Seeing Peyton throw

[jvan1973]

He did but I doubt that was the only reason. Back then you have to remember there was a huge risk involved. I think Irsay saw a opportunity to rebuild or whatever they want to call it, instead of waiting for a franchise QB to come around after Manning would retire.

IMO he didn't want to Colts to become what Denver used to be, a franchise jumping from QB to QB for a decade after Elways retirement.

There is no guarentee the colts wont jump from qb to qb for decades after peytons retirement

[JoKeR]

There is no guarentee the colts wont jump from qb to qb for decades after peytons retirement

double negatives confuse me

Do you mean " there's no guarantee the Colts WILL jump from QB to QB ...?" *that's a huge risk

Or

Do you mean Lucks not a guarantee?* True but he's the safest bet in a long time.

Can't wait for opportunities to come around when your ready, you need to be ready to take the opportunity!

[jvan1973]

double negatives confuse me

Do you mean " there's no guarantee the Colts WILL jump from QB to QB ...?" *that's a huge risk

Or

Do you mean Lucks not a guarantee?* True but he's the safest bet in a long time.

Can't wait for opportunities to come around when your ready, you need to be ready to take the opportunity!

Did your mean "Cant wait for opportunities to come around when you're ready"?

So, what you're saying is, if Peyton was the Peyton of five years ago in the eyes of Irsay, the Colts would have still drafted Luck?

[CR91]

I'm going off he wasn't worth the money because of his arm.

One excuse down the drain.

the way i see it its all about an opportunity of extending the success of a franchise. packers did it when they drafted rodgers. walsh did it when he traded for steve young. the 49ers knew mantana can still play just like the packers knew favre can still play just like the colts know manning can still play, but for how long was the question. some teams wait too long and end up a mess like the browns who never replaced otto graham and like the dolphins who never replaced marino.

[Jules]

Right, but Peyton has done more for me as a Colts fan than Luck has. You don't just get support because you were drafted into the uniform.

Actually, that is how it often works when you are a die hard fan of a team. You root for whoever is in the uniform and hope they become great.

Of course if say Luck gets caught with hookers and cocaine I don't blame some for getting upset.....I don't think that will happen though. Call it a hunch.

[Jules]

If any player in the history of football should have deserved a decision based on Emotion rather than Business, it was him.

I would argue there might be another here someday who has possibly done even more for his sport. Kobe Bryant. I think the Lakers right now keep him till retirement, but the contract they gave him at the time even made me shake my head.....and I am a big Kobe fan but he is getting too much money in the near future I feel. I would not blame the Lakers at all if they ever cut or traded him for something in return that could help them out more in the future. Kobe is still a top player but no longer the TOP player around. I am just using this as an example.

It's a business. It truly is.

Even the great ones times end. Every player has an expiration date.

[Jules]

I'm going off he wasn't worth the money because of his arm.

One excuse down the drain.

No he was not worth the money more for his age IMO. He is 36 years old and also will be an injury risk regardless every time he steps on the field with what he has had happen to him. I swear even Peyton said once years ago he did not want to play past 38. I could be wrong but I remember hearing something like it. But, once they do get older they have a harder time leaving the game too sometimes.

This is actually an excellent time in the AFC to rebuild IMO. The untouchables such as Manning/Brady are going to enter their downside sometime and their chances of winning titles are getting slimmer every season according to history. I am not saying either is done either by any means.....but their window aka "The Ringzzzz" is getting smaller and more urgent.

If we can build this team right then the AFC might be open sooner then later.

Luck does not have to be Manning either for this team to win. Teams win games and titles every year without Manning.

[King Colt]

I watched him and he looks fabulous, ie., 100%. Figure the Broncos went from Cutler to Tebow to Manning!! Ya gots ta know they be happy!!

(So Boston was forever cursed after trading Babe Ruth to the Yankees, will the same fate fall on the Colts?)

[BleedingBlue]

I would argue there might be another here someday who has possibly done even more for his sport. Kobe Bryant. I think the Lakers right now keep him till retirement, but the contract they gave him at the time even made me shake my head.....and I am a big Kobe fan but he is getting too much money in the near future I feel. I would not blame the Lakers at all if they ever cut or traded him for something in return that could help them out more in the future. Kobe is still a top player but no longer the TOP player around. I am just using this as an example.

It's a business. It truly is.

Even the great ones times end. Every player has an expiration date.

I guess we do not see eye to eye on Kobe lol because you are sort of proving my point. If Kobe was traded I would say to myself, its about darn time. THAT makes good business sense and there is no love lost for me personally. The guy is a tool. (not meaning to offend you as a kobe fan, just my opinion).

Comparing Peyton to Kobe is like comparing Good to Evil, IMO. LA deserves whatever they get for letting that cancer grow in their clubhouse for so long. They live by him and die by him.

As a knicks fan, I wanted Mello' but when I see how selfish he is and how we lose because he tries to "kobe" us to the playoffs,one hopes to realize its a team sport. Some bench player can come in and simply dish the ball around better with half the points and the knicks win (jeremy lin).

sorry if that makes no sense, but Manning was a class act unseen in sports in a long time. If anyone is above the business model, its him.

[Gavin]

I guess we do not see eye to eye on Kobe lol because you are sort of proving my point. If Kobe was traded I would say to myself, its about darn time. THAT makes good business sense and there is no love lost for me personally. The guy is a tool. (not meaning to offend you as a kobe fan, just my opinion).

Comparing Peyton to Kobe is like comparing Good to Evil, IMO. LA deserves whatever they get for letting that cancer grow in their clubhouse for so long. They live by him and die by him.

As a knicks fan, I wanted Mello' but when I see how selfish he is and how we lose because he tries to "kobe" us to the playoffs,one hopes to realize its a team sport. Some bench player can come in and simply dish the ball around better with half the points and the knicks win (jeremy lin).

sorry if that makes no sense, but Manning was a class act unseen in sports in a long time. If anyone is above the business model, its him.

the problem though is if you dont have that star thats going to get you consistent scoring then your only going to go so far and when that said player goes up against real stars the team is in a losing battle. take Kobe away from the Lakers, what do you got? you have a soft Center in Pau Gasol, two loose cannons who ocassionaly play up to their potential in Bynum and Artest and a bunch of roleplayers....Look at the Pacers, they did real good this season and even beat a couple other elite teams a time or two including Miami in one game but they also played them 3 more times losing all three, when a team has a true star on their team and they go against a team that does not have a true star then sure that team without a true star is bound to win a game and maybe two but over a series the team with no true stars often will lose the series more often then not

take Carmelo off the Knicks what do ya got? Amare? not exactly mentioned as elite, hes good, Lin hes good but hasnt showed it over a long stretch to me

Take Dirk off Dallas, I bet they dont even make the playoffs then

Take Kobe off the Lakers they dont go anywhere

if you dont have a star that can consistently do that and at the biggest moments when its needed the most then your team is at best just a second Tier team by the way how many times did the Lakers win a championship with that supposed cancer, Im not saying I like him either cause I dont but to say he is a cancer is wrong

[MAC]

As a knicks fan, I wanted Mello' but when I see how selfish he is and how we lose because he tries to "kobe" us to the playoffs,one hopes to realize its a team sport. Some bench player can come in and simply dish the ball around better with half the points and the knicks win (jeremy lin).

As I Knicks fan (since the early 70s) I already knew that it was a team sport, and I was begging them NOT to trade for Anthony. It was pretty obvious to anyone who had watched him for 10 minutes that he was indescribably selfish. I don't love Kobe, but he has always made the people around him better. His priority is winning. Anthony's priority is Anthony. His brand of basketball is so boring and frustrating that I just can't bear to support it. I've been rooting for the Nuggets ever since the trade.

The Knicks have been an embarrassing abomination more more than a decade. I just can't stand it. When Donnie Walsh was hired I actually was sucked back in. I thought that the owner had come to his senses. Apparently not. Here's hoping that they lose every single game until they drop Anthony and try to build an actual basketball team. Of course since they have once again destroyed their salary cap, that may take awhile.

[MAC]

take Carmelo off the Knicks what do ya got?

A much better team.

[Gavin]

A much better team.

based on what? how is taking a star off your team better?

[MAC]

based on what? how is taking a star off your team better?

See my post just before that to BleedingBlue

We should probably steer this back to Peyton by the way.

[southwest1]

I would argue there might be another here someday who has possibly done even more for his sport. Kobe Bryant. I think the Lakers right now keep him till retirement, but the contract they gave him at the time even made me shake my head.....and I am a big Kobe fan but he is getting too much money in the near future I feel. I would not blame the Lakers at all if they ever cut or traded him for something in return that could help them out more in the future. Kobe is still a top player but no longer the TOP player around. I am just using this as an example.

It's a business. It truly is.

Even the great ones times end. Every player has an expiration date.

I will the 1st to admit that I am not Stephen A. Smith or a basketball guru, but Jules's Kobe Bryant example is a good one. In any sports league, it's all about productivity either on the field or courtside & whether or not an organization can justify paying a marque star an astronomical annual salary. Hey, if Peyton AKA Yoda got relieved of his duties in INDY by Jim Irsay, there is no such thing as amnesty or an "untouchable" player anymore.

Every athlete's career sunset's eventually. It's inevitable. Father Time & your body usually let's you know when it's time to part ways. Kobe isn't feared anymore & his body is beginning to breakdown & become a liability to him & the Lakers front office. "The Black Mamba" is mini mamba or toddler mamba now. The glory days of Championship Hoops in L.A. with Kobe are dead & gone; Start rebuilding now without Mr. Byrant IMO.

[chad72]

As I Knicks fan (since the early 70s) I already knew that it was a team sport, and I was begging them NOT to trade for Anthony. It was pretty obvious to anyone who had watched him for 10 minutes that he was indescribably selfish. I don't love Kobe, but he has always made the people around him better. His priority is winning. Anthony's priority is Anthony. His brand of basketball is so boring and frustrating that I just can't bear to support it. I've been rooting for the Nuggets ever since the trade.

The Knicks have been an embarrassing abomination more more than a decade. I just can't stand it. When Donnie Walsh was hired I actually was sucked back in. I thought that the owner had come to his senses. Apparently not. Here's hoping that they lose every single game until they drop Anthony and try to build an actual basketball team. Of course since they have once again destroyed their salary cap, that may take awhile.

I still believe Kobe can win a championship if his big men play with 75% of the intensity Kobe does throughout a game. Shaq did, and the coaching of Mike Brown in close games has left much to be desired, IMO, as well.

Kobe did benefit from savvy veterans like Fisher, Horry and Fox on his roster early on for great role playing offense, and now his success goes the way of the pendulum that Gasol's soft or non-soft play provides. Heck, even Tim Duncan on his last legs is playing much harder than Gasol. Gasol managed to play well one big series 2 years ago vs the Celtics, and that was the only series I have seen him take charge. Since then, it has been waxing and waning, even with Bynum. It is almost like Kobe was like Brady in the NFL, playing with house money after those early championships won on the backs of several vets on his team that did not take days off. Phil Jackson did get more out of Kobe, IMO. Besides, PJ would have salivated with the big man presence he had this year with both Bynum and Gasol healthy for his triangle offense, it was always one or the other with Phil since Bynum could not stay healthy before. Brady was made to be bigger than he was because of his championships, so was Kobe. Kobe still scores and plays with intensity but he does not have the defensive help he used to have before day in and day out from his teammates. The game has changed too with the way the NBA league allows zone defense, something MJ would have hard a harder time with since Jordan did not develop his 3 pt. shot till much later though MJ would have found some way to be great .

Jordan was more like the Montana, not losing any SBs/NBA Finals, IMO. Kobe has lost 2 NBA Finals much like Brady with 2 SB losses .

[Gavin]

I'd certainly welcome Kobe to the Pacers any day if by wild chance we was to take an interest in Indiana, Pacers need that type of star to put us over the top, I dont remember a team since I have been watching basketball in the 18 years who won a championship without that one true star

[chad72]

I'd certainly welcome Kobe to the Pacers any day if by wild chance we was to take an interest in Indiana, Pacers need that type of star to put us over the top, I dont remember a team since I have been watching basketball in the 18 years who won a championship without that one true star

Detroit Pistons with Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups, who by no means are superstars, they were just a collection of very good players who played opportunistic D with the long arms of Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Teyshaun Prince.

But yes, I would gladly welcome Kobe. The Pacers have a Robin in Granger who needs his Batman. With how soft Paul George is playing, I wonder if he will ever take charge and become that Batman. Hibbert may need to be that Shaq like guy if he develops more moves in the post. Besides, the game has changed in favor of the smaller forwards with length and Paul George has a greater chance of becoming a star if he seizes the bull by the horns but I am not seeing it.

[Gavin]

I'd also say if the Pacers worked from the inside out that would open up so much for them if Hibbert asserted himself more

[Gramz]

Question...?? How does any of this have to do with "Seeing Peyton Throw.."...????

[FireJimCaldwell]

Question...?? How does any of this have to do with "Seeing Peyton Throw.."...????

Good question...

[Jules]

I got the NBA on the brain like many right now. Sorry guys. Oh yeah Peyton threw.....back OT.

[Jules]

I still believe Kobe can win a championship if his big men play with 75% of the intensity Kobe does throughout a game. Shaq did, and the coaching of Mike Brown in close games has left much to be desired, IMO, as well.

Kobe did benefit from savvy veterans like Fisher, Horry and Fox on his roster early on for great role playing offense, and now his success goes the way of the pendulum that Gasol's soft or non-soft play provides. Heck, even Tim Duncan on his last legs is playing much harder than Gasol. Gasol managed to play well one big series 2 years ago vs the Celtics, and that was the only series I have seen him take charge. Since then, it has been waxing and waning, even with Bynum. It is almost like Kobe was like Brady in the NFL, playing with house money after those early championships won on the backs of several vets on his team that did not take days off. Phil Jackson did get more out of Kobe, IMO. Besides, PJ would have salivated with the big man presence he had this year with both Bynum and Gasol healthy for his triangle offense, it was always one or the other with Phil since Bynum could not stay healthy before. Brady was made to be bigger than he was because of his championships, so was Kobe. Kobe still scores and plays with intensity but he does not have the defensive help he used to have before day in and day out from his teammates. The game has changed too with the way the NBA league allows zone defense, something MJ would have hard a harder time with since Jordan did not develop his 3 pt. shot till much later though MJ would have found some way to be great .

Jordan was more like the Montana, not losing any SBs/NBA Finals, IMO. Kobe has lost 2 NBA Finals much like Brady with 2 SB losses .

I don't put it all on Kobe. I miss Phil a lot too. I am not a big fan of Mike Clown. Kobe is still a good player but you cannot replace Phil Jackson IMO.

Your Jordan/Montana comparison is a good one. Both have flawless big game resumes (SBs/finals). That won't be matched if it ever does.

Brady/Kobe? Not a bad comparison either the more I think about it. But, does this mean the Pats squeeze out another few rings before Brady is done then so Brady equals Kobe's five? I could see one more from NE but two....oh God. Brady though still has his "Phil Jackson" at head coach.

[Gavin]

I don't put it all on Kobe. I miss Phil a lot too. I am not a big fan of Mike Clown. Kobe is still a good player but you cannot replace Phil Jackson IMO.

Your Jordan/Montana comparison is a good one. Both have flawless big game resumes (SBs/finals). That won't be matched if it ever does.

Brady/Kobe? Not a bad comparison either the more I think about it. But, does this mean the Pats squeeze out another few rings before Brady is done then so Brady equals Kobe's five? I could see one more from NE but two....oh God.

Brady certainly has a better chance at another Superbowl then Kobe has at his 6th ring I think, just look how close Brady got this year, within a few inches of a hail mary

[Jules]

Brady certainly has a better chance at another Superbowl then Kobe has at his 6th ring I think, just look how close Brady got this year, within a few inches of a hail mary

Agree. I think the window for the Lakers might be closing. Not sure what they do though this offseason. Not a fan of Mike Brown though. AT ALL.

As for Brady and the Pats. Well the SB is in New Orleans and they tend to go to those. Just like the Colts with Miami Super Bowls.

I hope I am wrong but my pick in the AFC until I see more next year is still NE. As for the NFC there are several I could see going to the big game. In the AFC I need to see how several teams look.

edit: But, the pattern still favors the AFC North next year. Darn pattern.....

[Gramz]

Evidentally, the thread (the part about Seeing Peyton throw) has run it's course.....

[Gavin]

Evidentally, the thread (the part about Seeing Peyton throw) has run it's course.....

oh it will pick up again, I am just trying to wait till the season starts to actually get a real good idea on how recovered he is before I comment on what I see instead of what I read so much, although I have obviously commented on it in the past. Im glad he appears healthy and that it sounds like he can throw just as well but I will try to reserve further judgement until I see if he can do it under pressure and even more then that, until I see he can take a big hit

[Susie Q]

oh it will pick up again, I am just trying to wait till the season starts to actually get a real good idea on how recovered he is before I comment on what I see instead of what I read so much, although I have obviously commented on it in the past. Im glad he appears healthy and that it sounds like he can throw just as well but I will try to reserve further judgement until I see if he can do it under pressure and even more then that, until I see he can take a big hit

Well considering how fast Peyton gets rid of the ball you may have a while to see if he can take the big hit. As far as pressure I think he can play under pressure and at least maybe this year he won't have to carry the whole team.

[Gavin]

Well considering how fast Peyton gets rid of the ball you may have a while to see if he can take the big hit. As far as pressure I think he can play under pressure and at least maybe this year he won't have to carry the whole team.

oh Im not talking about big game pressure or anything like that Im talking disguised blitzes and things that quarterbacks no matter how good they are wont always pick one out perfectly. its a rarity Peyton gets sacked because he is a master at getting rid of the ball so fast but its inevitable he will take hard hits, after all thats what brought on the surgeries and everything that followed to begin with

[Fx Stryker]

No he was not worth the money more for his age IMO. He is 36 years old and also will be an injury risk regardless every time he steps on the field with what he has had happen to him. I swear even Peyton said once years ago he did not want to play past 38. I could be wrong but I remember hearing something like it. But, once they do get older they have a harder time leaving the game too sometimes.

This is actually an excellent time in the AFC to rebuild IMO. The untouchables such as Manning/Brady are going to enter their downside sometime and their chances of winning titles are getting slimmer every season according to history. I am not saying either is done either by any means.....but their window aka "The Ringzzzz" is getting smaller and more urgent.

If we can build this team right then the AFC might be open sooner then later.

Luck does not have to be Manning either for this team to win. Teams win games and titles every year without Manning.

He is in no more "danger" than anyone else. I doubt doctors would put there careers on the line for a football player. Imagine how bad it would look for the doctors if he got seriously injured because he was in more danger than another player.They gave their word. No one would trust them after if his neck is so fragile, but they said he is fine.

Also he said he wanted to play for 15 years everytime he is asked, but seems like he has intentions to go past that.

[Susie Q]

oh Im not talking about big game pressure or anything like that Im talking disguised blitzes and things that quarterbacks no matter how good they are wont always pick one out perfectly. its a rarity Peyton gets sacked because he is a master at getting rid of the ball so fast but its inevitable he will take hard hits, after all thats what brought on the surgeries and everything that followed to begin with

Well let's hope he has a better O-line and he won't get that big hit again. Last I saw Peyton was the master of picking up the blitzes unless he has slipped in his old age. I would put money on him and the blitzes anytime.

[Gavin]

Would have been great to keep him but lets be honest everything lined up to the situation we have now and I am looking ahead and forward to the future but once again I will reserve judgement on how healthy he is until he takes his first hit

[Gavin]

Well let's hope he has a better O-line and he won't get that big hit again. Last I saw Peyton was the master of picking up the blitzes unless he has slipped in his old age. I would put money on him and the blitzes anytime.

I believe he will do well and hope he does but even he missed one do to disguising a blitz, after all he has been sacked before

[Gramz]

Would have been great to keep him but lets be honest everything lined up to the situation we have now and I am looking ahead and forward to the future but once again I will reserve judgement on how healthy he is until he takes his first hit

Why do I get the feeling you CAN'T WAIT for that hit...???

I, on the other hand, can't wait to see that razor arm throwing TD's again.....

[Jules]

He is in no more "danger" than anyone else. I doubt doctors would put there careers on the line for a football player. Imagine how bad it would look for the doctors if he got seriously injured because he was in more danger than another player.They gave their word. No one would trust them after if his neck is so fragile, but they said he is fine.

Also he said he wanted to play for 15 years everytime he is asked, but seems like he has intentions to go past that.

Sorry I went OT guys, got the NBA on the brain. Probably should not have come in this thread then and should stay in OT. Things seem dull, not a whole lot to talk about.

It's all the same old same old......not much we can really determine with teams until September anyway when they put it all out there on display.

I am not even truly doubting Peyton as much as some think at times. I'm not. I am more doubting the Broncos at times. I am not sure they are as good as people think. Last season was such a fluke to me at times. I am not sure if they have the longevity but we'll see. They might be a playoff team again but I really do have doubts they are a true contender to win the whole thing, at least this coming season. But, at the same time I think it is almost unfair to put the SB or bust label on a QB going to a new team.

Then again when you leave a team you have been on for so long it is hard to find a flawless fit again. The Niners kinda seemed like one but clearly Peyton did not feel that way.

Time will tell. With all the teams.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I just hope Irsay fires the Colts doctor's.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Why do I get the feeling you CAN'T WAIT for that hit...???

I, on the other hand, can't wait to see that razor arm throwing TD's again.....

There are quite a few that CAN'T WAIT for that hit.

[Jules]

I think age/money had a lot to do with it, also having the first pick in the draft to choose the next QB.

What happened has happened. Peyton is gone. Luck is here.

Nobody can reverse this now.

It is what it is.

[Gramz]

There are quite a few that CAN'T WAIT for that hit.

and how sad is that....????

[FireJimCaldwell]

and how sad is that....????

Embarrassingly sad.