Should Chris Ballard be fired?

[RollerColt]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This was nearly three years ago. Two HCs ago, five starting QBs ago. And it's just as true now as it was then.

“We’re all in” -Jerry Jones

 

NFL owners everyone… NFL owners…

[AKB]

@NewColtsFan

 

time for you to join the discussion and say Ballard should be fired, like you did before the season when we were discussing what if AR fails. 

[NewColtsFan]

45 minutes ago, AKB said:

@NewColtsFan

 

time for you to join the discussion and say Ballard should be fired, like you did before the season when we were discussing what if AR fails. 

 I’m assuming….   I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven’t seen my post TODAY where I stated that Ballard will offer his resignation at the end of the season.   That’s where I am.   

Im not convinced that AR’s time with the Colts is up.   I expect him to play again this season.   Even if he doesn’t start, Steichen will likely create a package of plays just for AR for the games around the bye week. 
 

I have zero interest in joining any lynch mob demanding Ballard be fired now.  At the end of the season Irsay can figure out what he wants to do.  He can fire Ballard, or he can accept Ballards resignation, or he can keep him.   But I’ll leave that to Irsay, and be fine with the choice.  

[John Hammonds]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 I’m assuming….   I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven’t seen my post TODAY where I stated that Ballard will offer his resignation at the end of the season.   That’s where I am.   

Im not convinced that AR’s time with the Colts is up.   I expect him to play again this season.   Even if he doesn’t start, Steichen will likely create a package of plays just for AR for the games around the bye week. 
 

I have zero interest in joining any lynch mob demanding Ballard be fired now.  At the end of the season Irsay can figure out what he wants to do.  He can fire Ballard, or he can accept Ballards resignation, or he can keep him.   But I’ll leave that to Irsay, and be fine with the choice.  

I agree.  There's no reason to fire Ballard right now when we're 4-4 with winnable games coming up, and still have a chance to make the playoffs.  There's plenty of time to fire Ballard after the season is over -- if warranted.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree.  There's no reason to fire Ballard right now when we're 4-4 with winnable games coming up, and still have a chance to make the playoffs.  There's plenty of time to fire Ballard after the season is over -- if warranted.

Thank you.   Sincerely, I appreciate you seeing my comments clearly.   I’m not trying to overthink this.  And while I’m as big of a Ballard supporter as there is here,  at some point decisions have to be made.  I think these decisions can wait until the off-season.  

[RollerColt]

23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 I’m assuming….   I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven’t seen my post TODAY where I stated that Ballard will offer his resignation at the end of the season.   That’s where I am.   

Im not convinced that AR’s time with the Colts is up.   I expect him to play again this season.   Even if he doesn’t start, Steichen will likely create a package of plays just for AR for the games around the bye week. 
 

I have zero interest in joining any lynch mob demanding Ballard be fired now.  At the end of the season Irsay can figure out what he wants to do.  He can fire Ballard, or he can accept Ballards resignation, or he can keep him.   But I’ll leave that to Irsay, and be fine with the choice.  

This is the more logical and clear post. I agree. The main gauntlet of the season is ahead of us. 
 

If we are a true playoff caliber team, this is where we show it in the next 4 weeks. 

[#12.]

Ballard - obviously.  Strip the front office and scouting department to the bare walls.

 

Steichen?  If he's given an actual NFL level passer, he's shown he can do something.  Once Ballard is gone, I think he’ll also push for a more a more aggressive defense.  Steichen's in-game decision-making needs to improve, for sure 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thank you.   Sincerely, I appreciate you seeing my comments clearly.   I’m not trying to overthink this.  And while I’m as big of a Ballard supporter as there is here,  at some point decisions have to be made.  I think these decisions can wait until the off-season.  

Frankly, this benching should not be as big of a deal as it is.  The fans are the ones creating the noise, mainly by having gotten out over their skis in thinking that AR is the franchise guy before he was, and that he just had to go through the motions of him playing this season and he will develop as planned.  Now the fans are coming crashing down when they find out AR is just another developmental QB.... and nothing special. 

 

Its as if the fans expected AR to take the Colts into the Division title and playoffs AT THE SAME TIME he was developing.  Weird.  

 

Because they got over their skis with where they thought AR should be, the benching now puts AR as some sort of complete bust that should never have been drafted.  When one extreme doesn't pan out, wrench back to the other extreme.  That's the fans' problem, not a FO problem.

 

Here's what I see:

 

I see a staff that started him out by wanting to play him into development, but now sees that AR can't handle it yet, and its hurting the team and the locker room to keep trying.  The staff is going back to the point they should have started with in the first place,  having AR learn the position of NFL QB while the veteran leads the rest of the team.  

 

We are at now the place we should have been at the beginning of the season.  Big deal.

 

Nobody should get fired because of this.  Assessment's should be made at the end of the season as always.  I suspect we'll move along like always, possibly getting another rookie QB as insurance against AR stagnating....like the Redskins did with RG111/Kirk Cousins.

 

This is not that big of a deal, IMO.  Its the ebb and flow of development.  Relying too much upon a developmental QB to be your savior is something the fans created.  Ballard and the staff did not do that.

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

3 simple choices. 

No

[BlackTiger]

I would say yes.  This is like the third or fourth time the team has been a big mess under CB's management lol,

 

They looked good when they had Andrew Luck and Philip Rivers but how much credit does CB deserve for either of them being good QBs?  Its little to none.

 

Chris builds 500 teams that feel directionless.

[Mikemccoy84]

I lean towards yes at the end of the year but I could also see them letting him have one more go at it going all in. Cause ultimately this team is a qb from being very good. If we had Burrow, Allen, Mahomes, Jackson or Stroud we probably are best team in the afc or at least the two seed

[crazycolt1]

No. It's easy for  disgruntled fans to say fire Ballard but then what?? 

Regardless of how anyone feels about him he is considered one of the best GMs in the league by those who are more informed than a disgruntled fan base wanting blood.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Frankly, this benching should not be as big of a deal as it is.  The fans are the ones creating the noise, mainly by having gotten out over their skis in thinking that AR is the franchise guy before he was, and that he just had to go through the motions of him playing this season and he will develop as planned.  Now the fans are coming crashing down when they find out AR is just another developmental QB.... and nothing special. 

 

Its as if the fans expected AR to take the Colts into the Division title and playoffs AT THE SAME TIME he was developing.  Weird.  

 

Because they got over their skis with where they thought AR should be, the benching now puts AR as some sort of complete bust that should never have been drafted.  When one extreme doesn't pan out, wrench back to the other extreme.  That's the fans' problem, not a FO problem.

 

Here's what I see:

 

I see a staff that started him out by wanting to play him into development, but now sees that AR can't handle it yet, and its hurting the team and the locker room to keep trying.  The staff is going back to the point they should have started with in the first place,  having AR learn the position of NFL QB while the veteran leads the rest of the team.  

 

We are at now the place we should have been at the beginning of the season.  Big deal.

 

Nobody should get fired because of this.  Assessment's should be made at the end of the season as always.  I suspect we'll move along like always, possibly getting another rookie QB as insurance against AR stagnating....like the Redskins did with RG111/Kirk Cousins.

 

This is not that big of a deal, IMO.  Its the ebb and flow of development.  Relying too much upon a developmental QB to be your savior is something the fans created.  Ballard and the staff did not do that.

However, history tells us that this never works out. This would probably be the one case if it worked out in NFL history.  The bigger issue is does Ballard and Shane survive this  If they end the season with AR on the bench? I don't know how Ballard makes it thru. Then u have a new GM who wants his own coach and as he should. Then, the new GM cuts AR and goes hunting for his franchise QB in the 2025 draft.  I don't see a scenario where they keep AR and bring in a 1st round qb to compete. Only so many reps and AR would lose out in the scenario before preseason.  Ballard and Shane maybe able to sell Irsay on giving him another year. However if it is true what seems to be leaking out. There appear to be huge issues with AR. Remember, Irsay wanted Wentz out of town. I don't see Irsay  signing on for another year of AR. I see the more likely scenario of a total blow-up from the FO to the cleaning lady, lol.

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

However, history tells us that this never works out. This would probably be the one case if it worked out in NFL history.  The bigger issue is does Ballard and Shane survive this  If they end the season with AR on the bench? I don't know how Ballard makes it thru. Then u have a new GM who wants his own coach and as he should. Then, the new GM cuts AR and goes hunting for his franchise QB in the 2025 draft.  I don't see a scenario where they keep AR and bring in a 1st round qb to compete. Only so many reps and AR would lose out in the scenario before preseason.  Ballard and Shane maybe able to sell Irsay on giving him another year. However if it is true what seems to be leaking out. There appear to be huge issues with AR. Remember, Irsay wanted Wentz out of town. I don't see Irsay  signing on for another year of AR. I see the more likely scenario of a total blow-up from the FO to the cleaning lady, lol.

What did the poor cleaning lady do?

[ColtAndOrioles]

He wanted to hire, and then got rejected by, Josh McDaniels. 

 

The worst coach I have ever seen. 

Shouldn't that be enough of a testament to his being let go????

[Moosejawcolt]

29 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What did the poor cleaning lady do?

Collateral damage,lol

[jvan1973]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

Collateral damage,lol

Damn.   

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

No. It's easy for  disgruntled fans to say fire Ballard but then what?? 

Regardless of how anyone feels about him he is considered one of the best GMs in the league by those who are more informed than a disgruntled fan base wanting blood.

Then what? How many QBs have fallen on the sword? This is 7th starting? How many HC's? How many division titles? 

Ultimately this is all on the owner, he bears the most blame.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Frankly, this benching should not be as big of a deal as it is.  The fans are the ones creating the noise, mainly by having gotten out over their skis in thinking that AR is the franchise guy before he was, and that he just had to go through the motions of him playing this season and he will develop as planned.  Now the fans are coming crashing down when they find out AR is just another developmental QB.... and nothing special. 

 

Its as if the fans expected AR to take the Colts into the Division title and playoffs AT THE SAME TIME he was developing.  Weird.  

 

Because they got over their skis with where they thought AR should be, the benching now puts AR as some sort of complete bust that should never have been drafted.  When one extreme doesn't pan out, wrench back to the other extreme.  That's the fans' problem, not a FO problem.

 

Here's what I see:

 

I see a staff that started him out by wanting to play him into development, but now sees that AR can't handle it yet, and its hurting the team and the locker room to keep trying.  The staff is going back to the point they should have started with in the first place,  having AR learn the position of NFL QB while the veteran leads the rest of the team.  

 

We are at now the place we should have been at the beginning of the season.  Big deal.

 

Nobody should get fired because of this.  Assessment's should be made at the end of the season as always.  I suspect we'll move along like always, possibly getting another rookie QB as insurance against AR stagnating....like the Redskins did with RG111/Kirk Cousins.

 

This is not that big of a deal, IMO.  Its the ebb and flow of development.  Relying too much upon a developmental QB to be your savior is something the fans created.  Ballard and the staff did not do that.

I was thinking about the AR situation and if it fails. It is really outlines why Ballard has failed at building a competive NFL. Rather than rely on game film and how that player as performed at the college level over  say a three year period. He always leaned towards RAS and what they player could become. He was always projecting these athletes become unicorns at their positions.   AR really is kind of the a microcosm for the whole way Ballard has drafted over the years and it's all kind of come crashing down.

[Dewey5]

Yes & I think if it really was Irsay's call to bench AR then Ballard is done

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Dewey5 said:

Yes & I think if it really was Irsay's call to bench AR then Ballard is done

Funny but I actually miss Grigson lol

[AwesomeAustin]

The entire organization should be on notice. If they don’t understand they better turn this season in the right direction, I don’t know what will convince them. I have the feeling they all understand their jobs are on the line over the next 9 games.  I hope they make the best of this opportunity.  If not we will see some major changes this offseason. 

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Then what? How many QBs have fallen on the sword? This is 7th starting? How many HC's? How many division titles? 

Ultimately this is all on the owner, he bears the most blame.

 

So what is it that you want? A new owner? That ain't happening.  

A new GM? That ain't happening either. 

A new head coach? Not a chance as long as Irsay is the owner.  

There is nothing you, me nor anyone else can do but complain.  That makes no difference one way or another. 

 

[SR711]

I voted yes, Ballard should be fired.  Frankly, he should've been canned after the dismal 2022 campaign.  

 

However, at the end of the day, its Jim Irsay's team and obviously he is going to run his team as he sees fit.  

 

Which brings me to my feeling/prediction that Ballard will NOT be fired.  Just my theory here: one of the main reasons that I think Jim Irsay likes Chirs Ballard, heaps a ton of undeserved platitudes his way, gives him a ton of rope is because Ballard is more than willing to step aside and let Jim "intervene/offer his two cents" in personnel issues as he wants and probably doesn't give much pushback as Irsay might get from more accomplished, seasoned GMs (e.g. Bill Polian).  My frank opinion is that this team has run into its biggest problems over the past few years because the football people in the building haven't been left alone to solely make the football decisions (especially the really big ones involving QB, etc) over the past few years.  At the same time, Ballard is very polished, good with the media, can (for the most part) get value out of the draft.  As a result, I think Ballard's seat is perhaps not as hot as we would like to believe.  

 

 

[stitches]

11 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

This team is what you get when your drafting prowess revolves RAS scores 

I still don't think this is the big problem of this team. Drafting athletic players in a league where athleticism confers competitive advantage is NOT all that unusual or detrimental. I might actually put it as a positive. In general, the draft has been one of the strong suits of Ballard. 

 

But there are series of other problems that IMO make continuing this project unthinkable and projecting future success with some of the strategies and philosophy employed by Ballard very tenuous.

[Yoshinator]

About time everyone gets on the same page. A handful of us were saying this years ago. Honestly he should have been fired a couple years ago and at the end of last season. He's a very good scout that has no idea how to run an NFL team. Just like there are plenty of Coordinators who become coaches and are way in over their heads. 

 

Irsay needs to get rid of this clown as soon as possible. I would tell him to either buy or sell at the deadline. You go with a direction here based on how you feel. If you stand pat, I'm firing you. The lack of aggressiveness while other teams have rebuilt in the time Ballard has been here is sickening. Ballard only took AR because his face lit up like a Christmas tree when he saw the perfect RAS score. Playing like a Madden GM doesn't work in the NFL. 

 

Let Steichen choose the GM. It's unorthodox, but in this case, I don't mind doing something out of the ordinary. I would personally choose Mike Borgonzi (the Chiefs assistant GM) or Alec Halaby (the Eagles assistant GM). Don't tell me these guys are the same as what Ballard is, that's lazy and like a non-Colt fan saying Ballard is like Grigson.

 

Ballard has done so many dumb things in his tenure, it's hard to count. However, the worst thing about it is not the mistakes themselves, but his stubbornness and refusal to change. That's the biggest red flag of all and why Irsay needs to get rid of him immediately. Force him to change at the trade deadline. Make him buy or sell and not stand pat. If he refuses, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

 

[DavePSL]

I have zero confidence in any of the management or leadership that they know what their doing , especially with a young QB. AR made some serious mistakes that hurts a lockeroom but this team as a whole let him down too. That can't be overlooked. As far as Ballard, his record speaks for itself and this team always has drama surrounding it which tells me Ballard's culture or lack of, is terrible. Most GM's never last this long unless they are winning so he should have been gone years ago. How much of this is Irsay? Fair question!

[ColtStrong2013]

21 hours ago, RollerColt said:

The 49ers are what a winning franchise looks like. Same with the Steelers. They're just always well built and well run machines in the NFL. 

 

Perhaps that is an ownership trait... 

[ColtStrong2013]

20 minutes ago, DavePSL said:

How much of this is Irsay?

 

That's who gets the most of my blame. This franchise has had two generational qb's and a single Lombardi to show for it. Without Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, what would the 21st century Colts football look like? I think we are seeing it. Count our blessings, I suppose. Seems like we are going to be stuck in this cycle for some time, regardless who is at the helm. 

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Perhaps that is an ownership trait... 

I'm really starting to think so. 

[ColtStrong2013]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I'm really starting to think so. 

 

I mean, the red flags are there. Everyone wonders why he has kept Ballard this long, but it never dawns on them that CB could be the person protecting Irsay the most? If he fires Ballard, and the next GM is a total basket case/ the team falls apart leading to a quick exit, anyone with a brain will question Irsay as an owner. How could you blame Ballard? He hasn't mismanaged the team from a capspace standpoint. He's brought talented players in plenty of spots to be competitive. It "should" be a relatively attractive place for a new GM. UNLESS, it's well known within the NFL circle that Jim Irsay meddles and causes chaos, which I think is very plausible. And it would make a whole lot of sense why Irsay keeps Ballard. 

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I mean, the red flags are there. Everyone wonders why he has kept Ballard this long, but it never dawns on them that CB could be the person protecting Irsay the most? If he fires Ballard, and the next GM is a total basket case/ the team falls apart leading to a quick exit, anyone with a brain will question Irsay as an owner. How could you blame Ballard? He hasn't mismanaged the team from a capspace standpoint. He's brought talented players in plenty of spots to be competitive. It "should" be a relatively attractive place for a new GM. UNLESS, it's well known within the NFL circle that Jim Irsay meddles and causes chaos, which I think is very plausible. And it would make a whole lot of sense why Irsay keeps Ballard. 

Honestly it's plausible. 2021 and 2022 showed a very bad side of the organization. 

 

It could very well be a lot of players are avoiding coming here with such dysfunction. 

 

And then add to the fact that Irsay's health is just not good... I really think he needs to promote his daughter to President of Operations and let her run the team. He can still have the title of owner, and can still do all the pageantry stuff like the Ring of Honor and so on.  

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

However, history tells us that this never works out. This would probably be the one case if it worked out in NFL history.  The bigger issue is does Ballard and Shane survive this  If they end the season with AR on the bench? I don't know how Ballard makes it thru. Then u have a new GM who wants his own coach and as he should. Then, the new GM cuts AR and goes hunting for his franchise QB in the 2025 draft.  I don't see a scenario where they keep AR and bring in a 1st round qb to compete. Only so many reps and AR would lose out in the scenario before preseason.  Ballard and Shane maybe able to sell Irsay on giving him another year. However if it is true what seems to be leaking out. There appear to be huge issues with AR. Remember, Irsay wanted Wentz out of town. I don't see Irsay  signing on for another year of AR. I see the more likely scenario of a total blow-up from the FO to the cleaning lady, lol.

 

12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I was thinking about the AR situation and if it fails. It is really outlines why Ballard has failed at building a competive NFL. Rather than rely on game film and how that player as performed at the college level over  say a three year period. He always leaned towards RAS and what they player could become. He was always projecting these athletes become unicorns at their positions.   AR really is kind of the a microcosm for the whole way Ballard has drafted over the years and it's all kind of come crashing down.

Evaluate at the end of the season, from the AR situation, to defensive scheme (stubbornness?) to overall roster construction.

 

My post was to highlight that this specific thread was started in an atmosphere where people want a pound of flesh from someone because their expectations for this season have been shattered.  Well, that's not really the fault of anybody except those who convinced themselves that AR would develop into a very good starting QB in one season AT THE SAME TIME we would be winning the division.......despite him never getting the full development last season because of the injury.  

 

So I'm not piling on along with the mob at this time.  I've been critical of Ballard's roster forever, and frankly, this season is the best offensive roster since he's been here (outside of QB, but Flacco isn't much worse than any others in the years he was praised as a good GM).  Odd time to fire him now, but we'll see come the offseason.

 

I'm not going to prognosticate on the future of AR.  I'm not disagreeing with yours, or your view of history.  There is something with his attitude that gives me the Soft Diva vibe, and that's not going to go over well with the players blocking for him, among others.  A diva at the WR position can work.  It can't work as a QB because of the leadership role.  If that truly is his personality, then this benching might be a sign they are moving on.  (or give him the rest of the season to figure that part out).  That's not a prognostication but a speculation/possibility.  

 

AR might not repeat history because he came into the NFL as a unicorn considering what resume he had and where he was drafted, so he might be one of those outliers in the data universe and history might not be a good predictor.

 

Shane has a 6 year contract and no way would a bust at QB in his first attempt to draft one be a reason to fire him.  IMO, he should not be fired for not being able to turn a lemon into lemonade, especially if the lemon has an inhibiting diva issue.  He's safe, IMO, not so much Ballard or any other FO member or defensive coach.  I think it is likely/possible that Irsay builds a FO and staff around Shane, so your other prognostication of Shane "choosing his GM from Philly" actually looks like a reasonable path now.  

[ColtStrong2013]

17 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Honestly it's plausible. 2021 and 2022 showed a very bad side of the organization. 

 

It could very well be a lot of players are avoiding coming here with such dysfunction. 

 

And then add to the fact that Irsay's health is just not good... I really think he needs to promote his daughter to President of Operations and let her run the team. He can still have the title of owner, and can still do all the pageantry stuff like the Ring of Honor and so on.  

Nevermind the Pagano/Grigson fiasco. He “paired them at the hip” and then fired his GM the next offseason. I think the Grigson years were more dysfunctional than anyone will ever know, masked by a few winning seasons. 
 

i was at the Dolphins game for Dallas Clark’s ring of honor. In no way, should Jim Irsay be allowed a microphone in front of thousands of people. It was cringeworthy and everyone around me was embarrassed. But he owns the team and pushes Ballard and Steichen out in front of the media to distract and make it all seem normal. 

[ClaytonColt]

Nah. Maybe 8 or 10 more years of excuses and then we can really be sure that he is what he has shown us he is. Don't want to be too hasty do we?

[Colt.45]

11 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So what is it that you want? A new owner? That ain't happening.  

A new GM? That ain't happening either. 

A new head coach? Not a chance as long as Irsay is the owner.  

There is nothing you, me nor anyone else can do but complain.  That makes no difference one way or another. 

 

When you go down this path, you realize a few things. The central one is you're supporting something you have no control over. Emotionally, you pull away. Soon, you understand it aint worth the sweat.

 

At some point, enough people do that and that franchise is in trouble. This is what's been going on with the Colts for years now. I hear what you're saying. I asked those questions to probe thinking but I know where I'm at, been that way for years.

[2006Coltsbestever]

A better way of putting this question would have been, after the season should he be fired. I asked it now though, because of the AR debacle and we aren't winning our division after last Sunday. It is still a overwhelming, yes, he should be.

[chickenMan]

23 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I voted yes. I'm sorry. But there's been a common denominator in this QB mess regardless of who's on the coaching staff. 

 

We should've done a full rebuild with this team after 2022. Trade away players for picks, and then use those picks to move up to #1 in the draft and picked Stroud. 

 

Stroud was always the QB I wanted... And before Stroud, I wanted Jordan Love. 

 

Here we are...  

I'm glad we don't have Stroud. There was a leaked conversation of him in a car saying he hated Indy and didn't want to play here. Maybe it's my dumb pride, but I don't want a guy playing here that can't respect the city and the fans.

[RollerColt]

Just now, chickenMan said:

I'm glad we don't have Stroud. There was a leaked conversation of him in a car saying he hated Indy and didn't want to play here. Maybe it's my dumb pride, but I don't want a guy playing here that can't respect the city and the fans.

A lot of people outside of Indiana hate Indiana. It's called Naptown for a reason unfortunately... 

[KB]

3 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

I'm glad we don't have Stroud. There was a leaked conversation of him in a car saying he hated Indy and didn't want to play here. Maybe it's my dumb pride, but I don't want a guy playing here that can't respect the city and the fans.

Honestly, I think he was just saying that to hype up his Houston crowd. Have you been to Houston? It not any better than Nap. Quality of people is even lower. Look how they treat lineman coming to help them.