You guys want to know why Mookie is the starting NT?

[Gavin]

I have to say, I DVR'd the game and came away quite pleased with Antonio Johnsons performance while he was in ther, Thats not to say he is an every down Nose Tackle but a rotation of Mookie, Mckinney and Chapman should do very well I believe, I have been one of Johnsons harshest critics I think but I am fine giving him the year to see what he can do in this new scheme, he looked pretty difficult to move while he was in there yesterday and almost came away with a couple tackles in the process

[ztboiler]

Antonio Garay never got a shot at playing until later in his career. You can't technically say he got better as the seasons went on. Also, he's quality at best.

Kelly Gregg was very solid back in the day with Baltimore. You can't really say he got better.

This kind of analysis is more impression based for me....I can't honestly say I track other teams D lineman very well. My impression is that those guys gained more notoriety later in their careers. That is also my impression of Pouha for the Jets and Sopoaga for the Niners. Just seems like many 2 gap players are low impact early in their careers as playmakers for whatever scheme they were drafted into, then get into the right spot and stand out as they peak and mature into a role. I really don't hold this kind of expectation for Mookie - it would very much surprise me if he is on the roster let alone starting in a couple of years, but you never know and I think that we all tend to make decisions on impressions rather than an understanding of what these space eaters are actually supposed to accomplish (with realistic expectations) on a given play. This is especially true when we don't like the overall results that the defensive unit is getting.

[Superman]

I honestly think McKinney was the better of the two. That fumble recovery definitely helped his cause, but also the fact that he was able to disrupt them and every time he was able to create double teams on him. Look at that Jerrell Freeman big hit. There was a big hole because of McKinney.

I don't understand how the fumble recovery helps his cause. It had nothing to do with him playing nose tackle. I think he did a decent job, as did AJ.

[Andy]

This kind of analysis is more impression based for me....I can't honestly say I track other teams D lineman very well. My impression is that those guys gained more notoriety later in their careers. That is also my impression of Pouha for the Jets and Sopoaga for the Niners. Just seems like many 2 gap players are low impact early in their careers as playmakers for whatever scheme they were drafted into, then get into the right spot and stand out as they peak and mature into a role. I really don't hold this kind of expectation for Mookie - it would very much surprise me if he is on the roster let alone starting in a couple of years, but you never know and I think that we all tend to make decisions on impressions rather than an understanding of what these space eaters are actually supposed to accomplish (with realistic expectations) on a given play. This is especially true when we don't like the overall results that the defensive unit is getting.

Stats and facts don't lie, and he put up better numbers and more impressive play back in the early to mid 2000s, that's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Garay is another story, and he's pretty much the only quality guy who fits your description. Pouha is nothing special and Popoaga was never special and had his best seasons in his early to late 20s.

You're right thought, you can't rule out a comeback from AJ.

[The Peytonator]

Stats and facts don't lie, and he put up better numbers and more impressive play back in the early to mid 2000s, that's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Garay is another story, and he's pretty much the only quality guy who fits your description. Pouha is nothing special and Popoaga was never special and had his best seasons in his early to late 20s.

You're right thought, you can't rule out a comeback from AJ.

Pouha and Sopoaga are the two best NTs in the game right now....and they are both 30+. The Niners and Jets both shut down the running game, and those guys are key parts for it.

[Andy]

Pouha and Sopoaga are the two best NTs in the game right now....and they are both 30+. The Niners and Jets both shut down the running game, and those guys are key parts for it.

Sorry Peytonator, but that was a ridiculous comment. I can name you 7 NTs that are better.

Vince Wilfork

Haloti Ngata

BJ Raji

Jay Ratliff

Antonio Garay

Paul Soliai (although he'll be playing less 3-4 NT)

Barry Cofield

[John Dee]

Johnson has been one of Indy's BEST interior linemen for the last how many years?

He is no slap. In fact, he is showing he can be versatile. He is just a "solid" NFL player.

No surprise to me... he has been good before.

BUT he is not the answer at NG in a perfect world.

[The Peytonator]

Sorry Peytonator, but that was a ridiculous comment. I can name you 7 NTs that are better.

Vince Wilfork

Haloti Ngata

BJ Raji

Jay Ratliff

Antonio Garay

Paul Soliai (although he'll be playing less 3-4 NT)

Barry Cofield

Pats are a 4-3 now and Wilfork isn't what he used to be. Ngata plays DE. Raji isn't anything special. Ratliff is listed as a Nose, but he plays a 1 gap system, not a traditional Nose. Garay, Soliai, and Cofield are all pretty good, but I wouldn't put them ahead of Pouha or Sopoaga. Just my opinion, but it's not a glamour position. Can be hard to know who's really better than who.

[John Dee]

Sorry Peytonator, but that was a ridiculous comment. I can name you 7 NTs that are better.

Vince Wilfork

Haloti Ngata

BJ Raji

Jay Ratliff

Antonio Garay

Paul Soliai (although he'll be playing less 3-4 NT)

Barry Cofield

They are better because they don't play NG every down. . Thus they can play anywhere they want on the D line. ....NG is not just a pot belly pig position... Big Chubbies can play a 43 DE also.

Reggie White was the best NG I have EVER seen playing for the Eagles when he lined up there. Simply Awesome.

and was the best DL I have ever seen. That is the beauty of a 34... if you have "talent" you can play with it.

Go Colts

[Warhorse]

Funny how Link is pointed out as having been "handled" in SD (wasn't it?). I believe it was Wilfork who was "handled" by Saturday in "the block"?

I watched Mookie get pushed back today. My guess is he saw quick pass, and misread. Next play he pushed the lineman back just as far.

[Jason_]

Scott Wells didn't play yesterday...

Also, one play doesn't mean he should be the starter. McKinney was better than him yesterday, can't put it any other way.

If Mookie couldn't cover 1 gap, how can he get 2 gaps... think about that for a second.

I can put it another way...AJ played better than McKinney. I've watched the game a few times now and with each viewing I saw the same thing...McKinney got pushed around more than AJ did. Not to say McKinney got pushed all over the place but I thought AJ did better in both holding the point and getting penetration/collapsing the pocket.

It doesn't help that he gained 10 more pounds, whether it be mostly muscle or not.

I'll make this one short: He held his ground yesterday, but he didn't do what you expect from your starting NT. McKinney showed flashes of that, but like you said...

ITS JUST ONE GAME!

I'm also curious...why does him gaining 10 more pounds NOT help him? Many were complaining that he was too small to play NT at only 310 lbs, though I also disagree with that assertion. I'm also confused...how can he have held his ground but not do what you expect from your starting NT? Holding his ground IS what you expect from your starting NT. He took on double teams and held his ground and when he was left one on one, more often than not he was beating that man and getting penetration into the backfield. His biggest problem is lack of closing speed but as long as he can disrupt the play and leave the LB's clean then he's doing is job.

I definitely don't get the hate on AJ but I think people will be singing a different tune in about 6-8 weeks

[chad72]

I have to say, I DVR'd the game and came away quite pleased with Antonio Johnsons performance while he was in ther, Thats not to say he is an every down Nose Tackle but a rotation of Mookie, Mckinney and Chapman should do very well I believe, I have been one of Johnsons harshest critics I think but I am fine giving him the year to see what he can do in this new scheme, he looked pretty difficult to move while he was in there yesterday and almost came away with a couple tackles in the process

Way to go. My respect for you went up a bit. You are not as stubborn as I thought you were (j/k). Now, if Andy could admit that AJ had a good game and called it like we all saw it, that would be something.

The hardest thing for any poster that is a critic of a particular player is to come out and say he did well. Same goes the other way, the hardest thing for someone who touts a specific players is to acknowledge that player made mistakes in a game.

[Rich Cannon]

I wish I could actually link the play or show a slideshow of it, but you're gonna have to go by memory on this one.

I can't remember what the down and distance was, but it was a run pretty much right up the gut, maybe shaded a little to the right. Mookie is doubled right off the bat by the C and G. Scott Wells is no scrub lineman either. He pushes both guys into the backfield, and forces his way in between them. As he forces his way through them, he dives at Pead's legs and it's a loss of 2.

That was a MAN's play, and highlights the reason he is the starting Nose, while McKinney is the backup despite being bigger......you know, because being bigger means EVERYTHING in this game.

You know who also impressed me was #65 Jason Shirley, he also had some manly plays where he completly onwed the C and G when being doubled.

[Andy]

Ok,

Im not going to respond to everyone of your comments, so I'll do this. I'll rewatch the game and reevaluate Mookie/McKinney.

I'll come back and I'll give you my new "analysis."

BTW, Peytonator, Ngata still plays some NT, the Pats still use the 3-4 and Wilfork plays that. Raji is better than bot. Those 3 I named are better.

Either way, that's a bit besides the point because we're going off track. Let's stick to Mookie.

I'll be back.

[Andy]

Well, I watched and studied the game. My mind has changed a bit, but not much.

I overrated McKinney. He still had a no bad game, but it wasn't anything to go crazy about. I still believe that he showed flashes of potential in that game, more than Mookie.

Mookie's game was ok, like I said before. He held his ground, but nothing special. if he goes hard on every play, then it's worth seeing him start another preseason game. For now, he's a backup.

[chad72]

Well, I watched and studied the game. My mind has changed a bit, but not much.

I overrated McKinney. He still had a no bad game, but it wasn't anything to go crazy about. I still believe that he showed flashes of potential in that game, more than Mookie.

Mookie's game was ok, like I said before. He held his ground, but nothing special. if he goes hard on every play, then it's worth seeing him start another preseason game. For now, he's a backup.

Their dual rotation is a must. McKinney never played starter minutes though he is familiar with the system. Mookie is not as familiar with the system but has played starter minutes in the league. Rotating them is only going to help.

[jbaron04]

I wish I could actually link the play or show a slideshow of it, but you're gonna have to go by memory on this one.

I can't remember what the down and distance was, but it was a run pretty much right up the gut, maybe shaded a little to the right. Mookie is doubled right off the bat by the C and G. Scott Wells is no scrub lineman either. He pushes both guys into the backfield, and forces his way in between them. As he forces his way through them, he dives at Pead's legs and it's a loss of 2.

That was a MAN's play, and highlights the reason he is the starting Nose, while McKinney is the backup despite being bigger......you know, because being bigger means EVERYTHING in this game.

Because chapman is hurt duh

[Kyle]

did McKinney play much with/against the 1st string?

[Superman]

did McKinney play much with/against the 1st string?

Yup.

[TKnight24]

I still prefer the Line-Up to be Redding McKinney & Nevis. But that's just my opinion

[gbrads_rants]

After reading this I'm more excited and CONFIDENT in our D Line than I was before I read this...thanks folks!!!

[jbaron04]

I still prefer the Line-Up to be Redding McKinney & Nevis. But that's just my opinion

Moala is suited for this more than Nevis