. We don't have starting quality players on the D-line besides Redding. Not fit for a 3-4 scheme anyway. At least Bethea, Zbikowski and Powers are average-above average starting caliber players. You are playing the "what if they go down?" angle for the DB's. I'm playing the "who the heck do we have to start with?" angle for the D-line.

I said we should save top waiver claim on someone more worth it. Fanene is not worth it.

What does that even mean? We have top claim on anyone who hits the waivers. We don't forfeit a waiver claim if we pick someone up...I truly don't understand where you are going with that, unless I am just completely misinformed on how waivers operate.

How about you tell me why you think it's such a smart idea to bring in a guy who just got cut for health concerns, while in the same breath, dogging our current players for the very same issue? Not very sound logic

First you have a distortion of why I wanted to add Fanene in the first place. I wanted to add him for depth if for nothing else. The upside is huge. As far as "dogging" our current players, I assume you mean the one mention of how our only starting caliber D-lineman, Cory Redding who is currently suffering an MCL sprain. Again...the reason you could justify bringing in an injured player off of waivers who just had a year with 6.5 sacks involved is because it's low-risk, high reward.

He could start if he was healthy and since the waiver claims are not like draft picks, it would be a huge value acquisition. Same reason we shouldn't cut Chapman because he has an injury. When healthy, they'll be good upgrades over what we have.

To simplify this for you, the sum of our D-line is in much better shape right now than the sum of our secondary. And If you want to try and pigeon hole my argument to "DB's vs DE's," we can always shift our DT's and DE's for depth, if need be.

Ok, thats fine. I disagree based on the stats and play that I've seen so far.

EDIT: And despite what you think, the D-line has looked solid in the 2 preseason games so far. 4 yards per carry is not horrible and they are actually in the upper half of the league in run D right now (even though preseason stats are totally irrelevant)

Well since you mention the stats, even though you also say they are irrelevant (so why even bring it up?), let's have a look.

Colts are 16th against the run in Yds/game. I'm not a mathematician, but that doesn't put us in the upper half. That puts us in the middle of the pack. Meanwhile we are 12th against the pass in Yds/game.

Not a huge difference, but not enough of a difference for me to be concerned with the DB's more than the D-line.

[YOUR GM]

First off, I don't remember saying that we were stacked at DB. That said...yes I feel way more secure with our DBs than I do with our line. What I'm hearing from that logic is that our starters on D-line who aren't starting quality, are less of a concern than the backups we have at DB. Which of course makes zero sense.

Don't know how you came to the conclusion that they're any less of starting quality than any of our DB's outside of Bethea. I seriously don't think you've watched either preseason game so far. Nevis has been in the opponents backfield all preseason, you yourself claim Redding is starting caliber, and I'm not going to write Moala off yet because he's not playing like Richard Seymour. You're evaluation of our D-line is so off-base, it's ridiculous. I'd venture to say they've been one of the many bright spots on the team so far.

Beyond that, depth at DE is nowhere near as critical as depth at DB in today's football.

We don't have starting quality players on the D-line besides Redding. Not fit for a 3-4 scheme anyway. At least Bethea, Zbikowski and Powers are average-above average starting caliber players.

The same can be said for our D-line. They've performed better than expected so far. I don't know why you're so down on them.

You are playing the "what if they go down?" angle for the DB's. I'm playing the "who the heck do we have to start with?" angle for the D-line.

I suggest you spend all of our next game watching the trenches because I see overall solid play so far. I don't know what the heck you're complaining about. The ugliest play by our defense (the antonio brown screen pass TD), our secondary was directly responsible for. How many bad angles did Bethea and Zbikowski take on that play? How many tackles did the linebackers and secondary miss? Yet you want to gripe about the play of the D-line? Please.

What does that even mean? We have top claim on anyone who hits the waivers. We don't forfeit a waiver claim if we pick someone up...I truly don't understand where you are going with that, unless I am just completely misinformed on how waivers operate.

Or maybe I'm the one misinformed... So we'll basically have first pecking order on every player that becomes available, no matter how many times we pick someone up? That doesn't seem right. I figured once you use your waiver claim, the order resets, putting you at the bottom once used. Maybe I'm wrong

First you have a distortion of why I wanted to add Fanene in the first place. I wanted to add him for depth if for nothing else. The upside is huge. As far as "dogging" our current players, I assume you mean the one mention of how our only starting caliber D-lineman, Cory Redding who is currently suffering an MCL sprain. Again...the reason you could justify bringing in an injured player off of waivers who just had a year with 6.5 sacks involved is because it's low-risk, high reward.

I fail to see how adding an injured player provides any depth for us this year? He'd essentially be wasting a roster spot, unless you put him on IR. Why go through all those hoops for a player that's marginally better than what we already have right now? I don't see much logic in that.

He could start if he was healthy and since the waiver claims are not like draft picks, it would be a huge value acquisition. Same reason we shouldn't cut Chapman because he has an injury. When healthy, they'll be good upgrades over what we have.

But he's not. That's the problem.

Ok, thats fine. I disagree based on the stats and play that I've seen so far.

I'm starting to seriously question this myself. It looks to me like you just ran and checked the boxscores, because anybody complaining about our run D, having watched our 1st 2 games is just missing it all together. Our run is looking better now than it's looked since postseason of 06

Well since you mention the stats, even though you also say they are irrelevant (so why even bring it up?),

Pretty sure you brought up yards per carry first, but whatever

Colts are 16th against the run in Yds/game. I'm not a mathematician, but that doesn't put us in the upper half. That puts us in the middle of the pack. Meanwhile we are 12th against the pass in Yds/game.

Rushing yards per game is the most useless way to assess a run defense. Again, when referring to the stat YOU initially brought up (yards per carry allowed) the Colts actually rank 10th in the league right now, which IS the upper half of the league. Top third, in fact. And I don't know if you were referring to just the starters but you cited that yards per carry stat incorrectly. They're actually only allowing 3.6 yards per carry as a team. That not only tells me the starters are decent, but it also tells me our 2nd and 3rd stringers are performing well. They had a nice goal line stand at the end of that Steelers game, and had generally solid play throughout most of the game,

If you can't see the talent on our D-line, that's on you. Doesn't mean it's not there.

[FightLikeSin]

Don't know how you came to the conclusion that they're any less of starting quality than any of our DB's outside of Bethea. I seriously don't think you've watched either preseason game so far. Nevis has been in the opponents backfield all preseason, you yourself claim Redding is starting caliber, and I'm not going to write Moala off yet because he's not playing like Richard Seymour. You're evaluation of our D-line is so off-base, it's ridiculous. I'd venture to say they've been one of the many bright spots on the team so far.

Beyond that, depth at DE is nowhere near as critical as depth at DB in today's football.

The same can be said for our D-line. They've performed better than expected so far. I don't know why you're so down on them.

I suggest you spend all of our next game watching the trenches because I see overall solid play so far. I don't know what the heck you're complaining about. The ugliest play by our defense (the antonio brown screen pass TD), our secondary was directly responsible for. How many bad angles did Bethea and Zbikowski take on that play? How many tackles did the linebackers and secondary miss? Yet you want to gripe about the play of the D-line? Please.

Or maybe I'm the one misinformed... So we'll basically have first pecking order on every player that becomes available, no matter how many times we pick someone up? That doesn't seem right. I figured once you use your waiver claim, the order resets, putting you at the bottom once used. Maybe I'm wrong

I fail to see how adding an injured player provides any depth for us this year? He'd essentially be wasting a roster spot, unless you put him on IR. Why go through all those hoops for a player that's marginally better than what we already have right now? I don't see much logic in that.

But he's not. That's the problem.

I'm starting to seriously question this myself. It looks to me like you just ran and checked the boxscores, because anybody complaining about our run D, having watched our 1st 2 games is just missing it all together. Our run is looking better now than it's looked since postseason of 06

Pretty sure you brought up yards per carry first, but whatever

Rushing yards per game is the most useless way to assess a run defense. Again, when referring to the stat YOU initially brought up (yards per carry allowed) the Colts actually rank 10th in the league right now, which IS the upper half of the league. Top third, in fact. And I don't know if you were referring to just the starters but you cited that yards per carry stat incorrectly. They're actually only allowing 3.6 yards per carry as a team. That not only tells me the starters are decent, but it also tells me our 2nd and 3rd stringers are performing well. They had a nice goal line stand at the end of that Steelers game, and had generally solid play throughout most of the game,

If you can't see the talent on our D-line, that's on you. Doesn't mean it's not there.

We obviously see way different things from the defense. I'll just say that I looked at the waiver rules again and I'm not misinformed. So this whole conversation is just a bickering over nothing.

I subscribe to NFL Rewind for a reason and I'm not as incompetent as you think. When I watch Johnson at NT and Moala at DE...they just don't cut it. Johnson doesn't even command a double team half the time. Nevis has his moments but he's never played the position and I haven't seen enough from him to think they they'll be "fine". Saying our Run D looks better since the postseason of 06' doesn't mean it's fixed or even good. Again your points are so trivial and dismissive that it's impossible to think I'll reason with you.

The play you refer to with Antonio Brown's 57 yard TD pass...it's a lot of people's fault, not just the secondary. If anyone should get the blame it's Jerrell Freeman. He didn't have anyone blocking him and he had a clear open shot on Brown and he just didn't execute the tackle. A play that starts with a pass behind the line of scrimmage shouldn't be the secondaries direct responsibility. It was a good play call on the Steelers. They knew we were blitzing and had their receivers get up field and block/hold our secondary.

I'll end it with this and then drop it. You are crazy if you don't think Powers is starting CB in the NFL. Bethea is a starter and Zbikowski is...bleh. We could use an upgrade at SS. But overall value...the secondary kills what we have on the D-line. Redding is the only one who has ever played the position he's playing. The secondary coverages don't change because they switch base-defenses. I understand that they need to fill the 2nd CB position and with all these trade talks, it sounds like that's going to happen. I'll be glad that the defense will get an upgrade, but to say that our D-line is "fine" is just flat out incorrect. The D-line has just as much to worry about as the secondary. It's just a matter of one person's opinion versus another on which is worse off.

[YOUR GM]

We obviously see way different things from the defense. I'll just say that I looked at the waiver rules again and I'm not misinformed. So this whole conversation is just a bickering over nothing.

Like I said, I wasn't aware the order doesn't reset after an acquisition so yes, this is over nothing. My bad.

But for the sake of banter, I'll continue on anyways. lol

I subscribe to NFL Rewind for a reason and I'm not as incompetent as you think. When I watch Johnson at NT and Moala at DE...they just don't cut it. Johnson doesn't even command a double team half the time. Nevis has his moments but he's never played the position and I haven't seen enough from him to think they they'll be "fine". Saying our Run D looks better since the postseason of 06' doesn't mean it's fixed or even good. Again your points are so trivial and dismissive that it's impossible to think I'll reason with you.

I'm subscribed as well. Just watched the Steelers game again this morning. Moala wasn't horrible. He was inconsistent but he was able to generate some push on more than a few occassions. I saw one play where he got manhandled, other than that, he did ok for the most part. They (the Steelers) didn't really run too many plays to his side, so it's hard to criticize him one way or another. Johnson, I agree on. I think he needs to be benched for Mckinney at NT. I don't know why they continue to start him. Nevis and Ricardo Mathews played ok as well.... I don't know what you were expecting to see from our D line, but their job in the 3-4 is to occupy bodies -- that's it. You're not going to see them making a lot of plays on the ball.

The play you refer to with Antonio Brown's 57 yard TD pass...it's a lot of people's fault, not just the secondary. If anyone should get the blame it's Jerrell Freeman. He didn't have anyone blocking him and he had a clear open shot on Brown and he just didn't execute the tackle. A play that starts with a pass behind the line of scrimmage shouldn't be the secondaries direct responsibility. It was a good play call on the Steelers. They knew we were blitzing and had their receivers get up field and block/hold our secondary.

It was a good call and would've gained positive yards regardless, but we had the bodies to stop it from becoming a TD. Bethea took 2 bad angles in his pursuit, Powers missed an opportunity to tackle and Zbikowski acted like he was avoiding Brown all together, taking himself out of the play ( I honestly don't know why he fell on that play)

I'll end it with this and then drop it. You are crazy if you don't think Powers is starting CB in the NFL. Bethea is a starter and Zbikowski is...bleh. We could use an upgrade at SS. But overall value...the secondary kills what we have on the D-line. Redding is the only one who has ever played the position he's playing. The secondary coverages don't change because they switch base-defenses. I understand that they need to fill the 2nd CB position and with all these trade talks, it sounds like that's going to happen. I'll be glad that the defense will get an upgrade, but to say that our D-line is "fine" is just flat out incorrect. The D-line has just as much to worry about as the secondary. It's just a matter of one person's opinion versus another on which is worse off.

I guess here is my main point.... Even in a base defense, you're going to have more DB's on the field than DE's. 2 out of 4 players in the backfield being a liability is not acceptable. That percentage becomes even worse in nickle and dime packages.

Redding and Moala will be fine as our starting DE's. They are not world class, but they are not liabilities either. I'm not naive enough to believe they are our long term solutions at the position, but they will be enough to keep us competitive this year. I don't think Fanene gives us that much more of an edge at the position. His name is just appealing to you because of his reputation in Cincy. He's not that same player right now. Hence, the reason NE cut him

[FightLikeSin]

...

Yes. Their job on the line is to "occupy" but it's also to push and create gaps for the linebackers to get through. They aren't doing that well by "well" standards. My overall point is that I don't see how you can say the secondary is worse than the D-line because it isn't. It's either worse or just as bad. I see 3 capable DB's in Power, Bethea and Zibby. 3/4 ain't bad. I see 1 capable D-lineman in Redding. That's my opinion based on what I've seen so far.

Again...it's not like we're trading away picks here. This is like I said a low-risk, high-reward acquisition. It means absolutely nothing to pick him up and try him out. So it shouldn't have been that big of a deal in the first place. Now we are just arguing between which part of our defense sucks the most. Which shouldn't even be a part of the conversation. lol. Good debate. Doesn't look like he's heading our way regardless. But it doesn't mean we don't need a serious upgrade on the D-line. Exactly one week from now is when we'll see final cuts. I'm willing to bet they'll grab some help in that form.

[YOUR GM]

Yes. Their job on the line is to "occupy" but it's also to push and create gaps for the linebackers to get through. They aren't doing that well by "well" standards. My overall point is that I don't see how you can say the secondary is worse than the D-line because it isn't. It's either worse or just as bad. I see 3 capable DB's in Power, Bethea and Zibby. 3/4 ain't bad. I see 1 capable D-lineman in Redding. That's my opinion based on what I've seen so far.

Again...it's not like we're trading away picks here. This is like I said a low-risk, high-reward acquisition. It means absolutely nothing to pick him up and try him out. So it shouldn't have been that big of a deal in the first place. Now we are just arguing between which part of our defense sucks the most. Which shouldn't even be a part of the conversation. lol. Good debate. Doesn't look like he's heading our way regardless. But it doesn't mean we don't need a serious upgrade on the D-line. Exactly one week from now is when we'll see final cuts. I'm willing to bet they'll grab some help in that form.

Agreed. Good debate. I won't disagree that we need upgrades at several positions on defense. Let's hope Irsay is not just blowing smoke and these trade rumors actually address one or more of these areas

[FightLikeSin]

Agreed. Good debate. I won't disagree that we need upgrades at several positions on defense. Let's hope Irsay is not just blowing smoke and these trade rumors actually address one or more of these areas

I've been hearing it's a CB. But I've heard lots of things in the last 24 hours.

[Gavin]

Yes. Their job on the line is to "occupy" but it's also to push and create gaps for the linebackers to get through. They aren't doing that well by "well" standards. My overall point is that I don't see how you can say the secondary is worse than the D-line because it isn't. It's either worse or just as bad. I see 3 capable DB's in Power, Bethea and Zibby. 3/4 ain't bad. I see 1 capable D-lineman in Redding. That's my opinion based on what I've seen so far.

Again...it's not like we're trading away picks here. This is like I said a low-risk, high-reward acquisition. It means absolutely nothing to pick him up and try him out. So it shouldn't have been that big of a deal in the first place. Now we are just arguing between which part of our defense sucks the most. Which shouldn't even be a part of the conversation. lol. Good debate. Doesn't look like he's heading our way regardless. But it doesn't mean we don't need a serious upgrade on the D-line. Exactly one week from now is when we'll see final cuts. I'm willing to bet they'll grab some help in that form.

I dont call giving up a 68.4 completion percentage (3rd worst in the league despite our pass rush and despite ) capable DB's. Nevis has struggled for sure but Mckinney and Johnson have done well holding there ground, The one moment that sticks out to me that Mookie was taken down was when he was pretty much clotheslined by Pouncey (1st quarter I believe) other then that hes come close to make some tackles, Moala has done well and even made some tackles, if someone on the front 7 hasnt done well then thats Freeney, Our run defense has been much better giving up 3.6 yards per carry and no touchdowns

[FightLikeSin]

I dont call giving up a 68.4 completion percentage (3rd worst in the league despite our pass rush and despite ) capable DB's. Nevis has struggled for sure but Mckinney and Johnson have done well holding there ground, The one moment that sticks out to me that Mookie was taken down was when he was pretty much clotheslined by Pouncey (1st quarter I believe) other then that hes come close to make some tackles, Moala has done well and even made some tackles, if someone on the front 7 hasnt done well then thats Freeney, Our run defense has been much better giving up 3.6 yards per carry and no touchdowns

i'm exhausted. We've done this before Gavin. You and I know where it's headed. I'll save us the trouble. Agree to disagree.