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where did you watch them? I cant find them, and we will see in this new system what they do, Im hoping the Colts get Amerson next year, hes a game changer

NFL.com. For 30 bucks you can watch every NFL game from the past three seasons.

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I don't think we'll know how good he and Rucker are until they start playing in this D. We don't know if it was coaching/scheme holding them back last year, or talent.

Most writers say we have the worst D backfield in the league. They may be right, with Bethea our only proven player. Or it may have been the "cushion" they were taught to allow in the T2.

My belief is it was the "cushion" that prohibited play and ability. We never really can know how good are players are if they are 5 yds off the receivers every play. That being said we should get a better gage on how they play in this system which requires a little more man, and zone blitzing giving our back 4 a chance to make more plays on the ball.

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Matt Stafford, prior to last season, had shown nothing that he would be good. 19TDs, 20INTS. 54.5% completion percentage.

I'll give you a hint, he didn't suck last year.

I am not saying that Kevin Thomas will do the same, but simply saying, a player's first 1 or 2 years is not an absolute measure of how they'll stack up as an NFL player.

matt stafford was the first pick in the draft, that gave people reason to think he'd be good. kevin thomas was a second or third round draft pick... You guys are way to defensive of the guy. I would like to see him do good, but I just don't see it happening.

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matt stafford was the first pick in the draft, that gave people reason to think he'd be good. kevin thomas was a second or third round draft pick... You guys are way to defensive of the guy. I would like to see him do good, but I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, you're right, teams have absolutely no expectation past the first round.

Honestly, I am not saying the guy will be good, I am saying there is still a chance. Our coaching, defensive especially, has flat out sucked for several years. Writing off anyone because of poor performance without taking that into account is short-sighted at best.

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Yeah, you're right, teams have absolutely no expectation past the first round.

Honestly, I am not saying the guy will be good, I am saying there is still a chance. Our coaching, defensive especially, has flat out sucked for several years. Writing off anyone because of poor performance without taking that into account is short-sighted at best.

what about the fact the guy cant stay on the field
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Yeah, you're right, teams have absolutely no expectation past the first round.

Honestly, I am not saying the guy will be good, I am saying there is still a chance. Our coaching, defensive especially, has flat out sucked for several years. Writing off anyone because of poor performance without taking that into account is short-sighted at best.

I can agree there is a chance he'll someday be a solid backup. But I don't ever see the guy becoming a good starter, which I catch that vibe from people on here.

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what about the fact the guy cant stay on the field

It seems a little early to me to be convinced of much one way or another with strong opinions on our DB's. To say our defensive backs, including Thomas, are unproven....that seems like a supportable notion right now. To be concerned about the overall coverage ability of our secondary....that also seems rational to me. However, opinions that are conclusive about the futures of young, unproven players are hard for me to follow.

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Thomas isnt proven because he cant stay on the field the guy is injury prone, Jerraud Powers was way over drafted, some had him as only a POSSIBLE draft pick and we went ahead and drafted him in the 3rd round

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what about the fact the guy cant stay on the field

He's still young. There is a chance, perhaps a small one, that he can improve his conditioning and be on the field 16 games a year. Likely? Perhaps not, but he is what we have.

In any case, I am not being overly optimistic about the guy. Just saying that none of our guys have been in a system where success is possible (except for Freeney and Mathis).

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I can agree there is a chance he'll someday be a solid backup. But I don't ever see the guy becoming a good starter, which I catch that vibe from people on here.

Ever hear of James Harrison? Practice squad dumped player time and time again, turned DPOY?

Ever hear of Antonia Garay? Career backup turned starter.

There are plenty of names out there where players have had lackluster starts to their careers but winded up contributing after a few years in the league. Not every player is a day one starter. Some players have the athleticism but lack the technique. Some have the technique, but lack the athleticism. There's a world of possible problems that a player may have, but some eventually overcome their problems and become starters.

Kurt Warner, Adam Vinatieri, Flutie, Cameron Wake. Plenty of people don't even get into the NFL for a few years. These things happen. To suspect that a guy who has been in the league two years has 0 shot of becoming even a solid starter is not looking at the history of the NFL and seeing the players that have risen above the odds and become great players.

All in all, I am not suggesting that Thomas will become great. He might be good, he might ok, and he might suck for an eternity. I dunno. The possibility still exists, however, that he can put his solid athleticism to good use and become a decent starter for us.

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How many times did Kevin Thomas appear on the injury report last season?

your right congratulations he played 9 games last year and was benched......for a reason none of us know, how much time did he miss at USC? nearly three seasons with shoulder problems and ankle and foot problems, Let me be clear, Im not saying he cant play, Im not saying he wont stay healthy this year, I am saying however that we dont know if he can play because he is almost always injured. The likelihood that he goes from being injury prone, yes injury prone, his injury history while playing football isnt good to a good starting Corner is very unlikely, we have him now so yes lets see what he can do this year. Im not expecting anything cause he hasnt shown anything but with that said if he dont produce for one reason or another you dont keep that player
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your right congratulations he played 9 games last year and was benched......for a reason none of us know, how much time did he miss at USC? nearly three seasons with shoulder problems and ankle and foot problems, Let me be clear, Im not saying he cant play, Im not saying he wont stay healthy this year, I am saying however that we dont know if he can play because he is almost always injured. The likelihood that he goes from being injury prone, yes injury prone, his injury history while playing football isnt good to a good starting Corner is very unlikely, we have him now so yes lets see what he can do this year. Im not expecting anything cause he hasnt shown anything but with that said if he dont produce for one reason or another you dont keep that player

So, in summary:

You didn't think KT could be a starter because he's a zone guy instead of a man to man guy, until someone pointed out that he played a lot of man to man in college. And then he couldn't be a starter because last year when he saw the field he played horribly, until someone pointed out that he has watched all the games from last year paying specific attention to KT and his play and he felt that KT's play was pretty good and felt the scheme was more to blame than anything. And then, he can't be a starter because he's injury prone, until someone pointed out that he was not on the injured list at all.

Why not just state that you don't think KT can be a starter because you don't like him. That would be more accurate than anything else you've tried to claim.

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Ever hear of James Harrison? Practice squad dumped player time and time again, turned DPOY?

Ever hear of Antonia Garay? Career backup turned starter.

There are plenty of names out there where players have had lackluster starts to their careers but winded up contributing after a few years in the league. Not every player is a day one starter. Some players have the athleticism but lack the technique. Some have the technique, but lack the athleticism. There's a world of possible problems that a player may have, but some eventually overcome their problems and become starters.

Kurt Warner, Adam Vinatieri, Flutie, Cameron Wake. Plenty of people don't even get into the NFL for a few years. These things happen. To suspect that a guy who has been in the league two years has 0 shot of becoming even a solid starter is not looking at the history of the NFL and seeing the players that have risen above the odds and become great players.

All in all, I am not suggesting that Thomas will become great. He might be good, he might ok, and he might suck for an eternity. I dunno. The possibility still exists, however, that he can put his solid athleticism to good use and become a decent starter for us.

your naming off a bunch of hall of famers. there is a very select few who actually come out of nothing and turn out to be great, just because someone like Adam Vinatieri can do it, doesn't mean kevin thomas can. I can go down the list of failed second or third round picks, and it will far outweigh the handful of players who turned out to be great.

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Haven't posted here yet...

Rucker is better than Thomas. He's a much better tackler, actually Rucker was one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the league last year and Thomas was one of the worst.

Thomas was also beat a lot, with the Julio Jones 80 yard TD coming to mind. Rucker looked great at the nickelback spot and shined in the Chiefs, Titans and Panthers game.

Unfortunately, with the Colts being thin at CB, it looks like Thomas will be playing on the outside, with Rucker at nickeblack and Powers at the other outside spot.

Call me crazy, but Powers could compete for a Pro Bowl spot next year.

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Haven't posted here yet...

Rucker is better than Thomas. He's a much better tackler, actually Rucker was one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the league last year and Thomas was one of the worst.

Thomas was also beat a lot, with the Julio Jones 80 yard TD coming to mind. Rucker looked great at the nickelback spot and shined in the Chiefs, Titans and Panthers game.

Unfortunately, with the Colts being thin at CB, it looks like Thomas will be playing on the outside, with Rucker at nickeblack and Powers at the other outside spot.

Call me crazy, but Powers could compete for a Pro Bowl spot next year.

Crazy! LOL

I agreed with everything you said up until that last bit though lol. Rucker is a more physical corner who is better in run support. Thomas has the speed and size you dream of in a corner but it just hasn't translated on the field. We will see how this goes. I was a big proponent of taking a corner in the draft because of our injury concerns with our secondary but it appears we may have some help from the UDFA stock so who knows we may still be ok.

It all comes down to the front 7 anyways because if they can get pressure we could have Revis back there and it won't help. These guys won't be able to cover all day back there.

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I think I saw something about Moala being moved to end for the reasons you said. Honestly he's a little undersized for a DT in the NFL so he might work very well as a 3-4 end.

I think the plan is to keep Nevis at DT for now probably when we play the 4-3 in our 4-3 hybrid part of the defense.

Nevis is already working at the starting right defensive end opposite Redding

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your naming off a bunch of hall of famers. there is a very select few who actually come out of nothing and turn out to be great, just because someone like Adam Vinatieri can do it, doesn't mean kevin thomas can. I can go down the list of failed second or third round picks, and it will far outweigh the handful of players who turned out to be great.

I am not going to throw out a bunch of names no one has ever heard of. The simple point remains, players that start of being unworthy of a roster spot on a 53 man squad can still end up being average, good, or great NFL talent. It happens. The idea of throwing Thomas out because he hasn't performed in our poor excuse of a defense is hard to agree with considering just about everyone in our defense sucked last year save for a few.

Also, if I recall, Ladarius Webb didn't exactly light the world on fire until last season, his first season with Pagano as his DC. Coincidentally, that was Ladarious Webb's 3rd season.

Yeesh, some of you simply can't seem to understand the concept of growth and improvement. You seem to think if a QB doesn't come out and light the world on fire ala Cam Newton, he must not be worth two cents. Just understand that the NFL is a different league. It takes some players time to acclimate. Some don't, some do. I'd just like to give our current guys a chance before we throw them under the bus. If Pagano kept the Ravens' defense in the top 3 while having several older players and some new ones thrown into the mix, I'd like to wait and see what he can do with what he's brought in here.

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Thomas isnt proven because he cant stay on the field the guy is injury prone, Jerraud Powers was way over drafted, some had him as only a POSSIBLE draft pick and we went ahead and drafted him in the 3rd round

And now you expect me to respect your evaluation of Thomas?

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So, in summary:

You didn't think KT could be a starter because he's a zone guy instead of a man to man guy, until someone pointed out that he played a lot of man to man in college. And then he couldn't be a starter because last year when he saw the field he played horribly, until someone pointed out that he has watched all the games from last year paying specific attention to KT and his play and he felt that KT's play was pretty good and felt the scheme was more to blame than anything. And then, he can't be a starter because he's injury prone, until someone pointed out that he was not on the injured list at all.

Why not just state that you don't think KT can be a starter because you don't like him. That would be more accurate than anything else you've tried to claim.

Thomas wasnt on the injury list at all? are you blocking out his rookie year or how about all the time he spent rehabbing his shoulder and knees and foot at USC and being a Nickel Corner the majority of the time he played at USC, Also why was he benched after 9 games if he was playing well? I highly doubt he was benched because he was playing good so that leaves either poor play or he wasnt completely healthy as far as our scheme goes, it wasnt that our Corners played so much 6-7-8 yards off at the line of scrimmage sure we did that, but we werent the only teams to play off wide receivers like that, it was more when the ball was caught the cushion we gave for the receivers to run after the catch combined with bad tackling, Im not certain but I am not sure thats a scheme issue but I could be wrong, As for me not liking Thomas thats a bit silly to say, I dont even know the guy, I know he was overdrafted by the Colts however, I know he hasnt been able to stay healthy, I know he was benched after 9 games

2005 - At USC played in 9 games on special teams and as a backup his freshman year 7 tackles 2 deflections missed 3 games do to mononucleosis

2006 - Played in 4 games starting the vs Arkansas before spraining his right ankle causing him to miss two games (Nebraska, Arizona). Returned for the next three games while starting 1 of them (Arizona State) in which he broke his left foot, sidelined the rest of the season.

2007 - Redshirted Junior year while recuperating from surgery on a sprained left shoulder suffered in prior to a spring practice

2008 - Appeared in 13 games as a back up and Nickel Back, Started two games (Washington State, Arizona). 14 tackles, 2 sacks , 7 deflections, 3 interceptions 1 returned for a touchdown

2009 - All Pac 10 Second Team

based on his Senior season he has shown some promise

A Man Cover Corner but enough body of work to warrant a 3rd round pick?

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Haven't posted here yet...

Rucker is better than Thomas. He's a much better tackler, actually Rucker was one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the league last year and Thomas was one of the worst.

Thomas was also beat a lot, with the Julio Jones 80 yard TD coming to mind. Rucker looked great at the nickelback spot and shined in the Chiefs, Titans and Panthers game.

Unfortunately, with the Colts being thin at CB, it looks like Thomas will be playing on the outside, with Rucker at nickeblack and Powers at the other outside spot.

Call me crazy, but Powers could compete for a Pro Bowl spot next year.

ok I got to admit Powers competing for a Pro Bowl spot is pretty insane
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If what you meant to say is that you took my comments to mean that I believe we're gonna draft QBs for the next ten years, then that is an issue you have with logical thought. Don't project that onto me. The fact that we're not going to draft another QB with the first selection in the 2013 draft does not magically translate into we're somehow going to default into drafting for position. It simply means we draft BPA that is not a QB. And frankly I find it embarrassing to have to explain that to some people. Really dude?

I have not said that we don't have needs. That has nothing to do with anything I have said; that we do not draft for position. I also said that the only person whose opinion matters has said unequivocally that we draft BPA. I went on to say Grigs behavior shows that he uses FA to go after positional "need" and the draft itself is BPA.

That may or may not be true. Just like it may or may not be true that their poor showings were the result of a poorly devised defense that put them out of position to make plays (the latter conclusion being bolstered by the fact that the man who was in charge of devising the defense and putting them in positions to make plays was fired during the season). Regardless "apparently" neither the Coaching staff nor Management agree with you...or at a minimum do not agree enough to go out and spend FA money on DBs (many of which were available).

So...if neither the Coaching staff nor Management think we have a DB problem...and we do not draft for position, you have no reason at all (past your personal hopes & dreams, like many other Colts fans) to think that we are going after a CB early in next year's draft.

You guys were screaming prior to this draft that we needed one and what happened? So why start chanting it again? To me that flies in the face of reality and makes no sense.

#1 they did sign a DB from the Ravens.

#2 they had little $$ to spend so they signed three guys to start on the O-Line ( a small need) Cory Redding and that NT.

FA Cornerbacks cost so much you build there through the draft 1st. Even if you had $10M to spend on one this off season what is the rush.

You don`t know what you have on the Current roster, and the team is going to stink for a couple years and you would be basically blowing $20M. IMO

Grigson was Quoted as saying they just missed out on a cornerback early in the draft. This would have been HIS BPA on his draft board.

You ask what happened. He DID NOT FALL to the Colts! How simple.

Cornerbacks, Pass rushers, Left Tackles provide the best value in the draft, AGREE?

We have NO REASON to believe they will draft a left tackle Early in 2013, correct?

So there is REASON to believe they will draft a CB with one of the first two picks in 2013, IMO.

Based on Value and the need for depth, IMO Grigson will be targeting "in his hopes and dreams" at least one BPA CB/S in the 1st 3 rds, for the next few years.

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Thomas wasnt on the injury list at all? are you blocking out his rookie year or how about all the time he spent rehabbing his shoulder and knees and foot at USC and being a Nickel Corner the majority of the time he played at USC

No, I was talking about last year.
Also why was he benched after 9 games if he was playing well?
He wasn't benched after 9 games, he was not active for the first 7 games, then active for the last nine with 5 starts and the primary nickel back in the other 4 games.
I highly doubt he was benched because he was playing good so that leaves either poor play or he wasnt completely healthy
It seems to me since your conclusion is based on an item that is false then your conclusion is false as well.
as far as our scheme goes, it wasnt that our Corners played so much 6-7-8 yards off at the line of scrimmage sure we did that, but we werent the only teams to play off wide receivers like that, it was more when the ball was caught the cushion we gave for the receivers to run after the catch combined with bad tackling,
That is why Thomas starting playing more because that was happening with the other CBs.
Im not certain but I am not sure thats a scheme issue but I could be wrong,
You're wrong.
As for me not liking Thomas thats a bit silly to say, I dont even know the guy, I know he was overdrafted by the Colts however, I know he hasnt been able to stay healthy, I know he was benched after 9 games
Overdrafted based on what? As far as you know he was benched after 9 games.... you don't know that either because that is not what happened. If you are going to claim something as a fact then you should probably check your facts first.
A Man Cover Corner but enough body of work to warrant a 3rd round pick?

Apparently he did have enough of a body of work to warrant a 3rd round pick because he was picked in the 3rd round.
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ok I got to admit Powers competing for a Pro Bowl spot is pretty insane

Again, it was just a prediction, but it didn't come from nowhere. He looked really really good last year and that was him playing in a terrible system where they played 8 yards off the receiver. Now, he has a coach who will help the secondary and keep in mind Powers is still young and improving.

Also, Champ Bailey is getting old and who knows how he'll do this year. Who knows if Jonathan Joseph will play like he did last year?!?! Powers may not make the original team, but he could be an alternate or a reserve.

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Ok so I had his what games he played in wrong he still didnt play all that well and to this point hasnt proven (just based on last year) that hes capable of starting

0 interceptions in 5 starts and 3 passes deflected, he looks to be a better tackler though, 33 tackles on the season

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Ok so I had his what games he played in wrong

Not only wrong but the whole premise of your previous post was wrong. Your premise was he must have been playing poorly since he got benched after 9 games. So since he did not get benched after nine games, actually took over after 7 games that would indicate the person he took over for was playing poorly.
he still didnt play all that well and to this point hasnt proven (just based on last year) that hes capable of starting
He hasn't proven (just based on last year) that he should not be starting either. Plus you stated in an earlier post that you are going off memory and you don't remember hearing a lot about Thomas. But guess what, that is a good thing... kind of like an olineman, if their name is not being called often that is a good thing.
0 interceptions in 5 starts and 3 passes deflected, he looks to be a better tackler though, 33 tackles on the season

Now you see why people are blaming the defense more than KT. Look at other teams that run a Cover 2 type D(I looked at CHI, TB and MIN) and their CBs don't get a lot of PD either. I think Tillman had the most at 12, and he was a 16 game starter.
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Haven't posted here yet...

Rucker is better than Thomas. He's a much better tackler, actually Rucker was one of the best tackling cornerbacks in the league last year and Thomas was one of the worst.

I don't think tackling is high on the priority list for a starting corner. It's important, but more important is not letting your man catch the ball. Besides, I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that he's one of the worst tacklers in the league. How did you conjure that up?

Thomas was also beat a lot, with the Julio Jones 80 yard TD coming to mind. Rucker looked great at the nickelback spot and shined in the Chiefs, Titans and Panthers game.

He wasn't beat a lot. He may have given up a lot of catches, but that's mostly because of the scheme. For instance, the big catch and run by Jones came on a play where he was giving up a sizable cushion, because of the defensive gameplan. I believe the other touchdown was a zone coverage, and it's actually notable that Thomas was even in the frame because it wasn't his assignment.

It's laughable to say that any of our corners were beat a lot, when we played 85% zone coverage, and 70% of the zone coverage was played with 5+ yard cushions. The scheme was beat. The corners were employed as matadors.

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Cornerback and safety are the two positions that are the hardest to learn and maintain. Being in the position to react on everything a WR or TE can show up is a very tough job to do. There are not enough top DBs in the NFL. When teams find one they rarely ever let one go. Sometime it takes looking and testing dozens of different players before finding just one.

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I don't think tackling is high on the priority list for a starting corner. It's important, but more important is not letting your man catch the ball. Besides, I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that he's one of the worst tacklers in the league. How did you conjure that up?

He wasn't beat a lot. He may have given up a lot of catches, but that's mostly because of the scheme. For instance, the big catch and run by Jones came on a play where he was giving up a sizable cushion, because of the defensive gameplan. I believe the other touchdown was a zone coverage, and it's actually notable that Thomas was even in the frame because it wasn't his assignment.

It's laughable to say that any of our corners were beat a lot, when we played 85% zone coverage, and 70% of the zone coverage was played with 5+ yard cushions. The scheme was beat. The corners were employed as matadors.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/12/2011-tackling-the-cornerbacks/

He's rated 90th out of 101.

The scheme was bad, but Powers seemed to thrive in it and the same with Rucker.

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http://www.profootba...he-cornerbacks/

He's rated 90th out of 101.

The scheme was bad, but Powers seemed to thrive in it and the same with Rucker.

No one on our defense thrived last season. We gave up a 104 passer rating against. We gave up 71% completions against. We gave up a first down basically every other pass attempt. How did Powers and Rucker thrive? Because they had better tackle numbers?

Does it matter that some of the absolute best corners in the league (Asomugha, Woodson, Bailey, Samuel, etc.) are at the bottom of that list, along with Thomas? Tim Jennings is at the top of that list, do you want him back?

Again, if you're looking at tackling efficiency as your gauge for who is a good corner and who isn't, you're missing the point about what a corner is supposed to do.

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http://www.profootba...he-cornerbacks/

He's rated 90th out of 101.

The scheme was bad, but Powers seemed to thrive in it and the same with Rucker.

According to Advanced NFL Stats, KT had a Tackle Factor of 0.63 which put him #62 out of 164 among CBs. Tackle factor looks at how many tackles a position should get compared to how many they do get. Rucker was further down with a TF of .54 or 97 out 164.
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http://www.profootba...he-cornerbacks/

He's rated 90th out of 101.

The scheme was bad, but Powers seemed to thrive in it and the same with Rucker.

No one on our defense thrived last season. We gave up a 104 passer rating against. We gave up 71% completions against. We gave up a first down basically every other pass attempt. How did Powers and Rucker thrive? Because they had better tackle numbers?

Does it matter that some of the absolute best corners in the league (Asomugha, Woodson, Bailey, Samuel, etc.) are at the bottom of that list, along with Thomas? Tim Jennings is at the top of that list, do you want him back?

Again, if you're looking at tackling efficiency as your gauge for who is a good corner and who isn't, you're missing the point about what a corner is supposed to do.

To add on to that Jerraud Powers was 63rd in the league, giving up catches on 69.5% of the passes thrown his way. That's an atrocious number, yet he is our best corner. This number is due to the way we used our corners, and it highlights what I said earlier: no one on our defense had a good year, and in most cases, it wasn't their fault.

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62 is pretty bad considering he is our number 1 Corner it sounds like to me, how many of those 164 were actually starters

So now KT is the Colts number 1 Corner?

Also let's see how many were starters, 32 teams times 2 starting CBs per team so that would be 64. So actually that's not bad considering KT was only the starter for 5 games last year.

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