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Pats Cut Gonzo [Merge]

BuildtheMonster1285

By BuildtheMonster1285
in NFL General

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unitaswestand Walk On

unitaswestand

Posted
Posted

I feel badly for him. I always hate to see a good guy get derailed by injuries. You can't blame him for his body breaking down. He looked to be a very good receiver his first two years. But he simply cannot stay healthy.

throwing BBZ Ring of Honor

throwing BBZ

Posted
Posted

An example of a REACH to keep Peyton happy.

They passed on LaMarr Woodley, Eric Weddle, Sidney Rice.

2007 draft- so weak

Rd #1 Gonzo

Rd #2 Ugoh for a 1st and a 4th

Rd#3 Quinn Pitcock

Rd #4 Brannon Condren

Rd #4 Clint Session

Rd#5 Roy Hall

Rd#5 Michael Coe

Rd#7 Keyunta Dawson

KarlKuffs Walk On

KarlKuffs

Posted
Posted

An example of a REACH to keep Peyton happy.

They passed on LaMarr Woodley, Eric Weddle, Sidney Rice.

2007 draft- so weak

Rd #1 Gonzo

Rd #2 Ugoh for a 1st and a 4th

Rd#3 Quinn Pitcock

Rd #4 Brannon Condren

Rd #4 Clint Session

Rd#5 Roy Hall

Rd#5 Michael Coe

Rd#7 Keyunta Dawson

Polian at his finest.

21isSuperman Walk On

21isSuperman

Posted
Posted

An example of a REACH to keep Peyton happy.

They passed on LaMarr Woodley, Eric Weddle, Sidney Rice.

2007 draft- so weak

Rd #1 Gonzo

Rd #2 Ugoh for a 1st and a 4th

Rd#3 Quinn Pitcock

Rd #4 Brannon Condren

Rd #4 Clint Session

Rd#5 Roy Hall

Rd#5 Michael Coe

Rd#7 Keyunta Dawson

It's easy to say we passed on Player X in hindsight. Plus, Woodley has done well in the 3-4; who knows how he would have done in the 4-3. For those interested, I did an analysis of this draft class.

http://blogs.colts.com/2011/12/05/what-have-you-done-for-me-lately-polian-2/

MAC Walk On

MAC

Posted
Posted

An example of a REACH to keep Peyton happy.

They passed on LaMarr Woodley, Eric Weddle, Sidney Rice.

Well that's one way of looking at it.

The other is that any team can question any draft in hindsite - it's a largely pointless exercise. . Did you look at some of the players drafted before he was picked?

In addition, if healthy, I would rather have Gonzalez than Sidney Rice, Woodley is a 3-4 LB, and Weddle? The Colts had used 4 of their previous 5 first or second round picks on defense back at that point. To suggest that they should have taken another in the first round is silly. The Colts were anticipating the aging of Marvin Harrison, and aside from the fact that he unfortunately got injured, it was a terrific pick. It happens.

ReMeDy Practice Squad

ReMeDy

Posted
Posted

Maybe this will be a lesson that you play the odds and do not draft a white WR in the first round, and I can say that with all honesty because I'm white. We white men can't run or jump!

As far as this Pats signing goes, a poster in the article made a good point: Signing Gonzalez cost them virtually nothing. Why not take a look and see if he's recovered and ready to contribute? He was leverage to get Welker into camp. Now that it worked, mission accomplished.

JCPatriot Walk On

JCPatriot

Posted
Posted

The other is that any team can question any draft in hindsite - it's a largely pointless exercise. . Did you look at some of the players drafted before he was picked?

Come on. I know hindsight is a lot clearer (I don't think even hindsight is 20/20. I can think of several decisions that I have made that I am not sure what the "right" decision was, even looking backward.), but if you look at the list from that draft, you have to admit that it was a pretty weak draft. The only guy on that list that even came close to making a positive impact was Session. That entire draft was pretty much trashed.

JoKeR Walk On

JoKeR

Posted
Posted

Dang Gonzo and his alabaster skin tone! The plan was to use him in heavy snow games so he'd blend into the field. Talk about your all time backfires.

:sarcasm:

MAC Walk On

MAC

Posted
Posted

Come on. I know hindsight is a lot clearer (I don't think even hindsight is 20/20. I can think of several decisions that I have made that I am not sure what the "right" decision was, even looking backward.), but if you look at the list from that draft, you have to admit that it was a pretty weak draft. The only guy on that list that even came close to making a positive impact was Session. That entire draft was pretty much trashed.

I was just commenting on Gonzo because he is talked about as if he didn't deserve to be drafted where he was - that he is an example of a poor draft pick. I think that he was a terrific draft pick.

Absolutely the long-term results from that draft were a nightmare, and have a lot to do with where the Colts were today, but the Gonzalez, Ugoh and Pitcock situations were nothing less than bizarre. With a little luck this could have been an exceptional draft. The only way that I would "blame" Polian for it would be if the problems with those three were easily predictable in advance, but ignored. I have no reason to believe that that is the case.

JCPatriot Walk On

JCPatriot

Posted
Posted

Absolutely the long-term results from that draft were a nightmare, and have a lot to do with where the Colts were today, but the Gonzalez, Ugoh and Pitcock situations were nothing less than bizarre. With a little luck this could have been an exceptional draft. The only way that I would "blame" Polian for it would be if the problems with those three were easily predictable in advance, but ignored. I have no reason to believe that that is the case.

With Gonzo and Pitcock, I agree with you. As for Ugoh, though, one of the reasons that he slid to the second round was that many scouts questioned his desire to play, so there were some warning signs there.

I don't agree that Gonzo was a terrific pick. If he was a terrific pick, he would still be playing. Any 1st round pick that does not start for your team and make significant contributions is a bad pick. Now, I'm not trying to rail on Polian. Every GM is going to make some bad picks. That's part of the job. There are just too many unknowns not to. Luck does play a part because no matter how thoroughly you scout, you can't assess every aspect of a potential draft pick. When Luck starts to become a pattern, though, then you have problems. If you look at that draft from top to bottom, there was definitely a pattern.

MAC Walk On

MAC

Posted
Posted

With Gonzo and Pitcock, I agree with you. As for Ugoh, though, one of the reasons that he slid to the second round was that many scouts questioned his desire to play, so there were some warning signs there.

I don't agree that Gonzo was a terrific pick. If he was a terrific pick, he would still be playing. Any 1st round pick that does not start for your team and make significant contributions is a bad pick. Now, I'm not trying to rail on Polian. Every GM is going to make some bad picks. That's part of the job. There are just too many unknowns not to. Luck does play a part because no matter how thoroughly you scout, you can't assess every aspect of a potential draft pick. When Luck starts to become a pattern, though, then you have problems. If you look at that draft from top to bottom, there was definitely a pattern.

Sure, the bottom line is that he didn't work out - but the guy had the talent to be a tremendous receiver. I pulled up a highlight reel earlier in this thread. I'd take any of that in a starting WR any day - and he was just getting started. It's a darn shame the way his career has gone.

Pitcock was just a fruitloop. I'm frankly astonished that they weren't able to pick up HIS tendencies ahead of time.

Ugoh is a tough call. I'd actually made the same argument that you did to someone here (superman?) a while ago, and they had nicer things to say about him than I did. But where it gets complicated is where you say that they reached for him because they felt that they had to. It was such a strange deal that you had to wonder if they had strong hints that Glenn was planning on retiring. So if they had planned better would that have been avoided? That, more than anything, is the GMs responsibility.

JerodMayo51 Walk On

JerodMayo51

Posted
Posted

Come on. I know hindsight is a lot clearer (I don't think even hindsight is 20/20. I can think of several decisions that I have made that I am not sure what the "right" decision was, even looking backward.), but if you look at the list from that draft, you have to admit that it was a pretty weak draft. The only guy on that list that even came close to making a positive impact was Session. That entire draft was pretty much trashed.

The Patriots had some similar drafts in the late 2000's, but their last 2-3 drafts have been pretty solid and have helped them rebuild to the point they're at now.

I predict a lot of big name players being let go in the not so distant future to be able to extend contracts for players like Chung, Gronkowksi, Hernandez, McCourty, Spikes, Solder for starts... All of them are on their rookie deals and most will be nearing the end of their contract in the next 2 years.

They absolutely have no answer for a Vince Wilfork injury or him signing away with another team, but luckily they still have him for a few more years and can also franchise tag him 2 years in a row, if they can afford the salary cap hit he demands.

21isSuperman Walk On

21isSuperman

Posted
Posted

You think Phillip Wheeler is a good player? haha! The guy never did anything. Your grades are bonkers. JMO of course.

Wheeler improved every season he was in the league and last year was his best, in my opinion. He showed the ability to make some plays and his pass rushing ability really stood out for me. From what I remember about Wheeler, he had a strong ability to cause turnovers at crucial points. I think there was one against the Pats where he caused a fumble right near the goalline

Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

Posted
Posted

I was just commenting on Gonzo because he is talked about as if he didn't deserve to be drafted where he was - that he is an example of a poor draft pick. I think that he was a terrific draft pick.

Absolutely the long-term results from that draft were a nightmare, and have a lot to do with where the Colts were today, but the Gonzalez, Ugoh and Pitcock situations were nothing less than bizarre. With a little luck this could have been an exceptional draft. The only way that I would "blame" Polian for it would be if the problems with those three were easily predictable in advance, but ignored. I have no reason to believe that that is the case.

Only question about Ugoh was, as you say, whether he was an "I eat, sleep, breathe and spit football" type of person, and he reportedly wasn't. But he came out in his rookie year and played decent football, especially for a rookie, especially on a team coming off a Super Bowl, with a really good quarterback's well-being in his hands. But the physical tools were all there, and as a player, he was a good pick.

The reason the Ugoh deal becomes a double-whammy is because, not only did he not work out long-term, but we gave up a first round pick in a pretty deep draft to take a second round tackle in a thin draft. I still don't think that's a Polian failure, but that draft really didn't work out.

On Pitcock, not only was there no indication that he was a deserter, but he was fine throughout the offseason program in his sophomore season. It was incredibly weird that he turned around on the way to camp. Sounds like something a person would do if they knew that they weren't in shape and hadn't been putting in the work they should have.

And then Gonzo, like you said, was a fabulous prospect, and right on time. Marvin leaving after 2008 paved the way for Gonzo to step into the starting lineup, and based on what he'd done the previous two seasons, he could have been very productive. But whatever happened to him was unpredictable, and unfortunate. Again, not Polian's fault.

Playoffs2013 Walk On

Playoffs2013

Posted
Posted

Only question about Ugoh was, as you say, whether he was an "I eat, sleep, breathe and spit football" type of person, and he reportedly wasn't. But he came out in his rookie year and played decent football, especially for a rookie, especially on a team coming off a Super Bowl, with a really good quarterback's well-being in his hands. But the physical tools were all there, and as a player, he was a good pick.

The reason the Ugoh deal becomes a double-whammy is because, not only did he not work out long-term, but we gave up a first round pick in a pretty deep draft to take a second round tackle in a thin draft. I still don't think that's a Polian failure, but that draft really didn't work out.

On Pitcock, not only was there no indication that he was a deserter, but he was fine throughout the offseason program in his sophomore season. It was incredibly weird that he turned around on the way to camp. Sounds like something a person would do if they knew that they weren't in shape and hadn't been putting in the work they should have.

And then Gonzo, like you said, was a fabulous prospect, and right on time. Marvin leaving after 2008 paved the way for Gonzo to step into the starting lineup, and based on what he'd done the previous two seasons, he could have been very productive. But whatever happened to him was unpredictable, and unfortunate. Again, not Polian's fault.

i agree wayyyyyyy too many Polian haters here lets remember he brought us all the success that we've grown accustomed to
RGIII Walk On

RGIII

Posted
Posted

Just a thought but this may be less about Gonzo's fitness/health than it is the fact that the Patriots have Wes Welker, Deion Branch, Chad Ochocino, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth, and Julian Edelman all under contract in addition to the usual scrubs/camp bodies.

21isSuperman Walk On

21isSuperman

Posted
Posted

Just a thought but this may be less about Gonzo's fitness/health than it is the fact that the Patriots have Wes Welker, Deion Branch, Chad Ochocino, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth, and Julian Edelman all under contract in addition to the usual scrubs/camp bodies.

Agreed. And all of those guys have played with Brady before. And the Pats just signed Lloyd to a contract, so they probably won't let him go anywhere.

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