T.Y Hilton vs Austin Collie

[Playoffs2013]

this aint madden you going to get Luck killed with Hilton back there

wasnt my post i just drew it out

[The Peytonator]

I like the idea of Hilton in the backfield. We'll call it the confusion package.

If New England can use Hernandez as a Running Back, we can use Hilton as such. Throw some screens to him and let him find some space.

Anyone know if Harvin lines up in the backfield in Minny?

[chad72]

Hilton in the backfield has to be part of a 2 back formation that the Saints ran a lot of plays using Bush and Thomas or Sproles and Thomas with in the backfield. He cannot be the only one in the backfield. The difference is, instead of a 2nd back, it is a speedy wideout.

One thing that did occur to me - Arians used to go 4 WRs in Pitt sometimes with Big Ben on an empty backfield? Will we even dare to run such a play with a rookie QB? I think not, or let me paraphrase, I hope not.

[The Peytonator]

this aint madden you going to get Luck killed with Hilton back there

He won't be back there to Pass Pro. It'll likely be to get him the ball on a screen so he can get the ball in space.

Although I have no idea if the coaches will use him like that.....still cool to think about.

[Playoffs2013]

I like the idea of Hilton in the backfield. We'll call it the confusion package.

If New England can use Hernandez as a Running Back, we can use Hilton as such. Throw some screens to him and let him find some space.

Anyone know if Harvin lines up in the backfield in Minny?

Ive seen him but its mostly reverses but what i hope we can do with hilton is run a couple reverses then reverse play action fake down the field that would open everything up

[HtownColt]

I like the idea of Hilton in the backfield. We'll call it the confusion package.

If New England can use Hernandez as a Running Back, we can use Hilton as such. Throw some screens to him and let him find some space.

Anyone know if Harvin lines up in the backfield in Minny?

thats like a 60lbs difference between Hilton and hernandez unless your handing it to Hilton this is a recipe to put Luck on IR

[chad72]

Anyone know if Harvin lines up in the backfield in Minny?

Several times, it leads to free release for him a lot of times when he ends up being the recipient of a pass as well since teams have to pay attention to Mr. Peterson too.

We dont have Mr. Peterson, so T.Y.Hilton in the backfield serves the purpose of free release for our TEs probably.

[Flash7]

Let's say hypothetically that Hilton does become the starter, beating out our much beloved Austin Collie. Wouldn't that suggest that for our new system, Hilton was the better option? And if so, would you have a problem with it?

I wouldn't as long as it was fair competition in the offseason. I want to field the best team. With that said, I still believe that it's not Collie-vs- any other Colts receiver. It's Collie & other Colts receivers as a unit, based on formation and game plan.

[chad72]

Let's say hypothetically that Hilton does become the starter, beating out our much beloved Austin Collie. Wouldn't that suggest that for our new system, Hilton was the better option? And if so, would you have a problem with it?

I wouldn't as long as it was fair competition in the offseason. I want to field the best team. With that said, I still believe that it's not Collie-vs- any other Colts receiver. It's Collie & other Colts receivers as a unit, based on formation and game plan.

As long as fair competition was involved, I would have no issues with it. It wont be like Gonzo coming out and stating he was not given a fair chance, at least I hope.

[HtownColt]

He won't be back there to Pass Pro. It'll likely be to get him the ball on a screen so he can get the ball in space.

Although I have no idea if the coaches will use him like that.....still cool to think about.

exactly you dont think the defense would know that..defense is going to be coming when they see Hilton back there..thats just not a good look for Hilton to be back there

[HtownColt]

If I was Luck i wouldn't want yall as my offensive coordinator

[Playoffs2013]

That's creative....

we can lime up Allen, Collie and Wayne to one side..

Fleener split to the other side and Hilton in the backfield..

the defense asks: What are they doing? We cabnt sibgke cover Fleener..

We've got to allow for Colie in the slot..

Are they going to hand it to Hilton?

What if Luck rusn a QB draw?

.....We're going to like this.

i owuld like something like this

Wayne

Fleener

Justice

Ijalana

satele Luck Brown

McGlynn

Castonzo

D.Allen

Collie

then we could alternate Allen with Hilton/brazill/Avery

[chad72]

We play some good pass rushers, Peppers in game 1, Suh vs the Lions, the Texans' D-line, all that can be chippy and put fear in a QB's mind. Hopefully, going against Freeney and Mathis builds Luck's confidence (though they cannot hit him:) in TC).

I am curious if they will give Ijalana a shot at LT if he is 100% healthy, since he did play LT at Villanova, just like Castanzo did at Boston College.

[The Peytonator]

exactly you dont think the defense would know that..defense is going to be coming when they see Hilton back there..thats just not a good look for Hilton to be back there

If the defense blitzes when Hilton is back there, they are setting themselves up for a huge gashing. When a D blitzes and the offense runs a screen.....bad things happen for the defense.

[chad72]

If I was Luck i wouldn't want yall as my offensive coordinator

LOL!!!

[chad72]

If the defense blitzes when Hilton is back there, they are setting themselves up for a huge gashing. When a D blitzes and the offense runs a screen.....bad things happen for the defense.

Trust me, rookie QB, empty backfield without RB to pick up blitz, Ds will blitz. They will salivate when they see that.

Even the Bears that normally just rush their front four, will bring an LB as a 5th guy down the A gaps to see what Luck is made of when we go to Chicago.

[HtownColt]

If the defense blitzes when Hilton is back there, they are setting themselves up for a huge gashing. When a D blitzes and the offense runs a screen.....bad things happen for the defense.

they dont have to blitz when its just 5 lineman to go against with the pass rushers in this league...with Hilton in the backfield you are making yourself one-demensional which plays right in the hands of the defense..going get Luck to look like David Carr with that formation

[dgambill]

Hilton can be used in a lot of ways. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the outside and Fleener in slot. He probably wouldn't see a saftey over the top since they would either be covering fleener or helping on fleener. This team has a much more dynamic passing game now. I think what we are trying to do is be as creative as possible with different sets but keep the passes coming out FAST as to limit Luck's time in the pocket. That to me is key. I think you will see lots of short passes and opportunities for YAC.

I really don't mind what we do....I do think it will be hard to get Collie off the field though. He is simply a gamer. Guy plays faster than he looks and has great hands. I don't think he will give up a starting job easily. Arians will see that. I mean Hilton looks really good but I see Hilton stealing playing time from Collie as much as I see Brazil stealing playing time from Wayne. To be honest I think Avery will be the odd man out if he doesn't perform.

[CR91]

i cant wait to see wayne and avery outside with fleener in the TE spot and hilton and collie in the slot

[HtownColt]

Hilton can be used in a lot of ways. Heck I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the outside and Fleener in slot. He probably wouldn't see a saftey over the top since they would either be covering fleener or helping on fleener. This team has a much more dynamic passing game now. I think what we are trying to do is be as creative as possible with different sets but keep the passes coming out FAST as to limit Luck's time in the pocket. That to me is key. I think you will see lots of short passes and opportunities for YAC.

I really don't mind what we do....I do think it will be hard to get Collie off the field though. He is simply a gamer. Guy plays faster than he looks and has great hands. I don't think he will give up a starting job easily. Arians will see that. I mean Hilton looks really good but I see Hilton stealing playing time from Collie as much as I see Brazil stealing playing time from Wayne. To be honest I think Avery will be the odd man out if he doesn't perform.

pretty sure Collie already knows he is going to have to move to the outside receiver this year

[CR91]

pretty sure Collie already knows he is going to have to move to the outside receiver this year

that might not be the case. arians is just gonna have to get creative and make certain packages for different wr and te combos

[HtownColt]

that might not be the case. arians is just gonna have to get creative and make certain packages for different wr and te combos

i know that im just saying most formations he is going to have to be the outside receiver for the most part..but every receiver/tight end we got going be all over the place in this offense exploiting matchups

[dgambill]

they dont have to blitz when its just 5 lineman to go against with the pass rushers in this league...with Hilton in the backfield you are making yourself one-demensional which plays right in the hands of the defense..going get Luck to look like David Carr with that formation

Agreed. 5 vs 4 is a miss-match in favor of the defense. They wouldn't need to blitz (but they would!!) To me that is a way to get your young qb squashed and/or throw a pick. I promise you one thing. YOU WILL NOT SEE LUCK IN A NO BACK SET THIS YEAR! If you do that will be the end of Arians/Pagano.

i owuld like something like this

Wayne

Fleener

Justice

Ijalana

satele Luck Brown

McGlynn

Castonzo

D.Allen

Collie

then we could alternate Allen with Hilton/brazill/Avery

Why would you split out Allen? I definately see Fleener getting split out A LOT because of his athletic/catching skills. Allen played a lot lot more with his hand in the dirt. He can block and catch. To me Allen is going to be that saftey valve for Luck. He will block and chip down a lot and then slide out for those important check down throws. I think he will have the chance to be very productive. I think we will use Fleener and Hilton in the slot and put them in motion to get mis-matches or signify zone and man. I think Collie and Wayne would be just fine on the outside.

[CR91]

i know that im just saying most formations he is going to have to be the outside receiver for the most part..but every receiver/tight end we got going be all over the place in this offense exploiting matchups

avery is played a lot more in the outside then collie has in their careers

[The Peytonator]

Trust me, rookie QB, empty backfield without RB to pick up blitz, Ds will blitz. They will salivate when they see that.

Even the Bears that normally just rush their front four, will bring an LB as a 5th guy down the A gaps to see what Luck is made of when we go to Chicago.

they dont have to blitz when its just 5 lineman to go against with the pass rushers in this league...with Hilton in the backfield you are making yourself one-demensional which plays right in the hands of the defense..going get Luck to look like David Carr with that formation

Well now......it seems I have been beaten.

I still think though, if a defense brings heat, regardless of who's in the backfield, and the offense throws a screen, it typically ends in a decent sized gain. On a screen you want a couple Olinemen to let their man beat them, so they can get out in space as lead blockers. You have the other WRs/TEs making downfield blocks. All of the rushers are rendered ineffective and the LBs/DBs get mowed over by linemen and receivers.

[Playoffs2013]

Agreed. 5 vs 4 is a miss-match in favor of the defense. They wouldn't need to blitz (but they would!!) To me that is a way to get your young qb squashed and/or throw a pick. I promise you one thing. YOU WILL NOT SEE LUCK IN A NO BACK SET THIS YEAR! If you do that will be the end of Arians/Pagano.

Why would you split out Allen? I definately see Fleener getting split out A LOT because of his athletic/catching skills. Allen played a lot lot more with his hand in the dirt. He can block and catch. To me Allen is going to be that saftey valve for Luck. He will block and chip down a lot and then slide out for those important check down throws. I think he will have the chance to be very productive. I think we will use Fleener and Hilton in the slot and put them in motion to get mis-matches or signify zone and man. I think Collie and Wayne would be just fine on the outside.

i just assumed becasue fleener is the starter but now you mention it it makes more sense

[HtownColt]

avery is played a lot more in the outside then collie has in their careers

you really trust avery over collie out there..well hey thats your opinion i mean Collie was the nations leading receiver in college playing on the outside

[dgambill]

i just assumed becasue fleener is the starter but now you mention it it makes more sense

I would almost bet they BOTH start. I would almost bet $100 that the line up would be like this for a base formation.

Collie

Allen

Justice

McGlynn

Satele Luck Brown

Ijalana

Constanzo

Fleener

Wayne

They will play a lot of two TE sets and then will Split Fleener out or bring in Hilton for Allen and split Hilton out. (IDK about the OL how they will line up because too many scenarios have been mentioned. Heck, Don't be surprised to see 3 TE sets looking something like this. This team has a lot of options and Arians will utilize them all....he is a good OC.

Eldrigde

Justice

Mcglynn Allen

Satele Luck Brown

Ijalana

Costanzo

Fleener

Wayne

[HtownColt]

Well now......it seems I have been beaten.

I still think though, if a defense brings heat, regardless of who's in the backfield, and the offense throws a screen, it typically ends in a decent sized gain. On a screen you want a couple Olinemen to let their man beat them, so they can get out in space as lead blockers. You have the other WRs/TEs making downfield blocks. All of the rushers are rendered ineffective and the LBs/DBs get mowed over by linemen and receivers.

all the defense has to do is hit the running back on the way to the quarterback to kill the screen then Luck is toast

[Fx Stryker]

Collie is capable of being a #2 receiver. I don't think a rookie is going to be his competition. Maybe Avery vs Hilton.

[OZOC01]

Arians likes fast receivers, but I don't think Collie is going anywhere. If you ask me his speed is underrated. I remember a play where he caught a ball over the middle and just outran the guys chasing him. It's not easy to outrun a couple defensive backs when you have the ball in your hands. I also think Luck will favor Collie in much the same way Peyton did. He and Fleener will be his security blanket. If the deep parts are covered, just know where those guys are and it's a completion.

I agree. I didn't think Collie would be very fast, and he doesn't have DeSean Jackson speed. But he does have the ability to give fast DBs a run for their money...

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Ehhh, the guy has had his brain scrambled a couple of times. For his sake and ours I think it best to begin grooming a replacement. This is the NFL, it happens. I was willing to let Peyton walk so I have no problems seeing Collie load up the Suburban.

[CR91]

you really trust avery over collie out there..well hey thats your opinion i mean Collie was the nations leading receiver in college playing on the outside

you play to a player's strength. why would we take collie out of the slot if thats where he excels

[HarassedOffTheSite]

you really trust avery over collie out there

Of course. ???

[HtownColt]

you play to a player's strength. why would we take collie out of the slot if thats where he excels

but how do you know he cant excel on the outside as well as the slot

[dgambill]

that might not be the case. arians is just gonna have to get creative and make certain packages for different wr and te combos

That is like saying Adam Sandler needs to be more immature for his next role. Arians is very very creative. He will get the most out of multiple TE sets and receiver sets to make this team dangerous and at the same time safe for Luck. I imagine he was very happy we missed on a couple of defensive guys so that he has these pieces to play with. Just look at the Steelers...they did all sorts of things with their personal on offense. Sometimes 3 TEs and sometimes none. Until they had a horrible offensive line they still managed to run the ball and pass the ball all over the field.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

i owuld like something like this

Wayne

Fleener

Justice

Ijalana

satele

McGlynn

Castonzo

D.Allen

Collie

then we could alternate Allen with Hilton/brazill/Avery

yeah uhh, no. Just what we need to stretch the defense...two slow dudes on the ends. That'll work wonders for the TEs. ;)

[dgambill]

Ehhh, the guy has had his brain scrambled a couple of times. For his sake and ours I think it best to begin grooming a replacement. This is the NFL, it happens. I was willing to let Peyton walk so I have no problems seeing Collie load up the Suburban.

Of course. ???

You honestly think Avery will be more productive and trust him to be a focus of your offense over Collie. I mean we all want Avery to be great but lets be honest..there is no indication this guy will ever even make the field again or stay on it..much less when he does if he will even produce. Collie has proven he can play...and he will get right back up and keep producing. I would say there is a much better chance Collie stays healthy over Avery. I'm not trying to argue but I just find it interesting as to why people think the way they do? Is it just the fascination with new toys? Good ol dependable Collie with his surprising speed and excellent hands and route running to me will see much more playing time.

[Dtman513]

Collie could be a 3rd down slot guy with reliable hands to get that critical possession to extend the drive. T.Y.Hilton can be used on reverses and early downs to take shots down the field, IMO. That is how I envision it.

That is how Jerrico Cotchery was used at Pitt., he came in on crucial 3rd downs several times and in end zone plays where his height, red zone experience and reach was an advantage, very much like Collie. T.Y.Hilton would be more like between the 20s guy for early downs.

The key question might be - Donnie Avery vs T.Y.Hilton, One could make an argument for using T.Y.Hilton on the outside to take the safeties away. It is not an automatic that T.Y.Hilton will be used only in the slot.

I agree with the above statement. It's not Collie vs. T.Y. Hilton it's Avery vs. T.Y. Hilton. Avery has durability issues so, if he doesn't work out either Hilton or LaVon Brazill can step in. Plus, I think Grigson envisions Hilton being a return man.

[dgambill]

I think Hilton will return punts as well but as his influence in the offense grows he will see less time there and eventually do it when we need a big return.