With All This Talk About Improving Our Backup Qb Situation....

[coltfaninnewyork]

Had my eye on Feely as well. He did look polished. I also thought Rosenfels playing behind Peyton's lil bro in NY would've been a solid insurance policy.

Brace yourself,is david carr out there?

[Mouthfire]

Had my eye on Feely as well. He did look polished. I also thought Rosenfels playing behind Peyton's lil bro in NY would've been a solid insurance policy.

Who? Helicopter boy? Nooooooooo thank you!!!! ;)

[ruksak]

Who? Helicopter boy? Nooooooooo thank you!!!! ;)

Ohhh c'mon. Rosencopter was classic.

He throws better than he hurls himself headlong into defensive ends. We all make mistakes, even the great Manning does so on occasion.

[unitaswestand]

I really don't think that's what we need. If Manning goes down, there's no replacing him. No one's going to be able to man the QB spot to Manning's level. The offense, as it stands now, completely hinges on Manning's cognitive football skills. You're not going to find anyone who can do it at his level, and you're certainly not going to be able to teach someone to do it. Eli Manning has been around Peyton his whole life and arguably has greater physical tools. If he can't pick up Peyton's recognition skills, I doubt you can teach it to anyone. Manning's simply a unique and once-in-a-lifetime talent....

Personally, I think what you do is develop the run game to more formidable level. The Colt's offense has been way too skewed towards passing for way too long. Fixing this does a few critical things:

1) It makes the offense less reliant on Manning. Peyton's arguably the greatest QB that's ever played, but even his skills and recognition skills have failed him at certain critical times. Hey, it happens... he's human. But by making the run game more prominent, you ease the burden on Manning... so when he does having one of his infrequent bad moments, there is less heck to pay for it.

2) You make the offense more potent overall. This offense was best when it had a premier running game (ie the Edgerrin James days) that would set up the play-action pass. You're going to fix a lot of problems with the offense by re-instating this.

3) And finally (and most relevant to this discussion), by installing a formidable running attack, you don't need a premier backup QB in case Manning goes down. You just need someone serviceable to run the offense and not turn the ball over. You don't ask him to win the game... you simply ask him to be a caretaker. Curtis Painter can fill that role. Dan Orlovsky can fill that role. Heck, even Jim Sorgi can fill that role. If Manning goes down, you just lean on the running game until Manning comes back. You can even win a SB with a caretaker QB... witness Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

I feel that the Colts are already moving in this direction by drafting Castanzo and Ijalana, as well as beefing up the line with McClendon and others. When Manning retires, that's really the time to draft his replacement (not now), which IMO will require revamping the entire offense to a more standard passing attack.

TL,DR version: I think you'll get a lot more bang-for-the-buck by improving the run game than wasting time/money in a higher-quality backup QB who 1) likely won't see the field, and 2) likely won't be your long-term starter once Manning retires

I liked the points you make here and agree with you. I honestly don't think the Painter and Sorgi are that bad of QBs. I honestly think if either was in NE, they would look great. The offense we run depends on precision that possibly few people can run. So unless we developer more a running game, we will also be pretty much Peyton or bust

[Smitto]

Help me out here....I have never, ever, not once seen Painter put together a drive for a TOUCHDOWN.....

How many regular season games have curtis painter played? I know a good QB when i see one and i can assure you come friday night you will not be saying the same thing. If Collie had went up for that pass it wouldnt have been a pic, he was scared of getting layed out thats why.

[Smitto]

Maybe... and again, this is just my take on things.

Just a few points:

1) Garcon's a bit of an anomaly, but then again, he was almost a throwaway late pick. Wayne, Gonzalez, and Collie all fit that profile, and were targeted with high draft picks, which tells me that's really what they look for in WRs.

2) No further comment.

3) I disagree. I distinctly remember that blocking was one of the reasons the front office cited for why the Colts liked Addai with the pick that year. Your scouting report is inaccurate. He was actually a pretty accomplished blocker out of LSU.

Source: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/405288

If you read that scouting report out of his days at LSU, it sounds exactly like what we got out of Addai as a blocker. My memory might be a bit fuzzy, but I also seem to remember him being a pretty good blocker his rookie year with the Colts.

4) Fair enough.

5) You can still have a FB and still keep Dallas as the single TE.

6) Fair enough.

Regarding the defense, yeah... that might be a bit of a stretch. But then again, you could argue that Tony Dungy was brought to the Colts in 2002 because they knew they were going to get a lot of big leads with Manning (who was already there 3-4 years), which plays directly to the strength of the Tampa 2 to get to the QB in obvious passing situations.

Well some reports always differ, but i do know one thing there is no way a team drafts a QB because he's a good blocker Backs can be taught that so thats not even a concern. In all this i stand firmly on Painter being the best backup the colts have had since peyton has been here and i stand by that. Great skill set, i expect him to do much better against a much better defense at that.

[HGRekks]

I'm probably in the minority here, but from what was shown of Sorgi in actual games and the preseason, I thought he was an excellent backup as a game manager. He wasn't a dynamic QB or the most gifted guy, but he didn't make many mistakes and could handle pressure. He got the ball to where it needed to be and moved the offensive efficiently. He probably wasn't going to be a 10 win backup, but I think he is/was better than people think.

But I agree about the running game.

[Malakai432]

Curtis Painter is the greatest QB in NFL history. Here is a quote from Peyton Manning himself regarding Curtis.

"Curtis Painter has unlimited potential and is easily the best quarterback in the league. He is a guaranteed future member of the hall of fame. I wouldn't be where I am today without the help of the legendary Curtis Painter who has showed me that hard work pays off. Winning 5 consecutive super bowls, Curtis has shown me what it takes to become a champion. He has solidified himself as the best quarterback there is and ever will be."

-Peyton Manning

I forgot the link though but it's 100% true lol!!!!!!

[WisconsinColts]

I'm probably in the minority here, but from what was shown of Sorgi in actual games and the preseason, I thought he was an excellent backup as a game manager. He wasn't a dynamic QB or the most gifted guy, but he didn't make many mistakes and could handle pressure. He got the ball to where it needed to be and moved the offensive efficiently. He probably wasn't going to be a 10 win backup, but I think he is/was better than people think.

But I agree about the running game.

I'm gonna agree that Sorgi was pretty good, he is a free agent right now by the way. However, despite the fact that I don't like Painter I think he has been unfairly criticized to a degree. Is he a good player? Not really. But he was thrown into the worst possible position he could have been back in 2009. I think if that doesn't happen we, the fans, don't hate on him as much, we still would. Keep in mind, though, he could be good someday. I live in Wisconsin so I got to watch four years of Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett Favre and let me tell you Aaron Rodgers was terrible his first few years. There were people who thought he shouldn't be on the team, I kid you not. Truthfully, he was pretty bad in his first two years or so. Maybe Painter just needs time to grow?

[icf]

Here's another take.....

http://www.ibj.com/the-score/2011/08/15/favre-may-be-answer-to-question-colts-dont-want-to-ask/PARAMS/post/28929

Brett Favre, anyone??

[ruksak]

Well some reports always differ, but i do know one thing there is no way a team drafts a QB because he's a good blocker Backs can be taught that so thats not even a concern. In all this i stand firmly on Painter being the best backup the colts have had since peyton has been here and i stand by that. Great skill set, i expect him to do much better against a much better defense at that.

Sorgi > Painter

Sorry, I'm not sure what tangible evidence you're going on here with the assertions that Painter is a "Good QB" with a "Great skill set"? Nevermind a drive, I cannot remember a play in which he displayed any such gifts.

[Smitto]

Sorgi > Painter

Sorry, I'm not sure what tangible evidence you're going on here with the assertions that Painter is a "Good QB" with a "Great skill set"? Nevermind a drive, I cannot remember a play in which he displayed any such gifts.

Sorgi was horrid, you ppl like Sorgi because he didnt stink up the colts chance for an undefeated season. The guy was like a 1yr starter with a weak arm and he look like a pizza boy.

Curtis on the other hand has a strong arm athletic compared to sorgi and was once considered to be a 1st round pick in his junior campaign. Ill take painter over sorgi all day... Kinda makes you wonder if he was that good of a backup why is he on the streets now.

[icf]

Sorgi was horrid, you ppl like Sorgi because he didnt stink up the colts chance for an undefeated season. The guy was like a 1yr starter with a weak arm and he look like a pizza boy.

Curtis on the other hand has a strong arm athletic compared to sorgi and was once considered to be a 1st round pick in his junior campaign. Ill take painter over sorgi all day... Kinda makes you wonder if he was that good of a backup why is he on the streets now.

Are you related to Painter?

Sorgi's 1st game action came as a rookie in 2004 - he went 17/29 -- 2 TD / 0 INT's and had a rating of 99.1. In his career, he went 99/156 (63.5%) and threw 6 TD's / 1 Int and has a career passer rating of 89.9. He had 1 fubmble.

Painter is his 2 (and hopefully last) reg season games as a Colt went 8 / 28 and threw 2 picks. His QB rating is 9.8 and he also fumbled twice.

So....in 128 fewer attempts he has doubled the career interception total of Sorgi and has a QB rating that you probably assume is a typo and also lost more fumbles.

Nobody is saying Sorgi was a good QB....but he's light years better than Painter.

[Malakai432]

They are both absolute monsters in the NFL world. No need to argue here, any team would be happy to have either Painter or Sorgi starting for them.. Respected and feared they both are!!! lol

[ruksak]

They are both absolute monsters in the NFL world. No need to argue here, any team would be happy to have either Painter or Sorgi starting for them.. Respected and feared they both are!!! lol

It was just pointed out, quite well I might add, by ICF that Sorgi displayed the ability to manage a game without causing undue hardship on the team. Conversely, Painter has presented himself thus far as a liability to the team. I don't wreck on Painter for the Buffalo game, that would be unfair. I have no reason, nor does anybody, NO REASON to boast Painter as anything but a liability.

Nobody can post a single shred of evidence to the contrary, and this is quite telling.

[JoKeR]

I'd like to see Nate Davis get snaps with the first team, he seemed to have decent accuracy and mobility. Painter is Manning lite, extra lite, I'd rather have someone more versatile.

[Smitto]

Are you related to Painter?

Sorgi's 1st game action came as a rookie in 2004 - he went 17/29 -- 2 TD / 0 INT's and had a rating of 99.1. In his career, he went 99/156 (63.5%) and threw 6 TD's / 1 Int and has a career passer rating of 89.9. He had 1 fubmble.

Painter is his 2 (and hopefully last) reg season games as a Colt went 8 / 28 and threw 2 picks. His QB rating is 9.8 and he also fumbled twice.

So....in 128 fewer attempts he has doubled the career interception total of Sorgi and has a QB rating that you probably assume is a typo and also lost more fumbles.

Nobody is saying Sorgi was a good QB....but he's light years better than Painter.

Do i look like im related to painter?

Like i said before fans are mad at painter cause the colts didnt go undefeated. You should have pointed out that Sorgi only played when the colts were dominating and never against a beast of a defense like the jets. Its easy to say sorgi was a great backup when he wasnt put into Painter's situation, Painter is better hands down and you will see that come friday. Painter over Soggy all day.

[ruksak]

Do i look like im related to painter?

Dunno what you look like?

Painter is better hands down and you will see that come friday. Painter over Soggy all day.

I'm going to hold you to this brother. In a friendly way, but I will hold you to this. For the good of the team, I hope you're right. I'll be rooting for him because he's a Colt, as of now, but if he craps his tights again, I'm going to remind you of your flawed prophecy.

On a related note; I heard they tried to make a Curtis Painter Fathead but it wouldn't stick unless you covered it up with a Manning.

[icf]

Like i said before fans are mad at painter cause the colts didnt go undefeated. You should have pointed out that Sorgi only played when the colts were dominating and never against a beast of a defense like the jets. Its easy to say sorgi was a great backup when he wasnt put into Painter's situation, Painter is better hands down and you will see that come friday. Painter over Soggy all day.

Painter's Pre-season Qb ratings are:

2009 - 64.3

2010 - 49.1

2011 - 42.4

During those games he's completed 55% of his passes and thrown 1 TD vs 7 INT's. One might think that if he were so great and playing against the 2nd / 3rd team defenses of other teams he might not have had such crappy performances.

I hope you're right (but I doubt it) and Painter does great things Friday and the rest of the preseason and proves he's deserving of an NFL paycheck....cause I wonder if Manning will really be able to start on opening day.

[Smitto]

Dunno what you look like?

I'm going to hold you to this brother. In a friendly way, but I will hold you to this. For the good of the team, I hope you're right. I'll be rooting for him because he's a Colt, as of now, but if he craps his tights again, I'm going to remind you of your flawed prophecy.

On a related note; I heard they tried to make a Curtis Painter Fathead but it wouldn't stick unless you covered it up with a Manning.

You must be blind then cause thats me in that avatar photo... You can hold me to it all you want but the colts players know what Painter can do if wayne is high on him then i know for sure he can play, It'll happen come friday.

[ruksak]

You must be blind then cause thats me in that avatar photo... You can hold me to it all you want but the colts players know what Painter can do if wayne is high on him then i know for sure he can play, It'll happen come friday.

Not blind or presumptuous. BTW...thats NOT me in my avatar photo.

[HGRekks]

You must be blind then cause thats me in that avatar photo... You can hold me to it all you want but the colts players know what Painter can do if wayne is high on him then i know for sure he can play, It'll happen come friday.

Realistically, this is the most action Wayne has seen from him. The quote where Wayne said he liked Painter was 1.) early into camp, probably before pads came on, and 2.) were related to a teammate, so I doubt he'd be negative. Painter looks the part physical, and he can throw as well as anyone without pressure on him. I've seen him at practice, and he gets it done. Come game time, though, he has a lot of problems with pressure.

At that, I'm all for giving him a chance in the preseason, as long as someone else is given a chance to compete with similar playing time as well.

[WisconsinColts]

I'd like to see Nate Davis get snaps with the first team, he seemed to have decent accuracy and mobility. Painter is Manning lite, extra lite, I'd rather have someone more versatile.

Won't be seeing that.

My link

[chad72]

At that, I'm all for giving him a chance in the preseason, as long as someone else is given a chance to compete with similar playing time as well.

I think we will see Orlovsky get some good playing time and Painter's playing time ramped up now that Nate Davis is gone. I do believe they may be serious about a 3rd QB on the roster this year if the QBs can show something.

Still not sure why Tolzien of Wisconsin chose the Chargers behind Volek and Rivers instead of the Colts who did want him as an UDFA. At least Tolzien had a shot as a back up QB here, better than with the Chargers where Volek has run that Chargers offense as a back up for much longer than Painter has done so here. Oh well!!!

[Smitto]

Not blind or presumptuous. BTW...thats NOT me in my avatar photo.

And i was just gonna praise you for being able to type too.... shucks.

[ruksak]

And i was just gonna praise you for being able to type too.... shucks.

?questionmark?

[Smitto]

Realistically, this is the most action Wayne has seen from him. The quote where Wayne said he liked Painter was 1.) early into camp, probably before pads came on, and 2.) were related to a teammate, so I doubt he'd be negative. Painter looks the part physical, and he can throw as well as anyone without pressure on him. I've seen him at practice, and he gets it done. Come game time, though, he has a lot of problems with pressure.

At that, I'm all for giving him a chance in the preseason, as long as someone else is given a chance to compete with similar playing time as well.

I would think he is still high on painter, the thing i dont understand is ppl are super quick to judge painter on two possesions, that pass he threw to collie could have been caught by collie he didnt even try to catch it cause he was scared, but friday should be a good game to see how painter really is.

[Smitto]

?questionmark?

Cant even pay attention to your own sarcasm lol, we all know your not an actual skunk. thats why i said that about the whole typing thing.

[GoPats]

Been following along, and the thing is...

Outside of the end of the 2010 season when the Colts pulled their starters, you haven't seen much of the Colts backups over the past, oh, 13 years or so! That happens when you have an extremely durable and consistent QB like Manning.

The Colts haven't usually gone the route of getting an aging, veteran QB like a Volek or a Mark Brunell type. Usually they've drafted low-round QBs and worked to develop them. Not telling you guys anything you don't know, but the point is, most back-ups are pretty much unknown commodities.

No one, prior to 2008, though Matt Cassel was even serviceable as a QB in the NFL. He was horrible in most preseason games. (Sound familiar?) The very little game action he saw... horrible in those, too. (Again, sound familiar?) Then Brady goes down, Cassel steps in, and by the end of the season he's playing well enough to get traded for a second-round pick.

Until a back-up fully takes over for a starter -- meaning, he gets all the reps at practices, and the coaches implement a game plan that accounts for his skills or the anticipated drop-off in skills from the starter -- you don't really know what you have.

But if you toss Curtis Painter into a game and expect him to perform like Peyton Manning, well... that won't happen. Ever.

[chad72]

that pass he threw to collie could have been caught by collie he didnt even try to catch it cause he was scared

That is where I think you are wrong. He overthrew Collie sufficiently enough in velocity and distance that Collie would have had to do a circus catch in order to get it. Besides, Collie was not sitting in a soft zone, he was in stride moving to his right with the ball thrown over his head and a tad behind to the left too.

Painter did fine on the next drive but for some reason, I feel that Sorgi gave us more from the back up position than Painter has so far. You felt better about Sorgi being a game manager than Painter. Painter feels like a boom or bust type, the highs and lows have more range. At least that is how I feel. Just my opinion.

[Mouthfire]

I would think he is still high on painter, the thing i dont understand is ppl are super quick to judge painter on two possesions, that pass he threw to collie could have been caught by collie he didnt even try to catch it cause he was scared, but friday should be a good game to see how painter really is.

I actually don't think Painter played that badly. Apart from the pick (which reallywas his fault), he really settled down and started moving the chains. Of course, he didn't get a TD out of it, but the that fadeout route in the end zone to Gonzo is a pretty tough one to make.

[Smitto]

That is where I think you are wrong. He overthrew Collie sufficiently enough in velocity and distance that Collie would have had to do a circus catch in order to get it. Besides, Collie was not sitting in a soft zone, he was in stride moving to his right with the ball thrown over his head and a tad behind to the left too.

Painter did fine on the next drive but for some reason, I feel that Sorgi gave us more from the back up position than Painter has so far. You felt better about Sorgi being a game manager than Painter. Painter feels like a boom or bust type, the highs and lows have more range. At least that is how I feel. Just my opinion.

I went back and look at that pass and collie just looked at the pass go over his head, it looked catachable to me i wasnt on the field so idk but it looked like he could have caught it if he really wanted to, just like that garcon catch he turned his back to catch it. Thats why i never though much of Sorgi cause of the "Game manager" tag, if the colts are losing no one wants a "Game manager" they want someone that can change the game and score.

[chad72]

I went back and look at that pass and collie just looked at the pass go over his head, it looked catachable to me i wasnt on the field so idk but it looked like he could have caught it if he really wanted to, just like that garcon catch he turned his back to catch it. Thats why i never though much of Sorgi cause of the "Game manager" tag, if the colts are losing no one wants a "Game manager" they want someone that can change the game and score.

True that Painter may have a bigger arm than Sorgi but in the NFL, one needs to not lose the game before winning it because NFL Ds are good enough to capitalize on your mistakes and field position is more important than people realize that turnovers give easy field position for NFL Os. Unless Painter has that much upside as a Brett Favre, the gun slinging mistakes have to be minimized before plays can be made, IMO. Along those lines, Sorgi was a safer bet.

The true value of a back up for our system would only be relevant in a season if Peyton gets hurt with about 2 or 3 games to go in the season but could come back for the playoffs, we should be confident that we can win those games with a back up and take our chances in the playoffs.

[BIGugly]

Painter's Pre-season Qb ratings are:

2009 - 64.3

2010 - 49.1

2011 - 42.4

During those games he's completed 55% of his passes and thrown 1 TD vs 7 INT's. One might think that if he were so great and playing against the 2nd / 3rd team defenses of other teams he might not have had such crappy performances.

I hope you're right (but I doubt it) and Painter does great things Friday and the rest of the preseason and proves he's deserving of an NFL paycheck....cause I wonder if Manning will really be able to start on opening day.

Not doubting what you have posted, but can you tell me about the TD he threw? I cannot remember it.

[icf]

Not doubting what you have posted, but can you tell me about the TD he threw? I cannot remember it.

Can't tell you anything about it, I just pulled the stats from the Colts website.....

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=stats&season=2010&preseason=1

[GwinnettColt]

I want to like Curtis Painter; I really do. I saw him throw two interceptions at a flag football charity game-no joke.

As far as a backup, we'll do what we've always done. Keep Painter (Sorgi) and put the rest of the QB's on the practice squad even though they played better in the preseason.

I wouldn't mind seeing Indy look at Culpepper; I'm not a fan but he is a veteran and could at least help us for a game or two if needed. (awaiting angry responses)...

[coltfaninnewyork]

Painter knows the system,that's a positive. Negative, Painter is not a nfl caliber back-up qb.

[BIGugly]

Can't tell you anything about it, I just pulled the stats from the Colts website.....

http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=stats&season=2010&preseason=1

Do not remember it. But apparently it was on 8-19-2010 at Buffalo. He hit 5 out of 6 for 97 yds., no INT's,, 1 TD, and a QB rating of 158. Will search my archives for the tape, but generally tape over preseason games. You'd think I'd remember such an outstanding performance, especially since it was just last year. Thanks for the lead.

BIGgulies win football games

[Smitto]

True that Painter may have a bigger arm than Sorgi but in the NFL, one needs to not lose the game before winning it because NFL Ds are good enough to capitalize on your mistakes and field position is more important than people realize that turnovers give easy field position for NFL Os. Unless Painter has that much upside as a Brett Favre, the gun slinging mistakes have to be minimized before plays can be made, IMO. Along those lines, Sorgi was a safer bet.

The true value of a back up for our system would only be relevant in a season if Peyton gets hurt with about 2 or 3 games to go in the season but could come back for the playoffs, we should be confident that we can win those games with a back up and take our chances in the playoffs.

That is true and with TIME painter will significantly reduce those mistakes... we cannot forget peytons rookie season now just imagine if he was in painters position just pushed into that game, does anyone here honestly believe he would have done any better? ppl need to understand that being a QB especially in the nfl is not an easy task but after seeing the little that painter did in the rams game he looks calm and will only progress.

[coltfaninnewyork]

That is true and with TIME painter will significantly reduce those mistakes... we cannot forget peytons rookie season now just imagine if he was in painters position just pushed into that game, does anyone here honestly believe he would have done any better? ppl need to understand that being a QB especially in the nfl is not an easy task but after seeing the little that painter did in the rams game he looks calm and will only progress.

Putting painter and peyton in the same sentence is unholy.You keep singing the praises of this guy,why?Peyton was thrown into the fire,first practice on.