Peyton VS Luck

[GoColts8818]

I wouldn't say talent was our problem last year, I say it was the injury bug. Look, when Peyton came to town we had NO ONE. It was him flying solo. But take a gander around Luck: Reggie Wayne, Donald Brown, Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener, Mathis, Freeney, Angerer, Bethea, Austin Collie, Costanzo. That is a LOT of elite talent my friend. Listing them just gets me excited for the season. This year our season doesn't end in December.

Glenn, Faulk, Harrison (two of which are or are going to be Hall of Famers), Dilger, Pollard all count as nothing? Luck might have more talent on defense than Manning had when he got here but on offnese it's not even close Manning had much more talent around him. That's not elite talent because almost all those players were here last year minus the rookies and that team still went 2-14 worse than the team that Manning took over which you said didn't have any talent. Also those rookies are not going to be finished products day one, like Luck they are going to need sometime to grow. Also either way people are not going to call Luck a bust if he doesn't win a Super Bowl by year four alone if he's playing well and it's clear he's growing and developing the way people expect him too. They didn't for Manning they wont for him.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Whats the purpose of this Peyton vs Luck thread other then to possibly drive a wedge between the fan base? I can sum up this thread real quick so it can be closed, Peyton is the more accomplished quarterback, Luck has a higher upside then Peyton did coming out, why? because Luck brings an element to his game that Peyton didnt much, Luck can run. I also think Luck can beat you with his brain and arm just like Peyton did an likely will continue to do. But these type of threads have no point other then to divide the fan base

Over all I agree with this. It's not really fun at all to compare the two just to see who's better. Nor does it matter. Who wants to compare with Peyton? There are luck supporters and those who know he's also good possibly like Peyton but Peyton is ourrrrrrr guy. Now he's gone.

[Dr. T]

Hopefully, one of the big differences will be the INTs. It was the INTs that killed Manning early in his career and especially in his first season as a pro. Lots of great throws, but also lots of dumb ones. And do not forget that it was Manning's INTs that caused Mora's "Playoffs??!!" rant that (IMHO) ticked off Peyton and got Mora fired. My big hope is for less INTs from Luck and hopefully that will result in more wins and more success sooner rather than later.

[Restored]

Glenn, Faulk, Harrison (two of which are or are going to be Hall of Famers), Dilger, Pollard all count as nothing? Luck might have more talent on defense than Manning had when he got here but on offnese it's not even close Manning had much more talent around him. That's not elite talent because almost all those players were here last year minus the rookies and that team still went 2-14 worse than the team that Manning took over which you said didn't have any talent. Also those rookies are not going to be finished products day one, like Luck they are going to need sometime to grow. Also either way people are not going to call Luck a bust if he doesn't win a Super Bowl by year four alone if he's playing well and it's clear he's growing and developing the way people expect him too. They didn't for Manning they wont for him.

Gleen was essentially at the same point Castanzo is at this point in his career (2nd year). Faulk was good I'll give you that one but even then he wasn't the HOF player he was when he went to St. Louis. Harrison too was good but as with Faulk, he wasn't at this HOF level yet. Dilger and Pollard were both solid players but weren't pro bowl level. The hope is that Fleener and Allen can play similiar roles to what they had. Yes they are rookies and they will take their lumps but by year 2-3 they will be good.

And as far as that 1998 defense, please tell me atleast 2 players off the top of your head that were actually solid. No google searching either!

[GoColts8818]

Gleen was essentially at the same point Castanzo is at this point in his career (2nd year). Faulk was good I'll give you that one but even then he wasn't the HOF player he was when he went to St. Louis. Harrison too was good but as with Faulk, he wasn't at this HOF level yet. Dilger and Pollard were both solid players but weren't pro bowl level. The hope is that Fleener and Allen can play similiar roles to what they had. Yes they are rookies and they will take their lumps but by year 2-3 they will be good.

And as far as that 1998 defense, please tell me atleast 2 players off the top of your head that were actually solid. No google searching either!

Faulk had close to a thousand yards catching and running and was still a very good player even if not at a MVP level yet still better than Donald brown has been. I think Glenn is better than castonzo and he should be he was taken higher in the draft. Just because they are at the same points in thier careers doesn't mean they are equal in talent.

Funny both pollard and dilger went to the pro bowl. However they weren't rookies when Peyton got here. Allen and fleener are and aren't going to be finished products day one. Heck we don't even know if for sure they will work out or not. Pathon and green were supposed to be huge weapons for Peyton when he was drafted and yet we never really had a second wr for Peyton till Wayne came along. So we need to wait and see with the rookies.

Either way back to the main point when your rookie qb is depending on two rookie tight ends to be major weapons you aren't ready to win now. I also brought up pollard and dilger as examples of players Peyton had around him when he got here to someone who said peyton had no talent around him. I think they help prove that statement as false.

The thing about Harrison is that unlike Reggie who is at the end of his prime Harrison was just going into it. The colts don't have another former first round pick that you would expect that out of on this team now. I think Reggie will be a good player to bridge the gap for a couple of years but lucks Marvin or Reggie is still missing. Another sign this team is not ready to win now.

As for defense I already said luck has more talent there than manning did. To answer your question though Bennett at MLB and bradzke at de. I believe polian signed both that offseason and no bradzke is not in the same league as Freeney or Mathis but he still a good player for us for a few years. He also wasn't learning a new position like Freeney and Mathis are. With that said no the 98 colts didn't have a player like bethea and didn't have a second good pass rusher. That's why I said lucks defense has better players. it remains to be seen though how they transition from a cover 2 which most of them were drafted for to a 3-4. I think that process is going to take some time not happen over night again in a year or two sure the Colts can win games and be back in the playoffs but I wouldn't call them a team ready to win now and I sure as heck wouldn't say luck is a bust if he doesn't win the big one within four years based on that alone like the first poster did.

[oldunclemark]

I know its early but based off their college careers who was the best prospect coming out of college Peyton or Luck I have had this debate over and over. Can anyone help me to solve this debate. I've noticed a lot of Peyton fans get upset when comparing the two, and yes I'm a Peyton fan as well, but for me its all about Luck no disrespect to Peyton, I wish him the best out in Denver but I'm a Indianapolis Colts fan first so I'm going to say this again were comparing the two as college prospects, who has the edge, I say Luck.

Coming out of college..you are correct..

Nobody has had the hype that Luck has had..

Manning was the son of an NFL QB, too but there just wants the 'media speak' that he was a certain immeiate starter and the No.1 player in college his last 2 seasons..

back then...rookie QBs didnt start. it was rare and unexpected for Peyton to do so...

[Restored]

Faulk had close to a thousand yards catching and running and was still a very good player even if not at a MVP level yet still better than Donald brown has been. I think Glenn is better than castonzo and he should be he was taken higher in the draft. Just because they are at the same points in thier careers doesn't mean they are equal in talent.

I'll agree with Faulk being better than DB. Eh, they both were 1st round talents that weren't taken TOO far apart. My point is that Glenn wasn't the pro bowler yet he later became. Castanzo could be on the same track as well.

Funny both pollard and dilger went to the pro bowl. However they weren't rookies when Peyton got here. Allen and fleener are and aren't going to be finished products day one. Heck we don't even know if for sure they will work out or not. Pathon and green were supposed to be huge weapons for Peyton when he was drafted and yet we never really had a second wr for Peyton till Wayne came along. So we need to wait and see with the rookies.

Dilger made the Pro Bowl AFTER leaving Indy. Marcus Pollard did not make the Pro Bowl in his career and if he did, it was as an alternate. I agree with Allen and Fleener but with today's NFL, Fleener and Allen can step in and have production immediately although they

Either way back to the main point when your rookie qb is depending on two rookie tight ends to be major weapons you aren't ready to win now. I also brought up pollard and dilger as examples of players Peyton had around him when he got here to someone who said peyton had no talent around him. I think they help prove that statement as false.

I believe Peyton did have talent around him but I believe that Luck has the more talented TEAM at this point which is what you agree with as well

.

The thing about Harrison is that unlike Reggie who is at the end of his prime Harrison was just going into it. The colts don't have another former first round pick that you would expect that out of on this team now. I think Reggie will be a good player to bridge the gap for a couple of years but lucks Marvin or Reggie is still missing. Another sign this team is not ready to win now.

Agree that Reggie is closer to the end than the start but his veteran pressence and experience in the league could bring invaluable help to Luck that Harrison probably wasn't able to do for Peyton. Peyton had Faulk. Luck will have Wayne.

As for defense I already said luck has more talent there than manning did. To answer your question though Bennett at MLB and bradzke at de. I believe polian signed both that offseason and no bradzke is not in the same league as Freeney or Mathis but he still a good player for us for a few years. He also wasn't learning a new position like Freeney and Mathis are. With that said no the 98 colts didn't have a player like bethea and didn't have a second good pass rusher. That's why I said lucks defense has better players. it remains to be seen though how they transition from a cover 2 which most of them were drafted for to a 3-4. I think that process is going to take some time not happen over night again in a year or two sure the Colts can win games and be back in the playoffs but I wouldn't call them a team ready to win now and I sure as heck wouldn't say luck is a bust if he doesn't win the big one within four years based on that alone like the first poster did.

Bradtzke didn't sign till 1999 buddy so he wasn't on that 1998 team. Bennet wasn't exactly a homerun LB either. Time will still be told on the Freeney/Mathis 3-4 switch. But as Pagano has stated, the team will be a 4-3/3-4 hybrid meaning that Freeney and Mathis will still be playing a little DE as well. This was evident in how Mathis was practicing with both lineman and LB's at mini-camp.

I don't think this team is built right now but I believe firmly that they can win 7/8 games or at the least, 5.

[funktacious2]

I don't think the original poster needs to be ripped on. Sure we've seen this thread before, but we can always ignore it. And for those saying "You can't compare Luck to Peyton!" you should read the original post again because he's only talking about who was a better prospect not who is better now or who will be better down the road.

[The Fish]

I think a good way of looking at this constant debate around here would be to look at the career stats of Farve v Rodgers as they stand now. Or maybe Young v Montana? Then take a poll on who's the better QB. People will go both ways on that. That's how useless the comparisons are, it's just stuff to talk about.

[southwest1]

Prospect wise, not even close. Luck is a better prospect. People say he is the best prospect since Peyton because he is a top 5 player ever who went #1 overall, so he must have been a legendary prospect. He was a good prospect, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't as hyped as Elway or Luck, and many thought the Colts made a huge mistake passing on Leaf. He, like RG3, was the late comer, media darling with a stronger arm, less accuracy and "more potential"

they were obviously WRONG

I remember all the way to draft day...."Leaf has a huge arm......Peyton lacks arm strength." The Leaf fell hard to the ground....and Peyton's arm strength will get him to the Hall of Fame!!! I cringed when the Colts were up.....and was soooooo relieved that Peyton Manning was the choice. The rest is history.

And the best of LUCK to Andrew!! Go Colts!

Yup, expert testimonials don't always pan out in the NFL in relation to draft picks do they? Those that can't do teach. Those that can't teach often pontificate on subjects they are not well versed in. But, I do agree with the assessment that the Colts acquired the right field general to move and guide our franchise forward.

[Warhorse]

This is about as rewarding as being asked which of your two sons you like better.

There is no answer that doesn't end in discomfort, whether you're right or wrong.

[GoColts8818]

This is about as rewarding as being asked which of your two sons you like better.

There is no answer that doesn't end in discomfort, whether you're right or wrong.

Sure there is like Archie used to say they liked Cooper the most because he had the grandkids

[GoColts8818]

I'll agree with Faulk being better than DB. Eh, they both were 1st round talents that weren't taken TOO far apart. My point is that Glenn wasn't the pro bowler yet he later became. Castanzo could be on the same track as well.

Right but again I using Glenn mostly too point out to other poster that Manning had talent around him after that poster said Manning had nothing around him. Frankly when I think talent I think more of the skill positions and there Manning did have more talent than Luck has and probably more importantly Manning had more talent that was ready to be play when he got here. They had experience where as outside of Collie, Wayne, and Brown the guys Luck is getting here with are rookies like him. I think it's safe to say it will take them longer develop than guys like Dilger, Harrison, Faulk, and Pollard did for Manning. Frankly the gap between Faulk and Brown is liking saying Peyton Manning is a better QB than Dan Orlovsky. That's a pretty huge gap that would take several players to over come and frankly the other poistions are a push at best that's why I give the edge to Manning's offense over Luck's offense at least on day one that Manning walked into a perfect storm where three other skill players (Marvin, Dilger, and Pollard) were just hitting their strides. Luck might have one of those in Collie two if Brown proves to be a solid running back this year. That's not even counting Faulk who had already proven he was a pro-bowl back and one of the better backs in the NFL even if he wasn't playing at the MVP level he would as a Ram. The closet thing this team has to a player like that on offense is Wayne and I'd say at that point in their careers Faulk was a better player than Wayne is now. So all and all if you look at the skill poistions I think the group of Harrison, Faulk, DIlger, Pollard and rookies are better than Wayne, Brown, Collie, and rookies. Now granted the rookies this year could completely change that if the Colts got some major steals because frankly beyond Manning the 98 rookie class didn't do much however till they do they are uknowns.

Dilger made the Pro Bowl AFTER leaving Indy. Marcus Pollard did not make the Pro Bowl in his career and if he did, it was as an alternate. I agree with Allen and Fleener but with today's NFL, Fleener and Allen can step in and have production immediately although they

Dilger made the Pro-Bowl in 2001 his last year as a Colt he didn't join the Bucs till 2002 as can be seen here

http://en.wikipedia....i/2002_Pro_Bowl

You are correct on Pollard for some reason I was thinking he made it one year as a replacement. With that said Pollard was still a fairly good tightend when he was here. I would be happy if Fleener or Allen was as good as he was. Again Pollard and Dilger both had experience when Manning got here they weren't rookies they were ready to go. I think the expectations for Fleener and Allen are already being set a little high for their rookie years even with Fleener's time spent with Luck. It's going to take them both sometime to figure out the NFL game and till they do they might not put up the kind of numbers fans are wanting them to do. I think it could come in time but it just probably wont be this season or at least not till towards the end of it.

I believe Peyton did have talent around him but I believe that Luck has the more talented TEAM at this point which is what you agree with as well

I think it's up in the air. We have the benefit of looking back and seeing what the players around Peyton did. If this rookie class is just off the charts then yes Luck might end up having a better team around him. However, if it goes the way of Peyton's rookie class did beyond him then I would probably say Peyton had more talent around him. On offense I still think it leans Peyton's way at least right at the start because the guys when Peyton got here were more ready to play right when he got here than the rookies around Luck probably will be and I don't think there are two other Hall of Famers on this team right now on offense which Manning had in Faulk and Harrison. Wayne has a shot at it but beyond him on offense I don't think there is a player that will be looked at for the hall with that said again we've had the benefit of seeing what the guys around Manning did while as most of the guys around Luck are rookies which are unknowns. Still counting Manning the 98 team had three future hall of famers on offense that's going to be pretty hard to top for any team that is in a rebuilding mood.

.

Agree that Reggie is closer to the end than the start but his veteran pressence and experience in the league could bring invaluable help to Luck that Harrison probably wasn't able to do for Peyton. Peyton had Faulk. Luck will have Wayne.

Harrison wasn't a rookie though either he had expereience in the league. Granted clearly not as much Wayne had but frankly the leadership role Wayne is going to play for Luck was played Faulk on the 98 team. Peyton has spoken very highly about what Faulk did for him his rookie year. So I think we agree on that point. I will say this the one thing on offnese Luck has that Manning did not is a proven second WR in Collie. Rather he plays the slot or outside teams know they have to atleast account for Collie on the field. Faulk was Manning's second best WR his first year and then it becamse his tightends till Wayne came along.

Bradtzke didn't sign till 1999 buddy so he wasn't on that 1998 team. Bennet wasn't exactly a homerun LB either. Time will still be told on the Freeney/Mathis 3-4 switch. But as Pagano has stated, the team will be a 4-3/3-4 hybrid meaning that Freeney and Mathis will still be playing a little DE as well. This was evident in how Mathis was practicing with both lineman and LB's at mini-camp.

Like you said you asked me to do it off the top of my head. It's been a long time since 98. I don't really see why we are debating that point anyways since I've said from the start that Luck has more defensive talent on this team than Manning had on the 98 team. I never argued that point. After looking at the 98 roster I did see Belser was still here. Again not as good as Bethea is now but still a very good safety. Much like Bethea he was underrated. Also still here was Jeff Herrod so there were some decent players. Again I wouldn't say any of them were better than guys like Freeney, Mathis, Bethea, Angerer, or Conner but they weren't all scrubs either. Let's not pretend like Luck has the Ravens D either. He might have their coach but even with all those players I just listed playing just about every game last year the Colts D was still one of the worst in the league. We'll see how they tranistion to the 3-4 and how the free agents signed help. They didn't really address the biggest hole which is CB either and only took really minor steps to address the DT poistion. So I expect some growing pains going to the 3-4. Again while Luck has more talent there on defense than Manning did but it's not a huge advantage. The 97 Colts D ranked 26th out of 30 teams compared to last years team which ranked 28th out of 32 teams. So all and all I don't think the defense is as much of advantage for Luck over Mannings. It might have a few more stars but as a whole they are about the same.

The one thing we haven't touched on that I think is in Luck's favor is that I think Pagano is going to prove to be a better head coach than Mora was. I know Manning did have Moore on that staff and both will have had Arians but I think Pagano has the potential to be a really good coach for this team for a long time. I am buying everything he's selling right now.

I don't think this team is built right now but I believe firmly that they can win 7/8 games or at the least, 5.

Which is what the guy I was reponding too said they were built to do now which is why I took issue with that and him saying Mannng's team had no talent. I think we agree that this team isn't built to win now and we also agree that Manning's team had talent around him in 98 and it wasn't just Peyton and 52 scrubs like the poster made it sound like. Those were the main two points of my response to him. As a whole frankly the talent level probably isn't that much of advantage for either QB what Manning had on offense talent wise is probably made up for with what Luck has on defense and all and all both are probably about the same in terms of over all talent which for the 98 team = 3-13. I would expect about the same for this team. There are going to be growing pains. Every team has them and like I said before even during the prime of his career Manning didn't win every winnable game on the schedule. Luck and the Colts aren't going to do that his rookie year either. What's more important for this team is that like the 98 team you see steady progress as the season goes along. I remember by the time we played the Jets late that year Manning lead his first game winning drive and it was just like a preview for what you knew was coming in the future. If Luck can have the same kinda growth this year this season will be a success regardless of record or talent level. Growth is what this team will be judged on.

[wercolts]

Debate all you want, post all the stats and you still don't have anything other than opinion. Different teams, different conferences.....apples to oranges.

[DILLIGAFER]

I know its early but based off their college careers who was the best prospect coming out of college Peyton or Luck I have had this debate over and over. Can anyone help me to solve this debate. I've noticed a lot of Peyton fans get upset when comparing the two, and yes I'm a Peyton fan as well, but for me its all about Luck no disrespect to Peyton, I wish him the best out in Denver but I'm a Indianapolis Colts fan first so I'm going to say this again were comparing the two as college prospects, who has the edge, I say Luck.

Jeezus, did we really need ANOTHER thread like this. Judas.

[BrentMc11]

Jeezus, did we really need ANOTHER thread like this. Judas.

19 posts....stop it please. Yours stink sometimes too...Welcome Colts fans! STOP IT!

[DILLIGAFER]

19 posts....stop it please. Yours stink sometimes too...Welcome Colts fans! STOP IT!

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[IndyBarb]

The rules, at times on this forum, confuse me. I thought all Peyton threads were to be posted in the NFL section... I must have not understood.

[MAC]

The rules, at times on this forum, confuse me. I thought all Peyton threads were to be posted in the NFL section... I must have not understood.

1) Luck is a Colt.

2) Even if it was a "Peyton thread", members start threads wherever they like. If you believe that the location is incorrect, all that you have to do is report the OP. A post like this does little but introduce even more divisiveness.

[BrentMc11]

Freindly reminder:

Board Rules

1. Absolutely no profanity or obscene, vulgar or violent photos, period.

2. Zero tolerance for personal attacks on anyone including the mods.

3. Don’t write in all CAPS! It’s “YELLING” and unnecessary.

4. No selling tickets, merch or anything else. No spamming or illegal activity.

5. No political or religious discussions.

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

7. Fans from ALL NFL teams are welcome. They get along in real life and we expect the same here. No exceptions.

I need zero from anyone. Definitely not here.

Freindly reminder:

Board Rules

1. Absolutely no profanity or obscene, vulgar or violent photos, period.

2. Zero tolerance for personal attacks on anyone including the mods.

3. Don’t write in all CAPS! It’s “YELLING” and unnecessary.

4. No selling tickets, merch or anything else. No spamming or illegal activity.

5. No political or religious discussions.

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

7. Fans from ALL NFL teams are welcome. They get along in real life and we expect the same here. No exceptions.

You have never made valid point as I see it....I did nothing wrong.....I will try to avoid your slam on 19 post slams who are welcome here. I also will ask nicely to avoid my posts. Ignore may be your best friend. Your posts are so great....Please let new posters enjoy....Bad day. Bad post for you.

Thanks.

Edited July 25, 2012 by BrentMc11

[IndyBarb]

1) Luck is a Colt.

2) Even if it was a "Peyton thread", members start threads wherever they like. If you believe that the location is incorrect, all that you have to do is report the OP. A post like this does little but introduce even more divisiveness.

Then answer me this? On page 4, why did they move a Manning thread over into the NFL section...and, these "type" threads are the ones that stir up the divisiveness.

[Gavin]

Then answer me this? On page 4, why did they move a Manning thread over into the NFL section...and, these "type" threads are the ones that stir up the divisiveness.

People post all over the place really, its just a matter of getting a mod to move a certain thread or post to its rightful spot takes a little time but not hard I dont think and not as huge a deal as some will make it out to be at times, Oh and by the way some like to use sarcasm here and cop an attitude at times here, dont take it personal, I see you have been posting for a little while now but welcome to the forums anyway

[Superman]

Then answer me this? On page 4, why did they move a Manning thread over into the NFL section...and, these "type" threads are the ones that stir up the divisiveness.

1) Luck is a Colt.

2) Even if it was a "Peyton thread", members start threads wherever they like. If you believe that the location is incorrect, all that you have to do is report the OP. A post like this does little but introduce even more divisiveness.

The rules, at times on this forum, confuse me. I thought all Peyton threads were to be posted in the NFL section... I must have not understood.

The reason this thread hasn't been moved is because it pertains to a current Colt player. That's enough to make it relevant to the Colts. By contrast, the thread that was moved was specifically about whether Manning will make a good coach or not. Sadly, it had nothing to do with a current Colt player, and so it was moved to the appropriate section.

The reason this thread hasn't been closed is because it's been about football, not petty arguing between Manning fans and Luck fans. It has stayed on topic and it has been civil. Therefore, it's still open.

If a thread or a post seems to be out of place or against the rules to you, please report the post and the moderators will take a look at it.

[Nadine]

Thanks superman

I suspect that this is the new Manning v Brady topic

I suppose we need an emoticon for it

thanks to everyone who is posting to this thread in a reasonable way. Most of you are.

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