In 2012, Who Will Have The Better Record?

[MEAT]

Broncos.

[braveheartcolt]

With Peyton, I think the Broncos will be 11-5, possibly 12-4. We will not have the pieces in place yet to be more than 4-12 or 5-11 IMHO. We could be 9-7 the following year, then get back to double digit wins in 2014. I want more and it will be hard for the next year or two, but I just don't see it.

I cannot get the 'it will be hard' bit. I'm more in the 'it will be interesting' mode. Sure, it would be nice to be in contention every year, but a decent rebuilding phase is actually something I'm looking forward too. Especially after last year's debacle, and the inept Back Office work of the past 5 years or so....

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Peyton missed the entire off-season last time. He was off because he didn't have the repetition going in like every year. He has the entire off-season this time.

A season doesn't depend on what you did last year.

Ha, that's laughable. No player is going to go into a game and say, "it's only playing Peyton Manning."

Basically he ignored what I said.

[luvdacolts67]

While I like to think P-Money is gonna pull off some pretty sweet wins, the Broncos have a pretty tough schedule and play in a pretty contested division with some teams Peyton hasn't exactly beaten with ease. Though I'm gonna give the Broncos the benefit of the doubt. They'd probably beat us if we played them, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say we may end up having a similar record. (but again, I'm gonna say most likely not.)

Peytons playing with a much better team than he had here. They easily are contenters.

[TKnight24]

The Colts have the better Season. Easier Schedule. Better O-Line. Younger Team. More Talent (Exclude P. Manning)

[Superman]

not hiding. its unrealistic to think that peyton can just pick up where he started. everyone thinking the broncos are automatically super bowl contenders because of peyton is insane. their defense is good, they have weapons on offense fine i get that, but no one wants to account for the schedule, the fact that peyton has had trouble with the the chargers and romeo creenel or even if peyton can still play at a high level.

What's all this Romeo Crennel talk? When's the last time Manning lost to a Romeo Crennel team?

And I can't take the Chargers seriously at this point. That team is falling apart. Plus, the primary issues we always had against them were due to our offensive line issues. The Broncos line matches up much better.

Other than that, their schedule is no more difficult than the first place schedule the Colts played all those years. If Manning is only 80% from a physical standpoint, the Broncos will be a 9 win team at least. If he's better than that, then you're looking at them chasing a top seed in the AFC.

[Gavin]

What's all this Romeo Crennel talk? When's the last time Manning lost to a Romeo Crennel team?

And I can't take the Chargers seriously at this point. That team is falling apart. Plus, the primary issues we always had against them were due to our offensive line issues. The Broncos line matches up much better.

Other than that, their schedule is no more difficult than the first place schedule the Colts played all those years. If Manning is only 80% from a physical standpoint, the Broncos will be a 9 win team at least. If he's better than that, then you're looking at them chasing a top seed in the AFC.

Peyton had a ton of trouble when Crennel was with the Patriots but also thats largely do to Ty Law

[Superman]

Peyton had a ton of trouble when Crennel was with the Patriots but also thats largely do to Ty Law

As recently as 2010, Crennel's defense plays well against Manning. But they didn't win.

[CR91]

As recently as 2010, Crennel's defense plays well against Manning. But they didn't win.

crennel always had the defense to give peyton fits, but never the offense to close out the game.

[Gavin]

As recently as 2010, Crennel's defense plays well against Manning. But they didn't win.

Ty Law was the main source of Peytons trouble I think, also Law was released from the Patriots in '05 prior to that he got 3 interceptions off of Peyton in the 2003 AFC Championship game also I believe it was a total of 11 times in their respective careers Law picked him off. It was more so the physical play the Colts just couldnt handle

[CR91]

Ty Law was the main source of Peytons trouble I think, also Law was released from the Patriots in '05 prior to that he got 3 interceptions off of Peyton in the 2003 AFC Championship game also I believe it was a total of 11 times in their respective careers Law picked him off. It was more so the physical play the Colts just couldnt handle

not true. it wasnt just ty law. even facing the browns in 08 peyton had problems and the only reason we won was because mathis recovered a fumble and scored. same thing in 2010 when we played the chiefs. peyton had problems handling that defense.

[TKnight24]

BottomLine: Colts will have the BETTER Record. Just cause Peyton is "Throwing" Good, doesnt mean he's going to be good when the other team is coming to Hit him. I'd hate to see Peyton take a Career ending Hit, but let's be Real... The reason why Tebow fried is cause he was Mobile. Broncos O-Line is TERRIBLE, but Tebow had the Ability to Extend the play with his Legs. Peyton can't do that. So look to see them do A LOT of quick passes & play action this year to try & keep Peyton Up-Right

[Gavin]

not true. it wasnt just ty law. even facing the browns in 08 peyton had problems and the only reason we won was because mathis recovered a fumble and scored. same thing in 2010 when we played the chiefs. peyton had problems handling that defense.

I didnt say Law was the only source of Peytons problems with the Patriots but it was the main source

[CR91]

I didnt say Law was the only source of Peytons problems with the Patriots but it was the main source

yea but when you look at it where ever crennel was coaching peyton had trouble with that defense

[Gavin]

yea but when you look at it where ever crennel was coaching peyton had trouble with that defense

No team ruined our Super Bowl chances more then the Patriots and at the head of that was the trouble Ty Law gave Peyton, I know they had other pieces that gave him problems such as Teddy Bruschi but Law was the main source

[TKnight24]

No team ruined our Super Bowl chances more then the Patriots and at the head of that was the trouble Ty Law gave Peyton, I know they had other pieces that gave him problems such as Teddy Bruschi but Law was the main source

Don't forget about the Chargers too. We've NEVER beaten them with Peyton in the past 4 Years if I'm thinking correctly

[CR91]

Don't forget about the Chargers too. We've NEVER beaten them with Peyton in the past 4 Years if I'm thinking correctly

we're like 1-5 since like 07 vs the chargers including playoffs.

[CR91]

No team ruined our Super Bowl chances more then the Patriots and at the head of that was the trouble Ty Law gave Peyton, I know they had other pieces that gave him problems such as Teddy Bruschi but Law was the main source

very true and the head of that defense was crennel

[TKnight24]

we're like 1-5 since like 07 vs the chargers including playoffs.

See? Look at that..... Just Terrible

[BayAreaBronco]

What's all this Romeo Crennel talk? When's the last time Manning lost to a Romeo Crennel team?

And I can't take the Chargers seriously at this point. That team is falling apart. Plus, the primary issues we always had against them were due to our offensive line issues. The Broncos line matches up much better.

Other than that, their schedule is no more difficult than the first place schedule the Colts played all those years. If Manning is only 80% from a physical standpoint, the Broncos will be a 9 win team at least. If he's better than that, then you're looking at them chasing a top seed in the AFC.

I agree. The Broncos should win at least 9 games. As a Broncos fan, I have never feared San Diego, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's interesting that you Colts fans view them differently.

[CR91]

I agree. The Broncos should win at least 9 games. As a Broncos fan, I have never feared San Diego, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's interesting that you Colts fans view them differently.

well get ready to fear them because peyton's track record against them isnt pretty

[BayAreaBronco]

well get ready to fear them because peyton's track record against them isnt pretty

Wow, that's a thought I did NOT need planted in my little head... LOL.

[Superman]

well get ready to fear them because peyton's track record against them isnt pretty

I didn't think Peyton was the problem. It was always either the offensive line or drops and fumbles. Aside from the regular season game in 07 when he threw 6 picks, but even then half of our skill players were hurt, it was raining, and Vinatieri missed a gimme field goal to put us ahead. To say that Peyton's track record is anything ignores the team aspect of the game.

[CR91]

I didn't think Peyton was the problem. It was always either the offensive line or drops and fumbles. Aside from the regular season game in 07 when he threw 6 picks, but even then half of our skill players were hurt, it was raining, and Vinatieri missed a gimme field goal to put us ahead. To say that Peyton's track record is anything ignores the team aspect of the game.

you can say the same thing about brady vs the broncos or favre vs the cowboys. no one cares about the factors or elements. all that is excuses. all they care about is what is the track record against a certain team.

[Superman]

you can say the same thing about brady vs the broncos or favre vs the cowboys. no one cares about the factors or elements. all that is excuses. all they care about is what is the track record against a certain team.

I don't care what people care about. People talk in cliches these days, without regard for what they actually mean. I don't care if Manning never beat the Chargers, the fact of the matter is that our offensive line couldn't handle their defensive line. That doesn't mean that Manning couldn't handle them. He had several games where he put up big numbers in losses, and other games where the game was won on the efforts of the offense but the defense or special teams didn't do their jobs. If you want to take that to mean that Manning can't beat the Chargers, you're going to have to make that argument in spite of the fact that he's on a completely different team with 50 different players. And you're going to have to sell that story to someone who isn't familiar with how Manning has played against the Chargers, game by game, and who isn't willing or able to think for themselves.

[CR91]

I don't care what people care about. People talk in cliches these days, without regard for what they actually mean. I don't care if Manning never beat the Chargers, the fact of the matter is that our offensive line couldn't handle their defensive line. That doesn't mean that Manning couldn't handle them. He had several games where he put up big numbers in losses, and other games where the game was won on the efforts of the offense but the defense or special teams didn't do their jobs. If you want to take that to mean that Manning can't beat the Chargers, you're going to have to make that argument in spite of the fact that he's on a completely different team with 50 different players. And you're going to have to sell that story to someone who isn't familiar with how Manning has played against the Chargers, game by game, and who isn't willing or able to think for themselves.

your willing to tell me every single game we played the chargers it was someone elses fault we lost.

[braveheartcolt]

I don't care what people care about. People talk in cliches these days, without regard for what they actually mean. I don't care if Manning never beat the Chargers, the fact of the matter is that our offensive line couldn't handle their defensive line. That doesn't mean that Manning couldn't handle them. He had several games where he put up big numbers in losses, and other games where the game was won on the efforts of the offense but the defense or special teams didn't do their jobs. If you want to take that to mean that Manning can't beat the Chargers, you're going to have to make that argument in spite of the fact that he's on a completely different team with 50 different players. And you're going to have to sell that story to someone who isn't familiar with how Manning has played against the Chargers, game by game, and who isn't willing or able to think for themselves.

People talk in cliches these days? Speak for yourself please. I don't use them as a rule. I avoid them like the plague.

On topic, I care not one jot about the Broncos record. The are not in our division, we don't play them this year, and they smell.

[rabidfan77]

Seriously? Manning's Broncos.

No of us like it is his team

[Superman]

i willing to tell me every single game we played the chargers it was someone elses fault we lost.

That's not what I'm saying that, and I really don't think you get my point.

If you want to go down that road, though, let's take the game where Manning undoubtedly played his worst, in 2007, on the road, where he threw 6(!) interceptions. That loss is more Manning's fault than anyone else's, for sure. However, with the Colts down two points and the game on the line, Manning directed the offense down inside the SD ten yard line. Had we been able to run for another first down, we would have been able to milk the clock and try for a field goal to end it. As it stands, we gave Vinatieri the ball with 1:31 on the clock. He missed a 29 yarder. If Vinatieri makes that kick and we win that game, then you aren't able to talk about Manning being 1-4 against the Chargers, even though he played poorly. That just goes away if you ignore the circumstances of the game, what you call "excuses." I choose not to ignore those circumstances, and it goes both ways.

So when Manning throws for 300 yards and a touchdown in the playoffs, and we have a three point lead with less than two minutes left, and all we need is a first down to win, but the offensive line can't pick up four yards in two plays, and the defense can't get a hold, and the offense never gets a possession in overtime, yeah, I'm not going to blame that loss on Manning. Or when Manning throws the ball to Kenton Keith, and it goes through his hands and gets intercepted, and when Marvin Harrison fumbles deep in Charger territory, and when the defense can't get a stop even with Rivers and Tomlinson hurt because Mathis and Freeney are also hurt, but Manning has 400 yards and three touchdowns, I'm not going to blame that loss on Manning either. Like I said initially, the issue against the Chargers was mostly our offensive line, which sometimes made Manning look out of sorts, but his performances, even in losses, was enough to win.

Now, Manning is on a completely different team. I don't know how much better Denver's offensive line will be, but based on how they played last season, I think they'll be able to handle the Chargers' defensive front. And if their defense plays like they did last season, salvaging an 8 win season out of that mess they had going on there, then I don't think they're going to struggle against the Chargers. They could, but the indicators don't suggest that they will.

[Superman]

People talk in cliches these days? Speak for yourself please. I don't use them as a rule. I avoid them like the plague.

On topic, I care not one jot about the Broncos record. The are not in our division, we don't play them this year, and they smell.

I could understand your umbrage if I said "all people speak in cliches." I did not.

[braveheartcolt]

I could understand your umbrage if I said "all people speak in cliches." I did not.

You really need to ligthen up Superman, or you may have to give up part of your user name.

'I'd don't use them as a rule' and 'I avoid them like the plague' were cliches, and combined with my initial statement, it basically just contradicted what I said. It was an attempt at humour. Clearly it failed.

Back to the drawing board........(ba-boom-tish)

[GoColts8818]

well get ready to fear them because peyton's track record against them isnt pretty

Peyton has held his own vs tbe chargers namely the two playoff games we lost it was the defense not being able to get off the field that cost us those games.

The broncos are a better defense than what manning had here and that is what is getting lost in thread the broncos are a better team than the colts as a whole at the positions outside the qb spot. They should have a better record than the colts. If they don't either the colts shocked the world or people will be getting fired in Denver.

[GoColts8818]

That's not what I'm saying that, and I really don't think you get my point.

If you want to go down that road, though, let's take the game where Manning undoubtedly played his worst, in 2007, on the road, where he threw 6(!) interceptions. That loss is more Manning's fault than anyone else's, for sure. However, with the Colts down two points and the game on the line, Manning directed the offense down inside the SD ten yard line. Had we been able to run for another first down, we would have been able to milk the clock and try for a field goal to end it. As it stands, we gave Vinatieri the ball with 1:31 on the clock. He missed a 29 yarder. If Vinatieri makes that kick and we win that game, then you aren't able to talk about Manning being 1-4 against the Chargers, even though he played poorly. That just goes away if you ignore the circumstances of the game, what you call "excuses." I choose not to ignore those circumstances, and it goes both ways.

So when Manning throws for 300 yards and a touchdown in the playoffs, and we have a three point lead with less than two minutes left, and all we need is a first down to win, but the offensive line can't pick up four yards in two plays, and the defense can't get a hold, and the offense never gets a possession in overtime, yeah, I'm not going to blame that loss on Manning. Or when Manning throws the ball to Kenton Keith, and it goes through his hands and gets intercepted, and when Marvin Harrison fumbles deep in Charger territory, and when the defense can't get a stop even with Rivers and Tomlinson hurt because Mathis and Freeney are also hurt, but Manning has 400 yards and three touchdowns, I'm not going to blame that loss on Manning either. Like I said initially, the issue against the Chargers was mostly our offensive line, which sometimes made Manning look out of sorts, but his performances, even in losses, was enough to win.

Now, Manning is on a completely different team. I don't know how much better Denver's offensive line will be, but based on how they played last season, I think they'll be able to handle the Chargers' defensive front. And if their defense plays like they did last season, salvaging an 8 win season out of that mess they had going on there, then I don't think they're going to struggle against the Chargers. They could, but the indicators don't suggest that they will.

and even in 2007 with as bad as manning played he still put us in position to win the game and Adam missed his only clutch kick since being here. That was just a strange night from top to bottom having a team who threw six inta be in position to win the game at the end only to lose when maybe the greatest clutch kicker in history missed a kick was pretty fitting for that game.

[CR91]

Peyton has held his own vs tbe chargers namely the two playoff games we lost it was the defense not being able to get off the field that cost us those games.

The broncos are a better defense than what manning had here and that is what is getting lost in thread the broncos are a better team than the colts as a whole at the positions outside the qb spot. They should have a better record than the colts. If they don't either the colts shocked the world or people will be getting fired in Denver.

i really dont understand how the broncos d is better. all their good at is getting to the qb. their terrible at stopping the run. sound familiar

[Gavin]

i really dont understand how the broncos d is better. all their good at is getting to the qb. their terrible at stopping the run. sound familiar

I can sum it up in a few words.....Champ Bailey..........Von Miller as opposed to who we have at those respective positions, Jerraud Powers.....Dwight Freeney also the Broncos defense is better because they were better than we are to this point at stopping the run which negates for a large part the threat of Freeney and Mathis

[CR91]

I can sum it up in a few words.....Champ Bailey..........Von Miller as opposed to who we have at those respective positions, Jerraud Powers.....Dwight Freeney also the Broncos defense is better because they were better than we are to this point at stopping the run which negates for a large part the threat of Freeney and Mathis

your acting like champ is 25. hes 34. and apparently you didnt watch c.j spiller run all over them or ryan mathews twice. this defense is no better then what peyton has had to work with for the last 14 years

[Gavin]

your acting like champ is 25. hes 34. and apparently you didnt watch c.j spiller run all over them or ryan mathews twice. this defense is no better then what peyton has had to work with for the last 14 years

He is still a very capable number 1. He was among the league leaders in Corners not being thrown at last year http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/20/cornerbacks-cover-snaps-count/ and completions allowed

[Superman]

You really need to ligthen up Superman, or you may have to give up part of your user name.

'I'd don't use them as a rule' and 'I avoid them like the plague' were cliches, and combined with my initial statement, it basically just contradicted what I said. It was an attempt at humour. Clearly it failed.

Back to the drawing board........(ba-boom-tish)

My bad.

[CR91]

He is still a very capable number 1. He was among the league leaders in Corners not being thrown at last year http://www.profootba...er-snaps-count/ and completions allowed

maybe because the other bronco corners are trash. lets see throw to an all pro corner or to some no name loser. difficult choice

[Gavin]

maybe because the other bronco corners are trash. lets see throw to an all pro corner or to some no name loser. difficult choice

he could come to the Colts right now and not even have to try to be our #1 it would be automatic