Bruce Arians on Young and Richardson

[Moosejawcolt]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/q9XdKsGpkWakk4bY/

[Flash7]

He see’s what many of us see.

[ColtStrong2013]

“Ability doesn’t make a quarterback.” 
 

“Have to be able to do two minute and third down.” 
 

Maybe Bruce should be entertained as a President type to oversee the next qb decision. 

[Colt.45]

"Combine superstar"

 

Woof

[jemack]

Man, I wish he was our QB coach...

[shasta519]

It is sort of interesting how much ties the Colts have had to PHI over the years...from Grigson to Reich to Steichen to bringing in QBs like Wentz, Foles and drafting a QB similar to Hurts.

 

I can't imagine it's all coincidental. 

[RollerColt]

Yeah, I mean Bruce is not wrong in his analysis is he? 

 

Richardson wowed at the combine and the organization got starry eyed at the potential. Thinking they could "fix him" and mold him into a QB. 

[IndySouthsider]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/q9XdKsGpkWakk4bY/

100% 

 

Bruce is 100% on the spot. AR is not a Quarterback

[ProblChld32]

This is pretty much what I was saying from the beginning. I wasn’t too fond of the pick because there were too many red flags with AR. Not much tape , low completion rate and limited starts in a meh conference in college. He was a combine warrior and essentially went from a day two pick to a top 5 prospect overnight. People were not talking about him until he performed at the combine. Then all of a sudden it was his “potential” not what he actually DID in college. I was really hoping that Houston had took him and Stroud fell to us. 

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, jemack said:

Man, I wish he was our QB coach...

I wish he was a “consultant of the Indianapolis Colts” instead of the Tampa bay buccaneers. 

[chad72]

Bill Polian was of the same kind too - football acumen and excellent production with good to very good athleticism to go with it, instead of top notch athleticism with some football production sprinkled in.

 

Ballard's RAS philosophies led to this pick and this will be the final RAS oriented draft pick that will be the last straw for the camel's back if all attempts are exhausted to make it work and they don't.

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Bill Polian was of the same kind too - football acumen and excellent production with good to very good athleticism to go with it, instead of top notch athleticism with some football production sprinkled in.

 

Ballard's RAS philosophies led to this pick and this will be the final RAS oriented draft pick that will be the last straw for the camel's back if all attempts are exhausted to make it work and they don't.

I get what Ballard wants to do - draft very athletic/high upside guys and hope to coach them up. I just don't think it really works in practice, because of intangibles like coachability and ability to process.

 

Anyone can learn to repeat whatever coaches tell them, but if what they say and what the put on the field don't match something is obviously wrong.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Solid84 said:

I get what Ballard wants to do - draft very athletic/high upside guys and hope to coach them up. I just don't think it really works in practice, because of intangibles like coachability and ability to process.

 

Anyone can learn to repeat whatever coaches tell them, but if what they say and what the put on the field don't match something is obviously wrong.

I would be interested if someone looked at all top 8 teams in the NFL. Look at their draft picks and see what was the key to their success. I bet it was game film and they were football players 1st. Ballard always drafted on RAS and upside. 

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I would be interested if someone looked at all top 8 teams in the NFL. Look at their draft picks and see what was the key to their success. I bet it was game film and they were football players 1st. Ballard always drafted on RAS and upside. 

There may be some differences, but what I think is the real difference is Ballard not supplementing draft picks with free agent signings.

[BlackTiger]

37 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I would be interested if someone looked at all top 8 teams in the NFL.

I looked at a power ranking just now, top 8 has 5 teams who hit on a highly picked qb in the draft.  Eagles are on there and Hurts was a second rounder(who we could have taken)

 

Darnold and Goff were top picks who have switched teams and Russel wilson and the steelers are on there.

[lollygagger8]

But....but...but......his RAS score is off the charts! 

[richard pallo]

Ariens and Lombardi both say they pretty much don’t think he’s going to make it in the NFL.  Our coaches and players have seen it as well.  Reports of his lack of preparation and commitment are out there too. He’s just an athlete that’s it.  It’s a weak quarterback class coming up.  The perfect time to move on when the gettin is good.  Some team will be desperate to give him a shot.
    If I’m the Colts I would be looking at Darnold as he’s a FA this year or I’d be looking  to trade for a quarterback who has gone out of favor like Fields or Jones.  There might be someone else I’m not thinking of as well.   Our team is a playoff team with a good quarterback.  I don’t think AR has what it takes to fast track his game fast enough to get where he needs to be.  I think we should try again with a vet and if that fails start over.  

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, ProblChld32 said:

This is pretty much what I was saying from the beginning. I wasn’t too fond of the pick because there were too many red flags with AR. Not much tape , low completion rate and limited starts in a meh conference in college. 

Uh....since when is the SEC a "meh" conference in college football?

[ProblChld32]

31 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

Uh....since when is the SEC a "meh" conference in college football?

The competition he played as a starter his junior year was meh. The only notable conference teams out of his 12 game stint were Georgia and Tennessee, everyone else STUNK. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

These hot takes are dumb from him. These kids just started their careers 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

But....but...but......his RAS score is off the charts! 

U also have to remember that after every draft. There many people on this forum bragging about how we got the best athlete with the highest RAS in the draft. How is that working??

[RollerColt]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U also have to remember that after every draft. There many people on this forum bragging about how we got the best athlete with the highest RAS in the draft. How is that working??

It’s both working and not working. 
 

It’s working because we’re near .500.

 

It’s not working because we’re near .500.

 

We’re just average. We’re like cooked noodles with no sauce. 
 

I’m okay with trying something  else at this point. But I’m expecting to spend most of my life disappointed. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Ariens and Lombardi both say they pretty much don’t think he’s going to make it in the NFL.  Our coaches and players have seen it as well.  Reports of his lack of preparation and commitment are out there too. He’s just an athlete that’s it.  It’s a weak quarterback class coming up.  The perfect time to move on when the gettin is good.  Some team will be desperate to give him a shot.
    If I’m the Colts I would be looking at Darnold as he’s a FA this year or I’d be looking  to trade for a quarterback who has gone out of favor like Fields or Jones.  There might be someone else I’m not thinking of as well.   Our team is a playoff team with a good quarterback.  I don’t think AR has what it takes to fast track his game fast enough to get where he needs to be.  I think we should try again with a vet and if that fails start over.  

I am hoping that if Shane sees that, they let him go. My only concern is that he and Ballard will convince Irsay to give him another 2 years when they know he is not the answer. People will do anything to save their job if threatened. I would totally be for letting them all go and being in Vrabel. I think what is not discussed is if Shane is indeed a good coach. I was high on him after las year. However, i not so sure this year. The one red flag is the inability to get this team over the Jags hump. I see a guy like Vrabel having this team ready. The issue of course with Vrabel is can he get someone to develop a qb? 

[richard pallo]

22 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am hoping that if Shane sees that, they let him go. My only concern is that he and Ballard will convince Irsay to give him another 2 years when they know he is not the answer. People will do anything to save their job if threatened. I would totally be for letting them all go and being in Vrabel. I think what is not discussed is if Shane is indeed a good coach. I was high on him after las year. However, i not so sure this year. The one red flag is the inability to get this team over the Jags hump. I see a guy like Vrabel having this team ready. The issue of course with Vrabel is can he get someone to develop a qb? 

It’s a mess the Colts have gotten themselves into.  A quarterback that will most likely need a few years to reach his potential if at all and a good young roster in need of dependable solid quarterback play to get to the playoffs and maybe more.  What are they going to do?  Imo Shane has shown that he might not be up to the task as well.  I think the remainder of the season will reveal a lot about where they think AR is trending.  Not game reps most likely but his commitment to improving and understanding what is expected from the position.  Is he driven or not?  
     Ballard went all in with his roster because he and Shane concluded AR was ready to take firm control and he could get them to the playoffs.  They both missed on that front.  Now it’s up to a backup quarterback again in year two with AR and to try and save the season.  AR has a big hill to climb and get over with the coach, GM and team.  I’m very skeptical he can do it.  And in the NFL time is of the essence.  As I’ve said I’m ready to bring in a vet and try to win now.   So much depends on where we finish and what AR has shown them for the remainder of the season.  Long way to go.  Anything is possible this off-season.  Anybody’s guess.

[jvan1973]

9 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/q9XdKsGpkWakk4bY/

Man,   irsay should give him a bag to come help him

[Superman]

5 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I get what Ballard wants to do - draft very athletic/high upside guys and hope to coach them up. I just don't think it really works in practice, because of intangibles like coachability and ability to process.

 

Anyone can learn to repeat whatever coaches tell them, but if what they say and what the put on the field don't match something is obviously wrong.

 

I think this is entirely a red herring. Drafted players miss all the time, but whenever fans identify a player as a "RAS pick," they attribute that failure only to Ballard's emphasis on athleticism.

 

In reality, the Colts hit on draft picks at about the same rate as every other team; they're actually in the upper half of the league, depending on what metrics/analysis you prefer. The players that we would consider misses aren't misses because of their RAS standing. They're just misses. For every one RAS standout that misses, there are probably two non RAS standouts that also miss (maybe more, depending on where you want to set the bar for "standout;" the higher you set it, the more non standout failures you'll have). 

 

And the same is true for Richardson. We can go back over the last decade and pick out all the failed QBs from the top of the first round. They fail for a variety of reasons. Trying to narrow the Richardson pick and the way his development is going down to just one factor is a flawed exercise.

[ColtAndOrioles]

The bottom line is if a coach like Jim Harbaugh, whom I have pleaded to the Colts to make their head coach for years.  But if he was the head coach?  We would have none of this drama.  He would put CB in his place AND would have coached AR in the 'right way'.  Whether that means he starts and plays under control, or he doesn't start.

 

Period. End of story. 

 

Sadly we have a GM who is just trying to keep his job and a coach, hired by said GM, who seems completely out of his element   As in he was hyped up as a QB guru but who in reality isn't anything close to that. 

[Tsarquise]

First time I'm saying this. Ballard needs to be fired. 

 

Wish we had Bruce Arians in some capacity again. 

 

Absolutely crazy the Colts drafted him at 4. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

The same was said about Lamar Jackson.....remember polian said he should try and play another position not QB ???

 

Just because someone is uber athletic doesn't mean they can't play QB. 

Now I'm not saying AR will be or never will be  a quality QB in this league. I don't know.

 

He certainly has the athletic part going for him. BUT going against him is the lack of reps and experience coming out of college, thrust into the starting role right away, missing games due to injury and last but not least the lack of QB friendly plays  and coaching from Steinchen. If he's not acting like a professional on and off the field then it's on them to teach him on how to... you'd think the #4 overall pick would get the teaching he deserves. Sounds like he's a extremely young player lacking and the colts are failing him. 

 

On Arians, I didn't click link to read the story. 

Regarding bringing him back in some capacity, I remember when he was here Colt Fans wanted him replaced because he would call long pass plays that took extra time for the OL to pass block for and it was feared Luck would get killed waiting for the plays to develop.

Little did we know back then that snowboarding would also be a major factor in his health.

[John Hammonds]

Bottom line:  Bruce Ariens said, "I have a measure of hope for Bryce Young.  I have no hope for Anthony Richardson."

[Indeee]

I'm not sure why there any people in the Colts fanbase that is continuing to hang on the notion that Richardson is going to succeed at the NFL level enough to ever consistently lead a franchise to years of success. I cannot beat the consistency drum enough here. Those who continue to hang onto the AR notion are short sighted in this case. 

 

This has never been about giving him time to develop. That talking point is only utilized from the standpoint that he only had 13 starts in college and based on that it is true, however. if he would've had a full season or even 2 this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation as he would not have even been drafted in the first 4-5 rounds because he just isn't that good.

 

So, this notion that he only needs time and a better gameplan/coaching plan to adhere to his strengths is utter nonsense. His only true strength is throwing deep, and his secondary strength is running the ball. Unfortunately, he is susceptible to getting injured quite frequently when he runs. It has happened a few times now and even though he might go a couple games without getting banged up, it will most definitely happen again. What is not present is the intermediate/short game accuracy that ALL NFL QB's need whether playing from the pocket predominantly or not, that is consistently needed to succeed at this level and that is why AR will never be a franchise NFL QB. He just doesn't have it. 

 

Arians is right 100% 

 

If I would guess, the Colts already know this. I think the reason they sat him was to not allow anymore tape to be had on this guy as I would guess they will most definitely listen to offers in the off-season when QB needy teams are more desperate or willing to take that leap especially if the draft class coming out is not so favorable for QB's. Even though I wanted him traded at the deadline, Pat Kirwin was right when he said that doing that would net the Colts absolutely nothing as it would be viewed to the rest of the league as a total mistake, which it very well is, however you don't want the league to know that so they used the "we are going to let him sit and learn" approach but make no mistake, chances are they will move on next year as without much tape there will most certainly be a team/s that still think they can fix this guy and that is what the Colts need to bank on in order to gain something back. Chances are it won't be anywhere near the 4th pick they gave up drafting him but a second or a high third should not be out of the question.

 

-Peace

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

I'm not sure why there any people in the Colts fanbase that is continuing to hang on the notion that Richardson is going to succeed at the NFL level enough to ever consistently lead a franchise to years of success. I cannot beat the consistency drum enough here. Those who continue to hang onto the AR notion are short sighted in this case. 

 

This has never been about giving him time to develop. That talking point is only utilized from the standpoint that he only had 13 starts in college and based on that it is true, however. if he would've had a full season or even 2 this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation as he would not have even been drafted in the first 4-5 rounds because he just isn't that good.

 

So, this notion that he only needs time and a better gameplan/coaching plan to adhere to his strengths is utter nonsense. His only true strength is throwing deep, and his secondary strength is running the ball. Unfortunately, he is susceptible to getting injured quite frequently when he runs. It has happened a few times now and even though he might go a couple games without getting banged up, it will most definitely happen again. What is not present is the intermediate/short game accuracy that ALL NFL QB's need whether playing from the pocket predominantly or not, that is consistently needed to succeed at this level and that is why AR will never be a franchise NFL QB. He just doesn't have it. 

 

Arians is right 100% 

 

If I would guess, the Colts already know this. I think the reason they sat him was to not allow anymore tape to be had on this guy as I would guess they will most definitely listen to offers in the off-season when QB needy teams are more desperate or willing to take that leap especially if the draft class coming out is not so favorable for QB's. Even though I wanted him traded at the deadline, Pat Kirwin was right when he said that doing that would net the Colts absolutely nothing as it would be viewed to the rest of the league as a total mistake, which it very well is, however you don't want the league to know that so they used the "we are going to let him sit and learn" approach but make no mistake, chances are they will move on next year as without much tape there will most certainly be a team/s that still think they can fix this guy and that is what the Colts need to bank on in order to gain something back. Chances are it won't be anywhere near the 4th pick they gave up drafting him but a second or a high third should not be out of the question.

 

-Peace

 

 

Right on the money.

[Fat Clemenza]

On 11/6/2024 at 9:53 AM, jemack said:

Man, I wish he was our QB coach...

Not me. I think his “no risk-it no biscuit” system and all the seven step drops (behind a crap o-line) greatly contributed to Lucks early retirement.  

[Solid84]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think this is entirely a red herring. Drafted players miss all the time, but whenever fans identify a player as a "RAS pick," they attribute that failure only to Ballard's emphasis on athleticism.

 

In reality, the Colts hit on draft picks at about the same rate as every other team; they're actually in the upper half of the league, depending on what metrics/analysis you prefer. The players that we would consider misses aren't misses because of their RAS standing. They're just misses. For every one RAS standout that misses, there are probably two non RAS standouts that also miss (maybe more, depending on where you want to set the bar for "standout;" the higher you set it, the more non standout failures you'll have). 

 

And the same is true for Richardson. We can go back over the last decade and pick out all the failed QBs from the top of the first round. They fail for a variety of reasons. Trying to narrow the Richardson pick and the way his development is going down to just one factor is a flawed exercise.

True, but I still think the most important abilities for players to have are coachability and the ability to process. Everything else is secondary. 
 

Production isn’t a clear indicator of this of course, because why are they producing? Are they just running faster, jumping higher, “insert X physical trait” than the other players? Or, is it how they take to coaching and how good they are at reading what’s happening on the field - football acumen. 
 

Doesn’t matter how fast they run or how long their arms are if they take the wrong angles or run the wrong route. 
 

I just think Ballard’s focus is the in the wrong place. Sure, if the traitsy guys pan out their ceiling may be higher, but as you said they haven’t done so more than for any other GM. 
 

Much like his approach to freee agency I think he willfully “discards” players as prospects for the team. With the draft it’s just because they don’t meet certain measurables. 

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

True, but I still think the most important abilities for players to have are coachability and the ability to process. Everything else is secondary. 
 

Production isn’t a clear indicator of this of course, because why are they producing? Are they just running faster, jumping higher, “insert X physical trait” than the other players? Or, is it how they take to coaching and how good they are at reading what’s happening on the field - football acumen. 
 

Doesn’t matter how fast they run or how long their arms are if they take the wrong angles or run the wrong route. 
 

I just think Ballard’s focus is the in the wrong place. Sure, if the traitsy guys pan out their ceiling may be higher, but as you said they haven’t done so more than for any other GM. 
 

Much like his approach to freee agency I think he willfully “discards” players as prospects for the team. With the draft it’s just because they don’t meet certain measurables. 

It doesn't matter how coachable a player is or how fast he can process if he is show slow and not agile.   It works both ways. 

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It doesn't matter how coachable a player is or how fast he can process if he is show slow and not agile.   It works both ways. 

Sure, but speed and strength is something that can be improved with physical training. Explosiveness can be improved with physical training. 
 

If players just can’t process or don’t take to coaching it doesn’t matter how fast they are. 
 

Of course there are minimums for certain positions when it comes weight, speed, whatever. I just think Ballard is too focused on measurables. 
 

Example, I don’t think a cornerback not having 32” arms means he can’t be a good NFL player. I don’t think a DE not having a vertical of 35” means he can’t be trained to be more explosive. 

[Solid84]

24 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Sure, but speed and strength is something that can be improved with physical training. Explosiveness can be improved with physical training. 
 

If players just can’t process or don’t take to coaching it doesn’t matter how fast they are. 
 

Of course there are minimums for certain positions when it comes weight, speed, whatever. I just think Ballard is too focused on measurables. 
 

Example, I don’t think a cornerback not having 32” arms means he can’t be a good NFL player. I don’t think a DE not having a vertical of 35” means he can’t be trained to be more explosive. 

Current examples:

 

This offseason a lot of us were looking at draft prospects for the Colts. 
 

I remember DT Braden Fiske was the combine king AND he has decent tape. But, it was speculated he was irrelevant for us because “he has short arms”. Meanwhile he’s in contention for DROY. 
 

Again, it was speculated Safety could be high on our list. Kamren Kinchens had excellent college tape, but was disqualified because he wasn’t an atheltic freak. Now, in contention for DROY. 

[jemack]

43 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Not me. I think his “no risk-it no biscuit” system and all the seven step drops (behind a crap o-line) greatly contributed to Lucks early retirement.  

He was OC for 2012, 1 year. Christensen was QB coach. A crap OLine had nothing to do with Arians. He played the cards he was dealt. 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Current examples:

 

This offseason a lot of us were looking at draft prospects for the Colts. 
 

I remember DT Braden Fiske was the combine king AND he has decent tape. But, it was speculated he was irrelevant for us because “he has short arms”. Meanwhile he’s in contention for DROY. 
 

Afain, it was speculated Safety could be high on our list. Kamren Kinchens had excellent college tape, but was disquaæified because he wasn’t an atheltic freak. Now, in contention for DROY. 

 

You're working from the assumption that you know whether these players were on the Colts board. You're also assuming that the only reason a player doesn't make the Colts board is if he doesn't meet specific physical benchmarks. 

 

https://atozsports.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts-news/colts-2024-nfl-draft-met-with-dt-florida-state-braden-fiske/

The Colts actually met with Braden Fiske. Why do that if they've eliminated him for arm length? What if they didn't draft Fiske for the same reason they didn't draft Brian Thomas, Cooper DeJean, Edgerrin Cooper -- because the draft is a zero sum game where only one team gets to draft each prospect?

 

You're talking about the same front office that drafted Josh Downs. They have made several exceptions to the HWS preferences, including in recent years. Speculation and narrative often don't match reality, especially around here. 

[Colt.45]

Nothing about this whole thing makes sense. The young man isn't sure what he's working on???

 

wow. Yeah, Maybe trade the kid at the next opportunity if you have no idea how to grow a QB. This is perplexing stuff