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In 2012, Who Will Have The Better Record?


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I maybe wrong, but by the end of 2010 didn't we have 20+ players on IR. The 2011 team I don't think we had nearly as much. So 2010 was much more depleted. So in a way Peyton won 10+ games with a "worse" team.

I remember the 2010 Packers having just as many guys hurt all year if not more at times. And they won the Super Bowl. Injuries can become a sorry excuse at times. IMO, this team was showing cracks since Dungy left. Even in the 2009 season they likely overachieved getting to the big game and stealing so many close games. Week 16 ripped the soul out of that squad IMO.

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I remember the 2010 Packers having just as many guys hurt all year if not more at times. And they won the Super Bowl. Injuries can become a sorry excuse at times. IMO, this team was showing cracks since Dungy left. Even in the 2009 season they likely overachieved getting to the big game and stealing so many close games. Week 16 ripped the soul out of that squad IMO.

I'm not using it as an excuse. Just saying the 2010 and 2011 teams were the exact team almost. They had equally "tough/weak" schedules, a 17 win difference. So saying the 2011 team was worse is false. The only difference was Peyton.

We averaged 26 points with Peyton. So put our average points to each game , and our record improves to 7-9. That's not considering the fact our T.O.P. would have dramatically improved. So the Browns, Chiefs, Bengals, Titans, and Panthers, four scored 27 and one 28, wouldn't have scored as much as they did. So that could shift our record to 12-4. We could also argue the Falcons could have been another game that was a possible win.

So how was the 2011 worse than the 2010 team even with a slighty tougher schedule could have given us a normal year as always?

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Yes it is Jim. It works all ways though. Like all the "groups" on this forum. You know?

And the lengths some go to in order to stick up for Peyton at times and never admit he had a single fault, ever. That can be amazing as well. He isn't even our QB anymore and some stick up for him more probably then they do our team.

He is an all time great. But, he was not immune to criticism and still isn't. I appreciate everything he did and always will. But, like ANY player he is not above criticism.

It's a message forum. All opinions are welcome correct?

It's going to be sad and funny at the same time when people tear down Luck after he makes his first rookie mistakes in the NFL. I can already see the threads now......

Par for the course.

Criticism comes with the territory.

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I'm not using it as an excuse. Just saying the 2010 and 2011 teams were the exact team almost. They had equally "tough/weak" schedules, a 17 win difference. So saying the 2011 team was worse is false. The only difference was Peyton.

We averaged 26 points with Peyton. So put our average points to each game , and our record improves to 7-9. That's not considering the fact our T.O.P. would have dramatically improved. So the Browns, Chiefs, Bengals, Titans, and Panthers, four scored 27 and one 28, wouldn't have scored as much as they did. So that could shift our record to 12-4. We could also argue the Falcons could have been another game that was a possible win.

So how was the 2011 worse than the 2010 team even with a slighty tougher schedule could have given us a normal year as always?

So with Peyton last year we win more then 2 games, squeeze into the playoffs somehow and then probably get whacked in NE in the playoffs after we make some furious comeback after falling behind 17 points or so and it ends in a loss. Then we spend the whole offseason arguing how much Caldwell sucks, how Peyton is being wasted away and seeing Brady vs. Peyton and team debates.

It's water under the bridge now. What happened happened.

I think we all should just move on at times.

I was not happy Peyton got hurt and missed the season at all. (could have had a better backup plan regardless) But, I honestly feel what was exposed more on this team was the true decline in our coaching staff and Polian.

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So with Peyton last year we win more then 2 games, squeeze into the playoffs somehow and then probably get whacked in NE in the playoffs after we make some furious comeback after falling behind 17 points or so and it ends in a loss. Then we spend the whole offseason arguing how much Caldwell sucks, how Peyton is being wasted away and seeing Brady vs. Peyton and team debates.

It's water under the bridge now. What happened happened.

I think we all should just move on at times.

I was not happy Peyton got hurt and missed the season at all. (could have had a better backup plan regardless) But, I honestly feel what was exposed more on this team was the true decline in our coaching staff and Polian.

Not saying with Peyton we win the Super Bowl, but why would the Patriots beat us? They walk in backwards to the Super Bowl. They beat Tim Tebow, and beat the Ravens by pure luck. Tom was terrible. Evans and Cundiff blew a win completely.We would have beat the Bengals just like the Texans. The Ravens would be the biggest challenge, but we never had a problem with them.

Moving on has nothing to do with any of this. It's comparing teams we all watched. Facts proving opinions wrong.

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Not saying with Peyton we win the Super Bowl, but why would the Patriots beat us? They walk in backwards to the Super Bowl. They beat Tim Tebow, and beat the Ravens by pure luck. Tom was terrible. Evans and Cundiff blew a win completely.

Moving on has nothing to do with any of this. It's comparing teams we all watched. Facts proving opinions wrong.

sounds like what Jules is saying (not putting words into her mouth) but time to move on, actually I think it all worked out for the better to tell you the truth
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Fear not ya'll ... The first 40 yard scamper by Luck down the sideline and then inevitable 15 yard fade to Fleener in the corner of the End Zone and all will be well and cozy over hear again.

This fanbase has no idea of the caliber QB they about to see.

Until then... carry on.

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sounds like what Jules is saying (not putting words into her mouth) but time to move on, actually I think it all worked out for the better to tell you the truth

Don't count your chickens before your eggs hatch. This could all work out for the worst. Not saying it going to happen. Just being realistic. And again moving on has nothing to do with comparing old teams.

then inevitable 15 yard fade to Fleener

He doesn't throw fades. Missed both of them at his pro day, and at Gruden camp. Show me a successful fade and I'll eat my words. A turn, jump, and catch by Fleener is not a successful fade.

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Not saying with Peyton we win the Super Bowl, but why would the Patriots beat us? They walk in backwards to the Super Bowl. They beat Tim Tebow, and beat the Ravens by pure luck. Tom was terrible. Evans and Cundiff blew a win completely.We would have beat the Bengals just like the Texans. The Ravens would be the biggest challenge, but we never had a problem with them.

Moving on has nothing to do with any of this. It's comparing teams we all watched. Facts proving opinions wrong.

My speculating that we would lose again in the playoffs is the same as any speculation around here including your own.I lost absolute trust in our head coach after the 2010 season, there is no way I was trusting him to help us beat more talented teams in the league when it mattered the most anymore.

I used the Pats as an example because they were the first seed. I don't think we would have won 14 games and stolen homefield. And until proven otherwise that place has not been kind to us in the playoffs, or Manning. Did the Ravens blow the win? Yep. So did the 49ers though and so did the Patriots vs. the Giants. Heck so did the Cowboys blow the NFC East.

Brady was bad against the Ravens but he and his offense brilliant against that so called top Broncos defense twice last year.

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Don't count your chickens before your eggs hatch. This could all work out for the worst. Not saying it going to happen. Just being realistic. And again moving on has nothing to do with comparing old teams.

He doesn't throw fades. Missed both of them at his pro day, and at Gruden camp. Show me a successful fade and I'll eat my words. A turn, jump, and catch by Fleener is not a successful fade.

Wow......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdy5mBxQ00E

This is a 6' 6" TE..... And I see a ton of them here...

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Wow......

This is a 6' 6" TE..... And I see a ton of them here...

3:13 is the closest to a fade I see. Most passes were in front of him, not over him. So unless a fade changed in meaning then I don't know. The point of a fade is to throw over the defender and just over your receiver's shoulder into his hands while he is in stride.

That's a fade. Also to be more specific I meant redzone fades because that's where they matter.

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3:13 is the closest to a fade I see. Most passes were in front of him, not over him. So unless a fade changed in meaning then I don't know.

That's a fade. Also to be more specific I meant redzone fades because that's where they matter.

honestly yes it does, what does it say? that your not ready to move on (thats what it sounds like anyway)
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This is getting ridiculous.....

People should relax a bit. Look forward to the new era. The future is BRIGHT. Have faith. Look forward.

And in the meantime root for whoever plays against the Miami Cheat.

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honestly yes it does, what does it say? that your not ready to move on (thats what it sounds like anyway)

I don't think many will, or it might take a while. Or they might never. It's a personal choice I suppose. It takes some longer then others.

It kinds reminds me of that scene in Wayne's World when the ex girl still tries to give Wayne an anniversary gift even though they broke up. The "gun rack" I think it was. I am not sure why but that scene keeps popping in my head lately.

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honestly yes it does, what does it say? that your not ready to move on (thats what it sounds like anyway)

How? Because your assumption makes it that way. Luck is the QB now. Nothing is going to change that. Just because statistical facts can prove the 2011 team would have been different with Peyton, and not giving us the #1 pick to draft Andrew doesn't mean it's not moving on.

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I don't think many will, or it might take a while. Or they might never. It's a personal choice I suppose. It takes some longer then others.

It kinds reminds me of that scene in Wayne's World when the ex girl still tries to give Wayne an anniversary gift even though they broke up. The "gun rack" I think it was. I am not sure why but that scene keeps popping in my head lately.

Well I've learned those that dont move on get left behind and miss out on the future and we still have a long way to go but the future looks bright
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How? Because your assumption makes it that way. Luck is the QB now. Nothing is going to change that. Just because statistical facts can prove the 2011 team would have been different with Peyton, and not giving us the #1 pick to draft Andrew doesn't mean it's not moving on.

But thats not what happened
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FX you are going to see Fleener in the end zone so much you will not care whether he ran a hitch, fade, out, stop and go, skinny post, or bubble screen...

Okay I don't have a problem with that. Just saying he doesn't throw fades. So an "inevitable fade" is just a false statement.

But thats not what happened

We'll I was just using a statistic to say the 2011 team wasn't even worse as the 2010 team. But since the name Peyton was used it only has to be about moving on, even though that wasn't the point.

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I don't think many will, or it might take a while. Or they might never. It's a personal choice I suppose. It takes some longer then others.

It kinds reminds me of that scene in Wayne's World when the ex girl still tries to give Wayne an anniversary gift even though they broke up. The "gun rack" I think it was. I am not sure why but that scene keeps popping in my head lately.

I don't even own "AH" gun.

:D

Edit: Right on cue, youtube. Schwing.

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How? Because your assumption makes it that way. Luck is the QB now. Nothing is going to change that. Just because statistical facts can prove the 2011 team would have been different with Peyton, and not giving us the #1 pick to draft Andrew doesn't mean it's not moving on.

Yeah, with Manning we would have been better. But, comparing Manning to the 3 stooges we had last year at QB is almost comical.

I think maybe John Dee could have played QB and I coached and we might have squeezed out 3 wins. THAT is how bad I felt the coaching staff had gotten. Thats how low I felt things fell.

To me this past season was almost a blessing. Not because Manning got hurt, but because it woke up our owner that things needed to desperately change.

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Okay I don't have a problem with that. Just saying he doesn't throw fades. So an "inevitable fade" is just a false statement.

OMG, have you ever watched Stanford they run fade routes all day long off of play action and boots. Not as evident this season as their WR corp was hit by injury.

You play too much Madden. I

Fade definitionpass route in which the receiver runs straight up field then fades or drifts out near the sideline while continuing to run full speed upfield; often used as an automatic play change when a defender aligns in tight bump-and-run or press man-to-man pass coverage position against a wide receiver

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Yeah, with Manning we would have been better. But, comparing Manning to the 3 stooges we had last year at QB is almost comical.

I think maybe John Dee could have played QB and I coached and we might have squeezed out 3 wins. THAT is how bad I felt the coaching staff had gotten. Thats how low I felt things fell.

To me this past season was almost a blessing. Not because Manning got hurt, but because it woke up our owner that things needed to desperately change.

That's the thing, I'm not comparing Manning to Collins, Painter, and Orlovsky. Many of you see the name Peyton and assume it's all about him. The 2011 teams was better in everyway. Our RBs were more productive. Guess the kicker too, they actually ran less under Orlovsky, Painter, and Collins last year than we did with Peyton. Our OLine was improved. Our LBs were improved. Everything was improved. That is the point, and the rest of youse made it about Peyton. I simply used averages under Peyton to prove that.

OMG, have you ever watched Stanford they run fade routes all day long off of play action and boots. Not as evident this season as their WR corp was hit by injury.

You play too much Madden. I

Fade definitionpass route in which the receiver runs straight up field then fades or drifts out near the sideline while continuing to run full speed upfield; often used as an automatic play change when a defender aligns in tight bump-and-run or press man-to-man pass coverage position against a wide receiver

Don't play Madden. Also Gavin just proved my point. That is Luck's red zones fades.

EDIT:

Stanford fans’ No. 1 gripe with Andrew was his inability to throw a fade. The offense was averaging 40 points per game and the unit sported four top-50 picks, but it got to the point where Stanford stopped calling the fade altogether because, try as

David Shaw

, Luck and the receivers might, the play simply would not go

http://stanford.scou.../2/1183822.html

Also there. Sorry John, you're wrong this time.

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That's the thing, I'm not comparing Manning to Collins, Painter, and Orlovsky. Many of you see the name Peyton and assume it's all about him. The 2011 teams was better in everyway. Our RBs were more productive. Guess the kicker too, they actually ran less under Orlovsky, Painter, and Collins last year than we did with Peyton. Our OLine was improved. Our LBs were improved. Everything was improved. That is the point, and the rest of youse made it about Peyton. I simply used averages under Peyton to prove that.

Don't play Madden. Also Gavin just proved my point. That is Luck's red zones fades.

The Colts might not be as bad as people think next year, despite Luck rookie mistakes.

That I do believe.....

I have argued myself with a few fans of other teams that the Colts TEAM is not as bad as some think. Do they have issues? Yeah. I am not pressing the panic button though. I am very optimistic for the future.

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The Colts might not be as bad as people think next year, despite Luck rookie mistakes.

That I do believe.....

I have argued myself with a few fans of other teams that the Colts TEAM is not as bad as some think. Do they have issues? Yeah. I am not pressing the panic button though. I am very optimistic for the future.

Well this rebuild everyone is behind rebuilt the only successful part our team had. So what did they improve on during the off-season? The OLine is now worse, the QB position is now worse (although MAY not be in a few years), the RBs stayed the same, the TEs may be the only improvement, the WRs are now worse. While still ignoring the main problem we had for seasons now. Inner DLine, and CB. So what has improved?

This new defense may not even work.

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Well this rebuild everyone is behind rebuilt the only successful part our team had. So what did they improve on during the off-season? The OLine is now worse, the QB position is now worse (although MAY not be in a few years), the RBs stayed the same, the TEs may be the only improvement, the WRs are now worse. While still ignoring the main problem we had for seasons now. Inner DLine, and CB. So what has improved?

This new defense may not even work.

defensive tackle and safety
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Well this rebuild everyone is behind rebuilt the only successful part our team had. So what did they improve on during the off-season? The OLine is now worse, the QB position is now worse (although MAY not be in a few years), the RBs stayed the same, the TEs may be the only improvement, the WRs are now worse. While still ignoring the main problem we had for seasons now. Inner DLine, and CB. So what has improved?

This new defense may not even work.

Who knows. It's all speculation. Pretty much like any team. Anything can happen..

We won't know much until we see some real games on the field and exactly what we are working with during the new era here. Right now we can continue to watch the refs job the Pacers vs. "The King."

Win or lose it should be interesting at the very least. I'm excited. It won't build itself over night but brick by brick hopefully it is built correctly..

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This topic is just stirring up anger and bringing back sore feelings for many people. Many like myself would love to have Peyton back and for the next 5 years and it ain't happening. The records and seasons each qb has won't mean squat wether the choice was right or wrong to move on from Peyton. Switching teams and situations change everything in the equation so its pointless to compare the two teams or players.

All that happens around here is you have 10 people that support their favorite players to the bitter end and 10 people that support the Colts to the bitter end. Suddenly Peyton and Garcon aren't on the team anymore and they aren't as good as they used to be. Despite evidence to the contrary. Suddenly the Colts make changes but we can't ever be as good as we were before or ever again. Both sides are right and wrong. Its a pointless arguement that just serves to upset people.

If you ever listened to Peyton talk about the 3-4 defense and his struggles with it is because precisely what you said...teams can disguise their coverage...put 7-8 guys in coverage making it difficult on the best qb to throw against it. So why can some teams beat it and others not...it all comes down to the offensive line. Some teams can run the ball and have a dominant offensive line. If you have to bring more guys into the box suddenly it is no different than a 4-3 and you can throw the ball all over. Teams that are weak running teams have tons of problems with the 3-4. It isn't just Peyton. He will have a better OL and running game this year so that should benefit him a lot. Peyton has played a first place schedule his whole career. Those opponents won't scare him. If they did...he wouldn't come back.

Will the Colts be better than last year. Certainly! We have a huge upgrade at qb (the most important position in football). We have done a pretty good job turning some things around for us. We have upgraded some spots on the team but we have a lot of people playing that haven't proven themselves. That can turn into a positive or huge negative. We just have to see. Now Andrew could take the NFL by storm similar to Cam but he is still a rookie. There is no reason we can't double and triple our wins...that said doesn't mean we win more games than Denver.

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Who knows. It's all speculation. Pretty much like any team. Anything can happen..

We won't know much until we see some real games on the field and exactly what we are working with during the new era here. Right now we can continue to watch the refs job the Pacers vs. "The King."

Win or lose it should be interesting at the very least. I'm excited. It won't build itself over night but brick by brick hopefully it is built correctly..

I also share this sentiment, I believe the defense will be better than people thinks as well. Better than last year in particular.

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With Peyton, I think the Broncos will be 11-5, possibly 12-4. We will not have the pieces in place yet to be more than 4-12 or 5-11 IMHO. We could be 9-7 the following year, then get back to double digit wins in 2014. I want more and it will be hard for the next year or two, but I just don't see it.

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