Should Chris Ballard be fired?

[chickenMan]

Just now, RollerColt said:

A lot of people outside of Indiana hate Indiana. It's called Naptown for a reason unfortunately... 

I'm well aware of that, but you don't verbalize that. It's disrespectful and arrogant, which I think Stroud is both of those. Plus, if he would have hated playing here, would he have ever invested himself in the community like Manning and other Colts greats did? I think that's important, for big-name NFL players to invest themselves in the community around them.

 

I would rather be dead than play in Boston or California, but if I was a top-end NFL QB you would never catch me saying that.

[chickenMan]

2 minutes ago, KB said:

Honestly, I think he was just saying that to hype up his Houston crowd. Have you been to Houston? It not any better than Nap. Quality of people is even lower. Look how they treat lineman coming to help them.

I've been to the Houston airport for about 20 minutes between flights, so I wouldn't count that. But I've seen plenty of pictures and videos and it looks like a hot, dry Chicago to me.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A better way of putting this question would have been, after the season should he be fired. I asked it now though, because of the AR debacle and we aren't winning our division after last Sunday. It is still a overwhelming, yes, he should be.

If we finish with a losing record, I think he will just re-sign.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, chickenMan said:

I'm well aware of that, but you don't verbalize that. It's disrespectful and arrogant, which I think Stroud is both of those. Plus, if he would have hated playing here, would he have ever invested himself in the community like Manning and other Colts greats did? I think that's important, for big-name NFL players to invest themselves in the community around them.

 

I would rather be dead than play in Boston or California, but if I was a top-end NFL QB you would never catch me saying that.

Problem is, his success is fueling his talk. He can back it up and be as arrogant as he likes. He's the one 2-0 over us, leading the division, already has a title over us from last season, rookie records... On and on... 

 

We don't have the culture or team to shut him up apparently. 

 

Last time we did, it was Andrew Luck walking into that Houston stadium in front of the Bush Presidential family and handing them a playoff loss. 

 

We've been declawed kittens ever since. 

[BlackTiger]

7 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

There was a leaked conversation of him in a car saying he hated Indy and didn't want to play here.

Thats just rivalry talk, he played at ohio and went to our division rival in the nfl

 

Not many athletes would come out and say they want to go to Indiana either tbh.  Its a real problem for the Pacers, nfl  players tend to take what they can get but there wouldnt be many that picked Indiana if given a choice.

[chickenMan]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Problem is, his success is fueling his talk. He can back it up and be as arrogant as he likes. He's the one 2-0 over us, leading the division, already has a title over us from last season, rookie records... On and on... 

 

We don't have the culture or team to shut him up apparently. 

 

Last time we did, it was Andrew Luck walking into that Houston stadium in front of the Bush Presidential family and handing them a playoff loss. 

 

We've been declawed kittens ever since. 

He's definitely earned the right to brag, but the fact that he still does shows poor character to me, which is why I would never want him to play for us.

 

Mahomes has won 3 Super Bowls and is the face of the NFL and of the next mega sports dynasty, but you don't hear him talking nasty stuff about Denver. I think it's a difference in personality.

 

To be quite honest, I think it's partly because Stroud played at OSU. Talk about a school that constantly gets smoke blown up its butt.

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

Thats just rivalry talk, he played at ohio and went to our division rival in the nfl

 

Not many athletes would come out and say they want to go to Indiana either tbh.  Its a real problem for the Pacers, nfl  players tend to take what they can get but there wouldnt be many that picked Indiana if given a choice.

I know, and I get it, but my point is that I wouldn't want him to play for us because of that. It shows poor character to me.

[NFLfan]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I have zero interest in joining any lynch mob demanding Ballard be fired now.  

 

I read an article by Michael Silver on the Athletic yesterday. I think you know him. Silver used to write for Sports Illustrated many years ago. I'm not sure if he still does, but I used to read him and I respect him. He wrote that Ballard needed to go. He was very critical of Ballard.

 

Quote

The dream is over.

 

On some level, I think Irsay — a significantly more shrewd and football-savvy man than commonly portrayed — already knows this. Technically, Ballard still has personnel control in Indy, but the chances of him fulfilling the promise proclaimed by his owner are dwindling by the day.

 

Quote

Quite possibly, Ballard will be fired at the end of his eighth season as the Colts’ GM.

Quite frankly, it’s surprising it hasn’t already happened.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5884624/2024/10/30/nfl-gm-chris-ballard-colts-strategy?source=user-shared-article

[chickenMan]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

I read an article by Michael Silver on the Athletic yesterday. I think you know him. Silver used to write for Sports Illustrated many years ago. I'm not sure if he still does, but I used to read him and I respect him. He wrote that Ballard needed to go. He was very critical of Ballard.

The NFL is all about results, and if we're benching AR after 10 games for lack of results, how long do we let Ballard slide with no results? If I'm not mistaken, he has two playoff appearances and only one playoff win in his nearly 10 years here. That's pretty weak.

[BlackTiger]

2 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

It shows poor character to me.

 

Lots of people dont like Indiana tbh, pretty common in the NBA.  That wasnt a quote meant for people to actually hear.  I know he said hes embracing the colts texans rivalry

[NFLfan]

2 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

The NFL is all about results, and if we're benching AR after 10 games for lack of results, how long do we let Ballard slide with no results? If I'm not mistaken, he has two playoff appearances and only one playoff win in his nearly 10 years here. That's pretty weak.

 

I hear you.

 

Michael Silver was not holding back:

 

Quote

Ballard, with one victory in two playoff appearances — and zero division titles — hasn’t done enough to justify his sustained employment. However, there is one superlative he’s worthy of: Most Overrated General Manager of the 21st Century.

 

[RollerColt]

15 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

He's definitely earned the right to brag, but the fact that he still does shows poor character to me, which is why I would never want him to play for us.

 

Mahomes has won 3 Super Bowls and is the face of the NFL and of the next mega sports dynasty, but you don't hear him talking nasty stuff about Denver. I think it's a difference in personality.

 

To be quite honest, I think it's partly because Stroud played at OSU. Talk about a school that constantly gets smoke blown up its butt.

I know, and I get it, but my point is that I wouldn't want him to play for us because of that. It shows poor character to me.

Not sure about Denver, but he and the rest of Kansas City absolutely trash Cincinnati. 

 

To be fair, Cincinnati probably deserves it. Most trash talky fanbase out there with nothing to back it up. 

 

But yeah, I understand your position. I will always refuse to put "the" in front of Ohio State. I'm not even a Michigan fan or grad. I just don't understand that type of narcissism... Then again I'm not from Ohio.  

[GoColts8818]

32 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

I'm glad we don't have Stroud. There was a leaked conversation of him in a car saying he hated Indy and didn't want to play here. Maybe it's my dumb pride, but I don't want a guy playing here that can't respect the city and the fans.

Maybe I am not remembering right but if I remember correctly he was saying he hated Indy and namely Lucas Oil Stadium because they lost a big game there in college more than he truly hated the city.

[John Hammonds]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thank you.   Sincerely, I appreciate you seeing my comments clearly.   I’m not trying to overthink this.  And while I’m as big of a Ballard supporter as there is here,  at some point decisions have to be made.  I think these decisions can wait until the off-season.  

UPDATE - I've been thinking about this for a bit.  I think Ballard's job is very much on the line here.

Consider:  Sam Ehlinger will not be back.  He's done nothing over 4 years besides throw during preseason.  Also, Flacco will be 40 years old, and we only signed him on for a 1 year deal anyway.  By plan, Richardson was supposed to be the only quarterback returning next year.  All of our eggs are in this one basket.  Now, what happens if we don't bring Richardson back either?  What happens if next year we have a completely new quarterback room.  And who will they be?  And how will they be acquired.  The possibility is staggering.  I think if that happens, Ballard will be gone.  Regardless of how we finish or if we went to the playoffs.  I think the stakes of this thing is off the charts.  And somehow, I think Ballard knows this.  I'm gonna bet that we'll see Richardson on the field again before the season is over.  Probably the game after the bye week.  There are jobs on the line.  And AR has to come through for them.  (Yes, I said "them".  They may all be in the same boat.)

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 

Evaluate at the end of the season, from the AR situation, to defensive scheme (stubbornness?) to overall roster construction.

 

My post was to highlight that this specific thread was started in an atmosphere where people want a pound of flesh from someone because their expectations for this season have been shattered.  Well, that's not really the fault of anybody except those who convinced themselves that AR would develop into a very good starting QB in one season AT THE SAME TIME we would be winning the division.......despite him never getting the full development last season because of the injury.  

 

So I'm not piling on along with the mob at this time.  I've been critical of Ballard's roster forever, and frankly, this season is the best offensive roster since he's been here (outside of QB, but Flacco isn't much worse than any others in the years he was praised as a good GM).  Odd time to fire him now, but we'll see come the offseason.

 

I'm not going to prognosticate on the future of AR.  I'm not disagreeing with yours, or your view of history.  There is something with his attitude that gives me the Soft Diva vibe, and that's not going to go over well with the players blocking for him, among others.  A diva at the WR position can work.  It can't work as a QB because of the leadership role.  If that truly is his personality, then this benching might be a sign they are moving on.  (or give him the rest of the season to figure that part out).  That's not a prognostication but a speculation/possibility.  

 

AR might not repeat history because he came into the NFL as a unicorn considering what resume he had and where he was drafted, so he might be one of those outliers in the data universe and history might not be a good predictor.

 

Shane has a 6 year contract and no way would a bust at QB in his first attempt to draft one be a reason to fire him.  IMO, he should not be fired for not being able to turn a lemon into lemonade, especially if the lemon has an inhibiting diva issue.  He's safe, IMO, not so much Ballard or any other FO member or defensive coach.  I think it is likely/possible that Irsay builds a FO and staff around Shane, so your other prognostication of Shane "choosing his GM from Philly" actually looks like a reasonable path now.  

Thanks. If they do move on from everyone. I want Vrabel.

[bluephantom87]

Should've been gone based on longevity vs results or lack of.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I read an article by Michael Silver on the Athletic yesterday. I think you know him. Silver used to write for Sports Illustrated many years ago. I'm not sure if he still does, but I used to read him and I respect him. He wrote that Ballard needed to go. He was very critical of Ballard.

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5884624/2024/10/30/nfl-gm-chris-ballard-colts-strategy?source=user-shared-article

As long as it’s at the end of the season, and Irsay approves, I can live with it.   
 

A note for those who will be happy with that outcome.  I believe the Ballard replacement comes from in-house.   Either Dodds or Brown.   I think Irsay and Steichen would prefer continuity.  

[KB]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As long as it’s at the end of the season, and Irsay approves, I can live with it.   
 

A note for those who will be happy with that outcome.  I believe the Ballard replacement comes from in-house.   Either Dodds or Brown.   I think Irsay and Steichen would prefer continuity.  

I agree the next one is in house. Especially if it's this offseason. They would be able to keep the scout team in tact most likely.

[indyagent17]

You should’ve put an option fired after the season because some people think should be fired right now. I think you get a much better read the people that want him gone after the season.

[stitches]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As long as it’s at the end of the season, and Irsay approves, I can live with it.   
 

A note for those who will be happy with that outcome.  I believe the Ballard replacement comes from in-house.   Either Dodds or Brown.   I think Irsay and Steichen would prefer continuity.  

That would be another cop out and another shocking decision. Luckily enough, I don't think this almost ever happens. If you are not happy with the way the franchise is going, the answer is almost never to replace the guy at the top with someone else from the same building with similar views and similar processes. 

 

If Irsay wants continuity, I would rather he just continue with Ballard. Until he gets sick of him and everything that reminds him of him and actually decides to make a real change. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

UPDATE - I've been thinking about this for a bit.  I think Ballard's job is very much on the line here.

Consider:  Sam Ehlinger will not be back.  He's done nothing over 4 years besides throw during preseason.  Also, Flacco will be 40 years old, and we only signed him on for a 1 year deal anyway.  By plan, Richardson was supposed to be the only quarterback returning next year.  All of our eggs are in this one basket.  Now, what happens if we don't bring Richardson back either?  What happens if next year we have a completely new quarterback room.  And who will they be?  And how will they be acquired.  The possibility is staggering.  I think if that happens, Ballard will be gone.  Regardless of how we finish or if we went to the playoffs.  I think the stakes of this thing is off the charts.  And somehow, I think Ballard knows this.  I'm gonna bet that we'll see Richardson on the field again before the season is over.  Probably the game after the bye week.  There are jobs on the line.  And AR has to come through for them.  (Yes, I said "them".  They may all be in the same boat.)

John….   Please forgive me.   You know I’m a longtime John Hammond fan.  But I think you’ve way WAY over thought this.  
 

1.   Richardson returns.  
 

2.   The backup will either be Flacco or someone else like Minshew.   Look at the quality of the backups the Colts have signed Steichen first two years.  Minshew, now Flacco.  Steichen WILL find a backup He likes.   
 

3.   QB3 will be another FA if Sam is not brought back.  
 

In short, the Colts are NOT in any trouble figuring out the Colts QB room in 2025.   If you don’t believe in Ballard, then believe in Steichen.  He’s got the eye for QB talent.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

That would be another cop out and another shocking decision. Luckily enough, I don't think this almost ever happens. If you are not happy with the way the franchise is going, the answer is almost never to replace the guy at the top with someone else from the same building with similar views and similar processes. 

I assume you noticed I didn’t respond to your post yesterday.   I’m reluctant to respond here.   But I thought I owed you something.   
 

Im sorry to say that our viewpoints rarely have common ground.  We see things very very differently.  Sometimes almost the opposite.  This is one of those times.  
 

So in the interest of less knocking of heads, I often choose not to respond.  sorry I can’t do better. 

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As long as it’s at the end of the season, and Irsay approves, I can live with it.   
 

A note for those who will be happy with that outcome.  I believe the Ballard replacement comes from in-house.   Either Dodds or Brown.   I think Irsay and Steichen would prefer continuity.  

 

This is going to be unpopular, and it's unconventional, but I have no problem with changing the GM before the end of the season. Not specific to the Colts, but in general. 

 

We judge coaches based on what happens during the season. The season for GMs is basically January to June. So switching GMs in January is like switching coaches at the start of training camp. He has to work with a staff that isn't his, evaluate his roster, make coaching decisions, prepare for free agency, and run the draft, with four months prep.

 

I'm not banging the table for Ballard to be fired. I don't even lay all the blame for how things have gone at his feet. But I think the Colts need a major reset, and everyone needs to go. Continuity has no value in this situation. I think the entire operation is flawed.

 

And if they're going to clean house -- and I'm not sure they will -- I don't see any reason to wait. There's a competitive advantage to bringing in a new GM right now. He'll get to evaluate the entire operation up close during the season, make his decisions about the coaching staff (I've lost all faith in Steichen as a leader, but that's JMO), get a strong gauge on the roster, and prepare for his real season -- which starts in January. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is going to be unpopular, and it's unconventional, but I have no problem with changing the GM before the end of the season. Not specific to the Colts, but in general. 

 

We judge coaches based on what happens during the season. The season for GMs is basically January to June. So switching GMs in January is like switching coaches at the start of training camp. He has to work with a staff that isn't his, evaluate his roster, make coaching decisions, prepare for free agency, and run the draft, with four months prep.

 

I'm not banging the table for Ballard to be fired. I don't even lay all the blame for how things have gone at his feet. But I think the Colts need a major reset, and everyone needs to go. Continuity has no value in this situation. I think the entire operation is flawed.

 

And if they're going to clean house -- and I'm not sure they will -- I don't see any reason to wait. There's a competitive advantage to bringing in a new GM right now. He'll get to evaluate the entire operation up close during the season, make his decisions about the coaching staff (I've lost all faith in Steichen as a leader, but that's JMO), get a strong gauge on the roster, and prepare for his real season -- which starts in January. 

I’m very sorry to say there’s very little I agree with here, and that doesn’t happen very often for us.  

So I’ll respond like this.   I think Steichen would get strong input in hiring the new GM he has to work with and in-season there’s no time for Steichen to be interviewing the new GM.    
 

And,  if hired in season, the new GM has to LEARN the team.   As opposed to Dodd or Brown who already KNOW this team.  Plus, a new GM from outside, will likely want to blow up the organization.   You want that.  You believe it’s needed.   I don’t.   And when the new GM makes changes, the Colts will lose a LOT of talent in the organization.  I think that would be very unhelpful.  

I’m sorry our views are so far apart on this one.  

[stitches]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I assume you noticed I didn’t respond to your post yesterday.   I’m reluctant to respond here.   But I thought I owed you something.   
 

Im sorry to say that our viewpoints rarely have common ground.  We see things very very differently.  Sometimes almost the opposite.  This is one of those times.  
 

So in the interest of less knocking of heads, I often choose not to respond.  sorry I can’t do better. 

Which post? Did I have one directed at you? Last couple of days I've posted a lot with my frustration and infuriation with the way the Colts are handling this situation so I don't remember if anything in particular required your specific answer, but either way - no worries, you are not obliged to reply to any post really... 

 

I think you have some very unorthodox views on this whole Ballard thing - 1. that he would resign rather than be fired(does this EVER happen nowadays?) or 2. that he will be succeeded by one of his seconds after he's gone(another thing that almost never happens, especially when the ousting was because of unsatisfactory results)... but that's the beauty of those forums. We can all have our own views and try to back them up with some reasoning. 

 

For example, until this point I had almost absent-mindedly assumed firing a GM mid-season would be really bad. But @Superman above is making a pretty good case for it not being that big of a problem and I had not considered that reasoning before, so now I'm wondering where I stand on that particular question. Good persuasive arguments can change my mind, even though right before moment they were made, I didn't think there would be a good argument going against my stance(partly the reason for mys tance). So yeah... the beauty of message boards. Yay 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Which post? Did I have one directed at you? Last couple of days I've posted a lot with my frustration and infuriation with the way the Colts are handling this situation so I don't remember if anything in particular required your specific answer, but either way - no worries, you are not obliged to reply to any post really... 

 

I think you have some very unorthodox views on this whole Ballard thing - 1. that he would resign rather than be fired(does this EVER happen nowadays?) or 2. that he will be succeeded by one of his seconds after he's gone(another thing that almost never happens, especially when the ousting was because of unsatisfactory results)... but that's the beauty of those forums. We can all have our own views and try to back them up with some reasoning. 

 

For example, until this point I had almost absent-mindedly assumed firing a GM mid-season would be really bad. But @Superman above is making a pretty good case for it not being that big of a problem and I had not considered that reasoning before, so now I'm wondering where I stand on that particular question. Good persuasive arguments can change my mind, even though right before moment they were made, I didn't think there would be a good argument going against my stance(partly the reason for mys tance). So yeah... the beauty of message boards. Yay 

There was almost nothing that I found persuasive about Superman’s argument.  He literally would like to blow the whole thing up.   If you agree with that — fine.   You two wouldn’t be alone.   But I absolutely don’t.   And I typically agree with Superman more than anyone.   
 

These are interesting times we live in. 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

There was almost nothing that I found persuasive about Superman’s argument.  He literally would like to blow the whole thing up.   If you agree with that — fine.   You two wouldn’t be alone.   But I absolutely don’t.   And I typically agree with Superman more than anyone.   
 

These are interesting times we live in. 

I want the whole thing blown up too. This organization needs a purge from top to bottom. From Irsay handing the team to his daughters to Ballard and Steichen, to ... most of the "leaders" of this team. 

 

My point about Superman making an argument I hadn't thought about was the one about firing the GM mid-season not being as bad as most people assume. I still am not 100% sure I agree, but his reasoning makes some sense and is making me think and reevaluate... 

[John Hammonds]

46 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

John….   Please forgive me.   You know I’m a longtime John Hammond fan.  But I think you’ve way WAY over thought this.  
 

1.   Richardson returns.  
 

2.   The backup will either be Flacco or someone else like Minshew.   Look at the quality of the backups the Colts have signed Steichen first two years.  Minshew, now Flacco.  Steichen WILL find a backup He likes.   
 

3.   QB3 will be another FA if Sam is not brought back.  
 

In short, the Colts are NOT in any trouble figuring out the Colts QB room in 2025.   If you don’t believe in Ballard, then believe in Steichen.  He’s got the eye for QB talent.  

No insult taken!  We're both prognosticating.  And I don't need to go to war to prove somebody else's prediction wrong when it hasn't even happened yet.

I just think that if we are totally back to square one with the entire quarterback room, then it would probably cost Ballard his job.

I could be wrong.  No worries!

[Superman]

33 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m very sorry to say there’s very little I agree with here, and that doesn’t happen very often for us.  

So I’ll respond like this.   I think Steichen would get strong input in hiring the new GM he has to work with and in-season there’s no time for Steichen to be interviewing the new GM.    
 

And,  if hired in season, the new GM has to LEARN the team.   As opposed to Dodd or Brown who already KNOW this team.  Plus, a new GM from outside, will likely want to blow up the organization.   You want that.  You believe it’s needed.   I don’t.   And when the new GM makes changes, the Colts will lose a LOT of talent in the organization.  I think that would be very unhelpful.  

I’m sorry our views are so far apart on this one.  

 

I don't mind our views being different. 

 

Let me ask you this. What are we salvaging by not blowing up the operation? You mentioned losing talent. Steichen? Anyone else? Anything else?

 

Also, please keep in mind what you know about me. I'm not anti-Ballard. I'm not a 'change for the sake of change,' 'fire the coach, get rid of that player' kind of person. 

[Jz0204945]

On 10/30/2024 at 10:40 AM, John Hammonds said:

Not yet.  We'll see what he does with this situation, and how it turns out.  I'm sure that this kind of combination of bad play and immaturity was always built into the risk factors when he was drafted.  John Lynch wasn't fired at San Francisco because the Trey Lance pick went bust.  He recognized it, dealt with it, and moved on.  Ballard may have to do the same.  We'll see what he does.

I know how it will turn out since it always turns out the same way.

[NewColtsFan]

56 minutes ago, stitches said:

I want the whole thing blown up too. This organization needs a purge from top to bottom. From Irsay handing the team to his daughters to Ballard and Steichen, to ... most of the "leaders" of this team. 

 

My point about Superman making an argument I hadn't thought about was the one about firing the GM mid-season not being as bad as most people assume. I still am not 100% sure I agree, but his reasoning makes some sense and is making me think and reevaluate... 

 

You don’t want Irsay to hand the team to his daughters?    Huh?  
 

I believe that only happens when Irsay dies or is incapacitated.   If not the daughters, then who?   
 

[#12.]

Here's the only way I would consider Dodds.  If it were known in the front office and organization that he was at odds with Ballard on many things, if it were known, for example, he did not want Richardson, wanted to trade up for Stroud, I would consider him.  I would interview him.  Maybe he was at odds with Ballard on crap picks like Banogu and others.  Perhaps he wanted to be more aggressive overall.  Only people in the front office and organization would know those things.

 

In the end, I'm guessing someone with a connection to Steichen or someone with a Colt connection Irsay is comfortable with will get the job.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

43 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't mind our views being different. 

 

Let me ask you this. What are we salvaging by not blowing up the operation? You mentioned losing talent. Steichen? Anyone else? Anything else?

 

Also, please keep in mind what you know about me. I'm not anti-Ballard. I'm not a 'change for the sake of change,' 'fire the coach, get rid of that player' kind of person. 

Blowing up the operation means loss of institutional knowledge.  It means the loss of good front office people,  good staff people, and good players.   I want no part of that.  And if Steichen isn’t helping in the selection of the new GM, then it means the eventual loss of the HC and staff, which I happen to like.  
 

Didn’t Steichen do a good job last year?   You’re not happy with his performance this year — fine, that’s your view.  But a new GM not picked in part by Steichen, could very well not retain Steichen and his staff soon enough.   
 

I personally don’t want any part of that.   And more important, it would be my hunch that neither would Irsay.  I don’t want a 2-3 year rebuild.  I want continuity.  I’d be looking for a quicker rebuild which I think Dodd or Brown could do better.  
 

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

You delusional  wanna be GMs that want to start from scratch should change your allegiance to the Browns or Panthers . You'd be happier, they blow it up every 2 years or so and are always shopping for GMs.

[stitches]

52 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You don’t want Irsay to hand the team to his daughters?    Huh?  
 

I believe that only happens when Irsay dies or is incapacitated.   If not the daughters, then who?   
 

I do, that's what I meant - I want Irsay to hand the team to his daughters. Maybe I didn't express myself well.. 

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Blowing up the operation means loss of institutional knowledge.  It means the loss of good front office people,  good staff people, and good players.   I want no part of that.  And if Steichen isn’t helping in the selection of the new GM, then it means the eventual loss of the HC and staff, which I happen to like.  
 

Didn’t Steichen do a good job last year?   You’re not happy with his performance this year — fine, that’s your view.  But a new GM not picked in part by Steichen, could very well not retain Steichen and his staff soon enough.   
 

I personally don’t want any part of that.   And more important, it would be my hunch that neither would Irsay.  I don’t want a 2-3 year rebuild.  I want continuity.  I’d be looking for a quicker rebuild which I think Dodd or Brown could do better.  

 

Are we getting any advantage from this institutional knowledge right now? What payoff has there been from the good front office people and staff? I guess I just don't understand what you think we'd be losing that is necessary for eventual success. 

 

The Steichen thing is tough for me. Bottom line, I think he's blown it with Richardson, and I don't think he's done an effective job as a leader and a communicator, and those are the most important aspects of his job. With how badly I think he's blown it with Richardson, I don't trust him to develop another rookie QB.

 

Even if I was mostly favorable on Steichen, the real basis of my opinion is that I think there are deeply rooted issues with this program. I think drastic steps are needed to get to the bottom of it. It's probably not any one person's fault, and it's probably not fair to everyone involved, but we've done a different version of a half measure several times since 2016. New GM in 2017, new HC in 2018, interim HC in 2022, new HC in 2023... I think it's time for a clean sweep. And I think Irsay should hire someone else to oversee it -- that means a new chairman/president of Ops, to whom the new GM and HC both answer. That's how drastic I think the changes should be.

 

A quick rebuild in the name of continuity is what they've been trying to do all along. The only continuity we've achieved is continually mediocre seasons, continually not a contender, continually shuffling QBs. Continuity is little more than a baby blanket, particularly when it produces no meaningful results. I think it's time we stop coddling ourselves. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Are we getting any advantage from this institutional knowledge right now? What payoff has there been from the good front office people and staff? I guess I just don't understand what you think we'd be losing that is necessary for eventual success. 

 

The Steichen thing is tough for me. Bottom line, I think he's blown it with Richardson, and I don't think he's done an effective job as a leader and a communicator, and those are the most important aspects of his job. With how badly I think he's blown it with Richardson, I don't trust him to develop another rookie QB.

 

Even if I was mostly favorable on Steichen, the real basis of my opinion is that I think there are deeply rooted issues with this program. I think drastic steps are needed to get to the bottom of it. It's probably not any one person's fault, and it's probably not fair to everyone involved, but we've done a different version of a half measure several times since 2016. New GM in 2017, new HC in 2018, interim HC in 2022, new HC in 2023... I think it's time for a clean sweep. And I think Irsay should hire someone else to oversee it -- that means a new chairman/president of Ops, to whom the new GM and HC both answer. That's how drastic I think the changes should be.

 

A quick rebuild in the name of continuity is what they've been trying to do all along. The only continuity we've achieved is continually mediocre seasons, continually not a contender, continually shuffling QBs. Continuity is little more than a baby blanket, particularly when it produces no meaningful results. I think it's time we stop coddling ourselves. 

Im sorry…. Much more disagreement.  
 

And apologies…. Long response ahead.   And please correct me if I’ve mischaracterized your views.  It’s not deliberate.   
 

I believe you’ve been saying you’re not blaming all this on Ballard and he doesn’t need to be fired now.   Yet you’re ready to blow it up now and hire a new GM in-season.   

 

You seem to think things are so bad that we should blow the franchise up and start from scratch.  To me, you seem to infer that things couldn’t get much worse.   And my simple response is….     Yes.  They.   Can.   
 

With all our problems, and I don’t deny we have problems,  I think you’re way WAY overstating your case.   The Superman I’ve always known would counsel people here who over-react to any given loss or problem to not be a Prisoner of the Moment.    And from your posts that’s what I think you’re being.   Let’s not forget that for all our problems, the Colts, under Shane Steichen, are 4-4 this year after going 8-9 last year with mostly Gardner Minshew and a less than 100 percent JT.  
I think the idea that SS has blown it with AR is way overblown.   And I think 8-9 last year and 4-4 this year is a benefit from having continuity. 
 

I literally asked you if having Kelly, Smith,  Nelson, Pittman,  Buckner, Stewart and Franklin on the team was a good thing or not?    And you didn’t respond.   Do you really want to get rid of them?   Your rebuild is getting bigger and longer,  with no assurance that it would be successful.  
 

I’d want no part of having a clearance sale.  A slow, steady moving on from some of these guys — sure.   Their age calls for that.   But all of them?   No thank you. 
 

I’m genuinely sorry we can’t find some common ground.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[KB]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

I can see alot of positions being open in AFC south team this offseason. The Texans are the only safe spot I can think of.

 

Was Green the guard getting abused by Dayo last week? He was a first rounder?

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im sorry…. Much more disagreement.  
 

And apologies…. Long response ahead.   And please correct me if I’ve mischaracterized your views.  It’s not deliberate.   
 

I believe you’ve been saying you’re not blaming all this on Ballard and he doesn’t need to be fired now.   Yet you’re ready to blow it up now and hire a new GM in-season.   

 

To be clear, my point about replacing the GM was meant generally. I'm not saying the Colts should fire Chris Ballard today. But if they were going to fire him, I see no benefit to waiting until January. Waiting is a disadvantage, IMO.

 

And to your point about Steichen being consulted before another GM is hired, the only value I'd see in that is if Steichen is safe, and as you can tell, I don't think he should be safe.

 

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You seem to think things are so bad that we should blow the franchise up and start from scratch.  To me, you seem to infer that things couldn’t get much worse.   And my simple response is….     Yes.  They.   Can.

  

I think this is mischaracterization. A more accurate statement would be that I'm not so afraid of them getting worse that I'm willing to be placated by the steady but uninspiring treading water that we've been doing for so long. This is a risk/reward analysis, just like any major change would be.

 

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With all our problems, and I don’t deny we have problems,  I think you’re way WAY overstating your case.   The Superman I’ve always known would counsel people here who over-react to any given loss or problem to not be a Prisoner of the Moment.    And from your posts that’s what I think you’re being.   Let’s not forget that for all our problems, the Colts, under Shane Steichen, are 4-4 this year after going 8-9 last year with mostly Gardner Minshew and a less than 100 percent JT.  
I think the idea that SS has blown it with AR is way overblown.   And I think 8-9 last year and 4-4 this year is a benefit from having continuity. 

 

I will allow for the possibility that this is an overreaction on my part, sparked by a sense of exasperation with recent events. But look back over the last six years. Starting in 2019: 7-9, 11-5, 9-8, 4-12, 9-8. One playoff appearance. 

 

Now look at where we are now, halfway through this season: 4-4. On track for the same .500-ish result that we've been posting since Luck retired. And we still don't have an answer at QB, because (IMO) we're bungling the development of the guy we spent the #4 pick on.

 

This program is stuck. This is not continuity, this is wallowing. And the guy who is supposed to have his hand on the wheel to guide the team into the future literally says A) 'I can't speak for our team,' and B) 'I'll worry about the future later.' 
 

Quote

 

I literally asked you if having Kelly, Smith,  Nelson, Pittman,  Buckner, Stewart and Franklin on the team was a good thing or not?    And you didn’t respond.   Do you really want to get rid of them?   Your rebuild is getting bigger and longer,  with no assurance that it would be successful.  
 

I’d want no part of having a clearance sale.  A slow, steady moving on from some of these guys — sure.   Their age calls for that.   But all of them?   No thank you. 

 

 

This goes back to my earlier question: What benefit are we getting from having those players right now? Put this in the same category as "institutional knowledge," IMO. This core of players has not accomplished anything meaningful. In all likelihood, they won't accomplish anything meaningful here, because we still don't have a QB. (Flacco is a really good backup. He's never been a transcendent QB, and now he's 39. The bloom will fall from the rose, sooner or later. Probably sooner.)

 

It sounds you want to try to salvage some of this. I'm not pushing for a fire sale, in fact, that's a secondary consideration. I'm just saying that hanging on to this core in the name of continuity is not compelling to me. 

 

Nelson will be 29 in March. Buckner will be 31 in March. Grover just turned 31 in October. Franklin will be 29 in February (and I think his value is overestimated by Colts fans). Leaving off Kelly and Smith, as you stated you think they'll be gone soon, and I agree. If you want to make something happen while these guys are still a factor, it needs to be next year, at the latest. I don't think anything meaningful is happening with the Colts next year, unless Richardson becomes a star, and I'm not holding my breath at this point. 

 

So what are we holding on for? The earlier conversation was about leadership, and I don't think this group of players has proven to be strong in that area, either.
 

Familiarity breeds comfort, and mediocrity. I think it's time to break some eggs. 

 

Quote

I’m genuinely sorry we can’t find some common ground. 

 

I don't mind not being in agreement. As long as we understand and respect each other.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im sorry…. Much more disagreement.  
 

And apologies…. Long response ahead.   And please correct me if I’ve mischaracterized your views.  It’s not deliberate.   
 

I believe you’ve been saying you’re not blaming all this on Ballard and he doesn’t need to be fired now.   Yet you’re ready to blow it up now and hire a new GM in-season.   

 

You seem to think things are so bad that we should blow the franchise up and start from scratch.  To me, you seem to infer that things couldn’t get much worse.   And my simple response is….     Yes.  They.   Can.   
 

With all our problems, and I don’t deny we have problems,  I think you’re way WAY overstating your case.   The Superman I’ve always known would counsel people here who over-react to any given loss or problem to not be a Prisoner of the Moment.    And from your posts that’s what I think you’re being.   Let’s not forget that for all our problems, the Colts, under Shane Steichen, are 4-4 this year after going 8-9 last year with mostly Gardner Minshew and a less than 100 percent JT.  
I think the idea that SS has blown it with AR is way overblown.   And I think 8-9 last year and 4-4 this year is a benefit from having continuity. 
 

I literally asked you if having Kelly, Smith,  Nelson, Pittman,  Buckner, Stewart and Franklin on the team was a good thing or not?    And you didn’t respond.   Do you really want to get rid of them?   Your rebuild is getting bigger and longer,  with no assurance that it would be successful.  
 

I’d want no part of having a clearance sale.  A slow, steady moving on from some of these guys — sure.   Their age calls for that.   But all of them?   No thank you. 
 

I’m genuinely sorry we can’t find some common ground.   

We actually went 9-8 last year, let's not make anything worse than it is already (sarcasm).